names of shopkeepers
Bartlomiej Tryton
Many clerks selling potions are named after polish towns
(Brzeg, Walbrzych, Swidnica). A hardware-shop-keeper never is.
As a Pole I find it offensif :)
and there's nothing funny about consomation of liquids in my country.
I am sure that the other names of shopkeepers have some
tricky allusion included. Could someone explain them ?
Dylan O'Donnell
Most of the shopkeeper names are taken from placenames around
the world. Trusting the comments in shknam.c:
Potion shops: Ukraine, N. Russia, Silesia, Switzerland
Bookshops: Ireland
Armour shops: Turkey
Wand shops: Wales, Scotland
Ring shops: Dutch surnames, Scandinavian "navne" (placenames?)
Food shops: Indonesia
Potion shops: Perigord (region in SW France)
Tool shops: anagrams of names of DevTeam members past and present
General stores: Surinam, Greenland, N. Canada, Iceland
Lighting shops: don't occur outside Minetown, where it will always be
Izchak, but if they did, would be Romania and Bulgaria.
Silesia, I understand, is an area in southern Poland and the eastern
Czech Republic; no idea which side of the border which of the names in
question have been taken from:
/* Silezie */
"Walbrzych", "Swidnica", "Klodzko", "Raciborz", "Gliwice",
"Brzeg", "Krnov", "Hradec Kralove",
--
: Dylan O'Donnell : Hora aderat briligi. Nunc et slithia tova :
: Demon Internet : Plurima gyrabant gymbolitare vabo; :
: Resident, Forgotten Office : Et borogovorum mimzebant undique formae, :
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Dathcha
"Bartlomiej Tryton" <try...@poczta.fm> wrote:
> I am sure that the other names of shopkeepers have some
> tricky allusion included. Could someone explain them
I've visited Rovaniemi's jewelry shop in several games and I remember seeing
Habaranda too. They're both city names too.
-Dathcha-
Bartlomiej Tryton
>Silesia, I understand, is an area in southern Poland and the eastern
>Czech Republic; no idea which side of the border which of the >names in
>question have been taken from:
Could You send me a full listing please?
(try...@poczta.fm)
> /* Silezie */
These ones are in Poland:
"Walbrzych", "Swidnica", "Klodzko", "Raciborz", "Gliwice",
"Brzeg",
This is in Czech Silesia:
"Krnov"
This one is also in Czech Republic:
"Hradec Kralove"
....but it pretty far from being a silesian town.
(besides Czech Silesia it's just 20 000 km^2 while in Poland
it's about 5 times larger)
Nathan Alexander Simington
Bartlomiej Tryton wrote:
>
> There is some interesting thing about the names of shopkeepers.
> Many clerks selling potions are named after polish towns
> (Brzeg, Walbrzych, Swidnica). A hardware-shop-keeper never is.
> As a Pole I find it offensif :)
> and there's nothing funny about consomation of liquids in my country.
>
> I am sure that the other names of shopkeepers have some
> tricky allusion included. Could someone explain them ?
Chicoutimi is a city in Quebec. I have no idea why this name was
chosen. Itzchak, as most serious hackers know, is named in memory
of one of the early leaders of the Nethack project. (I'm sure
someone has an Itzchak page, or at least could give you better
information than I did...)
Nathan
Peter Makholm
> Ring shops: Dutch surnames, Scandinavian "navne" (placenames?)
"navne" could be names of any kind.
Looking at the sourcecode for Slashem 5E7 (which is the only one I
know online) it says:
static const char *shkrings[] = {
/* Hollandse familienamen */
"Feyfer", "Flugi", "Gheel", "Havic", "Haynin", "Hoboken",
"Imbyze", "Juyn", "Kinsky", "Massis", "Matray", "Moy",
"Olycan", "Sadelin", "Svaving", "Tapper", "Terwen", "Wirix",
"Ypey",
/* Skandinaviske navne */
"Rastegaisa", "Varjag Njarga", "Kautekeino", "Abisko",
"Enontekis", "Rovaniemi", "Avasaksa", "Haparanda",
"Lulea", "Gellivare", "Oeloe", "Kajaani", "Fauske",
0
};
None of these names is danish and I don't think they sound Swedish og
Norwegian. Could all og them be finnish?
