[Un] Beta 3 released
Andrew Doull
Unangband 0.6.0 beta 3 featuring mouse support has been released.
You can download the Windows executeable from
http://prdownload.berlios.de/unangband/unangband-060-beta3-win.zip
You can download the source from
http://prdownload.berlios.de/unangband/unangband-060-beta3-src.zip. For anyone
compiling the X11 version, in order to get mouse support working, you will need
to download Christophe Cavalaria's mouse support patch and use the main-x11.c
from that. This will undoubtably require some hacking, but hopefully not too
much.
Please report bugs to http://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?group_id=331.
The following changes have been made since beta2:
- Monster experience is now computed via a power algorithm.
- Added Christophe Cavalaria's mouse support patch.
- Automatically generate a random name at player birth. This can be
overwritten.
- Allow any key press to load the last save file used at the start screen on
Windows.
- Added mouse support to the majority of the game.
- It is now possible to specify '!' while targetting to automatically target the
location
under the mouse pointer. This is intended for macros.
- Cut down slightly the number of key presses required to buy anything in a
store.
- Magic objects should now have the ability they are named after automatically
known (Reported by ekolis).
- You should now be able to buy a service when your inventory is full
(Reported by David Justiss).
- Stupid monsters shouldn't report when they are out of ammunition (Reported
by David Justiss).
- Fixed pickup bug where items could prevented from being picked up by objects
stored in the grid.
- Spell casters now buff themselves, not the player.
- Fixed bug where objects were destroyed incorrectly when a grid was changed.
- Killing a surface dungeon guardian should not create a set of stairs any
more. (Reported by Hilke Reiter).
- Farmer Maggot should no longer sing. Tom Bombadil will no longer crash the
game (Reported by darkDrone).
- Staffs should not stack incorrectly (Reported by will_asher).
- Non-weapon blessed or vampiric items should no longer be generated (Reported
by ekolis).
- Monsters releasing spores or wailing should do so with correct messages
(Reported by ekolis).
Regards,
Andrew
--
Unangband L:C E+ T- R- P+ D-- G+(+) F:Sangband RL-- RLA-- W:F Q++
AI+(++) GFX++ SFX++ RN+++(+) PO++ Hp+++ Re--(+) S++ C- O* KG--
topazg
This may be fixed already, but the first thing I do each time I load my char is
to set the unknown squares from grey 'x's to blank squares (old habits die
hard!). However, no matter how many times I saved to either {playername}.prf,
default.prf or user.prf, I still had to change them again each time I load the
character.
Is there any way to get this changed?
--
Take Care,
Graham
Pos(0.3.0a2) Alpha "Natar" XX L:1 DL:50' !A R--- !Sp w:Short Sword +0,+0
Pos(V/T//NPP) W H- D+ c-- f PV+ s- TT? d P++ M+
C-- S+ I- So B ac GHB- SQ+ RQ+ V+ F:Better monster AI (Acting like decent
players without automatically knowing where the player is - randomly roaming
the dungeon etc...)
Andrew Doull
> On 2006-04-02 20:02:47, Andrew Doull wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Unangband 0.6.0 beta 3 featuring mouse support has been released.
> This may be fixed already, but the first thing I do each time I load my char is
> to set the unknown squares from grey 'x's to blank squares (old habits die
> hard!). However, no matter how many times I saved to either {playername}.prf,
> default.prf or user.prf, I still had to change them again each time I load the
> character.
Hmm. You need to modify the invisible trap graphic manually by editting one of
the above files. Saving it obviously doesn't work... I'll have to put a slight
hack in to permit saving.
Try putting in something like:
# invisible trap
F:2:32/0:NO
(I haven't tested this though...)
Sure I can't persuade you of the increased utility of having a visual indication
of where you haven't cast detect traps?
Andrew Sidwell
> For anyone compiling the X11 version, in order to get mouse support
> working, you will need to download Christophe Cavalaria's mouse
> support patch and use the main-x11.c from that. This will undoubtably
> require some hacking, but hopefully not too much.
