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Tile set project
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Hamish
Dec 1, 2011, 7:20:25 PM12/1/11
to
Hello People,
I have started working on a tileset and would love to get some
feedback. The work I have done so far is sat on by blog at
[url]http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/[/url]
Hopefully when I am done I'll have made a large consistent looking set
with a good range of parts for making dungeons and overworld
locations. It would be big help if I knew what sorts of things people
would like to see included.
Cheers
Tom
I have started working on a tileset and would love to get some
feedback. The work I have done so far is sat on by blog at
[url]http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/[/url]
Hopefully when I am done I'll have made a large consistent looking set
with a good range of parts for making dungeons and overworld
locations. It would be big help if I knew what sorts of things people
would like to see included.
Cheers
Tom
Björn Ritzl
Dec 2, 2011, 6:02:27 AM12/2/11
to
Good work! I will subscribe to the blog and keep track of your progress for sure!
Personally I think it's a shame that you went for 8x8 and not 16x16, but I guess that's a matter of personal taste.
Have you done any wokr on map/dungeon tiles yet? And is there a way to see the full tileset?
/Björn
Personally I think it's a shame that you went for 8x8 and not 16x16, but I guess that's a matter of personal taste.
Have you done any wokr on map/dungeon tiles yet? And is there a way to see the full tileset?
/Björn
Hamish
Dec 2, 2011, 7:10:04 AM12/2/11
to
Thanks for the feedback Bjorn,
Yes, I have done quite a bit of work on dungeon and map tiles, I'll be
posting some of it up over the weekend. The system I have worked out
uses 21 different tiles (front wall side walls, corners and such like)
to create dungeons and I am wondering if that will turn out to be a
deal breaker for some people. I guess people can just use the basic
wall + back wall tiles if they wanted to keep things simple.
In addition to a variaty of dungeon themes, I'm going to put alot of
work into overworld graphics. I'd like the overworld to have a
different texture of play but not just be a massive field with single
block trees, so I've started work on cliff systems, bodies of water,
networks of thorn bushes, and multistory buildings with different
styles of roof. To get this stuff working with PCG will take a bit of
effort but hopefully the results will be rewarding enough for someone
to give it a go.
When I've gathered up a bit of feedback on what people want and how
they want it packaged I will bundle up everything I've got into sprite
sheets, hopefully in about a month. If there is anything you would
like to see included in terms of enemies items and terrain let me
know, I'm happy to tackle requests.
I know what you mean about the 16x16 tiles, but I think there is
enough quality stuff around already, like the tiles you've used in
dweller. I thought if I had too many pixels to play with it would
encourage me to be too specific with the imagery - the whole idea was
to keep a level of abstraction that engages the imagination.
Tom
Yes, I have done quite a bit of work on dungeon and map tiles, I'll be
posting some of it up over the weekend. The system I have worked out
uses 21 different tiles (front wall side walls, corners and such like)
to create dungeons and I am wondering if that will turn out to be a
deal breaker for some people. I guess people can just use the basic
wall + back wall tiles if they wanted to keep things simple.
In addition to a variaty of dungeon themes, I'm going to put alot of
work into overworld graphics. I'd like the overworld to have a
different texture of play but not just be a massive field with single
block trees, so I've started work on cliff systems, bodies of water,
networks of thorn bushes, and multistory buildings with different
styles of roof. To get this stuff working with PCG will take a bit of
effort but hopefully the results will be rewarding enough for someone
to give it a go.
When I've gathered up a bit of feedback on what people want and how
they want it packaged I will bundle up everything I've got into sprite
sheets, hopefully in about a month. If there is anything you would
like to see included in terms of enemies items and terrain let me
know, I'm happy to tackle requests.
I know what you mean about the 16x16 tiles, but I think there is
enough quality stuff around already, like the tiles you've used in
dweller. I thought if I had too many pixels to play with it would
encourage me to be too specific with the imagery - the whole idea was
to keep a level of abstraction that engages the imagination.
Tom
Pikalek
Dec 2, 2011, 11:28:04 AM12/2/11
to
Nice work. I really liked the Robert E. Howard quote accompanying the
Neanderthals and Great Apes set - while it doesn't change the art per
se, it sort of helps to mentally frame it.
Regarding the 8x8 vs. 16x16: if someone wanted to, your sets could
always be scaled up (nearest neighbor if you wanted it blocky or
something with more finesse like hq2x or 2xSaI). One potential
problem with the smaller size: will the sprites get lost when placed
on a background tile? Depends on the particulars I suppose, but I
just thought I'd throw it out there.
