need advice
McColgst
never been this far before, so I'd figure id give it a rest and ask
for some advice before I continue to Gehennom.
I have:
blessed rustproof +0 Excalibur
blessed +5 Grayswandir
+2 blessed cloak of magic resistance
thouroughly burnt +3 small shield
+2 blessed crested helmet
+2 blessed gauntlets of power
+2 blessed silver dragon scale mail
+2 blessed speed boots
cloak of displacement
I did the protection racket
AC: -25
I have a couple wands of death, fire, lightning
+1 ring gain constitution
unihorn
luckstone
blessed water
ring of 'protection from shape changers'
magic marker (with no charges) :(
I have the scroll of charging identified, but i dont have any scrolls
of charging.
intrinsics:
fire
shock
cold
sleep
poison
209 HP
I did the quest.
Other than a couple potions I have no way to levitate, and I didnt
find a shirt (well I found one but I got polyd and ended up losing
it). I have more ench weapon scrolls and a few more ench armor
scrolls. How can I get more AC? Or is that enough?
What else should I have? Where can I go? I feel like I pretty much
discovered everything but I still need more things to ascend. I've
never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
Thanks,
McColgan
Bleeko Bleeko
> What else should I have? Where can I go? I feel like I pretty much
> discovered everything but I still need more things to ascend. I've
> never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
> before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
> is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
Looks like you are reasonably well prepared to me. You didn't mention
class, so I am guessing something lawful and fighter-ish. If you
cleared the castle and valley, you should be able to handle the mazes
too. I suggest that you start working your way downward, and
hopefully you will find what you are still missing. You do need
some form of levitation, hopefully a ring or boots somewhere in the
mazes. A ring of free action is also on the short list. A little
more enchantment on that armor couldn't hurt ... why not bless those
scrolls and see if you can't get some of those pieces to +4.
- Bleeko
McColgst
> class, so I am guessing something lawful and fighter-ish.
Oops! I'm a Valkyrie.
Okay, so I'll head down to Gehennom and just hope for the best!
Thanks!
McColgan
Janis Papanagnou
> So I just cleared out the castle and the Valley of the Dead. I've
> never been this far before, so I'd figure id give it a rest and ask
> for some advice before I continue to Gehennom.
>
> I have:
> I did the quest.
>
> Other than a couple potions I have no way to levitate, and I didnt
> find a shirt (well I found one but I got polyd and ended up losing
> it). I have more ench weapon scrolls and a few more ench armor
> scrolls. How can I get more AC? Or is that enough?
Your AC is enough, but if you have scrolls left you can use them of
course. If your armor is not beyond +3 then it's safe to enchant it
*once* more, so that using a blessed scroll will lead to either a +4
or a +5 piece of armor. Before you read the scrolls make sure that
you've removed all armor that is already beyond +3, otherwise it may
vaporize.
With you enchant weapon scrolls it's similar; the limit there is +5,
beyond that only a single scroll should be read. Use Grayswandir (if
you're not restricted) as primary weapon.
> What else should I have?
Luck! :-)
> Where can I go?
Deeper down into Gehennom. ;-)
> I feel like I pretty much
> discovered everything but I still need more things to ascend. I've
> never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
> before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
> is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
You seem to have the basics. There are some more things I'd like to have,
like a stethoscope. But you don't seem to need it. Some full healing is
always good to have. To prevent bad surprises an amulet of life saving
might be nice.
Janis
Doug Freyburger
>
> So I just cleared out the castle and the Valley of the Dead. I've
> never been this far before, so I'd figure id give it a rest and ask
> for some advice before I continue to Gehennom.
>
> I have:
> blessed rustproof +0 Excalibur
> blessed +5 Grayswandir
So you're lawful but you don't mention what class.
> +2 blessed cloak of magic resistance
> thouroughly burnt +3 small shield
Based on the shield I'll guess a valkyrie. If you're a valkyrie I
wonder why you don't have a dozen or so highly enchanted fireproof elven
daggers in your quiver and skill level of expert. Multi-fired missile
attacks by many highly enchanted elven daggers will beat anything you
can manage in melee even with Grayswandir.
