Pile of 24k black pudding corpses?
Jove
There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible. Even with corpse age
averaging adding new corpses shouldn't allow for a pile that large.
Even one new corpse per turn averaged by 24,000 shouldn't lower the
age much, should it?
Or do black pudding corpses last forever? (No, I don't think so,
but I have to ask.)
--
Nethack IS easy, if you play it the right way.
Try killing things from a distance.
All the best,
Jove
Christian Bressler
: There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
: corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible. Even with corpse age
: averaging adding new corpses shouldn't allow for a pile that large.
: Even one new corpse per turn averaged by 24,000 shouldn't lower the
: age much, should it?
: Or do black pudding corpses last forever? (No, I don't think so,
: but I have to ask.)
Without knowing the scene, could they possibly be laying on ice?
Marvin
Jove
<gas...@cs.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Jove <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>: There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
>: corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible.
<snip>
>
>Without knowing the scene, could they possibly be laying on ice?
>
Sorry, should have mentioned it's on dungeon level 4. Ice seems
unlikely to me, but I haven't researched it. Plus, when he steps on
the square with the corpses, I don't see a message about ice. I'd
expect one, but that doesn't mean there is one.
Even ice would only double the length of time before the corpses
rotted away, if I'm reading the spoilers correctly. I did a fair
amount of research, but could only find out that bit about ice, and
that corpses up to 50 turns old could be sacrificed. Nothing about
when corpses rotted away, nor about how a pile of corpses' age changed
when a new corpse was added.
Anyway, the corpses definitely aren't on an altar because the
player's standing on the altar. The turn counter is now: 520,231.
Score of 60,745,408. XL of 29. AC: -34 Hp:360(360) Pw:285(360).
Both Hp and Pw are generally maxed.
Seraphim
news:fk2hv15em4trlchvb...@4ax.com:
> There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
> corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible. Even with corpse age
> averaging adding new corpses shouldn't allow for a pile that large.
> Even one new corpse per turn averaged by 24,000 shouldn't lower the
> age much, should it?
>
> Or do black pudding corpses last forever? (No, I don't think so,
> but I have to ask.)
IIRC when corpses merge the age of the pile is an average of the age of
the pile and the age of the new corpse. I do not know if this is weighted
for the number of corpses in the pile or not, but if it wasn't it would
not be very hard to accomplish what you are describing.
Inlaw Biker
Jove wrote:
> Anyway, the corpses definitely aren't on an altar because the
> player's standing on the altar. The turn counter is now: 520,231.
> Score of 60,745,408. XL of 29. AC: -34 Hp:360(360) Pw:285(360).
> Both Hp and Pw are generally maxed.
I suspect somebody has written a very good pudding-farming script.
Greg.
rpresser
Jove wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2006 15:32:34 GMT, Christian Bressler
> <gas...@cs.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> >Without knowing the scene, could they possibly be laying on ice?
> >
>
> Sorry, should have mentioned it's on dungeon level 4. Ice seems
> unlikely to me, but I haven't researched it. Plus, when he steps on
> the square with the corpses, I don't see a message about ice. I'd
> expect one, but that doesn't mean there is one.
>
> Even ice would only double the length of time before the corpses
> rotted away, if I'm reading the spoilers correctly. I did a fair
> amount of research, but could only find out that bit about ice, and
> that corpses up to 50 turns old could be sacrificed. Nothing about
> when corpses rotted away, nor about how a pile of corpses' age changed
> when a new corpse was added.
>From source diving:
Corpses usually rot away after 250 turns. They become tainted after 50.
A comment says /* rotting on ice takes 2 times as long */
Corpse merging is done proportionally to quantity. As I read it,
dropping a corpse of age 1 on a pile of N corpses of age 20, where N is
any number at all greater than 20, should result in a pile of N+1
corpses of age 19. This is because of integer division.
