Interested in getting started
curs...@gmail.com
In the past few days I've gotten an interest in starting my own
roguelike project.
The problem is though, that I only have a very basic knowledge of
programming, so I'm asking for some advice.
The language I am far and away the most familiar with is C++, however
I have a friend who knows a good bit of C# and Java (far more than I
know of C++) and said he would be willing to help me learn.
My question is, of those three languages, which would you consider the
best for a beginner and for a roguelike project, and if any of you
have links to informative tutorials for any of those, it would be
greatly appreciated.
As of right now, I think I'm leaning most heavily towards picking up
Java, but I'm still definitely open to suggestions.
Thanks in advance!
Paul Donnelly
> Hello everyone,
>
> In the past few days I've gotten an interest in starting my own
> roguelike project.
>
> The problem is though, that I only have a very basic knowledge of
> programming, so I'm asking for some advice.
>
> The language I am far and away the most familiar with is C++, however
> I have a friend who knows a good bit of C# and Java (far more than I
> know of C++) and said he would be willing to help me learn.
>
> My question is, of those three languages, which would you consider the
> best for a beginner and for a roguelike project, and if any of you
> have links to informative tutorials for any of those, it would be
> greatly appreciated.
I know a fair bit of C++ and Java (the latter rusty, and the former
hopefully soon to be so), but no C#. However, I do hear good things
about C#, and it does seem to have some neat features not in Java. If I
had to work in one of the three, I'd be pretty confident picking it.
Pfhoenix
and running in C#.
- Pfhoenix
http://adeo.pfhoenix.com
ywg....@gmail.com
> In the past few days I've gotten an interest in starting my own
> roguelike project.
>
> The problem is though, that I only have a very basic knowledge of
> programming, so I'm asking for some advice.
If you are familiar with C++, C# and Java won't be too hard to pick
up. They're fairly similar syntactically.
I'd say that either language is equally easy (or hard) to learn for a
relative beginner. If you want to share your game with others then
Java might be a little better choice. There is mono, but in my
experience it's not a perfect, drop-in replacement for
Microsoft's .net runtime.
Dana
konijn_
> relative beginner. If you want to share your game with others then
> Java might be a little better choice. There is mono, but in my
> experience it's not a perfect, drop-in replacement for
> Microsoft's .net runtime.
Of course, you could write for Mono and use MS as a drop-in
replacement ;)
> Dana
heckr...@yahoo.com
I'd go with C++, but that's just me, because I like C. A begginer can
begin with any language. I wouldn't suggest starting with making a C++
multi-inheirited class structure your first time. I also wouldn't
suggest Java for anything with real-time requirements (it's fine for a
RL game though). I've no experience with C#, but wouldn't touch M$'s
Java knockoff for anything less then 60K with bennies. But I digress.
Start with setting up your compiling environment. This depends on your
language, OS, and preference. I can't help you until you choose.
Then compile SOMETHING. Get a 2d grid, make a map, make something
move, make some items, Field of view, make some baddies, yadda yadda
yadda. You need to display this stuff, and if you go with C++,
Ncurses (or PDCurses if you're strictly a windows guy, but good luck,
it's got little documentation)
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/NCURSES-Programming-HOWTO/
Or SDL if you want to go fancy (and probably a better choice then
PDCurses)
http://www.libsdl.org/tutorials.php
An for specific issues:
http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Articles#Implementation
And just so you know, rgrd is a hotbed for programming language
debates, so this is gonna get ugly in a few hours. If I wasn't so
trusting, I'd say you're poking the coals on purpose.
Pre-emptivly,
IT'S TOO HOT, I'M PULLING OUT!
-HeckRuler
zai...@zaimoni.com
>
> In the past few days I've gotten an interest in starting my own
> roguelike project.
>
> The problem is though, that I only have a very basic knowledge of
> programming, so I'm asking for some advice.
>
> The language I am far and away the most familiar with is C++, however
> I have a friend who knows a good bit of C# and Java (far more than I
> know of C++) and said he would be willing to help me learn.
Putting aside my own biases (my dominant programming language is C++,
other fluent languages are Perl and C; I am non-fluent in Java, among
other languages):
Assuming that you are driven enough to actually self-teach all of
this: in your position, I'd be tempted to install working development
environments for all three (C++, Java, and C#) and reimplement the
very early stages in all three languages. Eventually one of the
languages would "start to make more sense" than the other two, and you
could just drop the other two languages at that point.
