NetHack Poll 2009
Patric Mueller
After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
downloaded at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/poll_results.txt) and in loose
cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
players, both currently active and past players.
This poll will run through the month of November. Afterwards the
results will be released to the public.
Please spread the word about this poll to other NetHack playing people
you know.
You can either directly reply to this mail and send it to
netha...@gmail.com
Or post it to rec.games.roguelike.nethack
Or fill out the online form on
http://nethack-de.sf.net/poll.html
1. What is your age and gender?
2. Which country do you live in?
3. Do you play locally, on a server or both?
4. Do you play Tiles or ASCII or both?
5. On which Operating Systems or Devices do you play NetHack?
6. Where did you get your copy of NetHack from?
7. Do you play a patched NetHack or variants of NetHack?
8. Which Roguelikes have you played before? (Crawl, ADOM, Angband,
etc.)
9. Where did you learn about NetHack?
10. And when?
11. How often did you win NetHack? (If never, you may specify your
best game.)
12. To what extent do you use spoiler for playing NetHack?
13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
quit?
14. If you take part in the NetHack DevNull tournament: where did you
hear about it?
15. Did you ever recommend NetHack to someone?
16. Which computer game other than NetHack did you play most in the
last three months (August, September, October)?
17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
the results of this poll.
Many thanks,
Patric Mueller (lead developer of NetHack-De and UnNetHack)
Note: Your e-mail address will not be shared with any third parties.
After the poll is closed and the final results have been
published all replies will be deleted.
Janis Papanagnou
>
> The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
> players, both currently active and past players.
And what is the intention of gathering that information?
Janis
lmfback
janis_pa...@hotmail.com says...
Just reading the Crawl one was damn interesting. I especially found the
part about language and the number of players in the US interesting. I
knew Finland would be high up and sometimes I contribute the high
general knowledge of mythic stuff & all in Finland to nethack playing.
Preposterous, I know :D
Eskimo
--
//------------------------------
//Remove tämä all the way to and including soomee to mail directly.
//Ascended:W,V (genopolywish),P(ill ath), T,K,H,S,B,C,P,W
(naked),Ro,Ra,A,W,almost pacifist A
//In progress:PAIN
robin
The Department of Yendorian Security has noted that you asked that
question and will contact you with more information at a time and
location yet to be determined, possibly involving a dark alley.
Patric Mueller
The usual. Making pretty pictures from the data, being able to better
focus the commercials to the target group, having hard data to
scientifically disprove Ido's poll from last month. ;-)
As a game developer it's important to know what the player base you're
developing on looks like.
Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll? David Ploog
offered to share the code they used to evaluate their poll so we'd see
similar results and might be able to somewhat compare Crawl's
community with NetHack's.
The spoiler question came directly from Derek, to maybe get an idea
if NetHack player in general are spoiled, prefer to be spoiled or
would rather not use them. This question is rather vague but we didn't
come up with something better. I have no doubt that rgrn regulars are
spoiled and are using them extensively but I don't know they would
prefer if they didn't have to.
I am rather interested about the reasons people quit playing NetHack
(this directly transfers into suggestions how to make your variant
better) and if there's still a influx of new players to NetHack or do
all new player got to Crawl and stay there (okay, we won't see those but there
have already some people answered who play Crawl before coming to
NetHack)?
Bye
Patric
--
NetHack-De: NetHack auf Deutsch - http://nethack-de.sf.net/
NetHack for AROS: http://sf.net/projects/nethack-aros/
UnNetHack: http://apps.sf.net/trac/unnethack/
Xmas
> 13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
> quit?
This question seems a bit pointless, since those who have left Nethack
would be less likely to take the time to fill in a survey about it.
Derek Ray
Not necessarily. There is a difference between "left" and "no longer
play regularly", and I know many players who have migrated to Crawl, but
still hang around in #nethack on freenode.
Even "inactive" players such as the above can provide useful
information, as there _are_ two active variants right now. Identifying
what people dislike and/or find frustrating about vanilla can help us
target future changes.
--
Derek
Game info and change log: http://sporkhack.com
Beta Server: telnet://sporkhack.com
IRC: irc.freenode.net, #sporkhack
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> Patric Mueller wrote:
>>> The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
>>> players, both currently active and past players.
