DCSS August Tournament Announcement, request for comments
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org. All you
have to do to compete is play; if you're interested in team play, you'll
have to edit your options file. You can see what last year's tournament
results looked like at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/tourney/overview.html .
I have added in some new achievement trophies this year, similar to the
achievements that can be scored in the devnull nethack tournament. I'm
also open to changing some of the numerical values for things, although
I think last year worked about right based on how I imagined it. Please
comment, though, if you have ideas or suggestions.
Thank you,
-r.
The proposed tournament plan:
The big change this year will be the addition of award banners: Things
you can get that put you on a list as achieving a certain goal in
the tournament. Some of them are pretty standard: Rune, Win. Some of
them are a little goofier and it's theoretically possible to win the
tournament without getting them. I appreciate your thoughts on this;
I can make changes until Friday when we will start coding all of the
changes to the tournament software so that we can run some smoke tests
before the tournament happens.
WINS:
----
100 points for first win. (Since winning is kind of the goal.)
50 points for second win that is not a repeat race or class.
10 points for each win thereafter, repeat or not.
50 extra points for your first all-rune victory.
100 extra points for each consecutive win that is not a repeat race or class.
30 extra points for each consecutive win that is a repeat race xor class.
10 extra points for each consecutive win that is a repeat race and class.
30 extra points for each non-consecutive win that is not a repeat race or
class.
10 extra points for each non-consecutive win that is a repeat race xor class.
Award banner for winning.
For streak wins, "Repeat" means "in that streak;" for non-streak wins, "repeat"
means "ever."
SPECIAL WINS
------------
200/100/50 points for fastest win in realtime.
200/100/50 points for fastest win by turncount.
200/100/50 points for first win scored.
200/100/50 points for first 15-rune victory.
RUNES
-----
10 points each time you find each type of rune for the first time.
1 point each time you find any rune a second or later time.
Award banner for first rune.
UNIQUES
-------
5 points the first time you kill each unique.
50/20/10 points for most unique uniques killed; ties broken by who gets
that number first.
"The Scythe": Award banner for "I killed Sigmund twenty-seven times."
HIGH SCORES
-----------
5 points per high score in a race/class combination (HuWn, not just Hu)
5 additional points for each high score that is a win.
10 points per high score in a race.
10 points per high score in a class.
200/100/50 points for most high scores in race/class combos.
NO POINT BANNERS
----------------
"Pantheist": Chose every God not as a starting God. (Beogh and Lugonu
are tricky here! Also detecting this is vaguely tricky; technically it
works out to "died or won with every God with a character class that
cannot start as that God.)
"Agnostic Pantheist": Has abandoned every God.
"Rune Literacy": Has seen each type of rune at least once.
"Moose and Squirrel": Has killed Boris at least twice in a single game.
"Atheist": Won a character who never took a god and was not a DG.
Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be able
to calculate them from milestone and log files.
CLAN POINTS ONLY
------------
These get you clan points but do not get you points toward the individual
prize, encouraging specialization on clans but making the hypothetical
"Best Crawl Player" award based on more "real" metrics.
50/20/10 points for lowest dungeon level reached at XL1.
2 points per player ghost killed when playing
N points per ghost kill after dying, where N is the dying character's
XL minus 5.
200/100/50 for _clan_ with most high scores in race/class combos.
100/50/20 for _clan_ with most uniques killed (or all uniques killed
first)
CLAN SCORING
------------
Sum total of individual points for wins, runes, and uniques, sum total of special wins
points, sum total of high scores points,
plus "Clan points only" trophies above.
Six members or less per clan.
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
> NO POINT BANNERS
> ----------------
>
> "Pantheist": Chose every God not as a starting God. (Beogh and Lugonu
> are tricky here! Also detecting this is vaguely tricky; technically it
> works out to "died or won with every God with a character class that
> cannot start as that God.)
> "Agnostic Pantheist": Has abandoned every God.
> "Rune Literacy": Has seen each type of rune at least once.
> "Moose and Squirrel": Has killed Boris at least twice in a single game.
> "Atheist": Won a character who never took a god and was not a DG.
> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be able
> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
Compiling some ideas from IRC...
"Most Unique Deaths": Killed by the most different uniques during the month
Pick a combo for the month or one each week and offer extra points for winning
that one; choose randomly from the combos currently unwon on the server.
Lowest max XL for picking up a rune
Most turns survived in the Abyss at L1
-r.
