June 2007 nethack.alt.org Tournament post-mortem
Shawn Moore
First and foremost I want to thank paxed and dtype for running a great
service for free. Thanks also to Calamarain for providing trophy
images again this year.
Thank you to all the players for making this tournament *kick ass*
gamewise!
We had so many ascensions it tickles. Three hundred forty-nine. Full
stop. We toppled the previous monthly record on nethack.alt.org: 219
in October. We also beat /dev/null 2006's 327. Hooray! Counting
ascensions that started before June 1st, we got three hundred eighty-
eight throughout the month.
We also had most ascensions in a day. On the first we broke June
2006's fourteen with nineteen (and again a number of times). Finally
today, on the thirtieth, we bumped that nineteen up to twenty-two!
Woot!
We didn't break the record for most games in a month (June 2006 still
owns that one), but we did break the record for most games in a day:
701. Previous record: 582 on June 2nd, 2006. Neither are impressive
though because startscums easily inflate that.
[begin trophy summaries]
78291, please step forward and claim your *Most Insane Player*
trophy. :) Seriously, forty-two ascensions in a month? With a ratio
over 50%? I hope for my own ego's sake that you are more than one
person. Shimb and ekiM both achieved a less frightening fourteen
ascensions.
Shimb and ekiM both did very well in Longest Ascension Streak, at
fourteen and thirteen. Shimb's streak ended in the Mines, tagteamed by
a hobbit and spear-throwing gnome. ekiM is still on his streak. Here's
to hoping you beat Marvin's twenty-three!
I managed to get First Ascension at about 5:30am server time, a hair
before cathumper and rax. That ascension's YAAP is still forthcoming
(it took only two hours and forty-four minutes).
ContraDuck and ekiM both scored sub-10k turn ascensions (7572 and
9203, respectively). Great work guys.
Tenaya and rax achieved ten conduct ascensions, both getting all but
foodless and pacifist. Neither killed very many puddings. Just plain
skill! I had the pleasure of watching rax play a lot of her game in
person. Good fun!
Spazm by and large won Most Extinctionist with 14867 kills. funcrunch
runnered-up with about a third as many.
Tenaya and ekiM put in good showings for the new Truest Pacifist
Ascension trophy at 257 and 412 kills. That's definitely a trophy
worth keeping. Tenaya, the Dark One didn't even die in that ascension!
zubbdk won Richest Ascension with $219,899. With maximum carrying
capacity and nothing else in your inventory, that puts you at
*strained*. Put the gold into a blessed bag of holding and that's
still over half your carrying capacity before you hit burdened. How do
you even get that much gold in a game, short of finding a few Ludios
bones?
Theta unleashed some mad pacifist skills again and won Lowest Scoring
Ascension by a wide margin. Tenaya's fewest kills ascension managed to
score a cool 81306 points, which is most likely the lowest-scoring
ascension that had no intention of keeping the pacifist conduct. Nice
going you two!
Spazm took high-scoring ascension with 257 million points (also the
most extinctionist winner). A lot of spare wishes in that game!
Nothing really unusual going on in the high-scoring role trophies. All
roles were well-exercised.
Theta won the first ever Full Monty! Way to go!! I was convinced no
one was going to get it, but you flew in under the radar (since you
got Full Monty and Grand Slam simultaneously). 78291 and Shimb were
both pretty close, needing only foodless, illiterate, and pacifist
ascensions. Had Shimb scored those three, that would have been a Full
Monty *with bells*.
Shimb and ekiM both scored grand slams with bells on. 78291 got an
ordinary grand slam. I don't even have a grand slam over my entire
NetHack career, good work guys!
A number of people got Hat Tricks. The gap between the five races and
the thirteen roles is too large. Any suggestions on an intermediate
trophy?
La Grande Armee and On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix took first and
second place for Clan: Best in Show with 105.8 and 92 points. It
should be noted that these are the two halves of the Cabal from the /
dev/null tournament (the third half being fifth place Team Trophy with
29 points which was for "Cabal people who don't intend to play much").
Clan RGRN took third with 75 points.
La Grande Armee and On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix also took first and
second place for Clan: Most Ascensions with 50 and 36. Combined with
Team Trophy that's 97. Yes, we're a little nuts. But not as nuts as
78291!