Neanderthals and Great Apes set - while it doesn't change the art per
se, it sort of helps to mentally frame it.
Regarding the 8x8 vs. 16x16: if someone wanted to, your sets could
always be scaled up (nearest neighbor if you wanted it blocky or
something with more finesse like hq2x or 2xSaI). One potential
problem with the smaller size: will the sprites get lost when placed
on a background tile? Depends on the particulars I suppose, but I
just thought I'd throw it out there.
Hamish
Dec 2, 2011, 12:02:36 PM12/2/11
to
Yeah, that is a problem with sprites that small, no space for an
outline. So far I have kept floor tiles pretty dark and not too busy,
it seems to work well, I think I just need to be careful in choosing
the pallet for background tiles and not repeat colours already used in
sprites. A part of me wants to use plain black for the floor, there is
something gripping about the digital void that you explore in Ascii
roguelikes, I don't think my pride will allow it though :¬)
Aside from the lord of the rings, the greater bulk of fantasy I have
read has been Conan - pure awesome. I'm going to try and take most of
my cues from medieval themes and pulp fantasy, D'n'D is all well and
good but I think its influence is a little bit too pervasive - under
no circumstances will I be spriting a gelatinous cube for example.
outline. So far I have kept floor tiles pretty dark and not too busy,
it seems to work well, I think I just need to be careful in choosing
the pallet for background tiles and not repeat colours already used in
sprites. A part of me wants to use plain black for the floor, there is
something gripping about the digital void that you explore in Ascii
roguelikes, I don't think my pride will allow it though :¬)
Aside from the lord of the rings, the greater bulk of fantasy I have
read has been Conan - pure awesome. I'm going to try and take most of
my cues from medieval themes and pulp fantasy, D'n'D is all well and
good but I think its influence is a little bit too pervasive - under
no circumstances will I be spriting a gelatinous cube for example.
Pasi Kallinen
Dec 3, 2011, 6:45:13 AM12/3/11
to
Hamish <thomas....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello People,
>
> I have started working on a tileset and would love to get some
> feedback. The work I have done so far is sat on by blog at
> [url]http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/[/url]
>
Nice. There aren't very many tilesets that small. I especially
> Hello People,
>
> I have started working on a tileset and would love to get some
> feedback. The work I have done so far is sat on by blog at
> [url]http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/[/url]
>
like the wall tiles. And all the different wall pieces won't
be a problem code-wise, it should be relatively easy
to use them.
Maybe some more wall decorations and other dungeon features?
Also, you might want to check the major roguelikes for what
tiles they might need. (Personally, I'm interested in NetHack;)
--
Pasi Kallinen
pa...@alt.org
http://bilious.alt.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database
JO
Dec 3, 2011, 6:28:23 PM12/3/11
to
Robert E. Howard's stuff is fantastic. Have you read Almuric? I read
it about once a year.
it about once a year.
JO
Dec 3, 2011, 7:00:52 PM12/3/11
to
On Dec 3, 3:28 pm, JO <josephbradshaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert E. Howard's stuff is fantastic. Have you read Almuric? I read
> it about once a year.
Most of the time it seems Howard will use normal creatures that are
> Robert E. Howard's stuff is fantastic. Have you read Almuric? I read
> it about once a year.
either more intelligent or larger than normal. But the real baddies
are wizards, cults and the occasional demi-god come to some sadistic
mortal form. The baddies are generally isolated and singular (or at
least rare). No cities full of dwarves and stuff.
In Almuric there is a race of winged bat creatures that torment the
land. But that's the only high population monsters I can recall from
his tales.
Hamish
Dec 5, 2011, 6:02:08 PM12/5/11
to
@Pasi - thanks for the feedback, I intend to have multiple
alternatives for each tile to add variety. I've also started to make
furniture for dungeons, stuff like gongs for monsters to sound,
alters, containers etc.
I'll check out some of the major games to make sure i get the basics
covered.
@Jo - yeah, i've read Almuric, wasn't there also some spider
worshiping race of troglodytes living in a ruined city? You're right
that the baddies are mostly singular monstrosities, but their are
plenty of cults and degenerate tribes of cannibals - in king kull
there were snake men too.
I'm also going to make some multi tile boss enemies for giant serpents
or amorphous lovecraftian horrors.
alternatives for each tile to add variety. I've also started to make
furniture for dungeons, stuff like gongs for monsters to sound,
alters, containers etc.
I'll check out some of the major games to make sure i get the basics
covered.
@Jo - yeah, i've read Almuric, wasn't there also some spider
worshiping race of troglodytes living in a ruined city? You're right
that the baddies are mostly singular monstrosities, but their are
plenty of cults and degenerate tribes of cannibals - in king kull
there were snake men too.