I also wonder that you keep the shield and you don't have a highly
enchanted dual-wield non-artifact weapon. A blessed fireproof +6 elven
broadsword or blessed rustproof +6 katana combined in melee combat does
damage fast enough that you won't miss the AC from the shield.
Especially not a heavily damaged shield that only gives you a couple
of points. And doubly especially not when you soften up the heavy
monsters with some volleys of multi-fired blessed fireproof +6 elven
daggers before getting to melee range.
> +2 blessed crested helmet
Not identified? Go for those blessed ?oID.
> +2 blessed gauntlets of power
I prefer dexerity to power in nearly every case. Without Mjollnir I
think you should too.
> +2 blessed silver dragon scale mail
> +2 blessed speed boots
>
> cloak of displacement
I'm fussy about MC#3 cloaks so I'd wear the [oMR almost exclusively and
keep this one in the bag.
> I did the protection racket
> AC: -25
>
> I have a couple wands of death, fire, lightning
> +1 ring gain constitution
Likely not worth the hunger to wear this ring. It does not speed
recovery enough to save you in a pinch. It just increases your healing
enough that you get into pinches more often.
> unihorn
> luckstone
Those two items need to be blessed.
> blessed water
> ring of 'protection from shape changers'
> magic marker (with no charges) :(
>
> I have the scroll of charging identified, but i dont have any scrolls
> of charging.
>
> intrinsics:
> fire
> shock
> cold
> sleep
> poison
I very much like the pairs teleportitus plus teleport control and
invisible to others plus see invisible. I like to get see invisible
from a fountain after having finished the mines. If you have a tinning
kit tin up a stalker and then the next stalker you kill eat it and then
the tin immediately afterwards to give you both of the invisible
pairing. Then get a spare mummy wrapping in the bag in case you need to
be seen by a monster that doesn't already see invisible.
> 209 HP
> I did the quest.
>
> Other than a couple potions I have no way to levitate, and I didnt
> find a shirt (well I found one but I got polyd and ended up losing
> it). I have more ench weapon scrolls and a few more ench armor
> scrolls. How can I get more AC? Or is that enough?
For early ascensions over prepared is better prepared for me. More AC
is good. I like to fix most of my armor items and get them to +4 or +5.
For a valkyrie I don't think it is worth doing a create-monster
altar-dance praying sacrifest for more AC.
> What else should I have?
It may be worth assorted wishes. There are plenty of wish suggestions
in various spoilers. Maybe even blessed rustproof +3 athame and bring
it up to +5/6 as a spare weapon. I've even used it as a dual wield with
valkyries in the late game so it's quicker to use for the E-word.
> Where can I go?
You've checked for Ludios for extra dragon scales?
> I feel like I pretty much
> discovered everything but I still need more things to ascend.
You're wearing a helmet that is not IDed so you definitely have stuff to
discover. You know it's not a helm of brilliance. ;^)
> I've
> never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
> before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
> is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
Collection the items that will be needed in the planes. Don't wake
Rodney until you've found the vibrating square. Look for amulets of
reflection and life saving. Rings of slow digestion and free action.
McColgst
I'm pretty much stuck now, no teleport control ring, no /opoly for
polypiling,
no way to get teleport control (all tengu are peaceful)
I have no veggies or tripe rations,
I forgot (or broke) my orb of fate,
and I plugged all the holes in the castle.... doh...
I guess i'm gonna look for some tripe rations, tame a cat or something
and try to get teleport control by eating tengus.... I dont really
know what else to do at this point.
McColgst
> I guess i'm gonna look for some tripe rations, tame a cat or something
> and try to get teleport control by eating tengus.... I dont really
> know what else to do at this point.
Well, I finally got TC and managed to get to gehennom, this place is
pretty extreme, and I lost my bag of holding, my holy water, my death
wands, etc so it's gonna be a rough ride....
David Damerell
>no way to get teleport control (all tengu are peaceful)
Kill 'em. The alignment penalty for killing a peaceful monster is trivial
if you are also killing hostile monsters, especially late in the game
where your max alignment is high.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Saturday, December - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Sunday, December - a weekend.
APLer
news:f0d85fb7-1695-4454...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
> So I just cleared out the castle and the Valley of the Dead. I've
> never been this far before, so I'd figure id give it a rest and ask
> for some advice before I continue to Gehennom.