[Await the finnish readers suggestion]
BTW: "Skandinaviske navne" could be danish, but not the names.
--
They say that a black pudding is simply a brown pudding gone bad.
Peter Makholm
> Rastegaise, Luleå and Haparanda are in Sweden, near the Finnish border.
> Kautokeino is in Norway I think. Rovaniemi, Kajaani, Oulu, Enontekiö and
> Aavasaksa are in Finland. All those places are in Lapland.
> Gellivare could be Jällivaara and thus also in Finland.
I knew Luleå, we need a 8bit aware nethack.
But they all seems to be Sami names to me, so I don't think I was very
wrong.
--
Changing your suit without dropping your sword
You must be kidding!
Tuuli Tuominen
> /* Skandinaviske navne */
> "Rastegaisa", "Varjag Njarga", "Kautekeino", "Abisko",
> "Enontekis", "Rovaniemi", "Avasaksa", "Haparanda",
> "Lulea", "Gellivare", "Oeloe", "Kajaani", "Fauske",
> 0
>};
>
>None of these names is danish and I don't think they sound Swedish og
>Norwegian. Could all og them be finnish?
>
>[Await the finnish readers suggestion]
Rastegaise, Luleå and Haparanda are in Sweden, near the Finnish border.
Kautokeino is in Norway I think. Rovaniemi, Kajaani, Oulu, Enontekiö and
Aavasaksa are in Finland. All those places are in Lapland.
Gellivare could be Jällivaara and thus also in Finland.
Tuuli.
--
Despite the primal wishes of programmers and administrators everywhere,
computers don't exist in an environment devoid of users.
- Spencer & Lawrence, 'Managing Usenet'
Nathan T Moore
> There is some interesting thing about the names of shopkeepers.
> Many clerks selling potions are named after polish towns
> (Brzeg, Walbrzych, Swidnica). A hardware-shop-keeper never is.
> As a Pole I find it offensif :)
> and there's nothing funny about consomation of liquids in my country.
>
> I am sure that the other names of shopkeepers have some
> tricky allusion included. Could someone explain them ?
Peeking through shkname.c most all the various types of shops have several
nationalities listed for the various names. There are potion, food, wand,
ring, tool, book, armour, weapons, light and general shops. Each has a
set of names to draw from when selecting one.
The potion shops have Ukraine, russian, Silezie and Schweiz name types.
The ones you list fall under the Silezie.
Someone else mentioned, though I can't verify it, that some of the names
are names of contributors spelled backwards (the contributors from the
guidebook and such).
Nathan
Tommi Syrjanen
> None of these names is danish and I don't think they sound Swedish
> og Norwegian. Could all og them be finnish?
They are mostly placenames from Lappland (from all three countries:
Sweden, Finland, and Norway). I'm not sure about the languages, since
two of the Finnish places are either incorrectly spelled Finnish or
Sami. As my knowledge of Sami is _very_ limited (only a couple of
words), I don't know whether this the names are in that language. As
all my maps are away, I have to use my memory on this answer.
> "Enontekis",
> "Rovaniemi",
> "Avasaksa",
These are from Finland's Lappland. However, correct Finnish spelling
would be "Enontekiö" (if this does not come through intact, the last
letter is an 'o' with two dots on it) and "Aavasaksa".
> "Kajaani",
This is a town in northern Finland (not Lappland).
> "Kautekeino",
This is from Norway's Lappland, Finnish name of the place would be
"Koutokeino".
> "Haparanda",
> "Lulea",
> "Gellivare",
> "Rastegaisa",
These are definitely from Northern Sweden.
> "Varjag Njarga",
> "Abisko",
> "Oeloe",
> "Fauske",
I don't know about these, probably from Norway or Sweden.
- Tommi
Dylan O'Donnell
> Bartlomiej Tryton wrote:
> > I am sure that the other names of shopkeepers have some
> > tricky allusion included. Could someone explain them ?
>
> chosen. Itzchak, as most serious hackers know, is named in memory
> of one of the early leaders of the Nethack project. (I'm sure
> someone has an Itzchak page, or at least could give you better
> information than I did...)
