ghoul abuse
fish...@nerve.com
my terminal has way more than 25 lines
more than 43 lines
bet most don't have 100 row xterms.
Anyway, I wasn't "spoiled" to this, so I discovered on my own
that E-ngraving on a tombstone creates a Ghoul, an easy kill,
and an easy way to get pre-10th-level experience in a really short
number of turns. I thought of this not as an abuse, but more as
an exercise (benefits balanced by a frustratingly long time spent,
much like exercising strength by pusing the same boulder back and
forth along a corridor 32000 times.)
Then I started wondering, what if there is something in-game that
balances this? What if there is a chance of a more potent Z
coming out of the grave? What happens after the 120th Ghoul is
summoned? Or maybe there's a luck-- every time you do it?
Lately, characters of mine who have been lucky enough to start
with a grave on the first level or so, have attained level 7 or
8 before venturing further.
Abuse?
Nesta, killed by a ghoul.
--
% - a piece of food (elf corpse named Nesta)
StarChaser_Tyger
>Anyway, I wasn't "spoiled" to this, so I discovered on my own
>that E-ngraving on a tombstone creates a Ghoul,
You may have discovered it on your own, but it's been around for a
while.
>Then I started wondering, what if there is something in-game that
>balances this?
There is. It abuses your wisdom.
>Lately, characters of mine who have been lucky enough to start
>with a grave on the first level or so, have attained level 7 or
>8 before venturing further.
There is discussion as to whether this is an abuse or a feature...I'm
undecided, myself, but leaning toward abuse. On the other hand, there
IS a punishment built in...
--
Visit the Furry Artist InFURmation Page! Contact information, which artists
do and don't want their work posted. http://web.tampabay.rr.com/starchsr/
Address no longer munged for the inconvienence of spammers.
(Yes, this really is me.)
Dylan O'Donnell
> What's that, Lassie? <fish...@nerve.com> said,
>
> >Anyway, I wasn't "spoiled" to this, so I discovered on my own
> >that E-ngraving on a tombstone creates a Ghoul,
[...]
> There is discussion as to whether this is an abuse or a feature...I'm
> undecided, myself, but leaning toward abuse. On the other hand, there
> IS a punishment built in...
The DevTeam consider it a bug, however, that ghoul creation in this
manner is unlimited; <http://www.nethack.org/v331/spoiler.html>,
SC331-12, "fixed in next version". What restrictions they place on
it we can assume to be their final word on the subject, I'd think.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "For the sun will rise, and the moon will set, and you learn how to :
: settle for what you get. It will all go on, if we're here or not; :
: so who cares? So what?" -- Fred Ebb, "Cabaret" :
okbl...@my-deja.com
fish...@conservatory.com wrote:
[spoiler about ghoul abuse]
Every time I've "abused" this, I've gotten pretty well abused myself.
That is, I end up being a high-level character without any of the
equipment or attributes I need to survive high-level monsters. This is
a Bad Thing.
I don't do it. Not because I consider it an abuse but because I don't
like getting my butt kicked.
--
[ok]
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
StarChaser_Tyger
said,
>StarChaser_Tyger <StarC...@mindless.com> writes:
>> What's that, Lassie? <fish...@nerve.com> said,
>>
>> >Anyway, I wasn't "spoiled" to this, so I discovered on my own
>> >that E-ngraving on a tombstone creates a Ghoul,
>
>[...]
>
>> There is discussion as to whether this is an abuse or a feature...I'm
>> undecided, myself, but leaning toward abuse. On the other hand, there
>> IS a punishment built in...
>
>The DevTeam consider it a bug, however, that ghoul creation in this
>manner is unlimited; <http://www.nethack.org/v331/spoiler.html>,
>SC331-12, "fixed in next version". What restrictions they place on
>it we can assume to be their final word on the subject, I'd think.
Ah, so desu, I hadn't seen that. <grin> I still think it'd be cool to
keep it in, but give a <growing with time> chance of having something
Big, Mean and Nasty pop out, rip the enterprising disturbance's head
off, and belch in his or her skull.
Chi.
StarChaser_Tyger <StarC...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:7udd5tkbj7bj2494t...@4ax.com... [snippage]
> >The DevTeam consider it a bug, however, that ghoul creation in this
> >manner is unlimited; <http://www.nethack.org/v331/spoiler.html>,
> >SC331-12, "fixed in next version". What restrictions they place on
> >it we can assume to be their final word on the subject, I'd think.