On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix and La Grande Armee took first and
second for Clan: Ascension Ratio with 32.73% (36/110) and 26.88%
(50/186). Let the record show that I am responsible for over half of
On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix's deaths. Dig for Victory is hard!
Shimb (of RGRN) and ekiM (of On Her Majesty's Secret Cervix) ended up
with the most individual clan points with 42 and 38. Those are better
than most of the clans!
Sorry for not including Most Unique Deaths! I promise I'll make it up
to you (especially Theta, who continually poked me about it) next
year.
[end trophy summaries]
I hope you guys had fun playing in the tournament. I for one felt the
player and clan pages added a lot to the experience (but of course I'm
a little biased).
What do you guys want for next year? I'll probably write the bulk of
the scripts before even November. I'll start reusing scripts
eventually. 2006's was terrible. 2007 was marginally better but there
are a lot of ugly hacks in it. Fixing things during the tournament
(like adding a trophy-like display for individuals' clan points) made
it less elegant since there was the pressure of getting things done.
I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
is having every ascension be worth a point. Given that we can work out
what other things should be worth. There will also be role-specific
trophies for each single-ascension achievement (so Best Behaved
Valkyrie, Fastest Healer, etc). Suggestions made now are much more
likely to be implemented than suggestions in May 2008 (or worse, June
2008!). :)
Go Cabal!
Shawn M Moore
funcrunch
> Thank you to all the players for making this tournament *kick ass*
> gamewise!
And thank you for running it - I had a great time. Nethack is such a
solitary experience much of the time, it is fun to come together in
clans or even just compete singly in a tournament against awesome
players.
> 78291, please step forward and claim your *Most Insane Player*
> trophy. :) Seriously, forty-two ascensions in a month? With a ratio
> over 50%? I hope for my own ego's sake that you are more than one
> person. Shimb and ekiM both achieved a less frightening fourteen
> ascensions.
Yeah, I am really trying to fathom how it's possible or desirable to
ascend an average of more than one game per day for a whole month...
> Spazm by and large won Most Extinctionist with 14867 kills. funcrunch
> runnered-up with about a third as many.
I *knew* someone would beat me eventually! Looks like my first-place
and runner-up trophies for high role scores all got knocked down a
notch or more by the end too. Oh well, as we all say, score is not the
best evidence of ability in this game. Not surprisingly, Spazm and I
also got the last two places on the Fastest Ascension list. ;-)
> Tenaya and ekiM put in good showings for the new Truest Pacifist
> Ascension trophy at 257 and 412 kills. That's definitely a trophy
> worth keeping. Tenaya, the Dark One didn't even die in that ascension!
Especially considering Tenaya's avoidance of killing unique monsters,
that is one *truly* impressive feat.
> zubbdk won Richest Ascension with $219,899. With maximum carrying
> capacity and nothing else in your inventory, that puts you at
> *strained*. Put the gold into a blessed bag of holding and that's
> still over half your carrying capacity before you hit burdened. How do
> you even get that much gold in a game, short of finding a few Ludios
> bones?
With enough wishes I could imagine one could repeatedly wish for gold
in $5000 increments or whatever the game allows? Or perhaps reverse-
geno gold golems...
> A number of people got Hat Tricks. The gap between the five races and
> the thirteen roles is too large. Any suggestions on an intermediate
> trophy?
Could there perhaps at least be a trophy for all roles without regard
to race, alignment, or gender? Gender is easy, of course, but if
someone wants to ascend all 13 as a human then they should get some
credit I think...
> Clan RGRN took third with 75 points.
Go Team RGRN! :-D
> I hope you guys had fun playing in the tournament. I for one felt the
> player and clan pages added a lot to the experience (but of course I'm
> a little biased).
Absolutely - I checked them multiple times a day, it was addicting!
- funcrunch
Riina
>Shimb and ekiM both did very well in Longest Ascension Streak, at
>fourteen and thirteen. Shimb's streak ended in the Mines, tagteamed by
>a hobbit and spear-throwing gnome. ekiM is still on his streak. Here's
>to hoping you beat Marvin's twenty-three!