>> And what is the intention of gathering that information?
>
> question and will contact you with more information at a time and
> location yet to be determined, possibly involving a dark alley.
LOL :-) Great!
And I suppose they'll ask me a single question, then; "DYWYPI?" ;-)
Janis
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Patric Mueller wrote:
>>> The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
>>> players, both currently active and past players.
>> And what is the intention of gathering that information?
>
> The usual. Making pretty pictures from the data, being able to better
> focus the commercials to the target group, having hard data to
> scientifically disprove Ido's poll from last month. ;-)
Ah, okay :-)
> As a game developer it's important to know what the player base you're
> developing on looks like.
Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
(Just a thought.)
> Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions". Nevermind! (Hope you
get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
> [...]
>
> I am rather interested about the reasons people quit playing NetHack
> (this directly transfers into suggestions how to make your variant
> better)
I fear you wouldn't necessarily be able to "make it better" by a terse
response, likely just different. To enhance an already very good game
you'd certainly need more detailed experience and responses. But if you
think the responses will help in improvement, that's fine, of course.
> and if there's still a influx of new players to NetHack or do
> all new player got to Crawl and stay there (okay, we won't see those but there
> have already some people answered who play Crawl before coming to
> NetHack)?
Thanks for your explanations.
Janis
David Ploog
> Patric Mueller wrote:
>> Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
>
> Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
> up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
> base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions".
Interesting to see how easy it is to dismiss the work of others. Well
done, Janis!
> Nevermind! (Hope you get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
I have seen statistics carried out with a sample size of 5. I don't
understand why 250 would be something to sneeze at.
In case you are resistant to humour: the "scientifically accurate" is not
meant serious. But the 250 is definitely not the problem there, rather
lack of time and expertise.
David
Janis Papanagnou
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> Patric Mueller wrote:
>
>>> Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
>>
>> Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
>> up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
>> base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions".
>
> Interesting to see how easy it is to dismiss the work of others. Well
> done, Janis!
That was simple, given that there's only that small sample set. ;-)
No, seriously; you certainly notice yourself how significant the numbers
are if one says 1 out of 250 has/makes/does this-or-that. It's not only
the "250" but also the correlated problem that you partition that small
sample set in sets of even smaller numbers!
[BTW; the visible effect of those small sample sizes had been often
apparent in vigorous discussions here. In NH it leads to differences
between games that a few people here even neglect from time to time.]
To give you just an example of magnitude; we used numbers in the (small)
partitioned sets of magnitude 100-200, requiring partly immense sample
sizes, depending on the application context.
That said; Nethack is not scientific evaluation, so just accept what I
said ("the first question that popped up in my head was") as it was
written, no more, no less. We can discuss relevance, in case conclusions
will be drawn, later. Not that it matters.
>> Nevermind! (Hope you get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
>
> I have seen statistics carried out with a sample size of 5. I don't
> understand why 250 would be something to sneeze at.
Well, the difference in perception is probably that I've actually done
scientific statistical evaluations and think to know at least _a bit_
about what I am talking. Not that it matters much WRT the game of Crawl
or NH, I admit, but that thought is obvious if you've done statistics.
Don't get me wrong; there's no problem in collecting data to get some
insights. Drawing appropriate and sufficiently valid conclusions is a
completely different thing, though.
Your 5 samples must be apparently a joke. Even official (e.g. political)
polls hereabouts collect in some cases just 1000 samples; so any private
poll must not feel bad compared to those official folks that occasionally
do a much worse job, justified by a terse timeline, etc.
But, again, we're talking about a game.
> In case you are resistant to humour: the "scientifically accurate" is
> not meant serious.
(Not sure what you mean here. I haven't seen "scientifically accurate"
been mentioned by the other poster(s). Wasn't I the one saying something
WRT "significance"? Anyway. If your reply was meant humorous then I've
definitely spent too much time and bandwidth in responding ;-)
> But the 250 is definitely not the problem there,
Probably.
> rather lack of time and expertise.
???
Janis
Derek Ray
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
>> use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
>> relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
>
I cannot see how either of these are significant, though the latter may
be more so just for tourist-information (much like "which country do you
live in?" is, really).
