YANI: artifact armor
Chaos Master
In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
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Sam Dennis
> [Subject: YANI: artifact armor]
> What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
This is not a new idea. This is not even a remotely new idea. Also,
one of the quest artifacts is already armour.
> In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
That other roguelike having something is not a good reason for us to.
> I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
If those thoughts only went as far as `wouldn't it be nice to have an
artifact that isn't in the boring weapon category; I know! I can post
a sketchy article to rgrn and someone is sure to fill in all the real
details and maybe even write a patch!' then you needn't have bothered
even considering posting.
On the other hand, if you have some details of specific artifacts you
should've at least tried to communicate them. If your ideas are well
thought-out enough, you could even simply write a patch yourself.
--
++acr@,ka"
Seraphim
news:slrnbj4p...@localhost.loopback:
> Chaos Master wrote:
>> [Subject: YANI: artifact armor]
>> What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
>
> This is not a new idea. This is not even a remotely new idea. Also,
> one of the quest artifacts is already armour.
Well, I consider wishing for quest artifacts to be shady at best (and
there are several quest artifact tools).
>> In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
>
> That other roguelike having something is not a good reason for us to.
Agreed!
>> I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
>
> If those thoughts only went as far as `wouldn't it be nice to have an
> artifact that isn't in the boring weapon category; I know! I can post
> a sketchy article to rgrn and someone is sure to fill in all the real
> details and maybe even write a patch!' then you needn't have bothered
> even considering posting.
I've personally always thought that a pair of gauntlets that allowed
digging (at the same speed as a pick-ax) would be nice. There would have
to be some effect vs. Earth E's, and probably some bad effects if you try
to pick up rocks.
> On the other hand, if you have some details of specific artifacts you
> should've at least tried to communicate them. If your ideas are well
> thought-out enough, you could even simply write a patch yourself.
>
Would anyone actually use such a patch?
Sam Dennis
> Sam Dennis <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote in
> news:slrnbj4p...@localhost.loopback:
>> Chaos Master wrote:
>>> I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
>> On the other hand, if you have some details of specific artifacts you
>> should've at least tried to communicate them. If your ideas are well
>> thought-out enough, you could even simply write a patch yourself.
>
> Would anyone actually use such a patch?
Hmm, maybe: it would seem to me if it is a good idea and correctly
balanced, it would be a candidate for inclusion into PatchHack, at
least; it might even be picked up by the devteam and become a part
of an official version.
Certainly using it alone wouldn't make a lot of sense, except as a
patch for multiple new (and sensible) artifacts.
--
++acr@,ka"
Steve Lefevre
"Chaos Master" <renan...@punks.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.199bd7b05...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
> In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
>
> I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
I thought it would be cool that if you had ascended players, their armor
would turn up as artifacts in future games. Like Olga the Valkyrie's
Gauntlets of Power. Or, if you had a really great character that died (say,
a monk that made it to Grand Master), then if you find his gloves or robe,
you get some kind of bonus with it, like one of his high stats.
Steve Lefevre
"Sam Dennis" <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote in message
news:slrnbj4p...@localhost.loopback...
> Chaos Master wrote:
> > [Subject: YANI: artifact armor]
> > What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
>
> This is not a new idea. This is not even a remotely new idea. Also,
> one of the quest artifacts is already armour.
>
> > In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
>
> That other roguelike having something is not a good reason for us to.
>
> > I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
>
> If those thoughts only went as far as `wouldn't it be nice to have an
> artifact that isn't in the boring weapon category; I know! I can post
> a sketchy article to rgrn and someone is sure to fill in all the real
> details and maybe even write a patch!' then you needn't have bothered
> even considering posting.
Chaos Master -
Sam woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Either that, or he
has no idea how the creative process works. All great ideas start out in a
fuzzy, nebulous stage. They mature and become great as more people absorb
and regurgitate them. They really require a lot of input and revision.
As you can see, from your idea, I posted a more fleshed-out version. I would
never had thought of it had I never heard your sketchy idea in the first
place. (And actually, I thought of it the first time I saw this idea posted,
which really was probably not the first time someone thought of it).
Steve
Martin Read
Seraphim <gm...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>Sam Dennis <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote in
>news:slrnbj4p...@localhost.loopback:
>> should've at least tried to communicate them. If your ideas are well
>> thought-out enough, you could even simply write a patch yourself.
