YAVP: CHaoS the Centaur Gladiator. First 4.00.26 Centaur win!
ste...@gmail.com
Recently, Denis posted about the difficulty of playing Centaurs, made a
few CD's, along with Rubinstein. Denis's L27 character ended up dying
in Pandemonium and this motivated me to try to be the first Centaur
winner in 4.00.26.
I posted a thread here: http://tinyurl.com/g4alz that details some of
the trials I faced with him. I came within 49 HP of dying from
torment/hellfire combo(no blink scrolls with me, no healing at all...I
just started running and hoped the pit wouldn't kill me before I got to
the stairs) on the way back with the Orb and I got drained by an Orange
statue *again* because of a careless Ctrl+O. I wonder if anyone has
ever came as close to dying with the Orb as I did with the pit fiend 1
square away. Thank god for centaur's extra speed saving me a turn.
My thoughts on Centaurs: Despite winning with CHaoS, I think Centaurs
are pretty weak. The two things they have going for them are speed and
hooves. They're not quite as good at unarmed as a minotaur, and they
have only 100 aptitude, but their extra attacks are quite strong.
Their skill aptitudes suck except for ranged weapons, their
armour/dodging aptitudes are horrible and even if they wear armour they
only get 1/2 AC from it.
Don't ge tme started on the hungering thing...probably no race has a
worse food problem than Centaurs with no sickness resitance, no
gourmand and 2/3 more hunger points/turn than a human. I was constantly
around my carrying limit(>80%) for the whole game and I has to play the
first few levels in Kamakaze mode(didn't wait to heal or recover from
sickness) until I built up a food supply.
Additionally, I found Crossbows to be so weak that I just stopped
bothering with them and used tactics and speed as well as caution to
take out the difficult attackers.
Good artifact armour, Makhleb's auto-healing and a surplus of blink
scrolls carried me through the game and at the end, I found a lot of
good jewelry, esp. a slaying ring and a ring w/ insulation that carried
me through Zot and to the Orb.
Frankly, I am amazed that CHaoS made it. He was far weaker than my
other two characters and he won with no ranged attack to speak of and
he also lacked detect traps, detect creatures and deflect missiles
which I found incredibly useful in my other VPs. I also didn't use
Invocations even once in the game. He was pretty much a pure melee
fighter aside from the ineffectual crossbow dabbling.
Oh well, not much more to say that I didn't talk about in the other
post. Let me know if you have comments or questions. :)
Dungeon Crawl version 4.0.0 beta 26 character file.
CHaoS the Severer
Race : Centaur Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : .
Class : Gladiator Res.Cold : + + + Warding : .
Worship : Makhleb Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : .
Level : 25 Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : .
Exp : 966259 Res.Elec. : . Gourmand : .
Next Level : 1050699
Exp Needed : 84440 Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : .
Spls.Left : 25 Res.Mut. : + Ctrl.Telep.: +
Gold : 0 Res.Slow : . Levitation : .
Clarity : . Ctrl.Flight: .
HP : 225/225 (226)
MP : 27
Str : 30 Weapon : +7,+4 broad axe of Poverty
Int : 7 Armour : +0 scale mail of Glory
Dex : 19 Shield :
AC : 30 Helmet : +5 helmet of the Mouse
Evasion : 22 Cloak : +3 cloak of Harmony
Shield : 0 Gloves : +3 pair of gloves of the
Arcane
Boots : +2 centaur barding
Play time : 09:12:22 Amulet : amulet of resist mutation
Turns : 122808 Ring : ring of teleport control
Ring : +6 ring of evasion
You escaped.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are full.
Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +2,+0 crossbow of flame (354 gold)
(You took it off a yaktaur on level 1 of the Vaults)
b - a +6,+7 broad axe of chopping (1728 gold)
(You subdued it in the Hall of Blades)
h - the +7,+4 broad axe of Poverty (weapon) (1382 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
It affects your evasion (+4).
It greatly protects you from cold.
Missiles
j - 15 +0 bolts (30 gold)
Armour
l - the +3 pair of gloves of the Arcane (worn) (858 gold)
(You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Vaults)
It affects your strength (+3).
It affects your dexterity (+2).
It affects your accuracy (+1).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
It protects you from fire.
It protects you from cold.