The NetHack database entry for Izchak gives an overview of his role
in the development of the game:
The shopkeeper of the lighting shop in the town level of the
gnomish mines is a tribute to Izchak Miller, a founding member
of the NetHack development team and a personal friend of a large
number of us. Izchak contributed greatly to the game, coding a
large amount of the shopkeep logic (hence the nature of the tribute)
as well as a good part of the alignment system, the prayer code and
the rewrite of "hell" in the 3.1 release. Izchak was a professor
of Philosophy, who taught at many respected institutions, including
MIT and Stanford, and who also worked, for a period of time, at
Xerox PARC. Izchak was the first "librarian" of the NetHack project,
and was a founding member of the DevTeam, joining in 1986 while he
was working at the University of Pennsylvania (hence our mailing
list address). Until the 3.1.3 release, Izchak carefully kept all
of the code synchronized and arbitrated disputes between members of
the development teams. Izchak Miller passed away at the age of 58,
in the early morning hours of April 1, 1994 from complications due
to cancer. We dedicate NetHack 3.2 in his memory.
[ Mike Stephenson, for the NetHack DevTeam ]
Nathan Alexander Simington
Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>
> Nathan Alexander Simington writes:
> > (I'm sure someone has an Itzchak page, or at least could give you
> > better information than I did...)
>
> The NetHack database entry for Izchak gives an overview of his role
> in the development of the game:
[ snipped ]
I've never thought to look. Thanks for correcting me on facts (as well
as spelling :)
Nathan
Raisse the Thaumaturge
> /* Hollandse familienamen */
> "Feyfer", "Flugi", "Gheel", "Havic", "Haynin", "Hoboken",
> "Imbyze", "Juyn", "Kinsky", "Massis", "Matray", "Moy",
> "Olycan", "Sadelin", "Svaving", "Tapper", "Terwen", "Wirix",
> "Ypey",
The only ones I remotely recognize as Dutch are Feyfer (funny
spelling though), Gheel (more like Flemish actually, the "Hollands"
version would be "Geel"), Olycan (had a school friend called that)
and Wirix. Some of the others may be funny spellings as well (Havic,
Moy, Terwen). The rest look Slavic (Kinsky, Sadelin) or totally
unknown to me. For instance, no native Dutch word can ever start with
"sv".
Where do they come from? If it's a telephone directory, it should be
kept in mind that the Netherlands have traditionally taken in a lot
of fugitives from all over the world, many of whom have never changed
their names.
Raisse, killed by Mr.Asidonhopo, the shopkeeper
--
@ a human or elf (peaceful thaumaturge called Raisse)
3.3.0 - get it at www.nethack.org! - never ascended yet
ir...@rempt.xs4all.nl (myself) http://valdyas.conlang.org
Tuuli Tuominen
>
>But they all seems to be Sami names to me, so I don't think I was very
>wrong.
Nope, some of them are Finnish. But anyway. :)
Am I right in assuming that these names need to be uncommented from the code
or something before they show up? I swear I've never seen a shopkeeper named
Rovaniemi or Luleå.
Tuuli.
--
...time for you and time for me,
And time yet for a hundred indecisions
And for a hundred visions and revisions...
-- t.s. eliot
Dylan O'Donnell
> On 05 Jan 2000 16:53:36 +0100, Peter Makholm wrote:
> >
> >But they all seems to be Sami names to me, so I don't think I was very
> >wrong.
>
> Nope, some of them are Finnish. But anyway. :)
> Am I right in assuming that these names need to be uncommented from the code
> or something before they show up? I swear I've never seen a shopkeeper named
> Rovaniemi or Luleå.
Well, this particular batch of names is that of jewellers; ring shops
are one of the rarest variety in the dungeons (3% chance of a random
shop being one). It's quite likely that you've never visited enough
jewellers to come across particular names.
Wim
Raisse the Thaumaturge heeft geschreven in bericht
<85013i$i4c$3...@news1.xs4all.nl>...