I do not plan to make any major changes to the keyboard layout; I can't
think, offhand, of a better way to discourage Nethack players from
trying Spork than forcing them to relearn an entire new system of
keystrokes that I arbitrarily decided was "better".
David Damerell
>Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
>>use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
>>relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
People who use numpad shouldn't admit to it in polite company. :-)
I think country certainly has some interest. I've always been curious
about the large supply of Finns in NetHack circles.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
hept...@gmail.com
2. Which country do you live in?
3. Do you play locally, on a server or both?
4. Do you play Tiles or ASCII or both?
5. On which Operating Systems or Devices do you play NetHack?
6. Where did you get your copy of NetHack from?
7. Do you play a patched NetHack or variants of NetHack?
http://sarnath.heptapod.org/binary.rar
8. Which Roguelikes have you played before? (Crawl, ADOM, Angband,
etc.)
of Spork, have UnNetHack but mostly unplayed
9. Where did you learn about NetHack?
10. And when?
1998? I don't remember
11. How often did you win NetHack? (If never, you may specify your
best game.)
12. To what extent do you use spoiler for playing NetHack?
13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
quit?
other times I'll be arsed to play NetHack at all.
14. If you take part in the NetHack DevNull tournament: where did you
hear about it?
15. Did you ever recommend NetHack to someone?
polychorons and rich, multilayered symphonic sound incorporating
online real-time PvP and trading crap on ebay.
16. Which computer game other than NetHack did you play most in the
last three months (August, September, October)?
17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
the results of this poll.
the headers of this post
Ray
> Quoting Jukka Lahtinen <jtfj...@hotmail.com.invalid>:
>>Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
>>>use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
>>>relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
>>Maybe also "hjklyunb or numpad"..
>
> People who use numpad shouldn't admit to it in polite company. :-)
Heh. So, because you're not being polite, it's entirely okay
that I tell you I use the numpad? Okay, whatever.
Seriously: I want all those letter keys for other commands,
and arrows don't do diagonal movement. Hence, numberpad.
Bear
David Ploog
> On 2009-11-06, Jukka Lahtinen <jtfj...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
>>> use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
>>> relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
>>
>> Maybe also "hjklyunb or numpad"..
>
> I cannot see how either of these are significant
Agree that this is largely irrelevant. Much less important than tiles vs
ASCII or server vs local anyway.
> though the latter may be more so just for tourist-information (much like
> "which country do you live in?" is, really).
Not tourist information. Knowing where the game is (not) played is quite
interesting as a developer. The language question is one reason; another
is the absence of participants from Asia. Crawl is played there, so for
the next poll (think 2015, not 2010), we'll try to reach them, too.
This is similar to our question about other games. This is not just idle
curiosity. We are interested in this: Are roguelikes played because or
despite they are free?
David
Doug Freyburger
>
> After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
> downloaded at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/poll_results.txt) and in loose
> cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
> present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
>
> http://nethack-de.sf.net/poll.html
I was surprised when there were blanks for free form answers. I
expected drop downs with the most common expected choices.
Cool stuff.
Janis Papanagnou
> Patric Mueller wrote:
>>
>> Or fill out the online form on
>> http://nethack-de.sf.net/poll.html
>
> I was surprised when there were blanks for free form answers. I
> expected drop downs with the most common expected choices.
Dito. Patric will have a tough time condensing all the answers.
Janis
TheJoker
Or read the group... duh.
Ray
> This is similar to our question about other games. This is not just idle
> curiosity. We are interested in this: Are roguelikes played because or
> despite they are free?
The "Shiren the wanderer" series of roguelike games is quite popular, if
not quite mainstream, in Japan, and it's a commercial product.
Although they preserve the idea of permanent death, they have made
some concessions to being commercial and having mainstream gamers
expect to win with just a few weeks of effort. So you get inheritances.
Characters after the first one don't really start from nothing the
way they do in western roguelikes. They start by inheriting whatever
the previous character set aside for them, which can make them
effectively a first-level character with a 20th-level kit.
Thus, each game played can make subsequent games easier. Another
way to look at it is that the unit of the game is a succession or
clan rather than a lone adventurer.
Nethack went a bit this way too; Bones files make the game a lot
easier. But the Shiren games are even more extreme, because you
get your inheritance right from the start and you don't have to
uncurse it.