>
> Ah, so desu, I hadn't seen that. <grin> I still think it'd be cool to
> keep it in, but give a <growing with time> chance of having something
> Big, Mean and Nasty pop out, rip the enterprising disturbance's head
> off, and belch in his or her skull.
"You disturb the undead! --More--"
"An arch-lich appears!"
Ouch.
Regards,
Chris.
StarChaser_Tyger
Exactly. And the soon to be dead character is standing there on level
1 with a dagger, a surprised look, and a lifespan measured in seconds.
Home User
>>"You disturb the undead! --More--"
>>"An arch-lich appears!"
>>
>>Ouch.
>
>Exactly. And the soon to be dead character is standing there on level
>1 with a dagger, a surprised look, and a lifespan measured in seconds.
And of course, a 100% chance of a bones pile!
Harri Haataja
><<snip>>
>>>"You disturb the undead! --More--"
>>>"An arch-lich appears!"
>>
>>1 with a dagger, a surprised look, and a lifespan measured in seconds.
>
>And of course, a 100% chance of a bones pile!
This might be the time to bring up again the vampire discussion.
I'm sure you guessed what I thought: Once in a while you get the chance
of a powerful vampire coming. The bones file would have a "Vampire
called Player" milling about at least at night-time.
.. Or when you abuse a grave, you are added to (a bones file?) list
of some sort and the next abuser gets a chance of you (W, V, Z ?)
coming up from the grave.
Donald Welsh
David Damerell
>maybe spoily
>my terminal has way more than 25 lines
>more than 43 lines
>bet most don't have 100 row xterms.
I have an 80x57 xterm. Good job it wasn't a spoiler, really. I suggest
the use of rot13 in future.
>that E-ngraving on a tombstone creates a Ghoul, an easy kill,
>and an easy way to get pre-10th-level experience in a really short
>number of turns.
And then get the shit beaten out of you by high-level monsters because you
lack the equipment. It's a marginal strategy with a high-Con combat
monster, and an absolute deathtrap for anyone else.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
| |I hear the fan of a big machine, Two days, I'm in between, break; | |
|---|lost, code fall through, Loop forever then process kill. Hermes is|---|
| | |broken and lyra's down, lyra's down. "Chimaera, my Nameserver"| | |
Strachan
"Harri Haataja" <ha...@tolppa.kotisivupalvelu.fi> wrote in message
news:slrn95j6o7...@tolppa.kotisivupalvelu.fi...
I must say that i very much like the idea of attracting more powerful undead
and especially the idea of creating a non-ghost undead former player
character to haunt the spot. It would be cool, too, if it were to come back
as a W, that it were to be stronger than normal W's, and would act like the
deceased player's level, and it's corpse could raise more than one level
through its consumption.
on another note,
Another idea for bones piles not related to the grave abuse thing would be
if the player were very pious, lucky, and good standing with the deceased's
god of choice, that he or she would have the bone's level altered and an
altar on the spot of death, possibly manned by a priest, and definetely
manned by the ghost. If one can kill the creature that killed the old
character, the ghost would become peaceful and possibly tame (tame only if
you share alignment). Maybe the inv items cou ld uncurse from this, too.
If you share alignment and sacrifice the creature that killed the original
character, the gods might show more gratefullness towards you than they
normally would.
hitting / and looking at the altar may bring up a messagelike "an altar to
[inster god name], dedicated on the hallowed grounds of the great martyr
[insert dead player's name]'s last stand"
whaddaya think?
bs
Harri Haataja
>>
>> This might be the time to bring up again the vampire discussion.
>> I'm sure you guessed what I thought: Once in a while you get the chance
>> of a powerful vampire coming. The bones file would have a "Vampire
>> called Player" milling about at least at night-time.
>>
>> .. Or when you abuse a grave, you are added to (a bones file?) list
>> of some sort and the next abuser gets a chance of you (W, V, Z ?)
>> coming up from the grave.
>
>I must say that i very much like the idea of attracting more powerful undead
>and especially the idea of creating a non-ghost undead former player
>character to haunt the spot. It would be cool, too, if it were to come back
>as a W, that it were to be stronger than normal W's, and would act like the
>deceased player's level, and it's corpse could raise more than one level
>through its consumption.