Where is this patch located? I don't recall seeing any announcement or
mention of it before you did.
Andrew Sidwell
topazg
> On 2006-04-02 20:11:44, topazg wrote:
>
> > On 2006-04-02 20:02:47, Andrew Doull wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Unangband 0.6.0 beta 3 featuring mouse support has been released.
> > This may be fixed already, but the first thing I do each time I load my char is
> > to set the unknown squares from grey 'x's to blank squares (old habits die
> > hard!). However, no matter how many times I saved to either {playername}.prf,
> > default.prf or user.prf, I still had to change them again each time I load the
> > character.
>
> Hmm. You need to modify the invisible trap graphic manually by editting one of
> the above files. Saving it obviously doesn't work... I'll have to put a slight
> hack in to permit saving.
>
> Try putting in something like:
>
> # invisible trap
> F:2:32/0:NO
>
> (I haven't tested this though...)
>
> Sure I can't persuade you of the increased utility of having a visual indication
> of where you haven't cast detect traps?
>
> Andrew
Probably at some point - like when I get enough characters far enough to get a
regular usage of trap detection :-)
Unangband has to be one of the hardest variants I've tried to get characters
started on (though that may be because I didn't realise there was a dungeon
level offset and kept going too deep in Trollshaw forest).
Andrew Doull
Andrew Doull
> On 2006-04-02 21:45:20, Andrew Doull wrote:
>
> Unangband has to be one of the hardest variants I've tried to get characters
> started on (though that may be because I didn't realise there was a dungeon
> level offset and kept going too deep in Trollshaw forest).
Really... I find it easier than Angband because there's plenty to do, so I don't
lose attention. Mind you, I tend to play warriors, and they always have an easy
start.
Probably the best advice is make sure you clear Farmer Maggot's farm. The
treasure selection isn't great, but you're only fighting animals except for the
dungeon guardian, so it tends to be a bit easier... also breeding frogs are now
deeper and distinguished from non-breeding frogs, and summoners now have mana.
The reason I mention this is I always got overwhelmed by breeding frogs
summoned from out of sight by a shaman...
> Pos(0.3.0a2) Alpha "Natar" XX L:1 DL:50' !A R--- !Sp w:Short Sword +0,+0
> Pos(V/T//NPP) W H- D+ c-- f PV+ s- TT? d P++ M+
> C-- S+ I- So B ac GHB- SQ+ RQ+ V+ F:Better monster AI (Acting like decent
> players without automatically knowing where the player is - randomly roaming
> the dungeon etc...)
As for the feature request in your sig, I'm working on it.
My thinking so far for monster actions, to be done similar to the townsfolk AI
from Sangband.
1. Moving between rooms.
2. If in a room, tidy a room, by moving objects to adjacent to the outer
walls.
3. Talk about the player (already implemented).
4. Twitch searching for the player if the player is invisible.
5. Twitch searching for player traps.
6. Eating monster corpses for food.
7. Burying their friends corpses.
8. Closing opened doors.
9. Maybe setting more traps.
10. Altering terrain in useful ways.
Basically stuff that won't interfere with the player's activities.
Regards,
Timo Pietilä
> My thinking so far for monster actions, to be done similar to the townsfolk AI
> from Sangband.
>
> 1. Moving between rooms.
...
> 10. Altering terrain in useful ways.
>
> Basically stuff that won't interfere with the player's activities.
This sounds....interesting. And very very promising, if you can do that.
This goes to #1 in vanilla wishlist, if you can make it work.
Timo Pietilä
Andrew Doull
<timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:
The problem is that you need to be able to take advantage of it by having e.g.
player invisibility. Otherwise the monsters will be doing interesting stuff out
of site and as soon as the player walks in view, they'll stop and attack...
This also means things like width 2 corridors, with niches that the player can
hide in, monsters having cones of vision as opposed to 360 degree vision, e.g.