Bear
JRBrown
> After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
> cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
> present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
While reading the comments in this thread, and after having taken the
online poll, I realized that you might think that "when did you learn
about nethack" (question #10) has some relation to when the respondent
started *playing* nethack. In my case it didn't; I first heard about
nethack in college (around 1996-97) in connection with the Luggage
from Terry Pratchett's Discworld books (and that's what I put in the
poll), said "huh, whatever", and promptly forgot about it. I actually
started *playing* nethack in 2006; I no longer recall exactly but I
think the trigger was stumbling across the Dudley's Dungeon webcomic.
Dunno if that's relevant to what you guys hope to find out.
JRB
Richard Bos
> 1. What is your age and gender?
39M
> 2. Which country do you live in?
The Netherlands
> 3. Do you play locally, on a server or both?
Locally
> 4. Do you play Tiles or ASCII or both?
ASCII
> 5. On which Operating Systems or Devices do you play NetHack?
WinXP. Used to play on a Psion Revo, but alas, its power supply died.
> 6. Where did you get your copy of NetHack from?
The official site.
> 7. Do you play a patched NetHack or variants of NetHack?
Nope.
> 8. Which Roguelikes have you played before? (Crawl, ADOM, Angband,
> etc.)
Rogue, which is too hardcore for me to play it a lot; Angband and Moria,
which I didn't find very gripping; either Crawl or ADOM, I've forgotten
which, but it's the one with the two dozen or so gods, which I found too
inimical; and some silly derivatives set in, e.g., high-tech
environments, just for the fun of it.
> 9. Where did you learn about NetHack?
> 10. And when?
Don't remember, but I'd say a dozen years ago or so.
> 11. How often did you win NetHack? (If never, you may specify your
> best game.)
Often enough not to be bothered to count any more. Well into the double
figures, probably not into the triples.
> 12. To what extent do you use spoiler for playing NetHack?
Regularly, although the need to use them decreases (obviously) with
experience.
> 13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
> quit?
I play on and off. Sometimes I go months entertaining myself using other
means, and then I start up a game of NetHack for a change and off we go.
In fact, I've just started playing again (and dropped the chess, for
some reason which isn't clear even to me).
> 14. If you take part in the NetHack DevNull tournament:
No.
> 15. Did you ever recommend NetHack to someone?
Yup. Didn't work.
> 16. Which computer game other than NetHack did you play most in the
> last three months (August, September, October)?
Interactive fiction. Specifically, the annual IF Comp.
> 17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
> the results of this poll.
You mean they won't be posted here?
Richard
Richard Bos
> This is similar to our question about other games. This is not just idle
> curiosity. We are interested in this: Are roguelikes played because or
> despite they are free?
In my case, definitely because, but not only because.
More precisely: I _started_ playing NetHack because it was
a. recommended by a source I do not recollect right now, and b. free.
I am _still_ playing NetHack because, crucially, it is also c. very
good.
When faced with a non-free game, of any ilk, I consider whether I want
to spend my money on this game or would rather play chess, read a good
book, or buy some lamb mince (yum, koftas!) instead. I can't recall when
I last came across a game that convinced me to take the first option; it
is certainly a long time ago. The last computer game I did buy was a
gift, so it doesn't count.
When, by contrast, I can get a free game, I often download it, give it a
go or two, and then throw it away for being an amateurish attempt. But
hey, at least it was free, and once in a while you find a NetHack in the
dungheap.
Richard
JPEG
> After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
> cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
> present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
>
> The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
> players, both currently active and past players.
That's all very well, but the way your questions are phrased strongly
hints against past players being invited to take part. You might want
to emphasize that point some more, so people don't stop reading before
question 13. I'm pointing this out because at the IRDC you said that
you're particularly interested in reasons for players giving up on the
game, and I think you might have trouble getting that out of the
survey as it currently is. Otherwise, very cool, and I can't wait to
see the results.
I'll send you my own replies sometime later today or within the next
couple of days.
Good luck,
Johanna
Pieyed Piper
wrote:
>Ray wrote:
>> Seriously: I want all those letter keys for other commands,
>> and arrows don't do diagonal movement. Hence, numberpad.
>
>Because #untrapping is common, and you need to prefix with n? Hardly a
>good excuse. Great way to practice your vi!
