Newborn Roguelike Game Awards 2006 Results!
SZDev - Slash
So, with a total of (just) 42 votes, the winner is... (oh surprise!)
DoomRL!
Also, another chaosforge game is on second place!
Full listing
8 DoomRL (http://doom.chaosforge.org/)
4 Berserk! (http://berserk.chaosforge.org/)
4 Dwarf Fortress (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/)
4 Frozen Depths (http://koti.mbnet.fi/frozend/mainf.php)
3 Ali Baba's Cave (http://www.stambouliote.de/alibaba/)
3 Bone to be Wild
3 CastlevaniaRL (http://www.santiagoz.com/)
3 GearHead 2 (http://gearhead.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.html)
2 Dweller Mobile
(http://www.roguelikedevelopment.org/dweller/index.php)
2 Letter Hunt (http://www.zincland.com/7drl/letterhunt/)
2 POWDER (http://www.zincland.com/powder/)
1 Lost Labyrinth (http://laby.toybox.de/?sprache=1)
1 Magic Monsters
1 MetroidRL (http://www.santiagoz.com/)
1 The Sewer Massacre (http://common-lisp.net/project/lifp/sewers.htm)
I hope next year more people will jump in to vote!
Congrats to the developers of these games.
--
Slash
[http://www.santiagoz.com]
Timofei Shatrov
confuse everyone with this message:
>Hello all!
>
>So, with a total of (just) 42 votes, the winner is... (oh surprise!)
>DoomRL!
>
>Also, another chaosforge game is on second place!
Ok, I was silent on the issue up to this point, but now I've got to say
something unless Kornel would think that he is a god of RL scene or something.
To simply put it, Berserk sucks. I think it is one of the worst RLs of 2006,
especially considering it was made by the author of DoomRL and DiabloRL (which
are excellent). With all the hype I simply cannot understand why people like it.
There is one dungeon (or rather, open field), hordes of typical monsters (I
think there's 5 types of monsters in total) - the difference between them being
purely cosmetic: one hits harder, one is slower, one shoots. That's basically
it. Now that wouldn't be a problem if the game was short. No, it is too
painfully long as the main character has a whopping 100HP and can restore his
full HP several times. That means it takes hours to get killed unless you die
from boredom before that - because there isn't much to do. The ranged weapons
suck: a blast of a rocket launcher just scratches more strong monsters, other
weapons are even worse. So it's basically all melee. Now, there is a feature
that you can go berserk when you have low HP. Which looks and behaves exactly
the same as in Crawl or DoomRL. The setting is apparently related to some
Berserk manga (of which I never heard before), but it doesn't influence the game
in any way. It could've easily been set in Transformers or Star Wars or whatever
universe: just rename monsters and weapons and you're done. That's all: no
redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Malek Deneith
news:45ab90c4...@news.readfreenews.net:
Sorry but I have to disaggree with you. First of all - the game was made mostly with
Berserk! (manga) fans in thoght - if you read it you get to understand a bit why the
game looks like that. Ranged weapons too weak? Mainly bacausethey aren't meant to be
main way of killing - they are support to help you live longer, and they fit that
role if you use them wisely. Berserk feature "unoriginal"? Right... give us an way
how to make it original... I'm sure you have thousands of original ideas. Besides
this game is a beta - Kornel didn't put even half of the things he wanted - things
like "repetivnes" are to be solved by campaign mode that is in works... New monsters
that are diffrent from "one hits harder, one is slower, one shoots" syndrome got
added in last bet varsion. You just can't expect every 7DRL be as good as almost
full game like DoomRL.
Karnot
long.
Corremn
Karnot wrote:
> Actually i do agree that its not very fun when this simple game is that
> long.
I think it was a case of 'I love DoomRL so anything that Kornel does
must be great'.
I played Berserk once then got half way through a second game and quit
because of boredom. The gameplay, while simple, was good for a 7drl
but because there was no overall goal for the me to aim at I lost
interest very quickly. There were some great ideas implemented in this
game and I think the next version will actually make it playable I.e
fun.
Hell, it was a lot better that my attempt at a 7drl.