MGS in an Angband setting. I've got some ideas how to do this, but I don't know
how much this will fit with the current Angband feel.
Timo Pietilä
> On 2006-04-03 15:18:48, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietilä?=
> <timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>> Andrew Doull wrote:
>>
>>> My thinking so far for monster actions, to be done similar to the townsfolk AI
>>> from Sangband.
>>>
>>> 1. Moving between rooms.
>> . ..
>>> 10. Altering terrain in useful ways.
>>>
>>> Basically stuff that won't interfere with the player's activities.
>> This sounds....interesting. And very very promising, if you can do that.
>> This goes to #1 in vanilla wishlist, if you can make it work.
>
> The problem is that you need to be able to take advantage of it by having e.g.
> player invisibility. Otherwise the monsters will be doing interesting stuff out
> of site and as soon as the player walks in view, they'll stop and attack...
You have ESP for that. You can see what they do without them knowing it.
> This also means things like width 2 corridors, with niches that the player can
> hide in, monsters having cones of vision as opposed to 360 degree vision
Player has 360 degree vision. It is unfair to make monsters not have
that. Invisibility is a good thing. Maybe make it like in LoTR, undead
ghost-like creatures see you *better* with invisibility and orcs and
other like that don't see you at all unless you make something that
reveals you (like use lantern). And other way around.
>, e.g.
> MGS in an Angband setting. I've got some ideas how to do this, but I don't know
> how much this will fit with the current Angband feel.
Sounds entirely different game if you make them NPC:s instead of
monsters. Simplicity is good as long as it isn't too simple. Just making
awake monsters doing *something* while not knowing where player is is
a big improvement.
Timo Pietilä
topazg
> On 2006-04-03 00:20:59, topazg wrote:
>
> > On 2006-04-02 21:45:20, Andrew Doull wrote:
> >
> > Unangband has to be one of the hardest variants I've tried to get characters
> > started on (though that may be because I didn't realise there was a dungeon
> > level offset and kept going too deep in Trollshaw forest).
>
> Really... I find it easier than Angband because there's plenty to do, so I don't
> lose attention. Mind you, I tend to play warriors, and they always have an easy
> start.
>
> Probably the best advice is make sure you clear Farmer Maggot's farm. The
> treasure selection isn't great, but you're only fighting animals except for the
> dungeon guardian, so it tends to be a bit easier... also breeding frogs are now
> deeper and distinguished from non-breeding frogs, and summoners now have mana.
I must confess that I have been totally skipping the farm and haven't been
playing warriors ... having great fun though - It is certainly the variant
that, at the moment at least, has the most authentic roleplaying feel to it.
> The reason I mention this is I always got overwhelmed by breeding frogs
> summoned from out of sight by a shaman...
Yeah, summoners generally (even giant white mice to begin with) can be really
tricky.
>
> > Pos(0.3.0a2) Alpha "Natar" XX L:1 DL:50' !A R--- !Sp w:Short Sword +0,+0
> > Pos(V/T//NPP) W H- D+ c-- f PV+ s- TT? d P++ M+
> > C-- S+ I- So B ac GHB- SQ+ RQ+ V+ F:Better monster AI (Acting like decent
> > players without automatically knowing where the player is - randomly roaming
> > the dungeon etc...)
>
> As for the feature request in your sig, I'm working on it.
>
> My thinking so far for monster actions, to be done similar to the townsfolk AI
> from Sangband.
>
> 1. Moving between rooms.
> 2. If in a room, tidy a room, by moving objects to adjacent to the outer
> walls.
> 3. Talk about the player (already implemented).
> 4. Twitch searching for the player if the player is invisible.
> 5. Twitch searching for player traps.
> 6. Eating monster corpses for food.
> 7. Burying their friends corpses.
> 8. Closing opened doors.
> 9. Maybe setting more traps.
> 10. Altering terrain in useful ways.
>
> Basically stuff that won't interfere with the player's activities.
Yeah, this would be great - as Timo said, if implemented this could be
fantastic.