>
> I have:
> blessed rustproof +0 Excalibur
> blessed +5 Grayswandir
>
> +2 blessed cloak of magic resistance
> thouroughly burnt +3 small shield
> +2 blessed crested helmet
> +2 blessed gauntlets of power
> +2 blessed silver dragon scale mail
> +2 blessed speed boots
>
Fooproof and blessed enchant all external armor. Sure you have devine protection
*now*, but one never knows when one might pray at the wrong time.
> cloak of displacement
>
> I did the protection racket
> AC: -25
>
> I have a couple wands of death, fire, lightning
> +1 ring gain constitution
> unihorn
> luckstone
> blessed water
> ring of 'protection from shape changers'
> magic marker (with no charges) :(
>
> I have the scroll of charging identified, but i dont have any scrolls
> of charging.
>
> intrinsics:
> fire
> shock
> cold
> sleep
> poison
>
Clairvoyance too one would hope by now. You should also be looking for
disintegration as well. Just to be safe. There's also see invisible. Use
a wand of enlightenment on yourself to make sure of the above.
> 209 HP
> I did the quest.
>
> Other than a couple potions I have no way to levitate, and I didnt
> find a shirt (well I found one but I got polyd and ended up losing
> it). I have more ench weapon scrolls and a few more ench armor
> scrolls. How can I get more AC? Or is that enough?
>
> What else should I have? Where can I go? I feel like I pretty much
> discovered everything but I still need more things to ascend. I've
> never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
> before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
> is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
Did you find Ludios or determine it didn't exist? The only solution to
not having things is to look harder and make several stashes for them. I
usually leave a chest beside the up stairs every 5 levels. then you can
transfer up and down as required.
McColgst
apart, and I was too slow to bring out my /oD from my BoH and I
foolishly didn't have expert in a ranged weapon such as daggers,
either of which would have really saved me. Oh well, so close to my
first ascension. I'm really happy with how far I made it. Thanks for
the help guys.
APLer
news:f1381db7-34a6-458f...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
Nothing wrong with making that it far for your first time to Hell.
Richard Bos
> McColgst wrote:
> > +2 blessed crested helmet
>
> Not identified? Go for those blessed ?oID.
It's charged, so if it were a HoBrill it would've been identified. It's
not likely to be a HoAlign, and while it _may_ be a HoTelepathy, in both
cases the OP would probably know already. Therefore, it's most likely a
plain helmet.
> > +2 blessed gauntlets of power
>
> I prefer dexerity to power in nearly every case. Without Mjollnir I
> think you should too.
Especially with Mjollnir you should. With Mjollnir and STR 25, one can
throw it, but that is IMO not an advisable strategy. It's not _very_
likely to get lost that way, but when it is, that's a major problem: not
only do you need another weapon yourself, but some other monster may use
it against you.
Generally speaking, I want GoPow only when I'm a race that can't get to
18/** strength itself, and not a spellcaster. For the rest, I prefer
GoDex, like you.
For dwarves and humans, the difference between 18/** and 25 STR is nil,
while that between 18/50 and 25 is +2 hit bonus and +3 damage (and for
elven STR 18/00, another extra damage point above that). For characters
which want to cast spells, GoP are not really an option until later in
the game anyway. The bonus DEX is equally welcome for everybody, and
does not come with a downside.
This leaves GoPow as a reasonable choice only for gnomish Arcs, orcish
Barbs, gnomish Cavs, gnomish Heas, non-human Rans, and orcish Rogs.
Elven priests and non-human Wizs can't use them, and the others don't
need them.
Note that GoPow are especially irrelevant for Valks: their quest
provides a nearly inexhaustible stream of giants, which means that
getting your strength to 18/** is easy.
> > cloak of displacement
>
> I'm fussy about MC#3 cloaks so I'd wear the [oMR almost exclusively and
> keep this one in the bag.
I'm not that bothered about the difference between MC3 or displacement.
With one, you get hit less often; with the other, you don't get the
worst effects as often when you do get hit. Displacement is probably
more useful if you are adept at keeping the monsters guessing even while
you are hitting them yourself, but I'm not.
However, the important thing here is that the MC3 cloak is not just any
MC3 cloak, but a [oMR. Te OP has no other source of MR that I can see.