David Ploog
> After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
> tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org.
Yay!
> Award banner for winning.
Should all banners have cool names? This one could be "The Orb".
> Award banner for first rune.
"The Rune"
> "The Scythe": Award banner for "I killed Sigmund twenty-seven times."
:)
Another idea for points:
Deepest level reached in a ziggurat (200/100/50)
> NO POINT BANNERS
> ----------------
I like the idea of the banners a lot. But some of them are scummable:
> "Pantheist": Chose every God not as a starting God. (Beogh and Lugonu
> are tricky here! Also detecting this is vaguely tricky; technically it
> works out to "died or won with every God with a character class that
> cannot start as that God.)
This one is probably okay, although players might kill characters of Kiku
(say) after reaching the Temple. It might be better given for
Won with all Gods (on characters who never switched religion).
This demands 14 wins, so could be lessened to
Won with most gods (on characters who never switched religion). [*]
> "Agnostic Pantheist": Has abandoned every God.
This is too cheap: a winning character would visit the Temple during the
orb run, take on and abandon all gods, voila! What about this:
Has abandoned and mollified every god.
> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be able
> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
"Versatile": Had [foo] different skill 27 titles (characters need not have
won). [*]
"Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone. [*]
(I hope this can be tracked.)
[*] All of these might be instead (or in addition) used for clan scoring.
Especially something like
200/100/50 most versatile clan
200/100/50 most gods won
200/100/50 win with fewest kills (a milder form of pacifist)
All of these can be nicely distributed among a team. (The last one,
pacifist, is more fun if done for a clan than on its own, in my opinion.)
> CLAN POINTS ONLY
> ------------
> 200/100/50 for _clan_ with most high scores in race/class combos.
> 100/50/20 for _clan_ with most uniques killed (or all uniques killed first)
I think clan boni of this order (200 or 100) are okay but only if...
> CLAN SCORING
> ------------
> Sum total of individual points for wins, runes, and uniques,
> sum total of special wins points, sum total of high scores points,
If we remove the special wins here. I think it's more interesting for clan
play if the first win etc. are not counted and instead questions like "Who
of us is gonna try the Kiku win?" are emphasised.
David
David Ploog
> Pick a combo for the month or one each week and offer extra points for winning
> that one; choose randomly from the combos currently unwon on the server.
I love this.
David
Erwin M.
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>
>> After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
>> tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org.
>
>> ----------------
>> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be
>> able
>> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
>
> "Versatile": Had [foo] different skill 27 titles (characters need not
> have won).
25 points for the first person who gets Dungeon Master regardless of any
other skill 27 titles. :)
> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone.
> (I hope this can be tracked.)
"note_messages = You kill"? (Won't make for a terribly messy morgue
file, since anyone going for this is likely to quit after that first kill.)
Some more no-points suggestions, since all of these can be trivialized
with appropriate farming:
"Shopaholic": Highest amount of money spent in shops.
"Bulletproof Barding": Anyone who finishes (win not necessary) *wearing*
+8 centaur or naga barding. (Since we all know that the only way to get
barding generated is not to play the appropriate race.)
"Fixedart Farmer": Win with most fixedarts in inventory. Runes don't count.
"Pan Poacher": Win with highest number of demonic runes.
"Jinx": Highest number of kills in the "others" category. (Does
confusing monsters into lava or deep water count? If so, forget it.)
David Ploog
> David Ploog wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone.
>> (I hope this can be tracked.)
>
> "note_messages = You kill"? (Won't make for a terribly messy morgue
> file, since anyone going for this is likely to quit after that first kill.)
This (quitting after accidental kill) is something I don't like at all.
Which is why it might be better to give something for
Won with fewest kills
instead.
I also believe that this (like the XL 1 dive) makes a good task for clans:
if someone cannot play many games, it may still be interesting to provide
such an odd trophy (with its points) for the clan.
David
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>
>> After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
>> tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org.
>
> Yay!
>
>> Award banner for winning.
>
> Should all banners have cool names? This one could be "The Orb".
>
>> Award banner for first rune.
>
> "The Rune"
>
>> "The Scythe": Award banner for "I killed Sigmund twenty-seven times."
>
>:)
>
> Another idea for points:
> Deepest level reached in a ziggurat (200/100/50)
This will go in if we have an 0.5.1 where anyone sees a ziggurat.