>
>mandelbr0t
Just think Chaos...
lmfback
> David Ploog <pl...@mi.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> When faced with a non-free game, of any ilk, I consider whether I want
> to spend my money on this game or would rather play chess, read a good
> book, or buy some lamb mince (yum, koftas!) instead. I can't recall when
> I last came across a game that convinced me to take the first option; it
> is certainly a long time ago. The last computer game I did buy was a
> gift, so it doesn't count.
If you can't recall when you chose the first option you really aren't
gaming at all (or just abhorrently lazy :). A few years ago I switched
(mostly) from mainstream games to the cheaper (more fun) no-brand
produced stuff. I've been pleasently surprised by the quality. So, you
could consider these three and then see if you should start byuing
something again (won't dig up links):
Karoshi (Jesse Venbrux), puzzle type, both innovative and sometimes
surprisingly hard, looks "old" but the main point is the puzzles, free
although I did donate
Portal, this is just a very weird and odd game that totally hooks you,
at least until you get to the last level which is, well, surprising and
somewhat difficult, $20 I think
Plants vs Zombies, innovative enough to be just plain fun, note however
that the really good stuff is opened up as separate levels, the main
puzzles campaign is basically just teaching you stuff, $30 I think
Now, go and have some fun again. And none of these will take so long
you can't go back to nethack within a week or a month.
(and if someone here gets hooked on any of these, drop me a line, I
love to hear about people's reactions)
JPEG
wrote:
> Patric Mueller wrote:
> > Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
>
> Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
> up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
> base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions". Nevermind! (Hope you
> get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
I realize 250 does not seem a lot, but it's also nothing to sneeze at,
especially when you consider that Crawl got about 27000 downloads for
the last version, so we got a response of maybe ~1% of all players,
which is actually quite good. Also, there are statistics carried out
with much smaller samples, have to be if the base population is small,
as is the case for rare diseases etc. I agree that all further
divisions (by playing mode or whatever) reduce significance further
but the results are still interesting (though you have to be aware of
this when interpreting them), and I also think that the small sample
size is actually less of a problem than the results being heavily
skewed towards server players (ASCII, higher win rate) who were much
more likely to take part in the survey.
Just saying,
jpeg
Patric Mueller
> Patric Mueller wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Patric Mueller wrote:
>
>> As a game developer it's important to know what the player base you're
>> developing on looks like.
>
> Umm, wouldn't it then be better to ask "What type of keyboard do you
> use?" - instead of "Which country do you live in?" - which has some
> relevance in user interface, easy accessibility of commands, etc.
> (Just a thought.)
Like Derek I don't intend to change anything significant in the
keyboard layout (something like the qwertz_layout patch is another
issue).
The default keyboard layout is de-facto the US keyboard. Other window
ports already have to deal with that.
>> Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
>
> Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
> up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
> base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions". Nevermind! (Hope you
> get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
That's always a problem with such polls.
You certainly won't get everybody to answer and you most probably
won't get those that left it behind in disgust.
But at least you get some answers and the possibility of *interesting
and helpful* answers.
>> I am rather interested about the reasons people quit playing NetHack
>> (this directly transfers into suggestions how to make your variant
>> better)
>
> I fear you wouldn't necessarily be able to "make it better" by a terse
> response, likely just different. To enhance an already very good game
If most quitters say they quit because of another roguelike this would
have some meaning. But then you'd also make sure that you drive a away
people still playing by trying to appeal to those that already left!
It will depend on the answers but if this question wasn't in the list,
there wouldn't even be a chance to get something out of it.
> you'd certainly need more detailed experience and responses. But if you
> think the responses will help in improvement, that's fine, of course.
Because it's free-form, people tend to write as much as they want. One
writes "It became dull" with no further explanations and another one
writes several lines about that he plays with breaks and stopped just
at the moment but feels that he will return.
Patric Mueller
>
>> 17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
>> the results of this poll.
>
> You mean they won't be posted here?
Of course at least a pointer will be posted. It depends what format
the final results will be in.
Patric Mueller
> On Nov 6, 3:10�am, Patric Mueller <bh...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
>> downloaded athttp://crawl.akrasiac.org/poll_results.txt) and in loose
>> cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
>> present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
>>
>> The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
>> players, both currently active and past players.