And MR is, IMO, more important than both MC3 and displacement.
> > unihorn
> > luckstone
>
> Those two items need to be blessed.
The luckstone only against the risk of it getting cursed: if you have
only the one, and non-negative luck, there is no difference between it
being uncursed or blessed. The unicorn horn certainly should be blessed,
though.
> I very much like the pairs teleportitus plus teleport control and
> invisible to others plus see invisible. I like to get see invisible
> from a fountain after having finished the mines. If you have a tinning
> kit tin up a stalker and then the next stalker you kill eat it and then
> the tin immediately afterwards to give you both of the invisible
> pairing. Then get a spare mummy wrapping in the bag in case you need to
> be seen by a monster that doesn't already see invisible.
These monsters being mostly (actually, nearly only) shopkeepers.
> > 209 HP
> > I did the quest.
> >
> > Other than a couple potions I have no way to levitate, and I didnt
> > find a shirt (well I found one but I got polyd and ended up losing
> > it). I have more ench weapon scrolls and a few more ench armor
> > scrolls. How can I get more AC? Or is that enough?
>
> For early ascensions over prepared is better prepared for me. More AC
> is good. I like to fix most of my armor items and get them to +4 or +5.
> For a valkyrie I don't think it is worth doing a create-monster
> altar-dance praying sacrifest for more AC.
If you're AC -25 already, you needn't worry about a shirt.
The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
planes.
> > I've
> > never ascended before and I'm really much farther than I've ever been
> > before (I think I made it to medusa once before this), so all of this
> > is fairly new content to me. Any advice?
>
> Collection the items that will be needed in the planes. Don't wake
> Rodney until you've found the vibrating square. Look for amulets of
> reflection and life saving. Rings of slow digestion and free action.
SD is useful not so much in-game as for player ease of mind - it means
one fewer thing to worry about, and it can be worn almost with impunity.
I very much like it myself as well, but if I don't get one, I just pay
more attention to my hunger status and carry on with the game. Ascending
without it is very much possible. The ones to look out for are conflict,
levitation, teleport control and free action - but the latter is only
really important for the Astral Plane, IMO.
Richard
Janis Papanagnou
>
> The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
> necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
> intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
> planes.
Besides the special proficiency of riding, and besides polymorph self,
are there other means to substitute levitation on the Plane of Air?
Since you mentioned "other intrinsics"; would jumping work on Air?
Janis
Richard Bos
> Richard Bos wrote:
>
> > The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
> > necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
> > intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
> > planes.
>
> Besides the special proficiency of riding, and besides polymorph self,
> are there other means to substitute levitation on the Plane of Air?
The only one that I can think of is hiding inside another moving monster
(by preference not an air elemental...) and letting it move you most of
the way. I've never had to resort to this, and wizmode tests suggest
that it is a veritable arse-ache, but it is reputed to work as a last
straw. Riding and polyself into a flyer should both work, though. I'm
not sure that the latter is entirely advisable, but that's another
matter.
> Since you mentioned "other intrinsics"; would jumping work on Air?
Nope.
Richard
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Richard Bos wrote:
>>
>>> The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
>>> necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
>>> intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
>>> planes.
>> Besides the special proficiency of riding, and besides polymorph self,
>> are there other means to substitute levitation on the Plane of Air?
>
> The only one that I can think of is hiding inside another moving monster
> (by preference not an air elemental...) and letting it move you most of
> the way. I've never had to resort to this, and wizmode tests suggest
> that it is a veritable arse-ache, but it is reputed to work as a last
> straw.
Uh-oh! I really wouldn't do that or rely on that.
> Riding and polyself into a flyer should both work, though. I'm
> not sure that the latter is entirely advisable, but that's another
> matter.
Hmm.. - the latter seems okay to me. I've been lately watching those "fast
ascenders", and they seem to do pretty well as a master mind flayer.
Janis
Thomas Pornin
> Riding and polyself into a flyer should both work, though. I'm not
> sure that the latter is entirely advisable, but that's another matter.
I have recently ascended a (chaotic) Wizard polymorphed as a Vampire
Lord, it turned out to be quite easy. Quite easier than ascending as
a human/elf wizard, even.