As for online tutorials: obviously Sun is worthwhile for Java
tutorials. I think the C++ FAQ Lite ( http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
) is about as terse an introduction to C++ that is still complete
enough to be useful, even though it is not a tutorial.
But, frankly, one website won't be enough. Each of these languages is
going to take days of concentrated effort to even become non-fluent
in; you really should be planning on using Google and other search
engines to locate not only tutorials, but coding standards and library
documentation.
curs...@gmail.com
> On May 5, 10:47 am, cursem...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
>
> > In the past few days I've gotten an interest in starting my own
> > roguelike project.
>
> > The problem is though, that I only have a very basic knowledge of
> > programming, so I'm asking for some advice.
>
> > The language I am far and away the most familiar with is C++, however
> > I have a friend who knows a good bit of C# and Java (far more than I
> > know of C++) and said he would be willing to help me learn.
>
> Putting aside my own biases (my dominant programming language is C++,
> other fluent languages are Perl and C; I am non-fluent in Java, among
> other languages):
>
> Assuming that you are driven enough to actually self-teach all of
> this: in your position, I'd be tempted to install working development
> environments for all three (C++, Java, and C#) and reimplement the
> very early stages in all three languages. Eventually one of the
> languages would "start to make more sense" than the other two, and you
> could just drop the other two languages at that point.
>
> As for online tutorials: obviously Sun is worthwhile for Java
> ) is about as terse an introduction to C++ that is still complete
> enough to be useful, even though it is not a tutorial.
>
> But, frankly, one website won't be enough. Each of these languages is
> going to take days of concentrated effort to even become non-fluent
> in; you really should be planning on using Google and other search
> engines to locate not only tutorials, but coding standards and library
> documentation.
I realize that it's going to take a fair amount of time and study to
get going with this. What I'm mostly looking for is a good online
references to check when I need them, and advice on a good beginner's
language. It sounds like opinions are mixed here on what language
would be the best choice. If I used C#, how much would that limit the
number of systems this would work on?
Perdurabo
>
> And just so you know, rgrd is a hotbed for programming language
> debates, so this is gonna get ugly in a few hours. If I wasn't so
> trusting, I'd say you're poking the coals on purpose.
>
Is it? ;-)
I thought "what language you're most familiar with" is pretty much the
standard consensus answer nowadays.
Best,
P
Krice
> My question is, of those three languages, which would you consider the
> best for a beginner and for a roguelike project
If you need to ask that question then you are not ready to make
a roguelike. Or anything:D
Nik Coughlin
news:de224955-a8bc-499b...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I realize that it's going to take a fair amount of time and study to
> get going with this. What I'm mostly looking for is a good online
> references to check when I need them, and advice on a good beginner's
> language. It sounds like opinions are mixed here on what language
> would be the best choice. If I used C#, how much would that limit the
> number of systems this would work on?
It wouldn't limit it. For something like a roguelike Mono will work
perfectly. It works fine even for some of my more complex Windows Forms
apps, despite all the naysaying (but what would I know, I only have real
world experience doing this rather than something I read on the Internet).
That said, I have seen one app where the interface was messed up in Mono but
worked fine under .NET, but I doubt you'll be doing anything so
sophisticated to come up against that. I like the suggestion made elsewhere
in this thread though, try Java and C# and see which one feels best to you.
Java as a language is nice to use, C# is nice to use, both have good
frameworks behind them.
Paul Donnelly
Well sure, that's how it starts. No one wants to throw the first
punch. But then somebody says a bad word about your favorite language
(or worse, good things about that language you really hate), and it's
open season.
zai...@zaimoni.com
> I realize that it's going to take a fair amount of time and study to
> get going with this. What I'm mostly looking for is a good online
> references to check when I need them, and advice on a good beginner's
> language.
Frankly, I don't think any of C++, C#, or Java are good beginner's
languages. They are all reasonably practical object-oriented
languages, and with your stated lack of expertise in C++ I don't
foresee a lot of destructive interference initially from trying to
learn all three at once.
The closest thing to a beginner's language that actually has (or used
to have) a job market would have to be either Pascal (cf. Perturabo)
or COBOL. Neither of these are excellent choices for those whose sole
prior experience is with C-like syntax (which you do). If you had
prior experience with BASIC-like syntax, Pascal would be good. For no
experience at all, I'd consider COBOL for sheer lack of learning curve
before learning a more typical language.
> It sounds like opinions are mixed here on what language
> would be the best choice. If I used C#, how much would that limit the
> number of systems this would work on?