>
>Would anyone actually use such a patch?
Lots of people use lots of different patches. Someone would certainly
use yours, I'm sure.
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | what is the one thing which encompasses undeniable truth,
\/ | unending love, and unyielding courage?
------+
Sam Dennis
> "Sam Dennis" <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnbj4p...@localhost.loopback...
>> Chaos Master wrote:
>>
>> [A rant, including some advice that I perhaps gave a slightly
>> unpleasant flavour to]
>
> Sam woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Erm, yes. Something like that. (I really abhor the heat.)
I still stand by the message, if not the medium. Sitting down and, just
for a few minutes, thinking rather than immediately running to the group
tends to eliminate many bad ideas and drastically improve the chances of
the good ideas being implemented.
> As you can see, from your idea, I posted a more fleshed-out version.
Well, really you posted a rather different idea that's also kind of old,
although not, I think, as old as artifact armour. It was rather sketchy
too, although you at least had the beginnings of an idea about what said
artifacts would do. (Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to implement than
a simple new artifact or ten, but quite possible if it becomes worth the
programmer's time.)
--
++acr@,ka"
Chaos Master
> ...
[cut thy message]
> If those thoughts only went as far as `wouldn't it be nice to have an
> artifact that isn't in the boring weapon category; I know! I can post
> a sketchy article to rgrn and someone is sure to fill in all the real
> details and maybe even write a patch!' then you needn't have bothered
> even considering posting.
Artifact dwarvish mattock:
Would made dwarves peaceful;
Dig pits in few turns;
Artifact tinning kit:
Gives the 'food apraisal' intrinsic (same as reading ?oFoodDet) when
invoked.
Tins made by this tinning kit are more nutritious.
Foo
> Artifact tinning kit:
> Gives the 'food apraisal' intrinsic (same as reading ?oFoodDet) when
> invoked.
> Tins made by this tinning kit are more nutritious.
What would you call it?
Martin Crisp
(in message <3f332...@news1.prserv.net>):
"Fowler's Vacola"
apart from the trademark issue...
The (real) Fowler's Vacola is a _bottling_ kit, usually used for
bottling stewed fruits or vegetables. Since it produces bottles the
contents are (reasonably) easy to determine & assess [making the
'food appraisal' much easier].
[link chosen for images, a bit slow loading...]
http://www.users.bigpond.com/oz-riley/fowlers1952book.html
Have Fun
Martin
Martin Read
Steve Lefevre <lefev...@osu.edu> wrote:
>Sam woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Either that, or he
>has no idea how the creative process works. All great ideas start out in a
>fuzzy, nebulous stage. They mature and become great as more people absorb
>and regurgitate them. They really require a lot of input and revision.
First rule of technical support: Before you can talk to a human, you
have to explain your problem to the teddy bear.
Likewise, first rule of ideas: Before you share your idea with a human,
explain it to your teddy bear.
Substitute your choice of inanimate object for the teddy bear.
SmileyByte
I remember this is something that was suggested before, and I think it
would be very cool, not only for adding (yet) more artifacts but by
adding a kind of 'legend' to nethack (names of best players would be
seem inside the game). The problems are:
1 - What kind of bonus?
2 - How to choose it?
3 - How to add this to the game? Adding another kind of bones files
(artifacts-only bones?) And how to load it?
For the 3rd problem, I see two approachs... one would be to create
another kind of bones file, a unique file, and every time one ascends
and the game decides it's time to create another artifact it would
just append that info to the file; and when the game decides it's time
for another (bones) artifact it would load the file and choose one.
Another approach is making different bones, one for each artifact
added; this way this system can be compatible with hearse.
For the 1st problem, I don't know... how to add yet more artifacts to
the game, without unbalancing the game? One possible solution is
making the bonus not too big. Your idea of confering the player one of
the artifact previous owner's stat would not be too unbalancing.
Another idea: it could only create artifacts based upon _magic_
objects (it makes sense if an used magic armour retained some
properties of its previous owner, right?).