>
> That's all very well, but the way your questions are phrased strongly
> hints against past players being invited to take part. You might want
> to emphasize that point some more, so people don't stop reading before
> question 13.
I announced the poll in some more obscure places (/me winks at IRC) to
being able to fiddle a bit with the questions after seeing the first
responses. Right now I'm not comfortable anymore with changing
anything with the questions.
I also think there are more questions than just nr 13 that are
applicable to former players.
But I've added a paragraph before the questions that explains in more
detail that also former players shall participate.
> I'm pointing this out because at the IRDC you said that
> you're particularly interested in reasons for players giving up on the
> game, and I think you might have trouble getting that out of the
> survey as it currently is. Otherwise, very cool, and I can't wait to
> see the results.
There are already quite a few answers from quitters. Interestingly,
mostly very young people.
> I'll send you my own replies sometime later today or within the next
> couple of days.
Thanks. You should write novel-length-Roguelike-based stories, judging
from the amount you write on a simple poll. :-)
JPEG
> I also think there are more questions than just nr 13 that are
> applicable to former players.
Yeah, I know. I was just skimming the questions and my first
impression was that my opinion wasn't applicable. If you hadn't
mentioned it at the IRDC I wouldn't have bothered to read the
introductory paragraph, even though I love answering to polls (as you
noticed).
> Thanks. You should write novel-length-Roguelike-based stories, judging
> from the amount you write on a simple poll. :-)
What? You think I went overboard? :)
Johanna
Janis Papanagnou
> On Nov 6, 2:17 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Patric Mueller wrote:
>>> Have you looked at the results from the Crawl poll?
>> Yes, I've inspected those results, and the first question that popped
>> up in my head was; "how could ~250 people be a significant statistical
>> base to draw sufficiently accurate conclutions". Nevermind! (Hope you
>> get a more extensive feedback with your poll.)
>
> I realize 250 does not seem a lot, but it's also nothing to sneeze at,
> especially when you consider that Crawl got about 27000 downloads for
> the last version, so we got a response of maybe ~1% of all players,
> which is actually quite good.
To emphasize the points again; a 1-in-250 ratio gives worse information
than a 100-in-25000 ratio, and a subset of the 1% participants must be
of significant magnitude to give relevant information. The fact that 1%
of all players participated is not saying anything about the conclusions
derived from the subset of those participants, which may be just 1 or 10,
WRT any specific question.
> Also, there are statistics carried out
> with much smaller samples, have to be if the base population is small,
> as is the case for rare diseases etc.
And, in consequence, the results carry huge uncertainties! We currently
see that with the pamdemia and the related statements/conclusions; it's
(hereabouts) more FUD and lobbyism than anything else.
> I agree that all further
> divisions (by playing mode or whatever) reduce significance further
> but the results are still interesting [...]
Granted.
Janis
Patric Mueller
Probably not for your case. David also send me an overly long answer.
It seems to run in the family. ;-D
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
On 2009-11-06, Patric Mueller <bh...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 1. What is your age and gender?
27F
> 2. Which country do you live in?
USA
> 3. Do you play locally, on a server or both?
Vast majority of play is on public servers.
> 4. Do you play Tiles or ASCII or both?
ASCII
> 5. On which Operating Systems or Devices do you play NetHack?
Primarily telnet from Linux, OS X, or smartphone
> 6. Where did you get your copy of NetHack from?
nethack.alt.org, although I keep source in my homedir Just In Case
> 7. Do you play a patched NetHack or variants of NetHack?
I've played Spork, Slash'EM, and I played with Grunthack for a bit.
Keep meaning to try UnNetHack at some point.
> 8. Which Roguelikes have you played before? (Crawl, ADOM, Angband,
> etc.)
Played significantly: Crawl, DoomRL, NetHack
Played a bit: Angband, ADOM, POWDER, Rogue, probably some others I am
forgetting
> 9. Where did you learn about NetHack?
As a frosh at MIT.
> 10. And when?
I guess that would be 2000.
> 11. How often did you win NetHack? (If never, you may specify your
> best game.)
When I was at my peak? Probably around ~50%, and probably around 40 wins.
> 12. To what extent do you use spoiler for playing NetHack?