It makes you much more stealthy.
m - the +0 scale mail of Glory (worn) (347 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Lair)
It affects your evasion (+5).
It affects your strength (+3).
It affects your accuracy (-2).
q - the +5 helmet of the Mouse (worn) (750 gold)
(You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Vaults)
It lets you turn invisible.
t - a +2 centaur barding (worn) (144 gold)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair)
G - the +3 cloak of Harmony (worn) (406 gold)
(You found it on level 19 of the Dungeon)
It protects you from poison.
Magical devices
d - a wand of fire (5) (90 gold)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair)
A - a wand of draining (4) (108 gold)
(You found it on level 1 of the Elven Halls)
B - a wand of teleportation (1) (36 gold)
(You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
F - a wand of digging (4) (54 gold)
(You bought it in a shop on level 12 of the Dungeon)
W - a wand of cold (13) (162 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
X - a wand of lightning (6) (150 gold)
(You found it on level 4 of the Realm of Zot)
Y - a wand of fire (11) (144 gold)
(You found it on level 26 of the Dungeon)
Comestibles
c - a sausage (15 gold)
g - 3 bread rations (120 gold)
r - 8 honeycombs (200 gold)
C - an apple (8 gold)
N - 11 royal jellies (1320 gold)
Scrolls
i - 3 scrolls of remove curse (90 gold)
D - a scroll of teleportation (30 gold)
H - 5 scrolls of blinking (150 gold)
J - 2 scrolls of identify (40 gold)
L - a scroll of recharging (50 gold)
V - a scroll of magic mapping (35 gold)
Jewellery
n - the amulet of Impermeability (518 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from
outright
destruction, but not infallibly so.
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
It protects you from magic.
It lets you turn invisible.
It lets you levitate.
o - a ring of sustenance (175 gold)
(You found it on level 10 of the Lair)
s - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck) (210 gold)
(You found it on level 10 of the Lair)
u - the ring "W X Wom" (602 gold)
(You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Vaults)
This ring provides energy to its wearer, so that they need eat less
often.
It affects your dexterity (+3).
It greatly protects you from fire.
It protects you from magic.
w - a ring of teleport control (right hand) (294 gold)
(You found it on level 1 of the Elven Halls)
y - a +6 ring of evasion (left hand) (490 gold)
(You found it on level 10 of the Lair)
O - the ring "K Mewawicad" (392 gold)
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair)
This ring provides protection from the effects of poisons and venom.
It affects your strength (+1).
It protects you from cold.
P - the ring of Ipyxyfo (910 gold)
(You found it on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
This ring either protects its wearer from harm or makes them more
vulnerable to injury, to a degree dependent on its power.
It affects your AC (+5).
It protects you from fire.
It insulates you from electricity.
It protects you from magic.
It enhances your eyesight.
R - the ring "Qotijoqyxiq" (448 gold)
(You found it on level 23 of the Dungeon)
This ring increases the hand-to-hand and missile combat skills of
its
wearer.
It affects your accuracy (+0).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+6).
It affects your strength (+4).
It protects you from fire.
It makes you susceptible to cold.
T - a cursed ring of teleportation (1 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
U - an amulet of conservation (175 gold)
(You found it on level 2 of the Realm of Zot)
Potions
k - 3 potions of mutation (150 gold)
p - a potion of might (25 gold)
x - 6 potions of healing (120 gold)
z - a potion of levitation (20 gold)
E - a potion of invisibility (55 gold)
I - 9 potions of speed (225 gold)
K - 2 potions of restore abilities (100 gold)
Orbs of Power
f - the Orb of Zot (250000 gold)
(You found it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)
Miscellaneous
e - a decaying rune of Zot (10000 gold)
(You found it on level 5 of the Swamp)
v - a serpentine rune of Zot (10000 gold)
(You found it on level 5 of the Snake Pit)
S - a silver rune of Zot (10000 gold)
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
You have 9 experience left.
Skills:
+ Level 18 Fighting
+ Level 26 Axes
- Level 1 Maces & Flails
- Level 1 Bows
+ Level 10 Crossbows
+ Level 7 Throwing
+ Level 12 Armour
- Level 1 Stabbing
- Level 1 Shields
+ Level 18 Unarmed Combat
+ Level 1 Spellcasting
+ Level 5 Evocations
You have 25 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Success
Level
a - Confusing Touch Enchantment Poor 1
Mutations & Other Weirdness
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).