*innocent smile*
>> NO POINT BANNERS
>> ----------------
>
> I like the idea of the banners a lot. But some of them are scummable:
>
>> "Pantheist": Chose every God not as a starting God. (Beogh and Lugonu
>> are tricky here! Also detecting this is vaguely tricky; technically it
>> works out to "died or won with every God with a character class that
>> cannot start as that God.)
>
> This one is probably okay, although players might kill characters of Kiku
> (say) after reaching the Temple. It might be better given for
> Won with all Gods (on characters who never switched religion).
> This demands 14 wins, so could be lessened to
> Won with most gods (on characters who never switched religion). [*]
The idea is that you should be able to get it easily, so that you don't
have to be able to win in order to get the award. :) If it's not worth
points I can't imagine a Stabwound or a N78291 killing off a character to
get a PNG file.
>> "Agnostic Pantheist": Has abandoned every God.
>
> This is too cheap: a winning character would visit the Temple during the
> orb run, take on and abandon all gods, voila! What about this:
> Has abandoned and mollified every god.
Ooooh, I like that a lot.
>> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be able
>> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
>
> "Versatile": Had [foo] different skill 27 titles (characters need not have
> won). [*]
I like this as well.
> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone. [*]
> (I hope this can be tracked.)
I like "won with fewest kills" instead as discussed elsewhere.
The real kicker: Fewest kills (which is basically the "summoner award") or
Fewest monsters that died?
> [*] All of these might be instead (or in addition) used for clan scoring.
> Especially something like
> 200/100/50 most versatile clan
> 200/100/50 most gods won
> 200/100/50 win with fewest kills (a milder form of pacifist)
I think those are reasonable.
> All of these can be nicely distributed among a team. (The last one,
> pacifist, is more fun if done for a clan than on its own, in my opinion.)
>
>> CLAN POINTS ONLY
>> ------------
>> 200/100/50 for _clan_ with most high scores in race/class combos.
>> 100/50/20 for _clan_ with most uniques killed (or all uniques killed first)
>
> I think clan boni of this order (200 or 100) are okay but only if...
>
>> CLAN SCORING
>> ------------
>> Sum total of individual points for wins, runes, and uniques,
>> sum total of special wins points, sum total of high scores points,
>
> If we remove the special wins here. I think it's more interesting for clan
> play if the first win etc. are not counted and instead questions like "Who
> of us is gonna try the Kiku win?" are emphasised.
I disagree; I think your individual performance should reflect well on
your clan. This didn't seem broken last year.
Thank you,
-r.
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
> David Ploog wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>>
>>> After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
>>> tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org.
>>
>>> NO POINT BANNERS
>>> ----------------
>>> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be
>>> able
>>> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
>>
>> "Versatile": Had [foo] different skill 27 titles (characters need not
>> have won).
>
> 25 points for the first person who gets Dungeon Master regardless of any
> other skill 27 titles. :)
>
>> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone.
>> (I hope this can be tracked.)
>
> "note_messages = You kill"? (Won't make for a terribly messy morgue
> file, since anyone going for this is likely to quit after that first kill.)
>
> Some more no-points suggestions, since all of these can be trivialized
> with appropriate farming:
>
> "Shopaholic": Highest amount of money spent in shops.
This would be cute but isn't easy to calculate.
> "Bulletproof Barding": Anyone who finishes (win not necessary) *wearing*
> +8 centaur or naga barding. (Since we all know that the only way to get
> barding generated is not to play the appropriate race.)
For no points, I totally want to put this one in :) Assuming it's not too
intensive to calculate, it's in.
> "Fixedart Farmer": Win with most fixedarts in inventory. Runes don't count.
>
> "Pan Poacher": Win with highest number of demonic runes.
These two are a bit too scummy I think.
> "Jinx": Highest number of kills in the "others" category. (Does
> confusing monsters into lava or deep water count? If so, forget it.)
Why "Jinx?"
-r.
Erwin M.
> On 2009-07-15, Erwin M. <erwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> David Ploog wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>>>
>>>> After last year's success we're having another Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
>>>> tournament over at crawl.akrasiac.org and crawl.develz.org.
>>>> NO POINT BANNERS
>>>> ----------------
>>>> Open to other fun things here with the restriction that we need to be
>>>> able
>>>> to calculate them from milestone and log files.
>>> "Versatile": Had [foo] different skill 27 titles (characters need not
>>> have won).
