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Question about illiterate conduct.

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John Q. Smith

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Mar 9, 2002, 12:27:34 AM3/9/02
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Why does reading an unlabeled scroll break the illiterate conduct?
There's nothing there to read... Can't engrave just 'x's, either
[someone said that you could, but they must've been refering to
something other than 3.3.0].


Sam Dennis

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Mar 9, 2002, 1:09:14 AM3/9/02
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John Q. Smith wrote:
> Why does reading an unlabeled scroll break the illiterate conduct?

It doesn't.

> There's nothing there to read... Can't engrave just 'x's, either

Nor does this.

> [someone said that you could, but they must've been refering to
> something other than 3.3.0].

...like 3.3.1, the _current_ version?

Actually, on a related note, could anyone explain to me the rationale behind
being able to read identified scrolls while blind?

--
r@,,+2 'a,kd"

Mark Grant

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Mar 9, 2002, 1:20:43 AM3/9/02
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On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 06:09:14 +0000 (UTC), s...@malfunction.screaming.net
(Sam Dennis) wrote:


>Actually, on a related note, could anyone explain to me the rationale behind
>being able to read identified scrolls while blind?


Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
they just can't be picked up while you're blind.
-- Mark Grant

Mark the Slacker St:6 Dx:14 Co:7 In:17 Wi:-3 Ch:-10 Chaotic
Dlvl:Home 1 $1500 HP:42(42) Pw:0(0) Ac:10 Exp:1 T:11632320

All ideas expressed herein are the express expression of a
leprachaun named Eddy, and have no bearing on anything,
whatsoever.

Irina Rempt

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Mar 9, 2002, 11:42:22 AM3/9/02
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Mark Grant <qal...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
> to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
> can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
> they just can't be picked up while you're blind.

Have you tried picking up scrolls while blind? Come on, go and do it.

Did you succeed? No? What variant are you playing?

*Reading* scrolls you've picked up while blind, or seeing which one it is if
you haven't seen that particular one (the actual instance, not the same kind
of scroll) before, now, that's another thing.

Please don't post misinformation.

Raisse, killed by burning scrolls

--
Yes, I'm really Raisse the Thaumaturge. That's my mundane name up there.

Tobias Wolter

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Mar 9, 2002, 12:22:03 PM3/9/02
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s...@malfunction.screaming.net (Sam Dennis) writes:

> Actually, on a related note, could anyone explain to me the rationale behind
> being able to read identified scrolls while blind?

Compare "You read the scroll" with "You pronounce the words written on
the scroll". Latter doesn't require you to read it if you know what's
on it.

-towo

Intoxicated astral medic

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Mar 9, 2002, 9:59:57 PM3/9/02
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On 09 Mar 2002 18:22:03 +0100, Tobias Wolter <sirto...@mail.com>
wrote:

Hmm if just reading the words is all that is needed;

Thalor, Elven Wizard

Read what? E - A blessed scroll of genocide
What do you want to genocide? L
You repeat the magic words -more-
What do you want to genocide? h
You repeat the magic words -more-
What do you want to genocide? c
You repeat the magic words......

--
Sir Nobody the Mandrid drone St:6 Dx:17 Co:12 In:18 Wi:6 Ch:7 Chaotic
Dlvl:-1 $1249 HP:26(26) Pw:14(15) Ac:7 Exp:4 T:170499120 Conf

Kassandra Velez

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Mar 9, 2002, 9:17:38 PM3/9/02
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Intoxicated astral medic said into the tin can on that end of the string:
<scrolls when blind, "you just need to know what's on it">

>Read what? E - A blessed scroll of genocide
>What do you want to genocide? L
>You repeat the magic words -more-
>What do you want to genocide? h
>You repeat the magic words -more-
>What do you want to genocide? c
>You repeat the magic words......

Fallacy. Unlike with a spell, the power is in the scroll; the words are
just a key to get the scroll to do its thing. Once the scroll has done its
thing, it disintegrates.

Remco Gerlich

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Mar 9, 2002, 9:29:52 PM3/9/02
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Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote in rec.games.roguelike.nethack:

> Mark Grant <qal...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
> > to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
> > can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
> > they just can't be picked up while you're blind.
>
> Have you tried picking up scrolls while blind? Come on, go and do it.
>
> Did you succeed? No? What variant are you playing?
>
> *Reading* scrolls you've picked up while blind, or seeing which one it is if
> you haven't seen that particular one (the actual instance, not the same kind
> of scroll) before, now, that's another thing.

I believe he meant that, and wrote it in a somewhat obfuscated way.