You have a fast metabolism.
You can teleport at will.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
Last Messages
Drop which item?
You drop 1238 gold pieces.
Are you sure you want to leave the Dungeon?
You have escaped!
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#.......#..#.#.............
#.......#..#.#...........[.
#.......#....#....#........
#.......#....#....#........
####......@..#....#........
#.........#....#########
#.........###..#########
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#<.....#...............##
#.........###)#........##
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##)...................#...
#.....................#...
ste...@gmail.com
apply my teleport ability, then kill the hell hound next to me while
praying for extra HP, then the controlled teleport got me out of their
before I got hellfired *again*(I tried to melee the pit fiend but I got
tormented and then double hellfired twice!). Along with the orange
brain near-death earlier, it was one of the two scariest moments in my
Crawl career.
Rubinstein
> I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
Congratulations!
I'm still working on this combo (not quite the same: CeFi), but these
days it seems I can't win with *any* combo. :-/
--
Rubinstein
ste...@gmail.com
> ste...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
>
> Congratulations!
Thanks!
> I'm still working on this combo (not quite the same: CeFi), but these
> days it seems I can't win with *any* combo. :-/
Whenever I have been beating my head against a wall for awhile I switch
to an easy combo to gain some confidence back like a Hill Dwarf
Berserker.
Good luck with your Centaur Fighter, I'm curious to see how the light
armour route goes as theoretically it should be better than the heavy
armour route IMO because of the innate penalties they get whenw earing
it.
My best advice would be to make sure you develop unarmed--it was
critical to this character's success even though I wielded a battle axe
for 3/4 of the game and it is one of the few skills Centaurs are
acceptable at. A Monk might actually be the best starting role for a
Centaur...
Rubinstein
> A Monk might actually be the best starting role for a Centaur...
I guess you mean sort of artificial Monk (since the Monk class isn't
available for Centaurs)...
From my previous attempts the most promising route seems to me starting
as a Fighter (best: maces or axes) and then converting to a Hunter as
soon as the first bow appears. Anyway, it's not quite easy and these
days probably just too hot for playing difficult stuff like that. ;-)
--
Rubinstein
Darshan Shaligram
> I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
Congrats, centaurs are HARD.
[...]
> Drop which item?
> You drop 1238 gold pieces.
Why, for the love of Makhleb? :-)
--
Darshan Shaligram <scin...@gmail.com> Deus vult
johan.s...@gmail.com
> I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
Congratulations!
> I posted a thread here: http://tinyurl.com/g4alz that details some of
> the trials I faced with him. I came within 49 HP of dying from
> torment/hellfire combo(no blink scrolls with me, no healing at all...I
> just started running and hoped the pit wouldn't kill me before I got to
> the stairs) on the way back with the Orb and I got drained by an Orange
> statue *again* because of a careless Ctrl+O. I wonder if anyone has
> ever came as close to dying with the Orb as I did with the pit fiend 1
> square away. Thank god for centaur's extra speed saving me a turn.
49HP are plenty. It's when I get down to singledigit HP I really feel
the pressure. ;) And yes, it would've been pretty silly dying with the
Orb. (Do you get extra points from having it in the inventory?)
> My thoughts on Centaurs: Despite winning with CHaoS, I think Centaurs
> are pretty weak. The two things they have going for them are speed and
> hooves. They're not quite as good at unarmed as a minotaur, and they
> have only 100 aptitude, but their extra attacks are quite strong.
>From my understanding they got nerfed since they were much too good in
Crawl 3.3. They have a third thing going for them too: missile skills.
Of course, ranged combat in Crawl isn't as good as the alternatives so
it doesn't really help that much.
> Inventory:
> Hand weapons
> a - a +2,+0 crossbow of flame (354 gold)
> (You took it off a yaktaur on level 1 of the Vaults)
It's unfair: yaktaurs can slaughter you in just a few turns with their
crossbows, but when you use them they're really not that good.
> Jewellery
> n - the amulet of Impermeability (518 gold)
> (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
> This amulet protects some of the possessions of its wearer from
> outright
> destruction, but not infallibly so.
> It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
> It protects you from magic.
> It lets you turn invisible.
> It lets you levitate.