Polymorphing "permanently" as a Vampire Lord has a few quirks:
-- You need to keep an amulet of unchanging on, so no other amulet,
and you have to be a bit wary of stealing monsters.
-- The base max HP of a Vampire Lord is quite lower than what you
usually have at the point you polymorph, so you'd better hoard potions
of *healing, and alchemy-bless-drink them after the polymorph.
-- If your god is not chaotic, then you cannot pray anymore.
-- Since the Vampire Lord has a bite attack, cockatrices must not
be engaged in melee.
On the other hand:
-- Ten extra points of AC.
-- Flying.
-- No breathing.
-- Drain-life resistant.
-- Extra drain-life attack.
-- Totally immune to the touch of death, and also to the touch of Death
(which leads to an Astral Plane strategy in which you wear a ring of
conflict and stick to Death).
-- 18/** strength (quite handy for elven wizards).
Now I am trying to ascend as a Balrog, dual-wielding Stormbringer and a
bullwhip. I am trying it as a Rogue or Barbarian, since Wizard would be
too easy (MR through the quest artifact, powerful ranged attacks), and
without wishing for artifacts. My last attempt got toasted by a master
mind flayer: now I know that a master mind flayer with a wand of speed
is strictly faster than a balrog with speed boots.
(A balrog has horns, hence no helmet.)
The challenge here is that a balrog cannot wear body armor, so no MR,
and no Reflection either (since the neck is used for an amulet of
unchanging). Fortunately, balrogs are immune to the "common" touch
of death (but not the one from Death).
I consider the challenge to be met if the permanent polymorph is
acquired before entering the castle. Also, such an Angel of Destruction
shall be crowned and kill everybody, including shopkeepers(*) and
aligned priests. Just as a matter of style.
(*) Izchak may live.
--Thomas Pornin
Pat Rankin
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Richard Bos wrote:
>>> The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
>>> necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
>>> intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
>>> planes.
>>
>> Besides the special proficiency of riding, and besides polymorph self,
>> are there other means to substitute levitation on the Plane of Air?
>
> The only one that I can think of is hiding inside another moving monster
> (by preference not an air elemental...) and letting it move you most of
It's possible to simply walk across that level, although
each step has only 25% of successfully moving, so that's both
tedious and dangerous (monsters have a lot of time to swarm to
your location when 75% of the time you waste a turn and stay
in the same spot).
Recoil from throwing works too, as long as you throw
something other than gold. But instead of interleaving your
recoil with normal monster movement, the game makes you float
N squares one after another, then freezes you in place at the
destination for N turns, so recoil may not be much better than
attempting ordinary movement.
Doug Freyburger
> Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> McColgst wrote:
>
>> I prefer dexerity to power in nearly every case. Without Mjollnir I
>> think you should too.
>
> Especially with Mjollnir you should. With Mjollnir and STR 25, one can
> throw it, but that is IMO not an advisable strategy. It's not _very_
> likely to get lost that way, but when it is, that's a major problem: not
> only do you need another weapon yourself, but some other monster may use
> it against you.
>
> Generally speaking, I want GoPow only when I'm a race that can't get to
> 18/** strength itself, and not a spellcaster. For the rest, I prefer
> GoDex, like you.
Given the choice between leather gloves and gaunlets of power I'll pick
power for almost any combat wombat character. Given the choice between
gaunlets of power and dexterity gloves I'll pick dexterity in most of
the cases you discuss.
> For dwarves and humans, the difference between 18/** and 25 STR is nil,
> while that between 18/50 and 25 is +2 hit bonus and +3 damage (and for
> elven STR 18/00, another extra damage point above that). For characters
> which want to cast spells, GoP are not really an option until later in
> the game anyway. The bonus DEX is equally welcome for everybody, and
> does not come with a downside.
Having a robe cancels the disadvantage of power effecting spell casting.
Or a helm of brilliance. For a late game character already neared maxed
out going with robe and brilliance and high level even high level spells
can stay at 0% failure with power. Such a character is probably already
maxed out in skill and luck as well so dexterity has stopped mattering.
Then again except for the character types you mention they are also
probably maxed out in strength so power has stopped mattering as well -
> This leaves GoPow as a reasonable choice only for gnomish Arcs, orcish
> Barbs, gnomish Cavs, gnomish Heas, non-human Rans, and orcish Rogs.