Pointless
As for the thought process "I love DoomRL and Kornel therefore I voted
for Berserk", I have to disagree strongly with this because Berserk!
was the only game I voted for. I am a very big fan of the original
Doom, probably in my top 5 games of all time, but I never got into
DoomRL. I think that Berserk is very fun for two reasons: one is the
emotional intensity and the other is the strategic gameplay.
Strategic gameplay is easy to explain: the PC must run to fight hunters
but not overextend stamina, the PC can hide behind locations and gain
strategic advantages, the PC can use special weapons. Most of all,
berserking gets more powerful the more damage the PC takes, so there is
a tactical risk that is involved when berserking. On one hand to
continue massacring enemies, and on the other to use the healing magic
to recover HP and end berserk mode. This aspect of gameplay is very
rewarding for me.
The other reason I like this game is the emotional intensity. there is
just something about this game that raises my body's adrenaline and
stress levels. Maybe it is the fact that the berserking and pain system
is done so well that I want to continue killing but also stay alive as
long as possible. I feel like I am living the character and constantly
fighting against the enemies, but also engaging in a constant battle
with myself to assume control of my next action. It's a constant
struggle between risk and safety. It is this tension that gives the
game real excitement.
Also, the game does an exceptionally good job of recreating the
conceptual imagery of the Berserk manga. There is more than Berserk
monster types and item names in this game. There is also a mood or
atmosphere that the player is fighting a hopelessly bloody battle with
the forces of the world, and with himself, that simply can not be won
without at least a catastrophic cost to human life. This is the appeal
of the Berserk manga, and of Kornel's game. The Berserk name represents
a moral and human challenge to the people that partake of it. It is
this tension that makes Berserk! an excellent game that crescendoes in
intensity as the game gets longer instead of diminishes.
There's more to a game than content.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Hello all!
>
> So, with a total of (just) 42 votes, the winner is... (oh surprise!)
> DoomRL!
>
> Also, another chaosforge game is on second place!
>
> Full listing
>
> 8 DoomRL (http://doom.chaosforge.org/)
> 4 Berserk! (http://berserk.chaosforge.org/)
Well, I guess I should be proud, and thank all that voted for Berserk!
and DoomRL :). Thank you ^_^
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]
"Coding is *much* easier if you know what you want to do..." -
Gamer_2k4
Kornel Kisielewicz
<snip>
Thank you Pointless, all I can do, is to say that what you write was the
intended effect of Berserk!, and express my hope that this feeling will
not be lost during further development...
Try the new version -- I don't want to loose that effect, so your
comments will be priceless.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]
"Kornel just won't release the code because his compiler is a jealous
mistress and doesn't want any of Kornel's code ever being touched by
another woman. ;)" -- Twisted One
Kornel Kisielewicz
> On 15 Jan 2007 06:16:12 -0800, "SZDev - Slash" <java....@gmail.com> tried to
> confuse everyone with this message:
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> So, with a total of (just) 42 votes, the winner is... (oh surprise!)
>> DoomRL!
>>
>> Also, another chaosforge game is on second place!
>
> Ok, I was silent on the issue up to this point, but now I've got to say
> something unless Kornel would think that he is a god of RL scene or something.
I never thought like that, and never behaved in a way that would imply
that I do.
> To simply put it, Berserk sucks. I think it is one of the worst RLs of 2006,
> especially considering it was made by the author of DoomRL and DiabloRL (which
> are excellent). With all the hype I simply cannot understand why people like it.
Read Pointless' post. That was the intended effect of Berserk!.
Unfortunately I'm afraid that it didn't work on people that didn't know
the Manga. Berserk!, contrary to how it may look like, was a quite bold
and original approach -- I've designed everything in the game to serve
the master feature - the mood. That's why gameplay was lacking a bit.
Also a lot of time was spent on polishing -- commenting the code, making
the internals clean -- because that was my first open source game.
Try the new version. It should be more appealing to the traditional
rogueliker I think.
> weapons are even worse. So it's basically all melee. Now, there is a feature
> that you can go berserk when you have low HP. Which looks and behaves exactly
> the same as in Crawl or DoomRL.
Nope, I can't agree here. Berserk mode in Berserk! is unique in the way
that it's tied to your health points. That makes playing "on the edge"
the only way to reach a good highscore.
> The setting is apparently related to some
> Berserk manga (of which I never heard before), but it doesn't influence the game
> in any way. It could've easily been set in Transformers or Star Wars or whatever
> universe: just rename monsters and weapons and you're done.