But the real problem is the 2nd one... how to choose the type of
bonus. Sure, you can simply make it random, but then the 'coolness'
factor would be lost, not to say it would make no sense. Confering a
random stat: what stat Olga's GoP would confer? They already confer
Str 25. What to confer more? Ok, we can add a random effect, say a
resistance... but it would make no sense. Imagine that: "Here is Olga
the Valkyrie's Gauntlets of Power. Olga was a brave warrior that
ascended, and now its legendary GoP confer poison resistance to anyone
who uses them." Huh, cool, but why poison resistance? And we have the
same problem with all other magic armour.(*)
One idea (I think it was suggested before) is to make the artifact
confer some kind of bonus based upon what Olga did during her 'life';
but how to measure this? Counting how many poison-resistant monsters
Olga killed, and confering that resistance to her armour? Adding code
to count how many monsters of each type ould be so much trouble, apart
for the memory usage (counting it for each armour/tool etc.)
(*)Yeah, we can extend this by adding 'normal' armour to the list of
'artifactable' objects. But it would only duplicate what already
exists in the game. Creating an artifact such Grasshopper the Monk's
leather gloves that confer more strenght, for example, just duplicates
the already existing GoP.
To put it all short, it is a very nice idea, but what will be the
rules to create such artifacts?
SmileyByte
--
? a scroll (scroll of .sig)
DavidASim
>"Steve Lefevre" <lefev...@osu.edu> wrote in message
>news:<bguahn$da0$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
>> would turn up as artifacts in future games. Like Olga the Valkyrie's
>> Gauntlets of Power. Or, if you had a really great character that died (say,
>> a monk that made it to Grand Master), then if you find his gloves or robe,
>> you get some kind of bonus with it, like one of his high stats.
>But the real problem is the 2nd one... how to choose the type of
>bonus. Sure, you can simply make it random, but then the 'coolness'
>factor would be lost, not to say it would make no sense. Confering a
>random stat: what stat Olga's GoP would confer? They already confer
>Str 25. What to confer more? Ok, we can add a random effect, say a
>resistance... but it would make no sense. Imagine that: "Here is Olga
>the Valkyrie's Gauntlets of Power. Olga was a brave warrior that
>ascended
probably be 'Olga was a brave warrior who ascended by going to hell, killing a
whole bunch of demons, stealing the amulet and giving it to her god. Now you're
trying to do the same.' I suppose you could rationalise that Moloch stole it
again, but this does make a little less sense than, say, bones files.
d.
SmileyByte
Yes, I agree with you. It is just an example, you know :-)
Gabriele Neukam
said...
(artifact tinning kit)
> >
> > What would you call it?
>
> "Fowler's Vacola"
> apart from the trademark issue...
>
> The (real) Fowler's Vacola is a _bottling_ kit, usually used for
> bottling stewed fruits or vegetables. Since it produces bottles the
> contents are (reasonably) easy to determine & assess [making the
> 'food appraisal' much easier].
In Germany there is the "Weck" system, glasses of various sizes that can
be filled with fruit or vegetables, and will be heated. We have even
adopted the term "einwecken" for "preserving in Weck glasses".
That means: either the fruit is already cooked and hot when filling it
into freshly cleaned jars (nearly to the brim), which will then be
closed with a screwing lid and turned upside down to prevent air from
coming back in.
Or all glasses will be set into an oven or the "Weck" pot, together with
a certain amount of water that will provide enough hot vapour to make it
work. The air in the glasses will expand by the heat, leave them, and
after having them cooled down, the glasses are vacuum sealed.
When using the large oven glasses, the lids are attached firmly with
clamps, and they even have rubber rings between vessel and lid, to make
them airtight.
I guess Fowler's Vacola does work mainly the same way, but if you are
afraid of any brand name issues, just replace it with "Weck". I don't
believe the company will sue you, they would rather think it is
something funny.
Gabriele Neukam
--
Ah, Information. A good, too valuable theses days, to give it away, just
so, at no cost.
Big Al
>
Instead of making new artifacts, save the items same as they are, as a
legends side quest. Not required, but worth the effort to some players,
getting a +5 GDSM from the Demi-God Foo's quest, without wishing, and
this would be a special level load like the other ones in there now.
Each class/race/alignment could set up slightly different challenges and
give a different legend's reward. These would be findable from the AK of
the ascended hero and spread thoughout the DoD by Monsters who do not
know there true worth but still protect them with thier lives :> .
Big Al in Seattle
tomandcatherine
"Sam Dennis" <s...@malfunction.screaming.net> wrote
> Chaos Master wrote:
> > [Subject: YANI: artifact armor]
> > What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
>
> This is not a new idea. This is not even a remotely new idea. Also,
> one of the quest artifacts is already armour.