Or for added theatre (go as far as you wish):
1) When the player enters the room, a crow (raven?) will come and land on the
tombstone.
2a) A "revenging angel", Aleax?, Zombie? Well, something would rise and in
front of the player (if he follows and the creature that killed the former
player has not been killed) and proceed to hunt down and kill the original
baddy.
3) The risen would finally come and collapse on the grave.
I'd just love to see an O'Barr reference in NH as well and this is pretty
much as close as it gets. Even step 1 would suffice.
>altar on the spot of death, possibly manned by a priest, and definetely
>manned by the ghost. If one can kill the creature that killed the old
>character, the ghost would become peaceful and possibly tame (tame only if
>you share alignment). Maybe the inv items cou ld uncurse from this, too.
2b) If you'd have killed the original creature, the crow (raven?) would
bring you a ring or some other means of thank you.
>If you share alignment and sacrifice the creature that killed the original
>character, the gods might show more gratefullness towards you than they
>normally would.
Perhaps this would be required for 2b
The tombstone should also somehow mark the grave that either would not
respond anyhow (it's empty, the warrior is loose) or would be the one
you last want to disturb. Either the engraving should have something;
a big black bird over a name; or perhaps a blank stone or no stone
at all to accent the injustice done.
>hitting / and looking at the altar may bring up a messagelike "an altar to
>[inster god name], dedicated on the hallowed grounds of the great martyr
>[insert dead player's name]'s last stand"
I would prefer the "forgotten" style story more than the "hero".
>whaddaya think?
This might have something or at least it's good for talks.
Michael Meissner
Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
On the other hand, maybe one of the named demons, or perhaps death itself.
--
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc. (GCC group)
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work: meis...@redhat.com phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meis...@spectacle-pond.org fax: +1 978-692-4482
Chi.
> I (Chi.) said:
[about #engraving tombstones]
> > "You disturb the undead! --More--"
> > "An arch-lich appears!"
>
> Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
"just one arch-lich"?!
That would surely be enough to dissuade a character from over engraving
gravestones to gain easy XP...
We wouldn't want to be too nasty now would we... (and besides which
mind-flayer-kind (I'd say illithidae but NHINAD&D) are not undead)
Regards,
Chris.
V'rgo
> "Chi." <chri...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> "You disturb the undead! --More--"
>> "An arch-lich appears!"
>
> Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
>
> On the other hand, maybe one of the named demons, or perhaps death itself.
Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
really imagine Death dead. Can you?
And mind flayers aren't undead as well, I'm afraid. Of course, there's
always the chance that your favorite L could gate in some 'flayers.
Demon lords aren't undead either, BTW.
The only undead in src/monst.c are vampire bats, all L, all M, all V,
all W, all Z, ghosts and shades.
V'rgo
--
Good people die young.
Therefore, I will probably live forever.
- Virgo Vardja, 2000
Harri Haataja
>Michael Meissner wrote:
>> "Chi." <chri...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> "You disturb the undead! --More--"
>>> "An arch-lich appears!"
>>
>> Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
>>
>> On the other hand, maybe one of the named demons, or perhaps death itself.
>
>Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
>really imagine Death dead. Can you?
No, read Pratchett's "Reaper Man" for example for an insight ;)
"But under strange circumstances, even death may die."
>The only undead in src/monst.c are vampire bats, all L, all M, all V,
>all W, all Z, ghosts and shades.
I think ghosts would be better off referred to as just dead.
Robert Shaw
"V'rgo" <wwwardj...@rasi.lr.ttu.ee>
> Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
> really imagine Death dead. Can you?
> And mind flayers aren't undead as well, I'm afraid.
What happens if a vampire feeds off a mind-flayer?
A vampire mind-flayer could be interesting, and it
would be classed as a vampire, not a humanoid.
Mind-flayer zombies and mummies are also plausible,
and a suitable bodyguard for an annoyed arch-lich rising
from its grave.
A mind-flayer arch-lich might be excessive though.
--
'It is a wise crow that knows which way the camel points' - Pratchett
Robert Shaw
Michael Clarke
<Rob...@shavian.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"V'rgo" <wwwardj...@rasi.lr.ttu.ee>
>
>> Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
>> really imagine Death dead. Can you?
>> And mind flayers aren't undead as well, I'm afraid.
>
>What happens if a vampire feeds off a mind-flayer?
