Possible new exploit to boost maxhp and maxpw (spoily)
Jaakko Salomaa
which I could make my stats low enough, level drain myself, then
make them high enough and gain an xp level to boost maxhp and maxpw.
This is a long post, I'll try to explain this thoroughly. I tried to
search the group to see if this has been discussed before but I
couldn't find anything, so I decided to write this post.
Now I have managed to make a test game at Fishpool's public nethack
server - see http://pp.fishpool.fi/~nethack/ - to test my theory.
I decided to play a tourist because of PYEC and the abundance of the
items in the quest. I was originally planning to make two helms of
brilliance of which other one would be -5 and other +5, but I found
out that the difference isn't enough.
Now I have these items and a spell to aid myself in my quest:
a - the blessed fireproof +6 Staff of Aesculapius (weapon in hands)
k - an uncursed fireproof +2 dunce cap
B - a blessed rustproof +5 helm of brilliance (being worn)
V - a blessed fireproof +5 robe (being worn)
q - an uncursed -5 ring of gain constitution
Q - an uncursed +6 ring of gain constitution (on right hand)
p - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
My current stats:
Jaakko the Voyager St:18/90 Dx:23 Co:24 In:23 Wi:23 Ch:18
Neutral
Dlvl:31 $:1057 HP:667(667) Pw:42(387) AC:-42 Xp:22/20000474 T:79100
I use copypasted strings to accomplish the set of operations that are
required to make this exploit work. The first one takes off the good
items and puts on the bad ones. After using that, I check quickly
that the stats are down, and then use another one that will level
drain myself with the Staff of Aesculapius by throwing it on my head,
remove the bad ring and put on the good one.
After that, I'll cast remove curse manually until successful - the
fail% is 44 when I have the dunce cap on, poor tourist me - and when
I feel that someone is helping me, I take off the dunce cap, wear the
helm of brilliance and find any monster to kill.
I will now copypaste all messages from a successful round:
HP:667(667) Pw:42(387), Co:24 In:23
What do you want to remove? [QWX or ?*]
You were wearing an uncursed +6 ring of gain constitution (on right
hand).
What do you want to put on? [cflqxENOQ or ?*]
q - an uncursed -5 ring of gain constitution (on right hand).
What do you want to take off? [BHJV or ?*]
You finish taking off your helmet.
What do you want to wear? [kB or ?*]
You finish your dressing maneuver.--More--
The dunce cap glows black for a moment.--More--
You feel like sitting in a corner.
# OK, I'm ready to level drain myself.
Co:13 In:6
What do you want to throw? [$ab or ?*]
In what direction?
The blessed fireproof +6 Staff of Aesculapius almost hits the
ceiling, then
falls back on top of your head.--More--
The Staff of Aesculapius drains your life! Aloha level 22.--More--
Your dunce cap does not protect you.--More--
The blessed fireproof +6 Staff of Aesculapius hits the floor.
You are blasted by the Staff of Aesculapius' power!--More--
a - the blessed fireproof +6 Staff of Aesculapius.
What do you want to wield? [- abes or ?*]
You are blasted by the Staff of Aesculapius' power!--More--
a - the blessed fireproof +6 Staff of Aesculapius (weapon in hands).
# Now I'm Jaakko the Journeyer, xp-lvl 21. Time to remove the bad
# items.
What do you want to remove? [qWX or ?*]
You were wearing an uncursed -5 ring of gain constitution (on right
hand).
What do you want to put on? [cflqxENOQ or ?*]
Q - an uncursed +6 ring of gain constitution (on right hand).
Choose which spell to cast
You feel like someone is helping you.
What do you want to take off? [kHJV or ?*]
You finish taking off your helmet.
What do you want to wear? [kB or ?*]
You finish your dressing maneuver.
# That's better! Now off to find something to kill. Not going to
# waste my precious pw points to cast create monster.
You kill the elf-lord! Welcome to experience level 22.
HP:671(671) Pw:29(392)
So, that's about it, from 667,387 to 671,392 Sometimes I get one pw
point, sometimes even seven, and thanks to the copypaste "macros",
it's really fast to make one round as long as I have mana.
Now this setting isn't of course very optimal, I think the easiest
class to use this might be wizard, and it's not necessarily easy to
gatherthe items required to make this work. Anyway, my tourist has
already gained something like 150 power points with this, I would
call that a considerable boost.
--
May you live long and prosper
Jaakko Salomaa
jorge estrada
> Greetings. I have had this idea for a while to create a game in
> which I could make my stats low enough, level drain myself, then
> make them high enough and gain an xp level to boost maxhp and maxpw.
Man, this is a whole lot of trouble just for 150 pw. I can get pw up
to about 300-600 without even trying by using the castle wishes for
magic markers and reading confused scrolls of charging. One priest
had about 1300 pw just by doing that. If you need more than 1300 pw
though, i guess this is one way to get it.
Jorge
Jym
Yeah, but think about it:
There's a guy in the dungeon, with a flashy hawaian shirt and some silly
pointed hat that is trying to learn to juggle and gets hit every time by
his own staff.
Monsters should be throwing coins just for the show...
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Jaakko Salomaa
> Jaakko Salomaa wrote:
maxpw.
