Exploiting scroll of mail on Elbereth
Ville Saalo
Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
"activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor. I think this is a
bug - the scroll of mail is just another nifty feature that should have
no effect to the game play. If, however, you can get an endless amount
of items to activate an endless amount of E-squares, it does affect the
game play. I'll send a bug report to the devteam after hearing your
comments.
Reference: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Scroll_of_mail
-Ville
sjde...@yahoo.com
> Reading Wikihack, I came to think of a use for the scroll of mail and
> Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
> "activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor. I think this is a
> bug - the scroll of mail is just another nifty feature that should have
> no effect to the game play. If, however, you can get an endless amount
> of items to activate an endless amount of E-squares, it does affect the
> game play. I'll send a bug report to the devteam after hearing your
> comments.
>
party could use them to, say, push you to burdened if you're on the
verge.
Janis
> Ville Saalo wrote:
> > Reading Wikihack, I came to think of a use for the scroll of mail and
> > Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
> > "activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor.
You can use arbitrary amounts of stones or other useless items that
exist in Nethack en masse to achieve the same effect.
> I think this is a
> > bug - the scroll of mail is just another nifty feature that should have
> > no effect to the game play. If, however, you can get an endless amount
> > of items to activate an endless amount of E-squares, it does affect the
> > game play. I'll send a bug report to the devteam after hearing your
> > comments.
> >
> IIRC, scrolls of mail have non-zero weight as well. A malicious 3rd
> party could use them to, say, push you to burdened if you're on the
> verge.
Once I have been sent a Scroll of Mail at NAO; the person wanted to
see whether it consumes a turn to read it. (Though I don't remember
to have heard about whether it does or not.)
Janis
Ville Saalo
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Ville Saalo wrote:
> > > Reading Wikihack, I came to think of a use for the scroll of mail and
> > > Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
> > > "activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor.
>
> You can use arbitrary amounts of stones or other useless items that
> exist in Nethack en masse to achieve the same effect.
Yes, but then you have to work for it, consume nutrition. You get those
scrolls for free, without doing anything in-game. Also, low-level
characters might not have a pick-axe to create stones. With scrolls of
mail, you could easily, say, create a path of working E-squares from
staircase to staircase. Besides, stones weigh 10, scrolls only 5.
Scrolls of mail also weigh 5.
-Ville
Janis
> Janis wrote:
> > sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Ville Saalo wrote:
> > > > Reading Wikihack, I came to think of a use for the scroll of mail and
> > > > Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
> > > > "activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor.
> >
> > You can use arbitrary amounts of stones or other useless items that
> > exist in Nethack en masse to achieve the same effect.
>
> Yes, but then you have to work for it, consume nutrition.
Wasting a whole turn *every* move to write Elbereth will consume
twice the nutrition that you would otherwise need if playing more
sophisticated (and ignoring the usual write failures and erasures).
> You get those scrolls for free, without doing anything in-game.
My focus was _arbitrary objects_, stones just a RL common wording,
Nethack is full of junk that you may use for that purpose! Even very
early in the game, creatures carry junk.
> Also, low-level characters might not have a pick-axe to create stones.
Then you'd also need some boulder or statue. But no, it was not the
point to manufacture stones; just use what is there in abundance to
follow a tactics that is doomed to fail. Call it abuse or bug if you
like, I'd call it stupidity to do, and ineffective in practise.
> With scrolls of
> mail, you could easily, say, create a path of working E-squares from
> staircase to staircase.
I don't think this is a realistic example. Someone who does that
(i.e. an unexperienced beginner) will likely starve to death while
doing that. And the first group of elves won't respect that E-word,
anyway.
It might be a point in the very first few moves when there's not yet
much junk but, frankly, do you really find it worth to handle that?
(And there's always the possibility to #undefine MAIL when compiling
your version.)
> Besides, stones weigh 10, scrolls only 5.
> Scrolls of mail also weigh 5.
Then use glass, if weight matters. Or any deathdrop or object lying
around.
Janis
Rast
janis_pa...@hotmail.com says...
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > IIRC, scrolls of mail have non-zero weight as well. A malicious 3rd
> > party could use them to, say, push you to burdened if you're on the
> > verge.
>
> Once I have been sent a Scroll of Mail at NAO; the person wanted to
> see whether it consumes a turn to read it. (Though I don't remember
> to have heard about whether it does or not.)
It does.
Mail can be turned off in options.
--
"It's only possible to betray where loyalty is due," said Sandy.
"Well, wasn't it due to Miss Brodie?"
"Only up to a point," said Sandy.
- Muriel Spark
deltopia
> > Besides, stones weigh 10, scrolls only 5.
> > Scrolls of mail also weigh 5.
>
> Then use glass, if weight matters. Or any deathdrop or object lying
> around.