>Peter Makholm <pe...@makholm.net> wrote:
>
>> /* Hollandse familienamen */
>> "Feyfer", "Flugi", "Gheel", "Havic", "Haynin", "Hoboken",
>> "Imbyze", "Juyn", "Kinsky", "Massis", "Matray", "Moy",
>> "Olycan", "Sadelin", "Svaving", "Tapper", "Terwen", "Wirix",
>> "Ypey",
>
>The only ones I remotely recognize as Dutch are Feyfer (funny
>spelling though), Gheel (more like Flemish actually, the "Hollands"
>version would be "Geel"), Olycan (had a school friend called that)
>and Wirix. Some of the others may be funny spellings as well (Havic,
>Moy, Terwen). The rest look Slavic (Kinsky, Sadelin) or totally
>unknown to me. For instance, no native Dutch word can ever start with
>"sv".
Most of the names turn up on dutch genealogical pages
Feyfer - someone who wrote some books about medicine about 1910
http://www.theodeboer.com/catalogs/history_of_medicine9.html
Someone called Flugi van Aspermont lived in holland, the origin
of the name seems Italian (Asprimonte is a part of italy)
http://www.my-ged.com/db/page/oudheusd/2037
Gheel - very common name in the flemish part of belgium, also
not uncommon in the south of the netherlands ('s Hertogenbosch for
example)
Havic??
Seems to have something to do with Magic the gathering, there also
exists an Havic Records, can't find it in the netherlands
Haynin - can only find it in france and eastern europy
hoboken - a part of rotterdam also of antwerp
found a dutch name in 1844
http://www.chabot.demon.nl/genealog/chabot02/hz001181.htm
Imbyze van Batenburg - old dutch family
one was governor of dutch guyana (now Suriname) in 1799
Juyn - found a few juyns in the netherlands - not common
Kinsky - Radslav Kinsky - Bohemian noble, came to Leiden
in the netherlands in 1620
http://www.etcl.nl/bc/whs/coll/beschr.htm
Massis - Flemish name. I've found a Frederik Jan Massis born 1797
who lived in Amsterdam
Matray - also spelled Matraij turns up in several places in
geneaoligical
homepages - Found in Luik in belgium 1830 they moved to north-holland
afterwards, originally a french name
de Moy - French name, moved from antwerp to holland in 1576 at the start
of
the 80 year war with spain when a lot of people moved from belgium to
the netherlands
Ypey - Frysian family in noordbergum in Tytsjerksteradiel
http://www.bng.nl/ngw/n/noardbur.htm
I think svaving is a misspelling for swaving, i found just two links
to svaving on the web one in an arboretal discussion group wich must
be a misspelling in one in Norway in long text, not as a name.
Wim
Ken Arromdee
Raisse the Thaumaturge <rai...@rempt.xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Where do they come from? If it's a telephone directory, it should be
>kept in mind that the Netherlands have traditionally taken in a lot
>of fugitives from all over the world, many of whom have never changed
>their names.
Nobody knows.
The names (except for the tool shops and lighting shops) date all the way back
to the original source code from 1985 and Hack 1.0.2. The header of the
file still includes:
/* Copyright (c) Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam, 1985. */
I assume they probably are the versions used in the Netherlands.
Tool shops are anagrammed or reversed Nethack implementors; I don't remember
when the lighting shop names were introduced (probably with the lighting
shops), but they follow the same country pattern as the others.
--
Ken Arromdee / arro...@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
"Eventually all companies are replaced." --Bill Gates, October 1999
Raisse the Thaumaturge
> I swear I've never seen a shopkeeper named
> Rovaniemi or Luleĺ.
Strangely enough, only yesterday one of my elven wizards escaped from
Rovaniemi's jewelers with enough rings to be burdened. She died, of
course.
Raisse, killed by an ettin zombie
Jorgen Grahn
>tuuli.t...@helsinki.fi (Tuuli Tuominen) writes:
>
>> Rastegaise, Luleå and Haparanda are in Sweden, near the Finnish border.
>> Kautokeino is in Norway I think. Rovaniemi, Kajaani, Oulu, Enontekiö and
>> Aavasaksa are in Finland. All those places are in Lapland.
>> Gellivare could be Jällivaara and thus also in Finland.
Gellivare is Gällivare, which is in Sweden.
...
>I knew Luleå, we need a 8bit aware nethack.
>
>But they all seems to be Sami names to me, so I don't think I was very
>wrong.
I think some/many of the names are of Sami origin, but the selection method
was probably more like "find a map of northen Scandinavia and pick
cool-looking names".