I'm also going to make some multi tile boss enemies for giant serpents
or amorphous lovecraftian horrors.
JO
Dec 6, 2011, 10:57:25 PM12/6/11
to
I think it's sort of nifty trivia that Lovecraft and Howard were
buddies.
buddies.
Hamish
Dec 11, 2011, 6:16:55 PM12/11/11
to
Hey people,
Although I've still got a lot to do, I probably have enough stuff done
to make my first version sprite sheet, but I need a bit of advice.
I know basically what to do (correct me if I'm wrong) - take out all
the spaces between the sprites, set them against a transparent
background and save them as a PNG. I've not done it before though and
have a few questions.
one:
Should I save monsters to one image file, furnature to a second and
background tiles to a third? or should I save them all to one large
file?
two:
I don't want to mess up peoples referencing by moving things around
later when im adding content. Should I leave empty space for later
additions? For example, at the moment I have ten pirates, is it a good
idea to make the file 15 blocks wide and leave the extra space for
other piratey stuff I add later?
three:
Is transparency ok to use? specifically I was thinking to put 50%
opacity shadows under monster sprites to help ground them a bit. Will
this cause problems for anyone and should I make a shadowless version
of the files.
four:
Would it be helpful if I included a reference table for the sprites,
and if so what format should it be?
five:
The only thing I was planning on animating was water and fire - just
two frame boils. Do i just set the two frames next to each other on
the tile sheet or what?
Sorry for the big dump of questions, I just want to package this stuff
up in the most accessible and useful way possible. Any advice you guys
can offer would be great, or if you know of any resources I could look
at let me know.
I already posted this on the TotR forums, but thought some different
folk might see it here.
Thanks for your help.
T
Although I've still got a lot to do, I probably have enough stuff done
to make my first version sprite sheet, but I need a bit of advice.
I know basically what to do (correct me if I'm wrong) - take out all
the spaces between the sprites, set them against a transparent
background and save them as a PNG. I've not done it before though and
have a few questions.
one:
Should I save monsters to one image file, furnature to a second and
background tiles to a third? or should I save them all to one large
file?
two:
I don't want to mess up peoples referencing by moving things around
later when im adding content. Should I leave empty space for later
additions? For example, at the moment I have ten pirates, is it a good
idea to make the file 15 blocks wide and leave the extra space for
other piratey stuff I add later?
three:
Is transparency ok to use? specifically I was thinking to put 50%
opacity shadows under monster sprites to help ground them a bit. Will
this cause problems for anyone and should I make a shadowless version
of the files.
four:
Would it be helpful if I included a reference table for the sprites,
and if so what format should it be?
five:
The only thing I was planning on animating was water and fire - just
two frame boils. Do i just set the two frames next to each other on
the tile sheet or what?
Sorry for the big dump of questions, I just want to package this stuff
up in the most accessible and useful way possible. Any advice you guys
can offer would be great, or if you know of any resources I could look
at let me know.
I already posted this on the TotR forums, but thought some different
folk might see it here.
Thanks for your help.
T
Björn Ritzl
Dec 12, 2011, 2:39:41 AM12/12/11
to
If I were to decide on my own I'd say:
1. One for monsters, One for items, One for map features (and possibly one for things like furniture, statues, altars etc)
2. Keep the file a fixed width, say 16 tiles per row, and add stuff to the bottom of the file. To me it doesn't really matter if you have all pirates one after the next or scattered around the file. It is ofcourse more practical to have all pirates in one section of the file and all goblins in another, but it really has no effect on implementation. Don't every start moving things around though. Once you've put a tile in a certain position keep it there!
3. Yes, transparency is fine most of the time. But for something like an old Java handset (J2ME) there isn't full support for semitransparency.
4. Yes, very helpful. A textfile with one tile per row, preceeded by a 0-based index. Index 0 is top left corner of image. Index 15 is the rightmost tile of the first row (assuming 16 tiles per row). Index 16 is the first tile of the second row, and so on
5. It depends a bit on how the game will handle animations. There's no harm in having the second frame next to the first.
Looking forward to seeing the first version of the sprite sheet(s)!
Regards,
Björn
1. One for monsters, One for items, One for map features (and possibly one for things like furniture, statues, altars etc)
2. Keep the file a fixed width, say 16 tiles per row, and add stuff to the bottom of the file. To me it doesn't really matter if you have all pirates one after the next or scattered around the file. It is ofcourse more practical to have all pirates in one section of the file and all goblins in another, but it really has no effect on implementation. Don't every start moving things around though. Once you've put a tile in a certain position keep it there!