I remember Dr. Andrew White saying he tried to make the monsters more
intelligent (including combat intelligence) and made a lot of them
undefeatable. That's the problem of course with having a borg programmer doing
monster AI :-)
On a serious note though, I do hate being able to do silly tactics (LOS abuse,
pillardancing etc...) on monsters, and avoid doing them on principle. It would
be nice for the game to try and make these tactics not feasible by making the
monsters themselves not allow it.
--
Take Care,
Graham
Andrew Doull
> I remember Dr. Andrew White saying he tried to make the monsters more
> intelligent (including combat intelligence) and made a lot of them
> undefeatable. That's the problem of course with having a borg programmer doing
> monster AI :-)
The 4GAI is a good half-way house for this. It makes monster tactics
'interesting' as opposed to 'undefeatable'.
> On a serious note though, I do hate being able to do silly tactics (LOS abuse,
> pillardancing etc...) on monsters, and avoid doing them on principle. It would
> be nice for the game to try and make these tactics not feasible by making the
> monsters themselves not allow it.
NPPAngband has a large number of fixes for these types of abusive tactics. I
will be porting these across to Unangband for the next version release.
Joshua Rodman
> On 2006-04-03 15:18:48, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Timo_Pietilä?=
><timo.p...@helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>> Andrew Doull wrote:
>> > My thinking so far for monster actions, to be done similar to the townsfolk AI
>> > from Sangband.
>> >
>> > 1. Moving between rooms.
>> . ..
>> > 10. Altering terrain in useful ways.
>> >
>> > Basically stuff that won't interfere with the player's activities.
>>
>> This sounds....interesting. And very very promising, if you can do that.
>> This goes to #1 in vanilla wishlist, if you can make it work.
>
> The problem is that you need to be able to take advantage of it by
> having e.g. player invisibility. Otherwise the monsters will be doing
> interesting stuff out of site and as soon as the player walks in view,
> they'll stop and attack...
>
> This also means things like width 2 corridors, with niches that the
> player can hide in, monsters having cones of vision as opposed to 360
> degree vision, e.g. MGS in an Angband setting. I've got some ideas
> how to do this, but I don't know how much this will fit with the
> current Angband feel.
I hope I do not sound too much like a broken record here, but I think
you should check out Crawl at some point, though I would advise making a
concious decision as to how much you want to flesh out your own ideas
before getting some input.
Crawl has monsters who move and behave on their own, and who can be
sneaked up on but sometimes notice the player. I'm pretty sure the code
is a lot less sophisticated than what you are proposing, but works well.
When the monsters choose to make noise is contrived but makes for good
tactical decisions.
I'd also love to see the monster movement replace to some extent the
need for monster spawning. The uncertainty of what is in a given part
of the dungeon coming from monster movement is much more satisfying to
me than random spawning.
--
Grim. Grom. Grümmer.
Martin Bazley
of Joshua Rodman tapped out the following:
[snip]
>
> I'd also love to see the monster movement replace to some extent the
> need for monster spawning. The uncertainty of what is in a given part
> of the dungeon coming from monster movement is much more satisfying to
> me than random spawning.
Hmmm. Maybe monsters could use stairs?
Obviously they wouldn't be able to follow the player between levels,
since the staircases are meant to interconnect a million different
levels and you get a different one each time, but it could be an
interesting (and more realistic) replacement for spawning.
Oh yes, and it could occur within your LOS. Something like "The Large
kobold comes up/down the stairs.", maybe. ("comes up" for mosters
appearing from down staircases, and "comes down" for up ones.
Imagine the situation: You're running away from Wormy or someone on
critical HP, you've nearly reached the stairs, and then <insert
dangerous monster here> appears from them, and instakills you.
Hang on. How would immobile monsters like jellies use stairs? What's a
solution for that one?
<wanders off blabbering to himself>
--
- Martin Bazley - "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be"
Posting from an X100 Iyonix running RISC OS 5.11 - RISC OS Rules OK!