As Pointless pointed out (no pun intended) it does. All of the design is
specificaly tailored to the mood of Berserk manga.
> That's all: no
> redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
> least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
> improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
That was very unfair.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]
"Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and
restart body."
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Karnot wrote:
>> Actually i do agree that its not very fun when this simple game is that
>> long.
>
> I think it was a case of 'I love DoomRL so anything that Kornel does
> must be great'.
Note that half of the people that voted for Berserk! voted for Berserk
alone.
> I played Berserk once then got half way through a second game and quit
> because of boredom. The gameplay, while simple, was good for a 7drl
> but because there was no overall goal for the me to aim at I lost
> interest very quickly.
I'm sorry to surprise you but the lack of any goal except survival is a
feature not a bug :). There WILL be a Campaign mode in 0.9 tough, but it
will also not have the "happy ending" everyone expects. This is one of
the main mood-setters for Berserk.
> There were some great ideas implemented in this
> game and I think the next version will actually make it playable I.e
> fun.
Try it then :).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]
My opinions are my own. Share them at your own risk.
konijn_
> > That's all: no
> > redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
> > least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
> > improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
>
> That was very unfair.
+15 style points. Waiting a while to let the emotions cool down and
then put the OP back in his place.
Cheers,
T.
Timofei Shatrov
everyone with this message:
><SNIP>
>> > That's all: no
>> > redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
>> > least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
>> > improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
>>
>> That was very unfair.
>
>+15 style points. Waiting a while to let the emotions cool down and
>then put the OP back in his place.
>
Is there some contest going on or what? I had an opinion and posted it. Some
friendly critique has never harmed anyone. I for one would love to see why my
games suck (there has to be a reason why nobody plays them). It may make me to
stop procrastinating and write better games.
konijn_
Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> On 20 Jan 2007 11:00:16 -0800, "konijn_" <kon...@gmail.com> tried to confuse
> everyone with this message:
>
> ><SNIP>
> >> > That's all: no
> >> > redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
> >> > least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
> >> > improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
> >>
> >> That was very unfair.
> >
> >+15 style points. Waiting a while to let the emotions cool down and
> >then put the OP back in his place.
> >
>
> Is there some contest going on or what? I had an opinion and posted it. Some
> friendly critique has never harmed anyone.
Well, I frankly wouldnt want to see your nasty critique then ;) I think
your remarks where out of place, that of course is just my opinion,
which is best digested with a bucket of salt ;)
>I for one would love to see why my
> games suck (there has to be a reason why nobody plays them). It may make me to
> stop procrastinating and write better games.
You have games of your own ? You should have a link in your signature.
Jeff Lait
> Timofei Shatrov wrote:
> > Is there some contest going on or what? I had an opinion and posted it. Some
> > friendly critique has never harmed anyone.
>
> Well, I frankly wouldnt want to see your nasty critique then ;) I think
> your remarks where out of place, that of course is just my opinion,
> which is best digested with a bucket of salt ;)
I think we could do with more critiques like Timofei's.
The critique was clear and well written. It targetted the game while
being respectful of the author. Indeed, the critique makes it clear
that it is harsh *because* Timofei believes Kornel can do better. I
also find it interesting that none of the rebuttals addressed Timofei's
actual gameplay concerns. Indeed, they instead say: "That's a feature
- if you read the manga you would understand!"
It is relatively easy to find out why people like your game. They will
write to you and tell you. It is much harder to find out why so many
people download your game, play it once, and throw it in the trash bin
as unworthy. With POWDER, I've found the most informative playtesting
is giving a GBA with POWDER on it to a non-RL player and watching them
try to play. It is depressing the amount of extra-game knowledge and
prompting I have to give for them to get at all going. Quite a few
changes have been made to try and improve that default play experience:
to make sure you don't need to know how to remap keys to play; to make
sure just walking around suffices for play; etc. However, I know of
numerous shortcomings still present. Equiping your starting items is
something no-one can figure out immediately, for example.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Kornel Kisielewicz
> everyone with this message:
>
>> <SNIP>
>>> > That's all: no
>>>> redeeming features found. And that's a pity, because I expected something at
>>>> least as good as DiabloRL, which was also made in 7 days. Instead we get an
>>>> improved version of that 1drl with zombies and it's even less fun.