3. Yes, transparency is fine most of the time. But for something like an old Java handset (J2ME) there isn't full support for semitransparency.
4. Yes, very helpful. A textfile with one tile per row, preceeded by a 0-based index. Index 0 is top left corner of image. Index 15 is the rightmost tile of the first row (assuming 16 tiles per row). Index 16 is the first tile of the second row, and so on
5. It depends a bit on how the game will handle animations. There's no harm in having the second frame next to the first.
Looking forward to seeing the first version of the sprite sheet(s)!
Regards,
Björn
Hamish
Dec 15, 2011, 7:37:04 AM12/15/11
to
Thanks for the advice Björn,
I think I'll stick with three spritesheets, each measuring 25 by 40
tiles. 1000 slots makes for a tidy index and plenty of room for
expansion.
Just to clarify, my textfile should look like
000 bandit
001 bandit with knife
002 bandit with club
...etc
Also one other question - The item graphics take up multiple slots
(tetris style) Im guessing I should sort these by size and shape
leaving the gaps empty? and if so how would I index them?
Thanks so much for the help.
Hamish
Incidentally, I am enjoying the adverts for ceiling tiles and shower
panels that adsence is putting up. Its going to get really excited now
i've specifically mentioned them :¬)
I think I'll stick with three spritesheets, each measuring 25 by 40
tiles. 1000 slots makes for a tidy index and plenty of room for
expansion.
Just to clarify, my textfile should look like
000 bandit
001 bandit with knife
002 bandit with club
...etc
Also one other question - The item graphics take up multiple slots
(tetris style) Im guessing I should sort these by size and shape
leaving the gaps empty? and if so how would I index them?
Thanks so much for the help.
Hamish
Incidentally, I am enjoying the adverts for ceiling tiles and shower
panels that adsence is putting up. Its going to get really excited now
i've specifically mentioned them :¬)
Pasi Kallinen
Dec 15, 2011, 9:41:02 AM12/15/11
to
Hamish <thomas....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice Björn,
>
> I think I'll stick with three spritesheets, each measuring 25 by 40
> tiles. 1000 slots makes for a tidy index and plenty of room for
> expansion.
>
> Just to clarify, my textfile should look like
>
> 000 bandit
> 001 bandit with knife
> 002 bandit with club
> ...etc
That looks just fine to me. The most important thing is that
> Thanks for the advice Björn,
>
> I think I'll stick with three spritesheets, each measuring 25 by 40
> tiles. 1000 slots makes for a tidy index and plenty of room for
> expansion.
>
> Just to clarify, my textfile should look like
>
> 000 bandit
> 001 bandit with knife
> 002 bandit with club
> ...etc
the file can be processed easily with a bit a code.
>
> Also one other question - The item graphics take up multiple slots
> (tetris style) Im guessing I should sort these by size and shape
> leaving the gaps empty? and if so how would I index them?
and vertical tiles it takes up, in the text file. Also, mark the
unused tiles in the item graphic somehow.
Again, the important thing is that the text file can be easily
processed with a bit of code.
For example (and this is off the top of my head, so might not be
suitable):
In the tile graphics:
AABBBCCC
AxxxCCxx
A, B, and C are items, x marks "unused" parts. The text file could
be something like:
000 (0,0) (2,2) 3 boomerang (aka item A)
001 (2,0) (3,1) - another item (aka item B)
002 (4,0) (4,2) 6,7 item foo (aka item C)
etc
First field is index number,
second gives top left coordinates,
third is width and height in tiles,
fourth lists "unused" tiles separated by commas,
counted from zero to (width*height)-1 (or just "-" if no unused ones),
and fifth is the item name
This is more work for you, but should make it easier for the coder
Hamish
Dec 16, 2011, 6:15:01 PM12/16/11
to
Thanks for the detailed explination Pasi,
That seems like a pretty solid system, I'll take it :¬)
It might take me an age to index it all properly, but if it saves
other people doing something similar over and over then its all for
the good.
I'm guessing I could keep adding additional fields like 'look'
descriptions and such like. I don't know how popular that would be
though. Perhaps I'll do that for the second release.
I really appreciate all the help I'm getting here, you guys are
champs!
Hamish
That seems like a pretty solid system, I'll take it :¬)
It might take me an age to index it all properly, but if it saves
other people doing something similar over and over then its all for
the good.
I'm guessing I could keep adding additional fields like 'look'
descriptions and such like. I don't know how popular that would be
though. Perhaps I'll do that for the second release.
