What would a monk wish for?
Janis Papanagnou
but HP:85 and AC:-6 not very good, especially for the Monk's quest.
The early game passed, have speed boots, gloves, helm, robe, a small
shield, and in my bag of holding a shirt. Martial arts at Expert, but
wielding the +5 Frostbrand seems more effective. Have reflection "AoR
from a fountain dip wish granting demon. My concern is how to get MR;
body armor probably not yet be advantageous(?), replacing the robe by a
cloak of MR would make my spell casting very bad, wishing for artifacts
is a no-no for me. There's two yet unsused thrones. I'm clueless what
to wish for in case I get one. I seem not to be missing anything really
necessary (but MR). To take out Kaen I probably should have free action.
What would you wish for? A magic marker to enchant the armor? Or better
proceed with dungeon exploration and come back later? Without MR I'm
also worried a bit about polytraps.
Janis
JoaoSantos
wrote:
I usually leave Kaen for after Gehennom, unless I really need MR. If
you go to Kaen first be sure to have a lot of HP and =FA or MR.
As for wishes, if you get one extra wish [MR would be a good bet, even
if you end up giving it up later. ?geno are also good since if you
take out L MR becomes less important.
If you get an unexpected wish and don't feel there is a particular
thing you really need, then MM is probably the best bet.
solidsnail
Janis Papanagnou
> On Nov 21, 9:40 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Playing a monk, currently XL:13, a lousy Int and Cha, other stats okay,
>> but HP:85 and AC:-6 not very good, especially for the Monk's quest.
>> The early game passed, have speed boots, gloves, helm, robe, a small
>> shield, and in my bag of holding a shirt. Martial arts at Expert, but
>> wielding the +5 Frostbrand seems more effective. Have reflection "AoR
>> from a fountain dip wish granting demon. My concern is how to get MR;
>> body armor probably not yet be advantageous(?), replacing the robe by a
>> cloak of MR would make my spell casting very bad, wishing for artifacts
>> is a no-no for me. There's two yet unsused thrones. I'm clueless what
>> to wish for in case I get one. I seem not to be missing anything really
>> necessary (but MR). To take out Kaen I probably should have free action.
>> What would you wish for? A magic marker to enchant the armor? Or better
>> proceed with dungeon exploration and come back later? Without MR I'm
>> also worried a bit about polytraps.
>
> you go to Kaen first be sure to have a lot of HP and =FA or MR.
Okay; I've nothing of that. :-/ So I would proceed deeper, but...
Situation got yet more difficult. Medusa is the titan level. Usually I
push boulders into the water to build a safe path to cross the sea. In
this game, there happened to be a polytrap in the mid of that path, so
I cannot (no MR, no PolyControl!) cross it. Two scrolls of earth is the
minumum to build a pathway (and I had just two), now I'd require more
scrolls to build an alternative path. My wand of cold is empty, but I
could recharge it. I could dig down and use my one potion of levitation
for the way back. (I'm pondering what to do... - maybe take a break :-)
> As for wishes, if you get one extra wish
Not yet, but I'll try the two thrones.
> [MR would be a good bet, even if you end up giving it up later.
Yes, makes sense.
> ?geno are also good since if you take out L MR becomes less important.
I've a single geno scroll.
> If you get an unexpected wish and don't feel there is a particular
> thing you really need, then MM is probably the best bet.
You mean the spellbook, I suppose.
Or a ring of levitation to get an option for the above mentioned problem.
The wishes are not guaranteed, anyway. I'll see how it evolves...
Janis
hept...@gmail.com
wrote:
Monk's quest can be easy. After hearing about how Kaen hits fast and
hard I was a bit disappointed that making a boulder fort and throwing
stones at him is a completely viable and successful strategy. Eyes of
the Overworld are awesome as an artifact and they make Gehennom a
breeze. Get to XL14, do the quest and cast the first stone against
Kaen. You'll love the MR but come back for the astral vision.
Most times I end up wasting a wish on anything which confers
levitation.
Janis Papanagnou
>
> Monk's quest can be easy. After hearing about how Kaen hits fast and
> hard I was a bit disappointed that making a boulder fort and throwing
> stones at him is a completely viable and successful strategy.
No more scrolls of earth, meanwhile, so boulder fort is currently
no option.