>> 25 points for the first person who gets Dungeon Master regardless of any
>> other skill 27 titles. :)
>>
>>> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone.
>>> (I hope this can be tracked.)
>> "note_messages = You kill"? (Won't make for a terribly messy morgue
>> file, since anyone going for this is likely to quit after that first kill.)
>>
>> Some more no-points suggestions, since all of these can be trivialized
>> with appropriate farming:
>>
>> "Shopaholic": Highest amount of money spent in shops.
>
> This would be cute but isn't easy to calculate.
Unless I'm misreading my death dumps (or I've incorporated a
non-standard option in my rcfile), 0.5 tracks money spent:
(From
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Stormfox/morgue-Stormfox-20090714-194339.txt)
You collected 547 gold pieces.
You spent 370 gold pieces at shops.
Shouldn't be terribly hard to extract, but see my next comment down...
>
>> "Bulletproof Barding": Anyone who finishes (win not necessary) *wearing*
>> +8 centaur or naga barding. (Since we all know that the only way to get
>> barding generated is not to play the appropriate race.)
>
> For no points, I totally want to put this one in :) Assuming it's not too
> intensive to calculate, it's in.
Grep morgue files for "a +8 .* barding (worn)"...? (I have no idea how
your various scripts process the logs to generate stats on the site, so
what seems obvious and simple may be anything but.)
>
>> "Fixedart Farmer": Win with most fixedarts in inventory. Runes don't count.
>>
>> "Pan Poacher": Win with highest number of demonic runes.
>
> These two are a bit too scummy I think.
Probably. But if you're looking for silly achievements for no points,
these are way up there on the silly scale.
>> "Jinx": Highest number of kills in the "others" category. (Does
>> confusing monsters into lava or deep water count? If so, forget it.)
>
> Why "Jinx?"
The way I've seen things, the "others" category tracks, ahem,
"accidents" that happen to monsters...walking into blade traps, hitting
themselves while confused, that sort of thing. Again, if confusing them
into lava counts, fuggedaboudit...way too scummy.
David Ploog
> On 2009-07-15, David Ploog <pl...@mi.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>> Deepest level reached in a ziggurat (200/100/50)
>
> This will go in if we have an 0.5.1 where anyone sees a ziggurat.
> *innocent smile*
There will be plenty of ziggurats. *whistles*
>>> "Pantheist": Chose every God not as a starting God. (Beogh and Lugonu
>>> are tricky here! Also detecting this is vaguely tricky; technically it
>>> works out to "died or won with every God with a character class that
>>> cannot start as that God.)
>>
>> This one is probably okay, although players might kill characters of Kiku
>> (say) after reaching the Temple. It might be better given for
>> Won with all Gods (on characters who never switched religion).
>> This demands 14 wins, so could be lessened to
>> Won with most gods (on characters who never switched religion). [*]
>
> The idea is that you should be able to get it easily, so that you don't
> have to be able to win in order to get the award. :) If it's not worth
> points I can't imagine a Stabwound or a N78291 killing off a character to
> get a PNG file.
Ah, then it's okay.
>> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone. [*]
>> (I hope this can be tracked.)
>
> I like "won with fewest kills" instead as discussed elsewhere.
> The real kicker: Fewest kills (which is basically the "summoner award")
> or Fewest monsters that died?
I had the latter in mind. In my opinion, it's more fun to ask for an
Elyvilon special than for a summoner special.
>> [*] All of these might be instead (or in addition) used for clan scoring.
>> Especially something like
>> 200/100/50 most versatile clan
>> 200/100/50 most gods won
>> 200/100/50 win with fewest kills (a milder form of pacifist)
>
> I think those are reasonable.
I think I have a better idea: the 200/100/50 boni are absolute. It might
be more interesting to have a bonus that applies across the board:
+10 for every new skill 27 title reached (does not need to be a win)
+20 for every won game with a new god (only games without god changes)
This could apply to personal scores and would emphasise broadness. But
it's even more interesting if (also) applied to clans. (Because clans have
a better chance to cover all the many possibilities: "Player A does
necromancy and Kiku, player B does invocations and Elyvilon etc.")
It is possible to use these boni both for personal and clan scores, if
they are kept separate (as with the most highscores).