As long as you target Mono rather than .NET runtime for C#, C# should
be less limiting than Java. Mono is easier to port to new platforms
than Java, due to a design error in Sun's build process for their
JVM. (There are other JVMs out there, but as far as a quick Google
search can tell they are running 3-4 major versions behind Sun).
Nate879
because it's not portable, it's slow, and it doesn't have many useful
features that C and C++ have, such as macros. I don't know about
Java. C and C++ are not easy to learn, but they have lots of
excellent tutorials all over the web. A good one for C++ is
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/.
zai...@zaimoni.com
> On May 5, 2:58 pm, cursem...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I realize that it's going to take a fair amount of time and study to
> > get going with this. What I'm mostly looking for is a good online
> > references to check when I need them, and advice on a good beginner's
> > language.
>
> Frankly, I don't think any of C++, C#, or Java are good beginner's
> languages. They are all reasonably practical object-oriented
> languages, and with your stated lack of expertise in C++ I don't
> foresee a lot of destructive interference initially from trying to
> learn all three at once.
However, since C++ is what you have the most experience in I would
recommend sticking to C-like languages for writing a roguelike
immediately. In your situation, C-like syntax is more important than
using a beginner's language.
> The closest thing to a beginner's language that actually has (or used
> to have) a job market would have to be either Pascal (cf. Perturabo)
> or COBOL. ....
Perdurabo; apologies for the spelling error.
zai...@zaimoni.com
http://www.cplusplus.com/ is a good first place to check in general
for details on the C and C++ libraries, short of having the actual
standards on the hard drive.
1) Slow is not a big problem for a roguelike. I generally don't use
language machine speed as a criterion except for scientific/math and
graphics-intensive programs.
2) Mono's stated currently-available targets are: "Linux, Solaris, Mac
OS X, Windows, and Unix". I do not see much of a portability problem
with that list, so I would consider C# portable. I do see a problem
with Sun's portability list: Linux, Solaris, and Windows. [I'm not
about to recheck Sun's build procedure for Java, but back in 2001 it
was, ahem, surreal; it is not easy to port the Sun JVM to other
platforms, even if you have a working Java 1.1.x to start the
bootstrap.] You have to fall back to JVM 1.1.x before
reimplementations of Java are widespread (giving portability).
3) C preprocessor macros are a controversial feature. I like them as
they're familiar, but I wouldn't use them as a make-or-break feature
in deciding which language to intensively study.
Paul Donnelly
> I think you should use C or C++. You probably shouldn't use C#,
> because it's not portable, it's slow, and it doesn't have many useful
> features that C and C++ have, such as macros.
False, false, and it has many useful features that C and C++ don't
have. Automatic memory management being a big one (yes, I know there are
GCs for C and C++).
Perdurabo
> > Frankly, I don't think any of C++, C#, or Java are good beginner's
> > languages. They are all reasonably practical object-oriented
> > languages, and with your stated lack of expertise in C++ I don't
> > foresee a lot of destructive interference initially from trying to
> > learn all three at once.
>
> However, since C++ is what you have the most experience in I would
> recommend sticking to C-like languages for writing a roguelike
> immediately. In your situation, C-like syntax is more important than
> using a beginner's language.
> Perdurabo; apologies for the spelling error.
No worries old bean. Your advice is stellar, btw, and I concur.
To the OP, unless there is a *compelling* reason to code it in a
language you don't know, stick to what you know.
Best,
P.
curs...@gmail.com
The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
Anyway, thanks again for everyone's advice. I'll take it all into
consideration.
Here's another question. I want to use tile graphics rather than
ascii. What would be good to use for this? Simplicity would
definitely be the most important thing here. In the other discussion,
someone recommended SDL, would this probably be my best bet?
zai...@zaimoni.com
> Here's another question. I want to use tile graphics rather than
> ascii. What would be good to use for this? Simplicity would
> definitely be the most important thing here. In the other discussion,
> someone recommended SDL, would this probably be my best bet?
I would think Gerry Quinn and Jeff Lait would be more informed than I;
they have hands-on experience in tiled roguelikes. My interest is
more in multiple rendering engines (curses and isometric graphics) for
the same game.
SDL is a technically decent choice for a roguelike, less so for a more
animated game. The LGPL licensing isn't that bad (just do the default
dynamic linking to avoid license contamination of your entire
program). The advantage is that you only need to learn one API for
multiple operating systems, as SDL handles the operating-system
specific APIs for you.