--
Remco Gerlich

Mark Grant

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Mar 9, 2002, 9:34:42 PM3/9/02
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On 09 Mar 2002 16:42:22 GMT, Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote:

>Mark Grant <qal...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
>> to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
>> can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
>> they just can't be picked up while you're blind.
>
>Have you tried picking up scrolls while blind? Come on, go and do it.
>
>Did you succeed? No? What variant are you playing?
>
>*Reading* scrolls you've picked up while blind, or seeing which one it is if
>you haven't seen that particular one (the actual instance, not the same kind
>of scroll) before, now, that's another thing.
>
>Please don't post misinformation.

I didn't post misinformation, you simply misinterpretted what I was
saying. Perhaps it would be more clear if I had said "can't HAVE BEEN
picked up while you were blind".

Essentially what I was trying to convey is that the object cannot be
'a scroll' without any apparent text as is the case if you pick up a
scroll while blind..

I'm sorry if my phrasing was a little ambiguous but given the context
I don't think it was excessively so. Read everything else I said and
I'm pretty sure it's clear that I'm not really saying that you're
unable to pick up a scroll off the ground while you're blind.

Jason Short

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Mar 10, 2002, 4:56:26 AM3/10/02
to

Heh. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on in this thread...

I think Nobody (IAM) was pointing out the fallacy in such reasoning:
there must be more than merely words involved in reading the scroll.
This is (more or less) explained by:

Mark Grant wrote:
> Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
> to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
> can invoke it.

--
Jason Short

Sam Dennis

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Mar 10, 2002, 5:04:07 PM3/10/02
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Mark Grant wrote:
> Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
> to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
> can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
> they just can't be picked up while you're blind.

I don't know what you're thinking of regarding not being able to pick up
things while you are blind, but if you try to read an unidentified scroll
while blind, you "cannot read the formula on the scroll".

--
r@,,+2 'a,kd"

Mark Grant

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Mar 10, 2002, 5:32:55 PM3/10/02
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Still not what I meant.

Sam Dennis

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Mar 10, 2002, 5:47:23 PM3/10/02
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Mark Grant wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:04:07 +0000 (UTC),
> s...@malfunction.screaming.net (Sam Dennis) wrote:
>>Mark Grant wrote something that I (apparantly) misinterpreted about reading
>>scrolls while blind.

>
> Still not what I meant.

Then why not spare us (and by `us', I mean `me') the suspense by simply saying
what you mean? Preferably with the relevant portions of code, to fully
eradicate ambiguity.

--
r@,,+2 'a,kd"

Mark Grant

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Mar 10, 2002, 7:47:59 PM3/10/02
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On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:47:23 +0000 (UTC),
s...@malfunction.screaming.net (Sam Dennis) wrote:

>Mark Grant wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:04:07 +0000 (UTC),
>> s...@malfunction.screaming.net (Sam Dennis) wrote:
>>>Mark Grant wrote something that I (apparantly) misinterpreted about reading
>>>scrolls while blind.
>>
>> Still not what I meant.
>
>Then why not spare us (and by `us', I mean `me') the suspense by simply saying
>what you mean? Preferably with the relevant portions of code, to fully
>eradicate ambiguity.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:34:42 GMT, Mark Grant <qal...@nycap.rr.com>
wrote:

>On 09 Mar 2002 16:42:22 GMT, Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote:
>

>>Mark Grant <qal...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Scrolls are objects of power.. You need to have a scroll, and you need
>>> to know what words are on the scroll, if you know both of those, you
>>> can invoke it. They don't need to be identified, for that matter,
>>> they just can't be picked up while you're blind.
>>

>>Have you tried picking up scrolls while blind? Come on, go and do it.
>>
>>Did you succeed? No? What variant are you playing?
>>
>>*Reading* scrolls you've picked up while blind, or seeing which one it is if
>>you haven't seen that particular one (the actual instance, not the same kind
>>of scroll) before, now, that's another thing.
>>
>>Please don't post misinformation.
>
>I didn't post misinformation, you simply misinterpretted what I was
>saying. Perhaps it would be more clear if I had said "can't HAVE BEEN
>picked up while you were blind".
>
>Essentially what I was trying to convey is that the object cannot be
>'a scroll' without any apparent text as is the case if you pick up a
>scroll while blind..
>
>I'm sorry if my phrasing was a little ambiguous but given the context
>I don't think it was excessively so. Read everything else I said and
>I'm pretty sure it's clear that I'm not really saying that you're
>unable to pick up a scroll off the ground while you're blind.
>
>

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