>
>A vampire mind-flayer could be interesting, and it
>would be classed as a vampire, not a humanoid.
>
>Mind-flayer zombies and mummies are also plausible,
>and a suitable bodyguard for an annoyed arch-lich rising
>from its grave.
>
>A mind-flayer arch-lich might be excessive though.
Which is somewhat worrying at the Ilithid are very intelligent and
have more than a few mages of thier own (although not in this game).
As you know, a lich is a wizard who refused to leave...
Mik
Kieron Dunbar
> "Chi." <chri...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> "You disturb the undead! --More--"
>> "An arch-lich appears!"
> Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
> On the other hand, maybe one of the named demons, or perhaps death itself.
No, death's even more pathetic when he's not even on his own plane...
kwaheri, Kieron (reverse username to reply)
Chi.
> V'rgo wrote:
[snip #engraving abuse solution #117(b) - Summon Death]
>>Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
>>really imagine Death dead. Can you?
>
> No, read Pratchett's "Reaper Man" for example for an insight ;)
But Death didn't actually die... I think.
(I was going to comment the same book as example though - you beat me to it!
;-)
> "But under strange circumstances, even death may die."
Hm... H.P. Lovecraft I think isn't it?
("That is not dead/which can eternal lie/yet with strange aeons/even death
may die")
Regards,
Chris.
StarChaser_Tyger
>"Chi." <chri...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> StarChaser_Tyger <StarC...@mindless.com> wrote in message
>> news:7udd5tkbj7bj2494t...@4ax.com...
>> > What's that, Lassie? psmit...@spod-central.org (Dylan O'Donnell)
>> [snippage]
>> > >The DevTeam consider it a bug, however, that ghoul creation in this
>> > >manner is unlimited; <http://www.nethack.org/v331/spoiler.html>,
>> > >SC331-12, "fixed in next version". What restrictions they place on
>> > >it we can assume to be their final word on the subject, I'd think.
>> >
>> > Ah, so desu, I hadn't seen that. <grin> I still think it'd be cool to
>> > keep it in, but give a <growing with time> chance of having something
>> > Big, Mean and Nasty pop out, rip the enterprising disturbance's head
>> > off, and belch in his or her skull.
>>
>> "You disturb the undead! --More--"
>> "An arch-lich appears!"
>
>Just one arch-lich? Maybe a swarm of arch-liches and mind flayers.
One at a time...One offense, one punishment. And since most grave
abuse happens on a very low level, one arch-lich is PLENTY.
And mind flayers aren't undead.
>On the other hand, maybe one of the named demons, or perhaps death itself.
Too much.
okbl...@my-deja.com
V'rgo <wwwardj...@rasi.lr.ttu.ee> wrote:
>
> Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
> really imagine Death dead. Can you?
Nethack aside, there was more than one culture in whose mythology the
mortality of death played a role.
Heck, John Donne wrote "Death be not proud", so I guess it's not that
far-fetched.
Harri Haataja
>Harri Haataja said:
>> V'rgo wrote:
> [snip #engraving abuse solution #117(b) - Summon Death]
>>>Er... Death isn't undead. You'd have to be dead, first, and I can't
>>>really imagine Death dead. Can you?
>>
>> No, read Pratchett's "Reaper Man" for example for an insight ;)
>
>But Death didn't actually die... I think.
Well, one did =)
I still think Dream dying is one of the most interesting turns a story
has taken.
>(I was going to comment the same book as example though - you beat me to it!
>;-)
Sorry =)
>> "But under strange circumstances, even death may die."
>
>Hm... H.P. Lovecraft I think isn't it?
>("That is not dead/which can eternal lie/yet with strange aeons/even death
>may die")
Quite likely. I've forgotten the original and my misquote is probably
of Omegan origin.
jdh...@ubsi.com
LOL!
(E)ngrave, -
You disturb the undead! --more--
Death appears before you! You are too terrified to move! --more--
Death vanishes, saying "Be seeing you..." --more--
You can move again.
(was going to say 'you piss in your...', then I remembered!)
Justin Hiltscher
--
(this sig intentionally left blank)
mgr...@ihug.co.nz
Returning to the original subject a little, is it abuse or cheating to
abuse a stat (like engraving on the gravestone abuses wisdom) heaps,
and then saving and restoring to wipe the stat abuse?