Strange that I haven't met any of those shopkeepers - maybe they are new for
3.3.0? Well, I have the sources; I can see for myself.
--
// Jorgen Grahn <jorgen.grahn@ | ''If the truth can be told so as to be
\X/ opensoftware.se>| understood, it will be believed.''
Weyfour WWWWolf (Urpo Lankinen)
>Kautokeino is in Norway I think. Rovaniemi, Kajaani, Oulu, Enontekiö and
>Aavasaksa are in Finland. All those places are in Lapland.
Obligatory nitpicking: Kajaani and Oulu are *not* in Lapland. Northern
Finland, yes, but a bit souther; in county of Oulu.
Just the fact that they're outside Kehä III doesn't put them
automagically into Lapland, HTH =)
--
$_='%?&%[=&+=?%=[%&+&%[*?]&=&~[;&+&{=?[?&%&[&{[%&^=?=[&%&]=?%~&~[?&+&~YiFF!
=[=~| Weyfour WWWWolf (aka. Urpo Lankinen), a lupine technomancer |=?*_=}?]
%}&};| ICQ:4291042 | www...@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/wwwwolf/ |&;&=~?]';
tr/?~=*;%&[{}]+_^ (),.:@\/\n0-9!|a-zA-Z/0-9acde/d; $_=pack("H*",$_); print;
Tuuli Tuominen
>
>Obligatory nitpicking: Kajaani and Oulu are *not* in Lapland. Northern
>Finland, yes, but a bit souther; in county of Oulu.
Yes, I know, I was trying to write shortly and limit the explanation of
Finnish geography for the benefit of the non-Finns here.
>Just the fact that they're outside Kehä III doesn't put them
>automagically into Lapland, HTH =)
Hey, don't go thinking that I'm a native stadilainen! I'm from 'somewhere
else' too.. :)
Tuuli.
--
Blokkaaminen on ilomme.
- N. Tyni 5.10.1999
Ole Overgaard
Tommi Syrjanen wrote:
> Peter Makholm <pe...@makholm.net> writes:
>
> > "Rovaniemi",
> These are from Finland's Lappland. However, correct Finnish spelling
Well, since the Finns claim that Santa Claus comes from Rovaniemi and
everybody else know he comes from the North Pole, could it then be that
Rovaniemi *is* the North Pole?
--
Best Regards
Ole
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole Overgaard, | mailto:ole.ove...@nokia.com
Remove "-V" from the mail address before sending mails to me.
Tuuli Tuominen
>
>Well, since the Finns claim that Santa Claus comes from Rovaniemi and
>everybody else know he comes from the North Pole, could it then be that
>Rovaniemi *is* the North Pole?
We don't claim that he comes from Rovaniemi. He comes from Korvatunturi,
which is further north and to the east, I think. I dunno, maybe anything
north from the polar circle (or is it arctic circle? Whatever) is near
enough to be the North Pole from a southern point of view.. :)
ObNethack: you know you've been playing Nethack too much when you start
looking for the #enhance command after a couple of hours of sword practice
during the iaido lesson..
Tuuli.
--
Any unmoderated public discussion space, no matter what the ostensible
subject, will eventually attract a clique of contributors who will use
the space primarily to discuss their personal lives and trade in-jokes.
Sjöberg's Law of Public Cliquishness
Ray Chason
>Peeking through shkname.c most all the various types of shops have several
>nationalities listed for the various names. There are potion, food, wand,
>ring, tool, book, armour, weapons, light and general shops. Each has a
>set of names to draw from when selecting one.
>
>The potion shops have Ukraine, russian, Silezie and Schweiz name types.
>The ones you list fall under the Silezie.
>
>Someone else mentioned, though I can't verify it, that some of the names
>are names of contributors spelled backwards (the contributors from the
>guidebook and such).