People do complain about the lack of good artifact amulets, but this
one is pretty good.
> Skills:
> + Level 18 Fighting
> + Level 26 Axes
> - Level 1 Maces & Flails
> - Level 1 Bows
> + Level 10 Crossbows
> + Level 7 Throwing
> + Level 12 Armour
> - Level 1 Stabbing
> - Level 1 Shields
> + Level 18 Unarmed Combat
> + Level 1 Spellcasting
> + Level 5 Evocations
I understand your pain about centaurs' bad skill aptitudes.
--
Johan
nyra
>
> Rubinstein wrote:
> > ste...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
> >
> > Congratulations!
Yes, yes! Me, too!
> > I'm still working on this combo (not quite the same: CeFi), but these
> > days it seems I can't win with *any* combo. :-/
>
> Whenever I have been beating my head against a wall for awhile I switch
> to an easy combo to gain some confidence back like a Hill Dwarf
> Berserker.
The big nuisance with centaurs is that they have shoddy-to-awful
aptitudes in everything but ranged combat, and much too low starting
dexterity to start as hunters.
> Good luck with your Centaur Fighter, I'm curious to see how the light
> armour route goes as theoretically it should be better than the heavy
> armour route IMO because of the innate penalties they get whenw earing
> it.
>
> My best advice would be to make sure you develop unarmed--it was
> critical to this character's success even though I wielded a battle axe
> for 3/4 of the game and it is one of the few skills Centaurs are
> acceptable at. A Monk might actually be the best starting role for a
> Centaur...
Except you can't start as one. The closest thing would be a
transmuter, which is what my currently-alive centaur started as (ran a
CeDeath knight [Yredelemnul] into an hourglass vault on D:12, where
the combination of a yaktaur captain, eight-headed hydra, storm dragon
and fire giant proved just a _bit_ too much for a lvl 10 character),
but she is sort-of-stalled currently thanks to the list of
Mutations & Other Weirdness
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You occasionally forget where you are.
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
You are frail (-10 percent hp).
The true killer is the 'lose your temper' one, which makes my lvl 17
Unarmed Combat rather difficult to apply effectively. Now, if i could
get my fingers on a book of Morphology ...
--
Se on Jumalan sana, sanoi mies,
kun akkansa raamatulla löi.
erisdiscordia
> ste...@gmail.com schrieb:
> >
> > Rubinstein wrote:
> > > ste...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > I did it! My third victory! First Centaur VP in 5 years!
> > Whenever I have been beating my head against a wall for awhile I switch
> > to an easy combo to gain some confidence back like a Hill Dwarf
> > Berserker.
>
> The big nuisance with centaurs is that they have shoddy-to-awful
> aptitudes in everything but ranged combat, and much too low starting
> dexterity to start as hunters.
Having better dexterity wouldn't save them, because the help that
dexterity can give isn't enough to be usefully deadly from the very
beginning with a bow if you have the amount of bow skill throwing
skill, and ammo that a hunter starts with. Try an elven hunter to see
what I mean. There's been one report of a hunter that only used his bow
(that player never YAVPed for some reason -- but then, some people win
without YAVPing), but with normal luck, that just isn't going to work.
So -- it's working better, early, with a second mode of attack that
would save centaur hunters, not having better Dex.
If I were to take on the game with a Centaur Hunter, I'd above all
ignore the small upon-creation investment in Short Blades, and grab the
first half-decent weapon I saw, even if it's not a short blade.
> The true killer is the 'lose your temper' one, which makes my lvl 17
> Unarmed Combat rather difficult to apply effectively. Now, if i could
> get my fingers on a book of Morphology ...
You haven't seen frustrating until you've run an Alter Self session
with normal-or-worse hungering. Got some rings of sustenance handy?
e.
Denis
Nice job!
I liked centaurs, the ability to always run away saves them often. I
might try to make another one more capable for hells and pandemonium.
ste...@gmail.com
> > Drop which item?
> > You drop 1238 gold pieces.
>
> Why, for the love of Makhleb? :-)
Weapon : +7,+4 broad axe of Poverty
Hehe. The wield message messages got cut off though(I should have
changed init.txt). Interestingly(okay, maybe only interesting *to me*)
the Broad Axe was valued at 1382 gold which is a rearrangement of the
number 1238. :P
ste...@gmail.com
> 49HP are plenty. It's when I get down to singledigit HP I really feel
> the pressure. ;)
Haha. Has anyone ever died with the Orb? I'd have felt silly if I was
the first.