I would assume that it is cheating, because saving is out game, but
since it is done within NH this is open to debate...
Forgive me if stat abuses aren't erased any more, I can't seem to get
any newer ports of NH for my Acorn :D
james mcgill
<mgr...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>The HyperFiend arranges many monsters into the following pattern;
>
>
>Returning to the original subject a little, is it abuse or cheating to
>abuse a stat (like engraving on the gravestone abuses wisdom) heaps,
>and then saving and restoring to wipe the stat abuse?
Does saving and restoring cancel stat abuse?
If there is any difference in state between save and restore,
that's a bug, dammit.
Ziggy, killed by a trickery
--
% a piece of food (core dump named Ziggy)
Boudewijn Waijers
94t6e3$8d0$1...@famine.phx3.mindspring.net...
> If there is any difference in state between save and restore,
> that's a bug, dammit.
I can think of only one difference between a saved game and the original:
your message memory is erased.
I find even this little difference annoying, by the way... Sometimes, I have
to save a game in the middle of something important, and I'd like to be able
to recollect more easily what happened before saving.
Boudewijn Waijers
I don't like good losers,| www.win.tue.nl/games/roguelike/nethack/latest
'cause a good loser is a | for links to the latest version (3.3.1)
loser. - "Geoff", on | ftp.win.tue.nl/pub/games/nethack.331/...
"The Weakest Link". | for direct downloads of the new release
Stephen Watson
mgr...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> Returning to the original subject a little, is it abuse or cheating to
> abuse a stat (like engraving on the gravestone abuses wisdom) heaps,
> and then saving and restoring to wipe the stat abuse?
>
> I would assume that it is cheating, because saving is out game, but
> since it is done within NH this is open to debate...
>
> Forgive me if stat abuses aren't erased any more, I can't seem to get
> any newer ports of NH for my Acorn :D
Try <URL:http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/nethack/>
--
Stephen Watson <URL:http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/> Glorantha & RISC OS
"An eyeful of the future and a bellyful of the past,
How beautiful the present when you know it cannae last"
Kimmo Kasila
Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> I can think of only one difference between a saved game and the original:
> your message memory is erased.
>
> I find even this little difference annoying, by the way... Sometimes, I have
> to save a game in the middle of something important, and I'd like to be able
> to recollect more easily what happened before saving.
I usually write a small text file, with the most important things like
location
of altars, shops etc. Also, I write a brief text about what I am
planning to do,
just to help me remember. Something like "Next defeat the Medusa,
altar two levels
up, unlooted ring shop @ dlvl 6". And resistances.
I only do these when I get past sokoban and minetown, though, as that
is when
I consider the "early game" to be over.
--
KK
HyperFiend
>> Returning to the original subject a little, is it abuse or cheating to
>> abuse a stat (like engraving on the gravestone abuses wisdom) heaps,
>> and then saving and restoring to wipe the stat abuse?
>>
>> I would assume that it is cheating, because saving is out game, but
>> since it is done within NH this is open to debate...
>>
>> Forgive me if stat abuses aren't erased any more, I can't seem to get
>> any newer ports of NH for my Acorn :D
>
>Try <URL:http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/nethack/>
Problem, it wants 4.0, I have 3.11 and no idea what F+ is. I keep my
acorn for usability, and the fact that I have had 3 fatal errors in
all the 8 years I have had it :D So I don't really delve into anything
more complicated than I have to.
Thanks anyway;
HyperFiend
bernd...@my-deja.com
dneiF...@liamtoH.moc (HyperFiend) wrote:
(topic is Nethack 3.3.1 for Acorn)
> Problem, it wants 4.0, I have 3.11 and no idea what F+ is. I keep my
> acorn for usability, and the fact that I have had 3 fatal errors in
> all the 8 years I have had it :D So I don't really delve into anything
> more complicated than I have to.
On the web page it mentions raFS as an alternative, I think other FSes
such as SparkFS should work as well (I can run TeX from a compressed
archive without problems, just getting it all in took time ;-) )
At least older versions of these FSes should run under 3.11, and they
all provide long file names and > 77 files/dir. Just try!
I am currently using my PC for Nethack, as I got used to the tiles.
Shoudl they appear in the Acorn port, I'll switch faster than anybody
can think ;-)
Best regards
Bernd
Proud owner of an A5000 and a Risc PC with RO4