However, I don't think you could do it that fast. You need at least 1
move to kill the pudding, 1 move to move onto it and pick it up (or is
that 2 moves?), 1 move to move onto the pile and 1 move to drop it. So
... recalculating ...
interesting. Adding a corpse of age 4 to a pile of 20 or more corpses
of age 20, still yields a pile of age 19. But that's only going to
youngify the pile by one turn, and you need 4 turns to get a new
corpse; so over time the pile is still going to age.
Janis Papanagnou
It is weighted, and then divided by the sum of all objects.
/* Approximate age: we do it this way because if we were to
* do it "accurately" (merge only when ages are identical)
* we'd wind up never merging any corpses.
* otmp->age = otmp->age*(1-proportion) + obj->age*proportion;
*/
otmp->age = ((otmp->age*otmp->quan) + (obj->age*obj->quan))
/ (otmp->quan + obj->quan);
Janis
Janis Papanagnou
>
> Corpse merging is done proportionally to quantity. As I read it,
> dropping a corpse of age 1 on a pile of N corpses of age 20, where N is
> any number at all greater than 20, should result in a pile of N+1
> corpses of age 19. This is because of integer division.
>
> However, I don't think you could do it that fast. You need at least 1
> move to kill the pudding, 1 move to move onto it and pick it up (or is
> that 2 moves?), 1 move to move onto the pile and 1 move to drop it. So
> ... recalculating ...
In the reported situation of pudding farming you usually won't kill and
carry the corpse; the pudding will spawn or move onto the corpse stack
and be killed there.
> interesting. Adding a corpse of age 4 to a pile of 20 or more corpses
> of age 20, still yields a pile of age 19. But that's only going to
> youngify the pile by one turn, and you need 4 turns to get a new
> corpse; so over time the pile is still going to age.
Janis
rpresser
Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> rpresser wrote:
> >
> > Corpse merging is done proportionally to quantity. As I read it,
> > dropping a corpse of age 1 on a pile of N corpses of age 20, where N is
> > any number at all greater than 20, should result in a pile of N+1
> > corpses of age 19. This is because of integer division.
> >
> > However, I don't think you could do it that fast. You need at least 1
> > move to kill the pudding, 1 move to move onto it and pick it up (or is
> > that 2 moves?), 1 move to move onto the pile and 1 move to drop it. So
> > ... recalculating ...
>
> In the reported situation of pudding farming you usually won't kill and
> carry the corpse; the pudding will spawn or move onto the corpse stack
> and be killed there.
All right; but you can't count on a pudding moving onto your pile on
every turn; so the average is still more than 1 turn and your pile
still ages.
Jove
>
>Jove wrote:
>> On 19 Feb 2006 15:32:34 GMT, Christian Bressler
>> <gas...@cs.tu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>
>> >Without knowing the scene, could they possibly be laying on ice?
>> >
>>
>> Sorry, should have mentioned it's on dungeon level 4. Ice seems
>> unlikely to me, but I haven't researched it. Plus, when he steps on
>> the square with the corpses, I don't see a message about ice. I'd
>> expect one, but that doesn't mean there is one.
>>
>> Even ice would only double the length of time before the corpses
>> rotted away, if I'm reading the spoilers correctly. I did a fair
>> amount of research, but could only find out that bit about ice, and
>> that corpses up to 50 turns old could be sacrificed. Nothing about
>> when corpses rotted away, nor about how a pile of corpses' age changed
>> when a new corpse was added.
>
>>From source diving:
>
>Corpses usually rot away after 250 turns. They become tainted after 50.
>
>A comment says /* rotting on ice takes 2 times as long */
>
>Corpse merging is done proportionally to quantity. As I read it,
>dropping a corpse of age 1 on a pile of N corpses of age 20, where N is
>any number at all greater than 20, should result in a pile of N+1
>corpses of age 19. This is because of integer division.
>
<snip>
He was killing all the puddings on the same square. No movement of
the corpses at all. And yes, one per move. The character was an
archaeologist, so was at least fast. Given the state of his other
equipment it's probably safe to assume he was very fast. He was never
burdened while killing puddings, so probably around 1.5 puddings per
game turn?
He did spend some time off from killing puddings picking up loot
from the pudding pile and dropping it on the square he killed from,
which was an altar.