> > Skills:
> > + Level 18 Fighting
> > + Level 26 Axes
> > - Level 1 Maces & Flails
> > - Level 1 Bows
> > + Level 10 Crossbows
> > + Level 7 Throwing
> > + Level 12 Armour
> > - Level 1 Stabbing
> > - Level 1 Shields
> > + Level 18 Unarmed Combat
> > + Level 1 Spellcasting
> > + Level 5 Evocations
>
> I understand your pain about centaurs' bad skill aptitudes.
Yeah, IMO that's the worst feature of centaurhood... aside from missile
weapons(which left me unenthused), Centaurs range from lackluster to
terrible in every skill.
Pball
>
> Haha. Has anyone ever died with the Orb? I'd have felt silly if I was
> the first.
break my hand. :) I got the "you often get angry when losing" mutation
:P
>
> > > Skills:
> > > + Level 18 Fighting
> > > + Level 26 Axes
> > > - Level 1 Maces & Flails
> > > - Level 1 Bows
> > > + Level 10 Crossbows
> > > + Level 7 Throwing
> > > + Level 12 Armour
> > > - Level 1 Stabbing
> > > - Level 1 Shields
> > > + Level 18 Unarmed Combat
> > > + Level 1 Spellcasting
> > > + Level 5 Evocations
> >
> > I understand your pain about centaurs' bad skill aptitudes.
>
> Yeah, IMO that's the worst feature of centaurhood... aside from missile
> weapons(which left me unenthused), Centaurs range from lackluster to
> terrible in every skill.
I got a CeHu to 27 in bows and throwing without ever hitting with a
weapon. It was a miracle since the ammo is scarce (is that spelled
right?) at best. When I hit the 27 limit I started to bash things with
the bow to expend the exp pool. Died in the vaults. It was fun though
johan.s...@gmail.com
> My thoughts on Centaurs: Despite winning with CHaoS, I think Centaurs
> are pretty weak. The two things they have going for them are speed and
> hooves. They're not quite as good at unarmed as a minotaur, and they
> have only 100 aptitude, but their extra attacks are quite strong.
I got curious and played a few centaurs. It seems like Transmuters
might be a good fit: I managed to get 2 down to level 10 or so (one met
Blork with a wand of lightning, the other got hit with 37 damage from a
giant spore) without that many tries.
Unarmed is one of the few things that centaurs are less bad at, and
they can deal pretty respectable damage with it too (I had no fear of
ogres), and evaporation can serve as a kind of ranged attack -
confusion is often enough to deal with spellcasters and other ranged
attackers, especially since centaurs move fast.
> Don't ge tme started on the hungering thing...probably no race has a
> worse food problem than Centaurs with no sickness resitance, no
> gourmand and 2/3 more hunger points/turn than a human. I was constantly
> around my carrying limit(>80%) for the whole game and I has to play the
> first few levels in Kamakaze mode(didn't wait to heal or recover from
> sickness) until I built up a food supply.
This OTOH, was a major problem. A centaur eats like a horse. :) Running
around hungry and/or sick 75% of the time was a new experience,
interesting in some ways, but fairly stressful.
It definitely made me more impressed by your victory, and I can
understand why they haven't been very popular.
--
Johan
ste...@gmail.com
> ste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > My thoughts on Centaurs: Despite winning with CHaoS, I think Centaurs
> > are pretty weak. The two things they have going for them are speed and
> > hooves. They're not quite as good at unarmed as a minotaur, and they
> > have only 100 aptitude, but their extra attacks are quite strong.
>
> I got curious and played a few centaurs. It seems like Transmuters
> might be a good fit: I managed to get 2 down to level 10 or so (one met
> Blork with a wand of lightning, the other got hit with 37 damage from a
> giant spore) without that many tries.
Transmuters seem like a good combo except the hungering seems like it
would be unbearable--same for all the spellcaster combos. I considered
FEs for Conjure Flame/Ranged Weapons/Speed synergy, but if you play a
CeFE you start with something like 1 skill level in Fire Magic and no
other skills, so I said forget it.