> Eyes of
> the Overworld are awesome as an artifact and they make Gehennom a
> breeze. Get to XL14, do the quest and cast the first stone against
> Kaen.
I'm XL:14 now, had a peek into Kaen's lair, but retreated.
> You'll love the MR but come back for the astral vision.
>
> Most times I end up wasting a wish on anything which confers
> levitation.
No throne, including a third one at Ludios gave a wish. So any
wishes have to be delayed until the Castle.
And I noticed two amulets of unchanging in my inventory (not sure
whether I've missed them in my inventory or whether I've got them
later - both on the same on the same level, BTW), so I could pass
the polytrap without problem. Though I wasted some boulders before,
so I had to dig down anyway. But I don't worry too much, because
a Ludios soldier gave me another wand of cold, so the way back is
guaranteed. Incidentally there were also Perseus' boots in his
statue, so that problem should have some options meanwile.
Problem might be another titan below Medusa that seems to be blocking
my way down and those (potential) purple L's at the Castle.
Quest is now delayed for later... - *if* I survive the next levels
without MR...
Janis
Spon II
wrote:
> JoaoSantos wrote:
> > If you get an unexpected wish and don't feel there is a particular
> > thing you really need, then MM is probably the best bet.
>
> You mean the spellbook, I suppose.
I took this to mean a magic marker, rather than magic missile. That
would sort out your lack of earth scrolls, and maybe boost your AC a
bit.
BTW, why is your shirt in the bag and not on your back?
I remember being in a similar position once, - too many artifacts,
needed MR, too attached to the robe - and lucked out by finding the
Eye in a bones pile (thanks to hearse). Not sure, but I think that
was the game where Kaen still managed to kill me - due to absolute
carelessness on my part. YASD.
spontiff
JoaoSantos
> On Nov 21, 11:27 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > JoaoSantos wrote:
> > > If you get an unexpected wish and don't feel there is a particular
> > > thing you really need, then MM is probably the best bet.
>
> > You mean the spellbook, I suppose.
>
> I took this to mean a magic marker, rather than magic missile. That
> would sort out your lack of earth scrolls, and maybe boost your AC a
> bit.
indeed; also: more ?Geno since it is already identified
solidsnail
JoaoSantos
wrote:
> > I usually leave Kaen for after Gehennom, unless I really need MR. If
> > you go to Kaen first be sure to have a lot of HP and =FA or MR.
>
> Okay; I've nothing of that. :-/ So I would proceed deeper, but...
Actually, and I had forgotten this for a moment, if you have a
/oCancellation, a sucessfull zap at Kaen makes him much less scary.
I do realize /oC are no common, but if you happen to have one, it
makes a ton of difference [no more clerical spells, which is from
where the paralysis attack comes, from - I think].
solidsnail
Janis Papanagnou
Thanks for clarifying. It turned out later that I haven't got any more
wishes from the mentioned dungeon features, and the Castle wand was 0:1.
Later, in Gehennom, I found two magic markers.
Janis
Janis Papanagnou
> On Nov 21, 11:27 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> I usually leave Kaen for after Gehennom, unless I really need MR. If
>>> you go to Kaen first be sure to have a lot of HP and =FA or MR.
>> Okay; I've nothing of that. :-/ So I would proceed deeper, but...
>
> Actually, and I had forgotten this for a moment, if you have a
> /oCancellation, a sucessfull zap at Kaen makes him much less scary.
I've had no cancellation at that time. (Meanwhile found one wand.)
But Kaen is high level (25?), and I've got the impression that high
level monsters won't be affected easily by such cancelling attacks.
> I do realize /oC are no common, but if you happen to have one, it
> makes a ton of difference [no more clerical spells, which is from
> where the paralysis attack comes, from - I think].
This time I followed the path as mentioned by heptapod; a boulder fort
from a blessed scroll of earth and a stack of 130+ blessed rustproof
poisoned +7 darts. (The huge amount and the poisoning wasn't necessary,
of cource, but I decided for the darts as an optional ranged weapon,
so I manufactured a bunch to use for the rest of the game.)
Janis
Link
wrote:
Is it possible for you to get a cloak of MR, and just switch it with
the robe when you need it to cast spells? I personally would use the
next wish on the cloak.
Your only other option appears to be body armor, which some people say
is ok if you have a maxed out luckstone, but I'd rather not do it.