I used to have a specific set of spoilers always open during November.
> 13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
> quit?
NetHack's challenge comes from learning the game; I have learned the game.
It is more exciting to go learn other games than to play variants or go
from 50% to 90%. In addition, NetHack makes my RSI worse than Crawl does
(thank you, autoexplore) and in general has an inferior interface. I
intend to try new variants and (hypothetical) versions that come out
but at this point I have probably drifted away. I think I basically
quit after the 2006 devnull tournament when I somehow got roped into
starting up a Crawl server.
> 14. If you take part in the NetHack DevNull tournament: where did you
> hear about it?
From Clan EIT, actually.
> 15. Did you ever recommend NetHack to someone?
Many times; I taught a NetHack workshop at MIT for a few years, which I hope
encouraged a lot of new players.
> 16. Which computer game other than NetHack did you play most in the
> last three months (August, September, October)?
Either Crawl or Peggle, not sure.
> 17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
> the results of this poll.
Thanks,
-r.
Kristoffer Björkman
says...
> In article <4af82dca...@news.xs4all.nl>, ral...@xs4all.nl says...
> > David Ploog <pl...@mi.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> > When faced with a non-free game, of any ilk, I consider whether I want
> > to spend my money on this game or would rather play chess, read a good
> > book, or buy some lamb mince (yum, koftas!) instead. I can't recall when
> > I last came across a game that convinced me to take the first option; it
> > is certainly a long time ago. The last computer game I did buy was a
> > gift, so it doesn't count.
> Portal, this is just a very weird and odd game that totally hooks you,
> at least until you get to the last level which is, well, surprising and
> somewhat difficult, $20 I think
And you can still make the "ascii/tiles" choice!
http://kotaku.com/5309667/its-portal-running-in-ascii
//
--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Arire cynl yrncsebt jvgu n havpbea.
Rob Cypher
wrote:
>
>After the big success of the Crawl poll in August (the results can be
>downloaded at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/poll_results.txt) and in loose
>cooperation with the Crawl developers responsible for that poll, we
>present you the "NetHack Poll 2009".
>
>
>The intention of this poll is to gather some information about NetHack
>players, both currently active and past players.
>
>This poll will run through the month of November. Afterwards the
>results will be released to the public.
>
>Please spread the word about this poll to other NetHack playing people
>you know.
>
>
>You can either directly reply to this mail and send it to
>netha...@gmail.com
>
>Or post it to rec.games.roguelike.nethack
>
>Or fill out the online form on
>http://nethack-de.sf.net/poll.html
>
>
> 1. What is your age and gender?
28, male
> 2. Which country do you live in?
USA
> 3. Do you play locally, on a server or both?
locally
> 4. Do you play Tiles or ASCII or both?
Tiles only. no time to memorize what the ASCII symbols are.
> 5. On which Operating Systems or Devices do you play NetHack?
Vista, XP
> 6. Where did you get your copy of NetHack from?
> 7. Do you play a patched NetHack or variants of NetHack?
Slash'em. the others no because there's no tiles or graphics version available.
> 8. Which Roguelikes have you played before? (Crawl, ADOM, Angband,
> etc.)
Crawl, Alphaman (obscure 90s roguelike)
> 9. Where did you learn about NetHack?
Usenet.
>10. And when?
1997.
>11. How often did you win NetHack? (If never, you may specify your
> best game.)
Never.
>12. To what extent do you use spoiler for playing NetHack?
somewhat often.
>13. If you no longer play NetHack regularly, why and when did you
> quit?
n/a
>14. If you take part in the NetHack DevNull tournament: where did you
> hear about it?
n/a
>15. Did you ever recommend NetHack to someone?
a few times
>16. Which computer game other than NetHack did you play most in the
> last three months (August, September, October)?
Starcraft, Stars!, many others
>17. Please specify a valid e-mail address if you would like to receive
> the results of this poll.
In my headers.
>Many thanks,
>Patric Mueller (lead developer of NetHack-De and UnNetHack)
>
>
>Note: Your e-mail address will not be shared with any third parties.
> After the poll is closed and the final results have been
> published all replies will be deleted.
--
Rob Cypher
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Capt. Cave Man
>Slash'em. the others no because there's no tiles or graphics version available.
You're an idiot.