> Elven priests and non-human Wizs can't use them, and the others don't
> need them.
> Note that GoPow are especially irrelevant for Valks: their quest
> provides a nearly inexhaustible stream of giants, which means that
> getting your strength to 18/** is easy.
Thanks for an excellent discussion of gloves. Very educational.
>> > unihorn
>> > luckstone
>>
>> Those two items need to be blessed.
>
> The luckstone only against the risk of it getting cursed: if you have
> only the one, and non-negative luck, there is no difference between it
> being uncursed or blessed. The unicorn horn certainly should be blessed,
> though.
A character who misbehaves can see one difference between an uncursed
luckstone and a blessed one. With a blessed one negative luck slowly
drifts towards zero. It takes a long time to make a difference but it
is some difference. Since with a cursed luckstone positive luck slowly
drifts towards zero the price of seeing your uncursed luckstone get
cursed is very high.
>> I very much like the pairs teleportitus plus teleport control and
>> invisible to others plus see invisible. I like to get see invisible
>> from a fountain after having finished the mines. If you have a tinning
>> kit tin up a stalker and then the next stalker you kill eat it and then
>> the tin immediately afterwards to give you both of the invisible
>> pairing. Then get a spare mummy wrapping in the bag in case you need to
>> be seen by a monster that doesn't already see invisible.
>
> These monsters being mostly (actually, nearly only) shopkeepers.
Check. The combination of see invisible and invisible to others is nice
for monsters that don't see invisible so it has less and less effect as
you go deeper. It is shopkeepers who detect and reject invisible
customers.
> SD is useful not so much in-game as for player ease of mind - it means
> one fewer thing to worry about, and it can be worn almost with impunity.
> I very much like it myself as well, but if I don't get one, I just pay
> more attention to my hunger status and carry on with the game.
You must be better than I am at finding the portal on the level of
water. Even after marking it and then moving towards any item that
might be covering it I still take forever in some games. I am afraid of
running out of food before even facing Famine unless I have a =oSD for
the plane of water.
David Damerell
>You must be better than I am at finding the portal on the level of
>water. Even after marking it and then moving towards any item that
>might be covering it I still take forever in some games. I am afraid of
>running out of food before even facing Famine unless I have a =oSD for
>the plane of water.
This seems utterly remarkable. A K-rat provides 400 nutrition (same
food/weight ratio as a food ration). Assuming you are wearing two rings
and an amulet, that still only results in 24/20 of normal food
consumption; even with regeneration active, you're only at 34/20 of normal
food consumption. (There's an extra 1/20 in there for carrying the
Amulet). However, being Very Fast and unburdened gains you 5/3 of a move
per turn; hence you are burning - in the case where you are regenerating
and fully equipped with rings and amulet but not needlessly slow - 102/100
units of food per _move_.
So carrying five foodrats - not a lot - and never eating a single corpse
(admittedly likely on Water) gives 3,921 moves of nutrition, plus
presumably you were not proposing to enter the level half-starved. That's
a _lot_; it's enough to step on every square in a full 80x21 level 2 1/3
times.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
If we aren't perfectly synchronised this corncob will explode!
Today is First Olethros, January - a weekend.
Tomorrow will be Gaiman, January - a public holiday.
Richard Bos
> Richard Bos wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> McColgst wrote:
> >
> >> > unihorn
> >> > luckstone
> >>
> >> Those two items need to be blessed.
> >
> > The luckstone only against the risk of it getting cursed: if you have
> > only the one, and non-negative luck, there is no difference between it
> > being uncursed or blessed. The unicorn horn certainly should be blessed,
> > though.
>
> A character who misbehaves can see one difference between an uncursed
> luckstone and a blessed one.
True, so don't misbehave. Or don't get your stone cursed. Of course,
it's best if you _can_ get it blessed, and once you're going to get the
Amulet I'd say the Curse makes it essential, but all the same I would
bless the unicorn horn before the luckstone.
> > SD is useful not so much in-game as for player ease of mind - it means
> > one fewer thing to worry about, and it can be worn almost with impunity.