He also did some major loads to his downstairs stash. The
downstairs was adjacent to the altar. His downstairs stash consisted
of items he dropped on the floor.
When he got back the from these trips the pudding pile was still
there.
Thanks for the research.
--
All the best,
Jove
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>rpresser wrote:
>>
>>>However, I don't think you could do it that fast. You need at least 1
>>>move to kill the pudding, 1 move to move onto it and pick it up (or is
>>>that 2 moves?), 1 move to move onto the pile and 1 move to drop it. So
>>>... recalculating ...
>>
>>In the reported situation of pudding farming you usually won't kill and
>>carry the corpse; the pudding will spawn or move onto the corpse stack
>>and be killed there.
>
> All right; but you can't count on a pudding moving onto your pile on
> every turn; so the average is still more than 1 turn and your pile
> still ages.
I am not sure about that. As far as I observed these situations, where
puddings are filling all squares around the heap, there's mostly some
pudding that would move in the monsters turn. And then there is on the
player side often speed involved, which adds to the effect.
If I understood you correct, if it were otherwise, you couldn't really
explain it?
Maybe some professional pudding farmers could give additional insights
from their experience in practise.
Janis
Art Willis
Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am not sure about that. As far as I observed these situations, where
> puddings are filling all squares around the heap, there's mostly some
> pudding that would move in the monsters turn. And then there is on the
> player side often speed involved, which adds to the effect.
>
> If I understood you correct, if it were otherwise, you couldn't really
> explain it?
>
> Maybe some professional pudding farmers could give additional insights
> from their experience in practise.
>
> Janis
Well, I'm not a professional pudding farmer, although I do play
one on nao, and my experience is that as long as you keep killing
them, they will keep on piling up. Even with taking turns to move
all the loot from the altar where they are killed to an adjacent
stash. However, for some reason, puddings killed while blind do
not stack with those killed while you can see. So, whenever I
want a fresh one to sacrifice, I just put on my blindfold and kill
a batch of 10 to 12. Sacrificing that lot will usually allow me
to pray. Then I can resume mass slaughter. When I want the pile
to rot away, I just keep putting on the blindfold and sacrificing
a batch. It seems to take a couple of hundred turns for the pile
to rot away, but I've never paid careful attention to exactly
how long it took. I seem to remember accumulating piles of up
to 30k.
Cheers.
Art
--
Art Willis
nhpl...@trantor.nospam.com Despam to reply
Ascended: A R T H V R W
r o o e a a i
dogscoff
Jove wrote:
> There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
> corpses.
What would happen if you zapped undead turning at the heap?
Janis Papanagnou
First I thought that the complete level might be instantly filled,
and started to dream about some tactical maneuvre at Astral...
...but then I had a look into the sources and found this comment:
"for a merged group, only one is revived; should this be fixed?"
Janis
dogscoff
Boo. I had wonderful visions of puddings filling the level and the rest
of the dungeon before escaping into other programs (my word processor
starts filling with "P"s) and finally oozing out of my computer's USB
ports and CD-tray.
That Bugs Bunny cartoon where he drops a jar of "instant martians" into
the sewer at the end springs to mind. (Hareway to the Stars, IIGC).
Richard Llewellyn Smith
> There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
> corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible. Even with corpse age
> averaging adding new corpses shouldn't allow for a pile that large.
> Even one new corpse per turn averaged by 24,000 shouldn't lower the
> age much, should it?
>
Did you actually see the puddings being killed? Could the player have
done something weird like collect an enormous pile of rocks, cast stone
to flesh, then zapped them with polymorph?
Rich
rpresser
> done something weird like collect an enormous pile of rocks, cast stone
> to flesh, then zapped them with polymorph?
Nope. Polymorphing a huge pile of meatballs yields either a flesh
golem, or ONE food item, and it won't be a corpse.
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>dogscoff wrote:
>>>Jove wrote:
>>>
>>>>There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
>>>>corpses.
>>>
>>>What would happen if you zapped undead turning at the heap?