>Theta won the first ever Full Monty! Way to go!! I was convinced no
>one was going to get it, but you flew in under the radar (since you
>got Full Monty and Grand Slam simultaneously). 78291 and Shimb were
>both pretty close, needing only foodless, illiterate, and pacifist
>ascensions. Had Shimb scored those three, that would have been a Full
>Monty *with bells*.
I had some wild dreams about trying to get the Full Monty (with bells
on) - that's why the stupid priestess died because I wasn't playing
"my usual routine" (soko first, then mines). Well, that attempt on
foodless was hopeless. But somehow the game wasn't recorded anywhere
(well, there is a ttyrec)! I was kind of disappointed about that since
the death was so "cool" (killed by a spear). And I couldn't play after
that because of that missing death, people would have called me a
cheater etc. (So is it possible to add that death to my file somehow?)
Anyway I will now hone my NetHack skills and maybe achieve the Full
Monty next year...
Thanks for the tournament. :)
--
*R*
Calamarain
> A number of people got Hat Tricks. The gap between the five races and
> the thirteen roles is too large. Any suggestions on an intermediate
> trophy?
>
Idea - have a pair of trophies that are awarded for eight and eleven
different roles ascended. Then there's a graduation in between that's
not quite so severe. Going from 5 to 13 is slightly daunting,
especially
if you're weak on a couple of the roles, but from 5 to 8 isn't too
bad, nor
is 8 to 11.
As for naming - we already have the Birdie. Call them the Eagle and
the
Albatross, following the gold convention
Just a suggestion :)
Oh, and if I'm not too busy, I'm happy to do trophies again next year.
Roger "Calamarain" Barnett
-----
http://angband.calamarain.net/ - Tales From The Pit
The Angband Webcomic
-----
Gary Olson
> On Jun 30, 5:15 pm, Shawn Moore <sar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A number of people got Hat Tricks. The gap between the five races and
>> the thirteen roles is too large. Any suggestions on an intermediate
>> trophy?
>
> Could there perhaps at least be a trophy for all roles without regard
> to race, alignment, or gender? Gender is easy, of course, but if
> someone wants to ascend all 13 as a human then they should get some
> credit I think...
>
Decathalon trophy for 10 ascensions as a human?
> - funcrunch
>
Gary Olson
> What do you guys want for next year? I'll probably write the bulk of
> the scripts before even November. I'll start reusing scripts
> eventually. 2006's was terrible. 2007 was marginally better but there
> are a lot of ugly hacks in it. Fixing things during the tournament
> (like adding a trophy-like display for individuals' clan points) made
> it less elegant since there was the pressure of getting things done.
>
> I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
> is having every ascension be worth a point. Given that we can work out
> what other things should be worth. There will also be role-specific
> trophies for each single-ascension achievement (so Best Behaved
> Valkyrie, Fastest Healer, etc). Suggestions made now are much more
> likely to be implemented than suggestions in May 2008 (or worse, June
> 2008!). :)
>
>
1)Best all around human/elf/orc/gnome/dwarf for a player who ascends the
most character types of a single race (regardless of gender)?
2) Most masculine/feminine ascensions?
3) Most frustrated player: the player who never ascends whose has an
accummulated highest level killed.
4) Best bones file: the player which leaves the best loot in a bones file
5) Best horsemanship: the player which rides the most thru the game.
This might have to include a patch to add more saddles to the game.
6) The master polymorpher: the player which takes the most unique forms
-- with Bells on ascends in non-character form.
7) The glutton: eats the most food rations/C-rations/K-rations/etc --not
including corpses -- in a game. Never uses a ring of slow digestion.
With Bells On: wears a ring of hunger from the time he kills Rodney thru
the end of the game.
Shawn Moore
> On 1 heinä, 03:15, Shawn Moore <sar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Shimb and ekiM both did very well in Longest Ascension Streak, at
> >fourteen and thirteen. Shimb's streak ended in the Mines, tagteamed by
> >a hobbit and spear-throwing gnome. ekiM is still on his streak. Here's
> >to hoping you beat Marvin's twenty-three!
> >Theta won the first ever Full Monty! Way to go!! I was convinced no
> >one was going to get it, but you flew in under the radar (since you
> >got Full Monty and Grand Slam simultaneously). 78291 and Shimb were
> >both pretty close, needing only foodless, illiterate, and pacifist
> >ascensions. Had Shimb scored those three, that would have been a Full
> >Monty *with bells*.