> > I very much like it myself as well, but if I don't get one, I just pay
> > more attention to my hunger status and carry on with the game.
>
> You must be better than I am at finding the portal on the level of
> water. Even after marking it and then moving towards any item that
> might be covering it I still take forever in some games. I am afraid of
> running out of food before even facing Famine unless I have a =oSD for
> the plane of water.
I did the very same thing on my first ascension - detected the portal,
went over there, and found that it'd gone, left the building, vanished
into thin air. And yes, I nearly had no food left by the time I found it
again, and only just made the altar.
Ever since, I've made sure to carry a couple more than the minimum
needed detection items (or, if I can spare the weight, an orb and a
B?oCh). Then, when I get to water, I detect the portal straight away, go
to roughly that area, and detect it again when I think I must be getting
near. Repeat as necessary, but usually twice or thrice is enough.
Richard
Richard Bos
> On Jan 6, 8:06=A0am, ralt...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
> > Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Richard Bos wrote:
> >>> The lack of levitation is more of a bother. It's not an absolute
> >>> necessity - every use of levitation can be worked around using other
> >>> intrinsics or tricks - but it is very, very useful, particularly on the
> >>> planes.
> >>
> >> Besides the special proficiency of riding, and besides polymorph self,
> >> are there other means to substitute levitation on the Plane of Air?
> >
> > The only one that I can think of is hiding inside another moving monster
> > (by preference not an air elemental...) and letting it move you most of
> > the way. [...]
>
> It's possible to simply walk across that level, although
> each step has only 25% of successfully moving, so that's both
> tedious and dangerous
True, but that is exactly what we want to avoid by using levitation. So
I'd hardly describe it as a substitute _for_ levitation.
> Recoil from throwing works too, as long as you throw
> something other than gold.
That's clever - I hadn't thought of that, because normally it only works
when you _do_ have levitation.
> But instead of interleaving your recoil with normal monster movement,
> the game makes you float N squares one after another, then freezes
> you in place at the destination for N turns, so recoil may not be
> much better than attempting ordinary movement.
Well... at least it's a 50% move-flounder ratio, rather than a 25% one.
OTOH, the prolonged freeze may be hazardous - you can't cast full
healing halfway through.
Richard
Doug Freyburger
> Quoting Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com>:
>
>>You must be better than I am at finding the portal on the level of
>>water. Even after marking it and then moving towards any item that
>>might be covering it I still take forever in some games. I am afraid of
>>running out of food before even facing Famine unless I have a =oSD for
>>the plane of water.
>
> This seems utterly remarkable. A K-rat provides 400 nutrition (same
> food/weight ratio as a food ration). Assuming you are wearing two rings
> and an amulet, that still only results in 24/20 of normal food
> consumption; even with regeneration active, you're only at 34/20 of normal
> food consumption. (There's an extra 1/20 in there for carrying the
> Amulet). However, being Very Fast and unburdened gains you 5/3 of a move
> per turn; hence you are burning - in the case where you are regenerating
> and fully equipped with rings and amulet but not needlessly slow - 102/100
> units of food per _move_.
>
> So carrying five foodrats - not a lot - and never eating a single corpse
> (admittedly likely on Water) gives 3,921 moves of nutrition, plus
> presumably you were not proposing to enter the level half-starved. That's
> a _lot_; it's enough to step on every square in a full 80x21 level 2 1/3
> times.
Thanks for the reduction to the rational. Any time I've been on the
plane of water I've been well prepared enough that no monster on the
level was a hassle. That made the level boring other than chosing to
stay dry or get wet. It makes the level seem a all longer than it is
and that biased my view of how much food to take.
There's also the time I arrived on the plane and lost my scrolls to
water and had to wander around wielding the Amulet. That seemed to take
forever but was probably closer to 1000 turns than the 3291 turns you
calculate.
archmage84
I find it entertaining that you guys all posted stuff AFTER he'd
mentioned his YASD.
David Damerell
>I find it entertaining that you guys all posted stuff AFTER he'd
>mentioned his YASD.
Why? It's not like no-one is ever going to worry how much food to bring to
the Planes again.
Please don't quote the entire article for a two-line followup, especially
if you are going to mangle the quoted text so hideously.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Mania, March.
Tomorrow will be Aponoia, March.