The -20 hit penalty is bad, and that is on top of the -4 hit penalty
you might have from using Frostbrand. If you are really high level,
then it might be more appealing, but at XL 13 I wouldn't try it.
And I personally would get MR as soon as possible. It just seems too
dangerous to ignore it. If you really don't like any of your MR
options, then I would at least wish for a ring of polymorph control to
protect against polymorph traps, and then use the next wish on a wand
of polymorph (if you don't have one already). This is because
controlled polymorph can semi-replace MR, assuming you have enough
time to polymorph before you get whacked with a touch of death. The
alternative would be to carry around some potions of hallucination,
and use those to help protect against a touch of death.
JoaoSantos
wrote:
> JoaoSantos wrote:
> > Actually, and I had forgotten this for a moment, if you have a
> > /oCancellation, a sucessfull zap at Kaen makes him much less scary.
>
> I've had no cancellation at that time. (Meanwhile found one wand.)
> But Kaen is high level (25?), and I've got the impression that high
> level monsters won't be affected easily by such cancelling attacks.
well, Kaen is. If he wasn't I would have even a bigger problem killing
in on certain conduct games. In any case I just wiztested: ^G Kaen 3
times; each time wake him up, zap once a /oC and check status with
stethoscope. On all 3 times he got cancelled at first zap. I don't
know if dexterity has anything to do with zaps success, but if it has,
I have to mention that I probably had dex maxed since it was a saved
game.
> This time I followed the path as mentioned by heptapod;
hey: with Kaen, whatever works!
solidsnail
Aardvark Joe
> On Nov 23, 5:07 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> JoaoSantos wrote:
>> > Actually, and I had forgotten this for a moment, if you have a
>> > /oCancellation, a sucessfull zap at Kaen makes him much less scary.
>>
>> I've had no cancellation at that time. (Meanwhile found one wand.)
>> But Kaen is high level (25?), and I've got the impression that high
>> level monsters won't be affected easily by such cancelling attacks.
>
> well, Kaen is. If he wasn't I would have even a bigger problem killing
> in on certain conduct games. In any case I just wiztested: ^G Kaen 3
> times; each time wake him up, zap once a /oC and check status with
> stethoscope. On all 3 times he got cancelled at first zap. I don't
> know if dexterity has anything to do with zaps success, but if it has,
> I have to mention that I probably had dex maxed since it was a saved
> game.
The chance for a monster to resist a zap from a /oC is
(monster mr value)
--------------------------
100 + 12 - (monster level)
Master Kaen's base mr value is only 10, and his base level is 25, so
the chance of him resisting is about 11.5%; or put the other way, the
chance of successfully cancelling him is around 88.5%. It will be
a little bit better if you're high level and using the cancellation
spell instead, but the difference is only a couple percent.
Of course, this doesn't stop him from hitting you really hard, but
at least he'll stop casting spells.
James
> On Nov 21, 4:40 pm, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
[...]
> Your only other option appears to be body armor, which some
> people say is ok if you have a maxed out luckstone, but I'd
> rather not do it. The -20 hit penalty is bad,
It depends. I've played monks where even with the -20 penalty,
my chances of hitting were 100%. In that case, who cares?
> and that is on top of the -4 hit penalty you might have from
> using Frostbrand. If you are really high level, then it might
> be more appealing, but at XL 13 I wouldn't try it.
I agree there. You definitely need more than XL13. (Of course,
at XL13, you have absolutely 0% chance of encountering Kaen.
But even at XL14... The one time I met him, I was XL30, AC-39
wearing GDSM, and wielding a +7 Grayswandir. And frankly, in
those conditions, I didn't find him a big deal. One can argue
that I wasn't really playing to role, but hey, when the RGN
gives, you take.)
--
James Kanze
Janis Papanagnou
>
> Is it possible for you to get a cloak of MR, and just switch it with
> the robe when you need it to cast spells? I personally would use the
> next wish on the cloak.
I considered that option; it sounds reasonable. Got no wish, though.
> Your only other option appears to be body armor, which some people say
> is ok if you have a maxed out luckstone, but I'd rather not do it.
> The -20 hit penalty is bad,
The constant appearing "Your armor is rather cumbersome..." messages are
yet worse than the penalty. ;-)
> and that is on top of the -4 hit penalty
> you might have from using Frostbrand.