There are maybe two or three other cross-platform graphics libraries I
would consider for a roguelike, but they are not as recently
maintained.
Jeff Lait
> On May 5, 6:40 pm, Perdurabo <perdurab...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 6, 12:14 am, zaim...@zaimoni.com wrote:
>
> > > > Frankly, I don't think any of C++, C#, or Java are good beginner's
> > > > languages. They are all reasonably practical object-oriented
> > > > languages, and with your stated lack of expertise in C++ I don't
> > > > foresee a lot of destructive interference initially from trying to
> > > > learn all three at once.
>
> > > However, since C++ is what you have the most experience in I would
> > > recommend sticking to C-like languages for writing a roguelike
> > > immediately. In your situation, C-like syntax is more important than
> > > using a beginner's language.
> > > Perdurabo; apologies for the spelling error.
>
> > No worries old bean. Your advice is stellar, btw, and I concur.
>
> > To the OP, unless there is a *compelling* reason to code it in a
> > language you don't know, stick to what you know.
>
> > Best,
> > P.
>
> The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
> be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
> could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
> rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
Well, then there really is no question. Go ahead and write the
original rogue. When you've done that, you'll have a much better idea
what your deficiencies are and how to approach your dream roguelike.
> Here's another question. I want to use tile graphics rather than
> ascii. What would be good to use for this? Simplicity would
> definitely be the most important thing here. In the other discussion,
> someone recommended SDL, would this probably be my best bet?
SDL is very simple. I have some simple roguelikes using dual SDL/
curses that you can find, such as:
http://www.zincland.com/7drl/liveonce
However, if you want to go full-on tile graphics you don't want to
keep a curses back end as assumptions about character display will
constrain your choices.
I'm probably a bad one to ask for such advice, though, since I just
use SDL as a dumb frame buffer and roll my own compositing tile engine
on top of it.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Martin Read
>From how much I know of C++, I could probably make a game technically
>equivalent to the original rogue, if that gives any indicator of where
>I'm at.
Go do so, then. It is by *doing* that one learns to program.
--
\_\/_/ some girls wander by mistake into the mess that scalpels make
\ / are you the teachers of my heart? we teach old hearts to break
\/ --- Leonard Cohen, "Teachers"
E. Liddell
> 2) Mono's stated currently-available targets are: "Linux, Solaris, Mac
> OS X, Windows, and Unix". I do not see much of a portability problem
> with that list, so I would consider C# portable. I do see a problem
> with Sun's portability list: Linux, Solaris, and Windows. [I'm not
> about to recheck Sun's build procedure for Java, but back in 2001 it
> was, ahem, surreal; it is not easy to port the Sun JVM to other
> platforms, even if you have a working Java 1.1.x to start the
> bootstrap.] You have to fall back to JVM 1.1.x before
> reimplementations of Java are widespread (giving portability).
Sun is currently at version 1.6 (AKA 6), distributing versions for the OSs
you mention.
The Mac people have their own version of Java, *also* at version 1.6
and distributed with OSX.
The third-party BSD port appears to be one version behind (1.5).
I wouldn't worry about not being able to find a reasonably recent JVM
for any platform with a significant number of users.
R. Dan Henry
>The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
>be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
>could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
>rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
Complexity equal to Rogue is an excellent goal for your initial game.
And in writing it, you'll learn a lot and be prepared to either extend
that first game or write a new one with improved techniques.
--
R. Dan Henry = danh...@inreach.com
If you wish to put anything I post on your website,
please be polite enough to ask first.
Gerry Quinn
d74ee6...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, curs...@gmail.com says...
> The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
> be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
> could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
> rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
That's morer than good enough to start!
Of course, the other question is what happens the project if one of you
loses interest/ Most roguelikes are solo projects.
- Gerry Quinn
--
Lair of the Demon Ape (a coffee-break roguelike)
<http://indigo.ie/~gerryq/lair/lair.htm>
Gerry Quinn
7c79bb...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, zai...@zaimoni.com says...
> On May 5, 9:56 pm, cursem...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Here's another question. I want to use tile graphics rather than
> > ascii. What would be good to use for this? Simplicity would
> > definitely be the most important thing here. In the other discussion,
> > someone recommended SDL, would this probably be my best bet?
>
> I would think Gerry Quinn and Jeff Lait would be more informed than I;
> they have hands-on experience in tiled roguelikes. My interest is
> more in multiple rendering engines (curses and isometric graphics) for
> the same game.