I really appreciate all the help I'm getting here, you guys are
champs!
Hamish
Hamish
Dec 21, 2011, 6:40:08 PM12/21/11
to
Version 0.1 of my tileset is now ready to download - just head over to
http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/ and click the download tab.
It's only the basics at the moment, some level graphics and monsters.
Item graphics will come a little later but there should be enough
stuff for people to get started with.
I am desperate to see these make it into someones project, so as a
little incentive to get people involved I am offering a small prize
for the first person who posts a working level generator that uses my
tiles.
Details can be found over at the roguetemple forums -
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=1980.15
Wishing you all an awesome Christmas
Hamish
http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/ and click the download tab.
It's only the basics at the moment, some level graphics and monsters.
Item graphics will come a little later but there should be enough
stuff for people to get started with.
I am desperate to see these make it into someones project, so as a
little incentive to get people involved I am offering a small prize
for the first person who posts a working level generator that uses my
tiles.
Details can be found over at the roguetemple forums -
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=1980.15
Wishing you all an awesome Christmas
Hamish
Hamish
Feb 9, 2012, 5:21:19 AM2/9/12
to
Hullo chaps,
Just a quick one to let you know that v0.2 of the eight²empire tileset
is available for download. you can grab it here - http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/
Quite a modest update, but worth a look.
Best wishes
Hamish,
Just a quick one to let you know that v0.2 of the eight²empire tileset
is available for download. you can grab it here - http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/
Quite a modest update, but worth a look.
Best wishes
Hamish,
Pender
Feb 15, 2012, 1:07:29 PM2/15/12
to
On Feb 9, 2:21 am, Hamish <thomas.whetn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hullo chaps,
>
> Just a quick one to let you know that v0.2 of the eight²empire tileset
> is available for download. you can grab it here -http://eight2empire.blogspot.com/
> Hullo chaps,
>
> Just a quick one to let you know that v0.2 of the eight²empire tileset
>
> Quite a modest update, but worth a look.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Hamish,
Hi Hamish,
> Quite a modest update, but worth a look.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Hamish,
I just wanted to pipe up and let you know that I think your tiles are
gorgeous. I love the high contrast look, the bright flames and
gleaming swords among the otherwise dark and moody color choices. I
was skeptical about the 8x8 resolution at first, but I've totally come
around -- the tiles describe just enough shape without crowding out
the imagination, and the small size allow as much content on the
screen as an ASCII display (which is one of my biggest complaints
about tiled roguelikes). The foreground images sit nicely on the
background images without losing focus, and the walls and other
architectural features fit together to describe complex terrain
seamlessly. The whole thing is really nicely done. Thanks so much for
sharing it.
Hamish
Feb 16, 2012, 9:05:34 AM2/16/12
to
Hi Pender,
Thanks very much, high praise indeed.
Using graphics in a roguelike will always come with tradeoffs. Adding
additional visual rules that must be followed makes even basic
features like fences and transitions in floor material difficult. The
level of clarity and elegance you have achieved in brogue is a
testament to the flexibility and grace of using ascii.
That said people are suckers for little pictures, and while I can’t
hope to represent the vast range of player action and environmental
complexity found in the best roguelikes, hopefully my tiles will have
enough charm to see use in some projects.
When I eventually consider the tileset finished, I have thought it
might be fun to work on a system that uses typography in a fuller
sense, utilising all the features available in the best open type
fonts. The range of exotic glyphs and ligatures (not to mention
astronomical symbols) could display endless monster variants in
archaic finery, using italics and different character weights to
express stronger or faster opponents. Sub and super script could
indicate items in stacks… lots of possibilities. A nice serif font
would work beautifully I think.
…one thing at a time though :¬)
Thanks very much, high praise indeed.
Using graphics in a roguelike will always come with tradeoffs. Adding
additional visual rules that must be followed makes even basic
features like fences and transitions in floor material difficult. The
level of clarity and elegance you have achieved in brogue is a
testament to the flexibility and grace of using ascii.
That said people are suckers for little pictures, and while I can’t
hope to represent the vast range of player action and environmental
complexity found in the best roguelikes, hopefully my tiles will have
enough charm to see use in some projects.
When I eventually consider the tileset finished, I have thought it
might be fun to work on a system that uses typography in a fuller
sense, utilising all the features available in the best open type
fonts. The range of exotic glyphs and ligatures (not to mention
astronomical symbols) could display endless monster variants in
archaic finery, using italics and different character weights to
express stronger or faster opponents. Sub and super script could
indicate items in stacks… lots of possibilities. A nice serif font
would work beautifully I think.
…one thing at a time though :¬)
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