>
> Man, this is a whole lot of trouble just for 150 pw. I can get pw up
> to about 300-600 without even trying by using the castle wishes for
> magic markers and reading confused scrolls of charging. One priest
> had about 1300 pw just by doing that. If you need more than 1300 pw
> though, i guess this is one way to get it.
You are correct, but I'd like to make a few points. First of all, this
method boosts both maxhp and maxpw. 150 pw was just a beginning.
Second, I didn't claim that the method would really have been very
handy, not at least in the test scenario. It was more like a proof of
concept. I was trying to proof that you can pump your maxhp and maxpw
up _without any material cost and limitlessly_, and I think I proved
that.
I do acknowledge that it might well be that this trick is useless in
real life games (hohohoh, nethack and real life).
Boudewijn Waijers
> I was trying to proof that you can pump your maxhp and maxpw
> up _without any material cost and limitlessly_, and I think I proved
> that.
Actually, this trick is an old trick from the game of moria, where it
was called the "grape jelly trick".
In moria, there was an immobile monster, the grape jelly, which drained
levels if you stood next to it. The trick was to just gain levels with
low constitution, save up on potions of gain constitution, wait until
you had lots of those, then let a grape jelly drain you to level 1,
quaff the potions, then quaff a potion of restore life levels. You'd now
gain the new levels with your new and improved constitution, resulting
in many more HP than before.
--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).
The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
David J. Grabiner
> Jaakko Salomaa wrote:
>
> > I was trying to proof that you can pump your maxhp and maxpw
> > up _without any material cost and limitlessly_, and I think I proved
> > that.
>
> Actually, this trick is an old trick from the game of moria, where it
> was called the "grape jelly trick".
>
> In moria, there was an immobile monster, the grape jelly, which drained
> levels if you stood next to it. The trick was to just gain levels with
> low constitution, save up on potions of gain constitution, wait until
> you had lots of those, then let a grape jelly drain you to level 1,
> quaff the potions, then quaff a potion of restore life levels. You'd now
> gain the new levels with your new and improved constitution, resulting
> in many more HP than before.
Angband, and later versions of Moria, fixed this problem; your hit
points are adjusted when your constitution changes, so the trick is not
needed.
In Nethack, the problem is worse than in Moria, because the hit points
lost when you go down a level are affected by your constitution. In
Moria, you lose a fraction of your hit points, independent of your
current constitution, so all the grape jelly trick will do for a level
35 chartacter is let you get the normal hit points you would have if you
had maximum constituion at level 35.
--
David Grabiner, grab...@alumni.princeton.edu, http://remarque.org/~grabiner
Baseball labor negotiations FAQ: http://remarque.org/~grabiner/laborfaq.html
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.
Boudewijn Waijers
> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kro...@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
>> Actually, this trick is an old trick from the game of moria, where it
>> was called the "grape jelly trick".
> Angband, and later versions of Moria, fixed this problem; your hit
> points are adjusted when your constitution changes, so the trick is
> not needed.
I know. I actively participated in some minor way in the development of
Moria. We used to e-mail quite a lot, in the eighties. I think I made a
lot of comments on the item lists, especially, when moria was at about
version 5.2. The grape jelly trick had been abolished by then.
> In Nethack, the problem is worse than in Moria, because the hit points
> lost when you go down a level are affected by your constitution. In
> Moria, you lose a fraction of your hit points, independent of your
> current constitution, so all the grape jelly trick will do for a level
> 35 chartacter is let you get the normal hit points you would have if
> you had maximum constituion at level 35.
I realise that. I think a solution might be to make the spell of drain
level and Stormy and the Staff of Aesculapius not drain you to one EXP
below the minimum for your current level, but to, say, halfway the
previous XP level.
That way, the "safe" ways to repeatedly drain a level would still be
possible, but killing a single monster wouldn't automatically get you
back to your previous level.
Wraiths and foocubi should still drain you to (current XP's EXP
minimum) - 1, I guess. With them around, the risk of losing two levels
in succession is too big to take, and in that case, getting back to your
previous level is not as easy.
Adam Borowski
> I realise that. I think a solution might be to make the spell of drain
> level and Stormy and the Staff of Aesculapius not drain you to one EXP
> below the minimum for your current level, but to, say, halfway the
> previous XP level.
>
> That way, the "safe" ways to repeatedly drain a level would still be
> possible, but killing a single monster wouldn't automatically get you
> back to your previous level.
>
> Wraiths and foocubi should still drain you to (current XP's EXP
> minimum) - 1, I guess. With them around, the risk of losing two levels
> in succession is too big to take, and in that case, getting back to your
> previous level is not as easy.
This isn't enough for a fix. In fact, when I discovered this bug
several months ago, I used a vampire to get drained. Indeed, throwing
Stormy upwards is safer, and drain life is a low-level spell, but with
the ability to teleport, vampires can't really drain you twice in a row.
And even if shit happens, all it takes is a single !oFH.
Anyway, when I reported this to the DevTeam, I suggested storing the
increases as you gain levels, so when you lose them, the game can take
away the correct amount of maxhp/maxen instead of making up some values.
A patch is here:
http://nethack.angband.pl/vampdance.patch
1KB