>
even a remotely new idea, it remains a neat idea.
It would be nice to have some artifact armor that's not a quest artifact.
Not necessarily a lot, but maybe one or two pieces.
Martin Crisp
(in message <bh0ugr$nki$04$1...@news.t-online.com>):
> On that special day, Martin Crisp, (Spam....@tesseract.com.au)
> said...
>
> (artifact tinning kit)
>>>
>>> What would you call it?
>>
>> "Fowler's Vacola"
>> apart from the trademark issue...
[...]
> In Germany there is the "Weck" system, glasses of various sizes
> that can be filled with fruit or vegetables, and will be heated.
> We have even adopted the term "einwecken" for "preserving in
> Weck glasses".
Doesn't work as well for 'Fowlers' [cf fouler]. :-)
> That means: either the fruit is already cooked and hot [...]
>
> Or all glasses will be set into an oven or the "Weck" pot,
> together with a certain amount of water that will provide enough
> hot vapour to make it work. The air in the glasses will expand
> by the heat, leave them, and after having them cooled down, the
> glasses are vacuum sealed.
>
> When using the large oven glasses, the lids are attached firmly
> with clamps, and they even have rubber rings between vessel and
> lid, to make them airtight.
This latter is identical (down to the clamps & rings) to the Fowler
process (or it is identical to Weck, as case may be).
> I guess Fowler's Vacola does work mainly the same way, but if
> you are afraid of any brand name issues, just replace it with
> "Weck". I don't believe the company will sue you, they would
> rather think it is something funny.
I can't see why Fowlers would be upset - but companies are like
that sometimes :-)
[Searching the web I can't actually find an official Fowlers
website, though the company was still around in 2002 - buying a
bakery concern (Big Sister) from SIMPLOT Aust.]
Have Fun
Martin
Moi
> "Steve Lefevre" <lefev...@osu.edu> wrote in message news:<bguahn$da0$1...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>...
> > "Chaos Master" <renan...@punks.net> wrote in message
> > news:MPG.199bd7b05...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > > What about adding artifact armor items/tools?
> > > In Slash'EM, there are the Gauntlets of Defense for monks, at least.
> > >
> > > I thought about an artifact pick-axe/magic marker/etc...
> >
> > I thought it would be cool that if you had ascended players, their armor
> > would turn up as artifacts in future games. Like Olga the Valkyrie's
> > Gauntlets of Power. Or, if you had a really great character that died (say,
> > a monk that made it to Grand Master), then if you find his gloves or robe,
> > you get some kind of bonus with it, like one of his high stats.
>
>
> For the 1st problem, I don't know... how to add yet more artifacts to
> the game, without unbalancing the game? One possible solution is
> making the bonus not too big.
>
Am I the only one who thinks that adding more artifacts, as long as
you're careful enough to add artifacts of all levels of power,
auto-balances itself? Sure, we'll have more options, but that will
make it harder to get what we want. Say I want Mjollnir; It would be
easier to get it out of 20 artifacts than out of 40. Also, if more
artifacts generate the artifact counter is increased and that is
considered bad.
Chaos Master
> smile...@bertelli.cjb.net
> (SmileyByte) wrote in
> message news:<2b7d7f2c.03080...@posting.google.com>...
> Am I the only one who thinks that adding more artifacts, as long as
> you're careful enough to add artifacts of all levels of power,
> auto-balances itself? Sure, we'll have more options, but that will
> make it harder to get what we want. Say I want Mjollnir; It would be
> easier to get it out of 20 artifacts than out of 40. Also, if more
> artifacts generate the artifact counter is increased and that is
> considered bad.
IMHO, there could be something like "can't wish for quest artifacts" to
balance the game. And quests artifacts in bonesfiles would turn to
normal objects.
Boudewijn Waijers
> "tomandcatherine" <tomandc...@comcast.net> writes:
>> The N in YANI can stand for either "new" or "neat".
> Generally in this newsgroup it is supposed to mean "new".
Actually, not "neat" but "nifty". From the FAQ:
YANI: Yet Another New (Nifty) Idea (Item).
Someone has an idea for an improvement or addition to
the game.
--
Boudewijn Waijers (bwaijers at tiscali.nl).
Men think about sex about once every seven seconds,
leaving only 6 seconds for football.
- Jo Brand, British stand-up comedienne.