>
> I had some wild dreams about trying to get the Full Monty (with bells
> on) - that's why the stupid priestess died because I wasn't playing
> "my usual routine" (soko first, then mines). Well, that attempt on
> foodless was hopeless.
Foodless isn't too difficult, just be a monk (for the intrinsics and
general kickassiness) or a wizard (and hope to start with a =oSD). It
just ties up a lot of your prayers in the early game.
> But somehow the game wasn't recorded anywhere
> (well, there is a ttyrec)! I was kind of disappointed about that since
> the death was so "cool" (killed by a spear).
It's because of an obscure bug. I won't get into it because it can be
used to cheat.
> And I couldn't play after
> that because of that missing death, people would have called me a
> cheater etc. (So is it possible to add that death to my file somehow?)
You can just play a normal game sloppily :) I was able to add a fake
death to the tournament logfile, but short of a paxed or dtype
intervention there's nothing we can do for the NAO master logfile.
> Anyway I will now hone my NetHack skills and maybe achieve the Full
> Monty next year...
Yay!
> Thanks for the tournament. :)
Thanks for playing!
Shawn M Moore
Shawn Moore
> Shawn Moore wrote:
> > What do you guys want for next year? I'll probably write the bulk of
> > the scripts before even November. I'll start reusing scripts
> > eventually. 2006's was terrible. 2007 was marginally better but there
> > are a lot of ugly hacks in it. Fixing things during the tournament
> > (like adding a trophy-like display for individuals' clan points) made
> > it less elegant since there was the pressure of getting things done.
>
> > I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
> > is having every ascension be worth a point. Given that we can work out
> > what other things should be worth. There will also be role-specific
> > trophies for each single-ascension achievement (so Best Behaved
> > Valkyrie, Fastest Healer, etc). Suggestions made now are much more
> > likely to be implemented than suggestions in May 2008 (or worse, June
> > 2008!). :)
>
> > Shawn M Moore
>
> 1)Best all around human/elf/orc/gnome/dwarf for a player who ascends the
> most character types of a single race (regardless of gender)?
That sounds pretty reasonable.
> 2) Most masculine/feminine ascensions?
Male and female are practically identical, this isn't a very
interesting trophy. :)
> 3) Most frustrated player: the player who never ascends whose has an
> accummulated highest level killed.
Experience level would be difficult because it would mean I would have
to download every single dumplog. Right now I'm able to download
"just" ascensions.
Dungeon level wouldn't be all that meaningful, especially with dig for
victory.
> 4) Best bones file: the player which leaves the best loot in a bones file
> 5) Best horsemanship: the player which rides the most thru the game.
> This might have to include a patch to add more saddles to the game.
> 6) The master polymorpher: the player which takes the most unique forms
> -- with Bells on ascends in non-character form.
> 7) The glutton: eats the most food rations/C-rations/K-rations/etc --not
> including corpses -- in a game. Never uses a ring of slow digestion.
> With Bells On: wears a ring of hunger from the time he kills Rodney thru
> the end of the game.
All of these are impossible to detect (at least automatically) with
the current software. We'd pretty much need a patch on NAO. Which is
really unlikely to happen short of the DevTeam releasing the next
version.
Thanks for your suggestions!
Shawn M Moore
John Doe
news:1183248952....@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> A number of people got Hat Tricks. The gap between the five races and
> the thirteen roles is too large. Any suggestions on an intermediate
> trophy?
>
Arrgh! I YASDed away my hat trick, but had a great time in the tourney.
I think grand (race), grand (alignment) trophies would add a lot of
possibilities inbetween the hat trick and grand slam, as well as the rest of
the field. Add a grand dwarf trophy to that hat trick if you know thats all
the play you have left. Or just go for the grand chaotic (6 ascensions)
from the start, picking up a grand orc on the way. Grand complications for
the scoring system indeed, I know.
Here's one for you, on behalf of all who played.
Best Tournament Ever!
- firemonkey
funcrunch
> funcrunch wrote:
> > Could there perhaps at least be a trophy for all roles without regard
> > to race, alignment, or gender? Gender is easy, of course, but if
> > someone wants to ascend all 13 as a human then they should get some
> > credit I think...
>
> Best all around human?
> Decathalon trophy for 10 ascensions as a human?