>>
>>First I thought that the complete level might be instantly filled,
>>and started to dream about some tactical maneuvre at Astral...
>>
>>...but then I had a look into the sources and found this comment:
>>
>> "for a merged group, only one is revived; should this be fixed?"
>
> Boo. I had wonderful visions of puddings filling the level and the rest
> of the dungeon before escaping into other programs (my word processor
> starts filling with "P"s) and finally oozing out of my computer's USB
> ports and CD-tray.
LOL! :-)
Take care that you are not connected to the network while doing that! ;-)
(Hmm, my word processor (vim) will paste the contents of his cut buffer
with every 'P' coming along; wow, that might again multiply the outcome.)
> That Bugs Bunny cartoon where he drops a jar of "instant martians" into
> the sewer at the end springs to mind. (Hareway to the Stars, IIGC).
Janis
dogscoff
Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> dogscoff wrote:
> > Boo. I had wonderful visions of puddings filling the level and the rest
> > of the dungeon before escaping into other programs (my word processor
> > starts filling with "P"s) and finally oozing out of my computer's USB
> > ports and CD-tray.
>
> LOL! :-)
>
> Take care that you are not connected to the network while doing that! ;-)
>
> (Hmm, my word processor (vim) will paste the contents of his cut buffer
> with every 'P' coming along; wow, that might again multiply the outcome.)
Hmmm... Who's the LA-based RGRNer responsible for this?
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_3529716
Janis Papanagnou
Luckily I am sitting in Europe and the puddings won't cross the ocean!
BTW, the article says: "This problem is not a simple fix." Don't they
know about the scroll of genocide? Would someone be so kind to tell them.
I would even spend one scroll of mine, but I fear they might fade if I
send them across the water without an oilskin sack.
Janis
Antoine
Don't genocide all black puddings! Or you'll be chased by many angry
Scotsmen
A.
Walter D. Pullen
news:dtacir$8vo$1...@online.de...
> Seraphim wrote:
> It is weighted, and then divided by the sum of all objects.
>
> /* Approximate age: we do it this way because if we were to
> * do it "accurately" (merge only when ages are identical)
> * we'd wind up never merging any corpses.
> * otmp->age = otmp->age*(1-proportion) + obj->age*proportion;
> */
>
> otmp->age = ((otmp->age*otmp->quan) + (obj->age*obj->quan))
> / (otmp->quan + obj->quan);
Large corpse piles can exist and grow eternally in Nethack due to integer
division in the formula above, which always rounds down. Say corpses decay
at age 100. Say also there's 1000000 corpses of age 99 in a pile about to
disappear. Now drop a fresh corpse on top of the file, i.e. 1 corpse of
age 0. What's the age of the new pile?
(1000000*99) + (1*0) / (1000000 + 1) = 99000000 / 1000001 = 98.9999 = 98
The entire pile just got younger (after rounding down). In fact dropping a
fresh corpse on a pile will always make the new pile younger by at least
one, no matter how many corpses are already present. As long as you add a
new corpse at least every other turn (so the pile on the whole moves toward
younger instead of older over time), you'll never reach the decay limit.
O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O
* Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen :) ! Ast...@msn.com *
O My 1st person Roguelike: http://www.astrolog.org/labyrnth/daedalus.htm O
*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*O*
Jove
<richard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jove wrote:
>> There's a player on NAO with a pile of 24,000+ black pudding
>> corpses. I wouldn't have thought that possible. Even with corpse age
>> averaging adding new corpses shouldn't allow for a pile that large.
>> Even one new corpse per turn averaged by 24,000 shouldn't lower the
>> age much, should it?
>>
>
>Did you actually see the puddings being killed?
Not all of them, but I did see him kill about 1k puddings while I
watched.
>Could the player have
>done something weird like collect an enormous pile of rocks, cast stone
>to flesh, then zapped them with polymorph?
>
I suppose so.
Art Willis
"rpresser" <rpre...@gmail.com> wrote:
Not always. I once got 819 food rations by polymorphing a pile
of black puddings. Getting a single food item is more common
though.
Cheers,