Frostbrand came from a sacrifice gift, so my skill got Basic (with zero
to-hit penalty) quite fast. The -20 is severe, but it was sufficiently
compensated by maxed luck. Later I enchanted some gauntlets of dexterity
for an additional to-hit bonus[*].
[*] Though the annoying messages were still the same. It would be a
nice feature if those messages were only emitted when it really matters.
(Or maybe even to adjust the message frequency depending on the actual
to-hit probability.)
> If you are really high level,
> then it might be more appealing, but at XL 13 I wouldn't try it.
I went, actually, for GDSM and the +7 Frostbrand. The reason was that a
gray dragon in the mazes between Medusa and the Castle left some scales.
> And I personally would get MR as soon as possible. It just seems too
> dangerous to ignore it.
Yeah, at that point (Medusa/Castle level) it's scary to not have MR.
> If you really don't like any of your MR options,
Oh, I like those options; I just didn't have them available. :-)
> then I would at least wish for a ring of polymorph control to
> protect against polymorph traps, and then use the next wish on a wand
Wishes were spare at that point. My next wish was from the Castle wand,
actually.
> of polymorph (if you don't have one already). This is because
> controlled polymorph can semi-replace MR, assuming you have enough
> time to polymorph before you get whacked with a touch of death.
Good point. (Don't recall whether I had =PolyControl or /Poly.)
> The
> alternative would be to carry around some potions of hallucination,
> and use those to help protect against a touch of death.
Those potions (or specific fungi) help, I know. But I find the side
effects from hallucination too bad to feel worth considering that as
a shining option - that would be something like a last resort for me.
Janis
Janis Papanagnou
> On Nov 23, 6:46 pm, Link <chillyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> and that is on top of the -4 hit penalty you might have from
>> using Frostbrand. If you are really high level, then it might
>> be more appealing, but at XL 13 I wouldn't try it.
>
> I agree there. You definitely need more than XL13. (Of course,
> at XL13, you have absolutely 0% chance of encountering Kaen.
:-)
> But even at XL14... The one time I met him, I was XL30, AC-39
> wearing GDSM, and wielding a +7 Grayswandir.
With the boulder fort/missile tactics you don't need any of those
preconditions (besides XL:14 for admittance), BTW. It's the melee
with Kaen that hurts.
Despite the boulder barrier I think I had been XL:16 and AC:~30(?).
The HP buffer was more of a concern for me than XL or some more AC;
I mean in case of meleeing him.
Janis
James
wrote:
> >> and that is on top of the -4 hit penalty you might have
> >> from using Frostbrand. If you are really high level, then
> >> it might be more appealing, but at XL 13 I wouldn't try it.
> > I agree there. You definitely need more than XL13. (Of
> > course, at XL13, you have absolutely 0% chance of
> > encountering Kaen.
> :-)
> > But even at XL14... The one time I met him, I was XL30,
> > AC-39 wearing GDSM, and wielding a +7 Grayswandir.
> With the boulder fort/missile tactics you don't need any of
> those preconditions (besides XL:14 for admittance), BTW. It's
> the melee with Kaen that hurts.
Yes. The one time I encountered him, however, I'd gotten
Grayswandir from a sacrifice, had stumbled on a bones with GDSM,
and had encountered even more wraiths than usual. And it was
only about the third or fourth time I'd gotten far enough to do
the quest with any character. I wasn't really prepared to meet
him; I was still exploring the level above him, and fell through
a trap to him (IIRC---this was some time ago), ending up almost
adjacent to him. After a wack or two, he disappeared, and since
I didn't feal ready to take him on, I went up stairs... and
found him there. In a panic, I wacked once more, and he was
dead. I was probably very lucky, but I didn't find him all that
terrible.
> Despite the boulder barrier I think I had been XL:16 and
> AC:~30(?). The HP buffer was more of a concern for me than XL
> or some more AC; I mean in case of meleeing him.
The HP buffer and AC work together. I was still pretty naive
when I met him, and playing a Monk more or less like I would a
Valk. But my earlier luck meant that it was actually working
out for me pretty well.
I figured that when the RGN gave me Grayswandir early on, it was
trying to tell me something. I'd also been very lucky with the
potions and scrolls I'd found, so I had an AC of around -40, and
Grayswandir at +7. And with an AC of around -40, even the hard
hitters don't do that much damage.
Since then, I've never managed to get a Monk down below about
level 10.
--
James Kanze