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply humans were harder (or easier)
to ascend; I just used that race as an example because it's the only
one that can play every role. I've ascended all roles offline, but
having to do that in addition to making sure all races, alignments and
genders were covered in a single month is quite a feat.
- funcrunch
Rast
Shawn Moore (sar...@gmail.com) wrote:
> We had so many ascensions it tickles. Three hundred forty-nine. Full
> stop. We toppled the previous monthly record on nethack.alt.org:
> We didn't break the record for most games in a month (June 2006 still
Perhaps people are getting better: playing less games because their games
last longer. One could, for instance, compare total monster kills in
June 2006 with those in June 2007...
> I hope you guys had fun playing in the tournament. I for one felt the
> player and clan pages added a lot to the experience (but of course I'm
> a little biased).
Thanks for running it!
> I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
> is having every ascension be worth a point.
Make it a *base* of one point, with multipliers for conducts and speed.
> There will also be role-specific
> trophies for each single-ascension achievement (so Best Behaved
> Valkyrie, Fastest Healer, etc).
Good.
--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
Shawn Moore
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 00:15:52 -0000,
> Shawn Moore (sar...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > We had so many ascensions it tickles. Three hundred forty-nine. Full
> > stop. We toppled the previous monthly record on nethack.alt.org:
> > We didn't break the record for most games in a month (June 2006 still
>
> Perhaps people are getting better: playing less games because their games
>
> last longer. One could, for instance, compare total monster kills in
> June 2006 with those in June 2007...
Could, but since 2007 had trophies specifically awarding few/many
monster kills.. :)
> > I hope you guys had fun playing in the tournament. I for one felt the
> > player and clan pages added a lot to the experience (but of course I'm
> > a little biased).
>
> Thanks for running it!
>
> > I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
> > is having every ascension be worth a point.
>
> Make it a *base* of one point, with multipliers for conducts and speed.
Each ascension is worth at least one point, sure. But there are so
many factors in what makes an ascension worth more than another.
Do we count pacifist more than genoless? How much more?
Do we award points for taking less realtime than the average?
How does realtime bonus compare to turncount bonus?
Any bonus for killing few/many monsters?
Any bonus for ascending with spare wishes?
Any bonus for getting an (0:1) wand at the Castle?
What about counting charges on wands of death?
What about counting tins of spinach?
What about counting the depth of Mines?
If you can come up with a coherent system that awards extra points to
impressive ascensions, I'll seriously consider using it. But I don't
think it can be done fairly. :)
> > There will also be role-specific
> > trophies for each single-ascension achievement (so Best Behaved
> > Valkyrie, Fastest Healer, etc).
>
> Good.
Shawn M Moore
averin
> What do you guys want for next year? I'll probably write the bulk of
> the scripts before even November. I'll start reusing scripts
> eventually. 2006's was terrible. 2007 was marginally better but there
> are a lot of ugly hacks in it. Fixing things during the tournament
> (like adding a trophy-like display for individuals' clan points) made
> it less elegant since there was the pressure of getting things done.
1) Most Super-Annoying Late-Game Instadeaths. (where late-game
is defined as, say, post-quest -- or maybe it could involve turn
count).
Eels, self-genocide, choking, biting cockatrices while polymorphed,
etc.
are all fair game.
2) Most Stupid Ascension Tricks achieved in a single game -- as
defined by the list at
http://www.thinksystem.net/nethack/
> Shawn M Moore
averin.
sjde...@yahoo.com
> On Jul 1, 3:39 pm, Rast <r...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 00:15:52 -0000,
> > Shawn Moore (sar...@gmail.com) wrote:
> >
> > > We had so many ascensions it tickles. Three hundred forty-nine. Full
> > > stop. We toppled the previous monthly record on nethack.alt.org:
> > > We didn't break the record for most games in a month (June 2006 still
> >
> > Perhaps people are getting better: playing less games because their games
> >
> > last longer. One could, for instance, compare total monster kills in
> > June 2006 with those in June 2007...
>
> Could, but since 2007 had trophies specifically awarding few/many
> monster kills.. :)
>
> > > I hope you guys had fun playing in the tournament. I for one felt the
> > > player and clan pages added a lot to the experience (but of course I'm
> > > a little biased).
> >
> > Thanks for running it!