I decided not to comment in case you were interested in portability - I
use a custom MFC-based sprite system that is convenient for me, but is
Windows only (works on Windows emulators though).
> SDL is a technically decent choice for a roguelike, less so for a more
> animated game. The LGPL licensing isn't that bad (just do the default
> dynamic linking to avoid license contamination of your entire
> program). The advantage is that you only need to learn one API for
> multiple operating systems, as SDL handles the operating-system
> specific APIs for you.
Indeed, I suspect that SDL is probably the way to go, unless like me you
are targeting a single platform and you already have something that
works on that - but I don't really know.
Derek Ray
> 7c79bb...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, zai...@zaimoni.com says...
>> SDL is a technically decent choice for a roguelike, less so for a more
>> animated game. The LGPL licensing isn't that bad (just do the default
>> dynamic linking to avoid license contamination of your entire
>> program). The advantage is that you only need to learn one API for
>> multiple operating systems, as SDL handles the operating-system
>> specific APIs for you.
>
> Indeed, I suspect that SDL is probably the way to go, unless like me you
> are targeting a single platform and you already have something that
> works on that - but I don't really know.
Caveat: I haven't used SDL directly yet, so this is not coming from
experience or anything. That said, what I know about it so far
indicates that it's both relatively easy to work with _and_ has the
advantage of portability if you desire; it would certainly be what I
would choose if I was going to build a graphical (foo) from scratch.
--
Derek
Game info and change log: http://sporkhack.com
Beta Server: telnet://sporkhack.com
IRC: irc.freenode.net, #sporkhack
Gerry Quinn
danh...@inreach.com says...
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:56:52 -0700 (PDT), curs...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
> >be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
> >could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
> >rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
>
> Complexity equal to Rogue is an excellent goal for your initial game.
> And in writing it, you'll learn a lot and be prepared to either extend
> that first game or write a new one with improved techniques.
Yes, it is a nice size of target. Too many developers attempt to make
something bigger than Nethack. Ecen if it gets finished... who will
want to take on *playing* such a monstrosity unless it's great? A
smaller game is easier to make complete, winnable, and reasonably
balanced, and will not be so intimidating to new players, even if it is
not at a finished stage.
And with a fixed size target, balancing is instantly easier. You can
set up basic scaling parameters for items, monsters and player strength
from day one.
stu
wrote:> > 7c79bbeb6...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, zaim...@zaimoni.com says...
> >> SDL is a technically decent choice for a roguelike, less so for a more
> >> animated game. The LGPL licensing isn't that bad (just do the default
> >> dynamic linking to avoid license contamination of your entire
> >> program). The advantage is that you only need to learn one API for
> >> multiple operating systems, as SDL handles the operating-system
> >> specific APIs for you.
>
> > Indeed, I suspect that SDL is probably the way to go, unless like me you
> > are targeting a single platform and you already have something that
> > works on that - but I don't really know.
>
> Caveat: I haven't used SDL directly yet, so this is not coming from
> experience or anything. That said, what I know about it so far
> indicates that it's both relatively easy to work with _and_ has the
> advantage of portability if you desire; it would certainly be what I
> would choose if I was going to build a graphical (foo) from scratch.
>
SDL is a cakewalk for a roguelike :)
- Stu
Perdurabo
> In article <926134dd-a969-4c99-a14c-
> d74ee678e...@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, cursem...@gmail.com says...
>
> > The only compelling reason to not use C++ is because my friend would
> > be able to teach me the other two. From how much I know of C++, I
> > could probably make a game technically equivalent to the original
> > rogue, if that gives any indicator of where I'm at.
>
> That's morer than good enough to start!
>
> Of course, the other question is what happens the project if one of you
> loses interest/ Most roguelikes are solo projects.
>
> - Gerry Quinn
> --
Agreed. The OP would be better off with C++, given his current
situation. Using C#, excellent though it is, would be another barrier
put in the way of completion.
Best,
P.
dominik...@gmail.com
know more than necessary to write a game. Bear in mind that you'll be
learning a whole lot while you code and by the time you start coding
something difficult, you'll probably be able to do it. Just look at
me. I knew nearly nothing about coding in any language when I first
appeared on RGRD, asking whether there was someone interested in
coding my ideas (look at Krice's response to your post to get the
feeling of what I had to read, heh, heh). And I retook the coder's
path, abandoned many years back. I began by learning Java (with some
technical from Slash - thanks, man!), then returned to C, got hold of
TCODlib (thanks, Jice!) and look at me! Umbrarum Regnum is a
functional mini game already! You'll be able to do the same (or much
better, since my C still sucks and from what you say, I deduce that
you're probably not that bad a coder, simply too modest to admit it).