>>> That was very unfair.
>> +15 style points. Waiting a while to let the emotions cool down and
>> then put the OP back in his place.
>>
>
> Is there some contest going on or what? I had an opinion and posted it. Some
> friendly critique has never harmed anyone. I for one would love to see why my
> games suck (there has to be a reason why nobody plays them). It may make me to
> stop procrastinating and write better games.
It's okay, I value all critique, and can't say that you didn't have
valid points. But could you continue the discussion in the appropriate
thread? Berserk! changes as we speak!
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]
"Gott weiss, Ich will kein Engel sein..." -- Rammstein /Engel/
DarkGod
> I think we could do with more critiques like Timofei's.
[snip]
Yes indeed, there was nothing wrong with is opinion, he posted it in non flammy
maner, in a decent and polite way, with, obviously, the goal to get something
better in the end.
I applaud such comments(not because it says berserk sucks, but because it
says it well and *explains* why).
On the other hand Kornel's reply is rather lacking compared to it.
Kornel, maybe you think his comments are not a problem or whatever, just
tell him, and start a discusion, maybe something good can come out of it
to make your game better. There was nothing unfair about his comments ..
--
DarkGod comes from | Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards
the hells for YOU ! :) | because they are subtle and quick to anger.
-----------------------+----------------------------------------------
ToME power! http://t-o-m-e.net
Kornel Kisielewicz
> On 2007-01-21 02:03:45, "Jeff Lait" <torespon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think we could do with more critiques like Timofei's.
> [snip]
>
> Yes indeed, there was nothing wrong with is opinion, he posted it in non flammy
> maner, in a decent and polite way, with, obviously, the goal to get something
> better in the end.
> I applaud such comments(not because it says berserk sucks, but because it
> says it well and *explains* why).
Well so do I, and I *did* admit the validness of the comments.
> On the other hand Kornel's reply is rather lacking compared to it.
> Kornel, maybe you think his comments are not a problem or whatever, just
> tell him, and start a discusion, maybe something good can come out of it
> to make your game better. There was nothing unfair about his comments ..
There were two major problems that Timofei had with Berserk!: the first
one was the lack of originality, the second one lack of content.
Pointless' post adressed the first one a lot better than I could write
about it. But generally I understood that Berserk!'s uniqness and design
is probably inunderstandable for someone who didn't see (and feel!) the
anime/manga by which it was inspired. Too bad, but I can't do much about it.
As for the second problem, I decided that actions speak louder than
words, so instead of defending Berserk!s small content list I released a
much improved 0.8 version, which directly adresses many of Timofei's
issues (for example: in the 0.8 version EACH monster except the weakest
has a unique and important ability that makes him significaly different
from the others).
P.S. Any chance of another linux binary? ^_^
DarkGod
> Well so do I, and I *did* admit the validness of the comments.
Ah sorry did not see it :)
> P.S. Any chance of another linux binary? ^_^
Dunno, have you been a good boy lately ?
Timofei Shatrov
<admin@nospam_chaosforge.org> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>As for the second problem, I decided that actions speak louder than
>words, so instead of defending Berserk!s small content list I released a
>much improved 0.8 version, which directly adresses many of Timofei's
>issues (for example: in the 0.8 version EACH monster except the weakest
>has a unique and important ability that makes him significaly different
>from the others).
>
Yes, I played it a bit and it is much better and much more fun. I'll try the
Endless mode when I have more time.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> <admin@nospam_chaosforge.org> tried to confuse everyone with this message:
>
>> As for the second problem, I decided that actions speak louder than
>> words, so instead of defending Berserk!s small content list I released a
>> much improved 0.8 version, which directly adresses many of Timofei's
>> issues (for example: in the 0.8 version EACH monster except the weakest
>> has a unique and important ability that makes him significaly different
>>from the others).
>
> Yes, I played it a bit and it is much better and much more fun. I'll try the
> Endless mode when I have more time.
I'm glad to hear that :). Post-7DRL development of Berserk! is mainly
aimed at providing more "expected" features to the game. I only hope
that those won't ruin the original "feel" of the game...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (adminATchaosforge.org) [http://chaosforge.org]