>>> CLAN SCORING
>>> ------------
>>> Sum total of individual points for wins, runes, and uniques,
>>> sum total of special wins points, sum total of high scores points,
>>
>> If we remove the special wins here. I think it's more interesting for clan
>> play if the first win etc. are not counted and instead questions like "Who
>> of us is gonna try the Kiku win?" are emphasised.
>
> I disagree; I think your individual performance should reflect well on
> your clan. This didn't seem broken last year.
This has advantages and drawbacks. I don't think we can change the fact
that players with more time on their hands will get more points. Nor do we
want to. But for clans, it might be useful to reduce the special points
from individual players... Just a thought.
I just realised that the following *might* be interesting (for later): for
clan purposes, streaks are measured over the whole clan. This would mean
if player A won, she'll start another game. Now all of A-F will not finish
their games unless they won. Only if all are dying, they carry on. Might
be too awkward or it could help with the group feeling, I don't know.
Thanks for all of this!
David
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>> On 2009-07-15, David Ploog <pl...@mi.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Rachel Elizabeth Dillon wrote:
>>> "Pacifist": Highest XL reached without killing anyone. [*]
>>> (I hope this can be tracked.)
>>
>> I like "won with fewest kills" instead as discussed elsewhere.
>> The real kicker: Fewest kills (which is basically the "summoner award")
>> or Fewest monsters that died?
>
> I had the latter in mind. In my opinion, it's more fun to ask for an
> Elyvilon special than for a summoner special.
>
>>> [*] All of these might be instead (or in addition) used for clan scoring.
>>> Especially something like
>>> 200/100/50 most versatile clan
>>> 200/100/50 most gods won
>>> 200/100/50 win with fewest kills (a milder form of pacifist)
>>
>> I think those are reasonable.
>
> I think I have a better idea: the 200/100/50 boni are absolute. It might
> be more interesting to have a bonus that applies across the board:
> +10 for every new skill 27 title reached (does not need to be a win)
> +20 for every won game with a new god (only games without god changes)
I like this better.
> This could apply to personal scores and would emphasise broadness. But
> it's even more interesting if (also) applied to clans. (Because clans have
> a better chance to cover all the many possibilities: "Player A does
> necromancy and Kiku, player B does invocations and Elyvilon etc.")
I like this as well.
>>>> CLAN SCORING
>>>> ------------
>>>> Sum total of individual points for wins, runes, and uniques,
>>>> sum total of special wins points, sum total of high scores points,
>>>
>>> If we remove the special wins here. I think it's more interesting for clan
>>> play if the first win etc. are not counted and instead questions like "Who
>>> of us is gonna try the Kiku win?" are emphasised.
>>
>> I disagree; I think your individual performance should reflect well on
>> your clan. This didn't seem broken last year.
>
> This has advantages and drawbacks. I don't think we can change the fact
> that players with more time on their hands will get more points. Nor do we
> want to. But for clans, it might be useful to reduce the special points
> from individual players... Just a thought.
It's true that you can currently load up a clan with the best players
and it will be ridiculous. But I think I prefer the advantages to the
drawbacks, personally.
> I just realised that the following *might* be interesting (for later): for
> clan purposes, streaks are measured over the whole clan. This would mean
> if player A won, she'll start another game. Now all of A-F will not finish
> their games unless they won. Only if all are dying, they carry on. Might
> be too awkward or it could help with the group feeling, I don't know.
I think it's too awkward if the players are also going for their own
achievements. In a clan-only tournament it could be really interesting.
But even then it penalizes teams for allowing non-winners to play.
-r.
Slyker
wrote:
How about points or a banner for largest death blow received or
largest damage output ( magic/non magic)? I think largest damage
output would require a little code tweeking so I am not sure if that
is acceptable. As a new player It would be interesting for me to see
which class-combo has the greatest output.
-Slyker-
Dingir
[...]
> NO POINT BANNERS
> ----------------
[MASTER OF ELEMENTARY CONFUSION?]
As a Fire Elementalist, get the Ice Elementalist title or vice versa!
As an Air Elementalist, get the Earth Elementalist title or vice versa!
For some reason, I always wanted to see that (but never tried it myself). ;)
Onia_Ninara
who do not meet any other banner conditions
For everyone that killed more than 10 (12? 15???) ghosts
for everyone whose ghost killed more than 3 (5? 6?) players
something for a win in under 50k turns
something for a character that has identified any scroll/potion/ring/
amulet on the \ list (if track able)
something for a character that killed every possible type of monster
at least once (if track able)