The language choice is yours entirely, there's no best language to
write a RL (nor any other program). The best one is that you're most
familiar with. And that seems to be C++. Go for it, man!
For Java and C++ manuals, visit http://www.mindviewinc.com/Books/ to
grab (legally and free of charge) Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java" and
"Thinking in C++". They're extremely good manuals. BTW, don't count
too much on your friends. They might explain you some details, but I
doubt they'll be willing to give you private lessons. The two
aforementioned manuals will provide answers, though :).
Good luck with your RL.
Mingos.
curs...@gmail.com
I'll see if I can't figure out what I'm doing with SDL in C++, and I
may still experiment with other options depending on how that goes.
On May 6, 8:05 am, Gerry Quinn <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote:
> In article <97lv14t3lajbnuctavmtt3ph971c3mn...@4ax.com>,
> danhe...@inreach.com says...
Yeah, I'm aware of the temptation for a developer to bite off way more
than they can chew. My current plan is as follows:
1. Produce a very simple, very basic skeleton of a game, more as a
tutorial for myself than anything. Something that generates a basic
dungeon, lets the player walk around, and maybe beat up on an npc or
something, and nothing more. This is only to serve as practice and a
learning experience, so I won't worry about whether it's fun or
polished.
2. The next step will be to make "Necromancer's Tower," a coffeebreak
7drl style game. Something small and relatively simple, but actually
fun and playable. The intention here is to make a good quality game
rather than a high quantity game. The goal will be to stick with this
until I have something that I'm happy with, and something that people
would enjoy playing, and to take my time making this one polished.
3. The last step, if I complete the rest, and am still motivated to
go on, is to start on the Guardian Project, which is planned to be a
bigger adventure, more like ADOM and similar games. The thinking is
that Necromancer's Tower will give me a) the practice I need to take
something like this on, and b) either a basic framework of code to
work with for something like this, or the knowledge of what I will
need to write it.
Even taking it in smaller steps like this though, I can't promise that
I'll complete all of this, but I definitely want to give it a try.
Gerry Quinn
fba0e7...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, curs...@gmail.com says...
> On May 6, 8:05 am, Gerry Quinn <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote:
> > In article <97lv14t3lajbnuctavmtt3ph971c3mn...@4ax.com>,
> > danhe...@inreach.com says...
> > Yes, it is a nice size of target. Too many developers attempt to make
> > something bigger than Nethack. Ecen if it gets finished... who will
> > want to take on *playing* such a monstrosity unless it's great? A
> > smaller game is easier to make complete, winnable, and reasonably
> > balanced, and will not be so intimidating to new players, even if it is
> > not at a finished stage.
> >
> > And with a fixed size target, balancing is instantly easier. You can
> > set up basic scaling parameters for items, monsters and player strength
> > from day one.
> > Lair of the Demon Ape (a coffee-break roguelike)
> > <http://indigo.ie/~gerryq/lair/lair.htm>
>
> Yeah, I'm aware of the temptation for a developer to bite off way more
> than they can chew. My current plan is as follows:
>
> 1. Produce a very simple, very basic skeleton of a game, more as a
> tutorial for myself than anything. Something that generates a basic
> dungeon, lets the player walk around, and maybe beat up on an npc or
> something, and nothing more. This is only to serve as practice and a
> learning experience, so I won't worry about whether it's fun or
> polished.
>
> 2. The next step will be to make "Necromancer's Tower," a coffeebreak
> 7drl style game. Something small and relatively simple, but actually
> fun and playable. The intention here is to make a good quality game
> rather than a high quantity game. The goal will be to stick with this
> until I have something that I'm happy with, and something that people
> would enjoy playing, and to take my time making this one polished.
This was the idea with my game Lair, too.
> 3. The last step, if I complete the rest, and am still motivated to
> go on, is to start on the Guardian Project, which is planned to be a
> bigger adventure, more like ADOM and similar games. The thinking is
> that Necromancer's Tower will give me a) the practice I need to take
> something like this on, and b) either a basic framework of code to
> work with for something like this, or the knowledge of what I will
> need to write it.
>
> Even taking it in smaller steps like this though, I can't promise that
> I'll complete all of this, but I definitely want to give it a try.
Well, even doing a small game will be an achievement.
- Gerry Quinn