Definitely! This was the most fun nethack tournament I've played in.
> > > I'm going to be revamping the scoring system for next year. Change one
> > > is having every ascension be worth a point.
> >
> > Make it a *base* of one point, with multipliers for conducts and speed.
>
> Each ascension is worth at least one point, sure. But there are so
> many factors in what makes an ascension worth more than another.
>
> Do we count pacifist more than genoless? How much more?
Do it from tournament stats. The 1/3 of conducts that wind up most
common count .1 point each, the next 1/3 count .2 points each, the
last 1/3 cound .4 points each.
> Do we award points for taking less realtime than the average?
No, nethack is a turn-based game--counting realtime is against that
spirit.
> How does realtime bonus compare to turncount bonus?
As a turn-based game, minimizing turns is what counts.
I'd leave it as Fastest Asc (and Fastest Role, maybe fastest Race as
well).
If you wanted to you could consider tournament-weighting it by decile
(bottom decile = 0 bonus points, 2nd decile = .1 point, 3rd = .
2...fastest 10% of ascensions get +.9 points, on top of any Fastest
Foo they might earn).
> Any bonus for killing few/many monsters?
The existing most extinctionist/truest pacifist are fine I think.
> Any bonus for ascending with spare wishes?
Just encourages farming, or tedious behavior to get that last candle
or whatever via non-wish means. Really, if I need conflict,
levitation, and telecontrol, it's almost no extra effort to polypile
for 2 of them and wish up whatever shows last vs. blowing 3 wishes,
but if I've happened to find an extra /wishing it's just tedium.
> Any bonus for getting an (0:1) wand at the Castle?
That's completely out of the player's control, so I'd say no.
> What about counting charges on wands of death?
> What about counting tins of spinach?
> What about counting the depth of Mines?
Ditto.
> If you can come up with a coherent system that awards extra points to
> impressive ascensions, I'll seriously consider using it. But I don't
> think it can be done fairly. :)
I agree, basically. I would say that if normal ascensions are 1
point, the 2nd and additional ascensions in a row are 2 points. 6
ascensions = 6 points. 2-in a row, die, 2 in a row, die, 2 in a row =
9 points. 6 in a row = 11 points.
I could also see giving a point for <20k turns (the only real game-
clock cutoff point), maybe just 1/2 point.
Martin Read
>Shawn Moore wrote:
>> Do we award points for taking less realtime than the average?
>
>No, nethack is a turn-based game--counting realtime is against that
>spirit.
Counterpoint: Someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in six hours *is*
more impressive than someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in thirty
hours.
--
MySpace fills the vast consumer demand for the opportunity to make home pages
that look like a smurf on acid threw up. Its core audience is the same people
who twenty years ago got a Mac and used nineteen fonts in every document.
-- Red Drag Diva
Martin Read
>1) Most Super-Annoying Late-Game Instadeaths. (where late-game
>is defined as, say, post-quest -- or maybe it could involve turn
>count).
Turn count? Hahahahaha.
No, seriously. Rast and Marvin (and some other people) can ascend in 10k
turns; some people take 100k.
Janis Papanagnou
> "sjde...@yahoo.com" <sjde...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Shawn Moore wrote:
>>
>>>Do we award points for taking less realtime than the average?
>>
>>No, nethack is a turn-based game--counting realtime is against that
>>spirit.
>
> Counterpoint: Someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in six hours *is*
> more impressive than someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in thirty
> hours.
Not in my book. How could that be a measure if it's possible to leave
the keyboard with an open session for a while or if on decides to use
single movement steps (h j k l) instead of the less time consuming
interface commands (gh gj gk gl _ etc.) or any of the other shortcuts
the interface provides.[*]
10k turns is very impressive to me, and a complete game played in less
than six hours I find very astonishing; though the latter does not say
much about general Nethack skills, IMO.
Back to (one of) the original question(s); someone who is fast on the
real life timescale will also get more trophies during a turnament, so
there's no need to multiply that number further.
Janis
[*] Interface proficiency might be part of a playing skill but on the
meta-level, not a proficiency in solving the game.
carlh...@gmail.com
>
> First and foremost I want to thank paxed and dtype for running a great
> service for free. Thanks also to Calamarain for providing trophy
> images again this year.