>
> Janis
Single zorkmids. Their weight really is trivial. But some
non-Elbereth-respecting creature is bound to come by eventually and
pick things up, isn't it?
--d
John H.
> Reading Wikihack, I came to think of a use for the scroll of mail and
> Eidolos there confirmed it. The scroll of mail can be used to
> "activate" the E-word, when it is engraved to floor. I think this is a
> bug - the scroll of mail is just another nifty feature that should have
> no effect to the game play. If, however, you can get an endless amount
> of items to activate an endless amount of E-squares, it does affect the
> game play. I'll send a bug report to the devteam after hearing your
> comments.
Can I ask a stupid question? Why does Elbereth need an item on top of
it to work?
- John H.
Ville Saalo
> it to work?
Because.. well... That's a good question!
-Ville
The Shrewd Dude
> it to work?
Likely, creatures aren't afraid of the mere engraving of the name of
Varda Elbereth, the Star Queen, Lady of Valinor, but rather anything
that can exploit the name - by resting upon it - be it a mighty warrior
or a piece of junk mail.
[Why don't the other names work? Writing 'varda' would take less marker
charges!]
Janis
> In article <1155994284.7...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
> janis_pa...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > see whether it consumes a turn to read it. (Though I don't remember
> > to have heard about whether it does or not.)
>
> It does.
>
> Mail can be turned off in options.
YKYBPTMNH when, reading this, you immediately think of being
able to be spammed through Nethack's mail feature with tons of
false Nethack rumors. <shudder>
Janis
James Buchanan
> [Why don't the other names work? Writing 'varda' would take less marker
> charges!]
Well, for one thing, whenever anyone invokes the Varda to drive off
evil in LOTR, they use "Elbereth". "Varda" is only found (to my
recollection) in Galadriel's song, Namarie (and there Tolkien provides
an explanation linking her to Elbereth). So, Elbereth definitely seems
more popular as an invocation (like when Sam speaks in tongues outside
Shelob's lair), and Varda is used more just like a name in the
Silmarillion. (Maybe a bit like YHWH vs. Adonai in Judaism? But "Varda"
and "Elbereth" are two different languages, though...)
A more practical reason: "Elberet".
Been there, done that, got the -3 long sword.
Janis
Hmm.., rethinking about my words; could a mail demon delivering
true rumors every 5000 or 10000 moves be of good use for those
unspoiled newbies that haven't figured out how the Oracle works?
(I suppose it would not be too difficult to add such code.)
Janis
Beolach
>
> Hmm.., rethinking about my words; could a mail demon delivering
> true rumors every 5000 or 10000 moves be of good use for those
> unspoiled newbies that haven't figured out how the Oracle works?
> (I suppose it would not be too difficult to add such code.)
>
> Janis
>
Have it "From Izchak", and send true rumors unless Izchak has been
angered, in which case it sends false.
Beolach
Arthur J. O'Dwyer
It's already there. #define MAIL on a system with no mailreader, such
as MS-DOS. I would guess there's a way to get the MS-DOS behavior on
*nix, too.
-Arthur
John H.
> Hmm.., rethinking about my words; could a mail demon delivering
> true rumors every 5000 or 10000 moves be of good use for those
> unspoiled newbies that haven't figured out how the Oracle works?
> (I suppose it would not be too difficult to add such code.)
In some versions (formerly, and maybe still, MS-DOS in particular), if
Mail is turned on the game will send in a mail daemon randomly with
junk mail. One would simply have to find the code that does that and
repurpose it.
It would make fortune cookies (one of my favorite items) less cool
however. I think the very existance of a character called the Oracle,
who can be chatted with and asks for money for major and minor
consultations, is enough of a hint. It might be worth reminding new
players, however, that the chat command exists.
- John H.
nikolai kingsley
i read the subject as "Exploding scroll of mail..." and thought "wow,
there isn't any place safe from those terrorists."
Janis
> i read the subject as "Exploding scroll of mail..." and thought "wow,
> there isn't any place safe from those terrorists."
Would someone like to inform the Department of Homeland Security
(or whatever it is called) about the Wizard of Yendor, please!
You unfold a scroll labelled "SULFUR ET POTASSIUM CHLORATE".
DYWYPI?
Janis
Nathan
> i read the subject as "Exploding scroll of mail..." and thought "wow,
> there isn't any place safe from those terrorists."
This fortune cookie is delicious! -More-
It has a scrap of paper inside. -More-
It reads:
I prepared explosive runes this morning.
Ian-Keith
John H. wrote:
> Can I ask a stupid question? Why does Elbereth need an item on top of
> it to work?
>
> - John H.
I always thought it was so that the monster would notice and look down
and see the word. Call me crazy...