It's right there in shknam.c. I can't match all of them to the actual people,
but here they are:
static const char *shktools[] = {
/* Spmi */
"Ymla", "Eed-morra", "Cubask", "Nieb", "Bnowr Falr", "Telloc Cyaj",
"Sperc", "Noskcirdneh", "Yawolloh", "Hyeghu", "Niskal", "Trahnil",
"Htargcm", "Enrobwem", "Kachzi Rellim", "Regien", "Donmyar",
"Yelpur", "Nosnehpets", "Stewe", "Renrut", "_Zlaw", "Nosalnef",
"Rewuorb", "Rellenk", "Yad", "Cire Htims", "Y-crad", "Nenilukah",
"Corsh", "Aned",
#ifdef OVERLAY
"Erreip", "Nehpets", "Mron", "Snivek", "Lapu", "Kahztiy",
#endif
#ifdef WIN32
"Lechaim",
#endif
#ifdef MAC
"Nhoj-lee", "Evad\'kh", "Ettaw-noj", "Tsew-mot", "Ydna-s",
"Yao-hang", "Tonbar", "Kivenhoug",
#endif
#ifdef AMIGA
"Falo", "Nosid-da\'r", "Ekim-p", "Rebrol-nek", "Noslo", "Yl-rednow",
"Mured-oog",
#endif
#ifdef VMS
"Lez-tneg", "Ytnu-haled", "Niknar",
#endif
0
};
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze!
Jason Henry Parker
I took a few passes through dat/history to see how many I could work
out, and ended up writing a perl script to help:
perl -e '
@b=split //,$ARGV[0];
@c=<STDIN>;
while(defined($a=pop @b)) {
@c = grep m/$a/i, @c
}
print @c'
NAME < history
I edited the history file to include just the end credits, one name
per line.
In order, the decoded shopkeeper names are (I've marked unknowns with
a `?'):
Tom Almy
Ken Arromdee
Eric Backus
John S. Bien
Ralf Brown
Jean-Christophe Collet?
Steve Creps
Eric Hendrickson
Bruce Holloway
Richard P. Hughey
Greg Laskin
Steve Linhart
Ronald McGrath
Bruce Mewborne
Izchak Miller
Gil Neiger
Eric? Raymond
John Rupley
Mike Stephenson
Kevin Sweet
Scott R Turner
Janet Walz
> "Nosalnef",
Fenlason?
Andries Brouwer
Don G Kneller
Matt Day
Eric Smith
Kevin Darcy
Timo Hakulinen
David Cohrs
Dean Luick?
Pierre Martineau
Stephen Spackman
Norm Melluch
Kevin Smolkowski
Paul Winner
Yitzhak Sapir
Michael Allison
Probably Johnny Lee, porter of NetHack to the macintosh
> "Evad\'kh",
Dave KH?
Jon Wotte (the second o has an accent I can't see on this terminal)
Tom West
Andy Swanson
Hao-yang Wang
Barton House
Kevin Hugo
Olaf Seibert
Richard Addison
Mike Passaretti
Ken Lorber
Greg Olson
Gregg Wonderly
Mark Gooderum
David Gentzel
Joshua Delahunty
> "Niknar",
No prizes for that one. :)
Whew!
jason ``I hope you don't mind'' parker
--
____
\ _/__ ``When the RNG hands you a lemon, #apply it and
\X / see if you can make invisible ink or something.''
\/ -- Joel Gluth on rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Dion Nicolaas
Jason Henry Parker <jas...@uq.net.au> wrote:
[...]
> In order, the decoded shopkeeper names are (I've marked unknowns with
> a `?'):
Let's see if I can shine a light on those:
> Jean-Christophe Collet?
No doubt he's called Jacy (J.C.) in real life.
> Eric? Raymond
Not all of them have first names included... Eric S. Raymond, indeed.
> > "Nosalnef",
> Fenlason?
"Jay Fenlason wrote the original Hack with help from Kenny Woodland,
Mike Thome, and Jon Payne." (first line in history)
> Dean Luick?
Only one I can think of, too.
> Probably Johnny Lee, porter of NetHack to the macintosh
Correct. Note that 'Lechaim' is only present ifdef WIN32, and he did the
Windows 32 port. So if a Nohj-lee is ifdef MAC...
> > "Evad\'kh",
> Dave KH?
Could be David Hairston, one of the early mac-porters. Don't *know* what
his middle initial is, though.
--
---. /) | http://www.erebus.demon.nl/dion/nethack.html
/ \ / _ _ | _ _ _ The NetHack Index at Erebus
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Before you buy.