>
> Thank you to all the players for making this tournament *kick ass*
> gamewise!
Thanks paxed, dtype, Shawn and all of the players! I had a great time
playing and watching this month! Super fun! I would check the
scoreboard several times a day to see how the Best of 13, and
Streak'ers were doing.
C
Shawn Moore
wrote:
> Martin Read wrote:
> > "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>Shawn Moore wrote:
>
> >>>Do we award points for taking less realtime than the average?
>
> >>No, nethack is a turn-based game--counting realtime is against that
> >>spirit.
>
> > Counterpoint: Someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in six hours *is*
> > more impressive than someone who can do a 10k turn ascension in thirty
> > hours.
>
> Not in my book. How could that be a measure if it's possible to leave
> the keyboard with an open session for a while
The way we usually time games is by collapsing pauses longer than ten
seconds into ten seconds. Devnull does not do this. The only way to
pause the timer is to save your game.
> or if on decides to use
> single movement steps (h j k l) instead of the less time consuming
> interface commands (gh gj gk gl _ etc.) or any of the other shortcuts
> the interface provides.[*]
If you're minimizing turns, you wouldn't be using gh gj gk gl _ etc.
at all because they can be inaccurate (such as _ refusing to step over
sleeping gas traps even if you have sleep resistance). If you're
minimizing time, then these become very effective commands because you
can zip across the map in two seconds (or if you're lucky, instantly).
Using the more turnwise-efficient but slower commands is their own
penalty if you're counting realtime. They tend to waste turns, so
there's a real tradeoff there.
>
> 10k turns is very impressive to me, and a complete game played in less
> than six hours I find very astonishing; though the latter does not say
> much about general Nethack skills, IMO.
What about two (three! >_>) sub three-hour ascensions? :(
sjdevnull said pretty much the same thing and I find it disappointing.
Mostly because it's the only skill I have!
>
> Back to (one of) the original question(s); someone who is fast on the
> real life timescale will also get more trophies during a turnament, so
> there's no need to multiply that number further.
That's true enough. I hope that "turnament" pun was accidental!
>
> Janis
>
> [*] Interface proficiency might be part of a playing skill but on the
> meta-level, not a proficiency in solving the game.
Shawn M Moore
Shawn Moore
> On Jul 2, 11:33 am, Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanag...@hotmail.com>
> > than six hours I find very astonishing; though the latter does not say
> > much about general Nethack skills, IMO.
>
> What about two (three! >_>) sub three-hour ascensions? :(
>
> sjdevnull said pretty much the same thing and I find it disappointing.
> Mostly because it's the only skill I have!
Sorry to reply to my post, but just after I hit send I verbalized a
better point.
The six hour ascension does show more general NetHack skill because
the thirty hour player probably spent much more time consulting
spoilers, discussing/pondering courses of action, and wizmode testing.
If a person spends five minutes pondering, weighing, calculating, and
countercalculating every course of action for every move and ascends
in 8000 turns, how impressive is that, really? Assuming the character
is of normal speed, that's over 22 days straight, without rest.. add
fast or very fast and you're looking at a solid month of play.
Granted an 8000 turn ascension is impressive. I'm just saying it's way
more impressive when it's six hours than when it's
667 hours.
Realtime is just as valid as any other metric, except that it's not
explicitly tracked by the game.
Shawn M Moore
Raisse the Thaumaturge
> The six hour ascension does show more general NetHack skill because
> the thirty hour player probably spent much more time consulting
> spoilers, discussing/pondering courses of action, and wizmode testing.
Or had a life.
Raisse, killed by a baby black dragon
--
ir...@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Mike Kelly
> Shawn Moore wrote:
> > The six hour ascension does show more general NetHack skill because
> > the thirty hour player probably spent much more time consulting
> > spoilers, discussing/pondering courses of action, and wizmode testing.
>
> Or had a life.
... because they spent more time on NetHack??
Shawn Moore
> Shawn Moore wrote:
> > The six hour ascension does show more general NetHack skill because
> > the thirty hour player probably spent much more time consulting
> > spoilers, discussing/pondering courses of action, and wizmode testing.
>
> Or had a life.
>
> Raisse, killed by a baby black dragon
> --
> Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Pauses longer than 10s are usually condensed into 10s.
Shawn M Moore