First Law of University: It kills by degrees.
Otto Martin
>On 2006-04-03 20:27:17, topazg <gra...@blessyou.co.uk> wrote:
>>I remember Dr. Andrew White saying he tried to make the monsters more
>>intelligent (including combat intelligence) and made a lot of them
>>undefeatable. That's the problem of course with having a borg
>>programmer doing monster AI :-)
>The 4GAI is a good half-way house for this. It makes monster tactics
>'interesting' as opposed to 'undefeatable'.
To me, this just means that monster abilities have to be toned down.
If you give them low enough stats (and downgrade spell & breath
effects), you'd think there should be some point of balance. Of course,
this assumes monster mana and that a certain "stupid braveness factor"
has to be included, so you can actually kill faster moving or
teleporting monsters instead of them just always running away.
Otto Martin
--
"They had an instrument they invented which they called the vibro-tuba.
How could I resist?..."
http://www.brunostrip.com/june2998.html
Twisted
> a certain "stupid braveness factor"
> has to be included, so you can actually kill faster moving or
> teleporting monsters instead of them just always running away.
Not an unrealistic behavior, IMO; in fact it closely mimics a failing
of many Angband players, including some veterans. ;)
--
I am the terror that flaps in the net!
I am the little plastic thingamabob in the toilet tank of justice!
I am TWISTED!
darkDrone
i think someoen else reported Tom Bombadil ... i never got to him yet
... (me still running around trying not to get killed in Farmer
Maggot's garden) :D
darkDrone
how do u prevent the LOS abuse and pillardance?
i mean im a new plaeyr so i tend to take on summoners by digging in the
walls and then hammering away at each new horror that creeps out on me
...
(im playing Antoine's Quickband too now) - it doesnt always work
though.
one thing i dont get in the older versions... if theres a group of
monsters and there's a way around to BEHIND the player....they never
take it ....
maybe the 'awareness' thing is lacking in the older engines?
all said .... i'd really be frustrated if the AI got TOO smart :D cos
im really a *run up a 1 width corridor around a bend and hammer at the
vibration hounds with a Westernesse Lochaber Axe* kind of player at the
moment :D
hope MY AI is improving :D
Andrew Doull
> wow hey , thanks, that repeated singing was a bit ... off.
>
> i think someoen else reported Tom Bombadil ... i never got to him yet
> . .. (me still running around trying not to get killed in Farmer
> Maggot's garden) :D
As it turns out, because I had switched SHOTs and SING attacks, the crashes were
caused by any monsters that threw pebbles or iron shots at the player.
Somone had reported on the group that a Y monster (ape) had crashed the game;
this was the cause.
Andrew Doull
> its a balance really ...
>
> how do u prevent the LOS abuse and pillardance?
Some examples might be having the monster back away, having the monster randomly
vary speeds, having the monster notice when the player is attacking it and also
do LOS abuse back.
NPPAngband does the second and third trick already...
> i mean im a new plaeyr so i tend to take on summoners by digging in the
> walls and then hammering away at each new horror that creeps out on me
> . ..
>
> (im playing Antoine's Quickband too now) - it doesnt always work
> though.
>
> one thing i dont get in the older versions... if theres a group of
> monsters and there's a way around to BEHIND the player....they never
> take it ....
Its actually a problem even with 4GAI and NPPAngband... I've mentioned it
in a post on the NPPAngband forms (link
http://www.tannert.net/nppangband/viewtopic.php?id=158).
There really is no good solution though - you'll always have to approximate some
how.
darkDrone
Ranger.
this is the mesage on lev 2 of Farmer Maggots farm
>Yellow Mushroom Releases Spores
>Cancelled.
didnt get it. the area spore effect DID get displayed though....
character didnt take damage either.
Jeff Greene
"Andrew Doull" <andre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e18iiv$2236$1...@news.vol.cz...
> On 2006-04-08 16:11:34, "darkDrone" <famil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> its a balance really ...
>>
>> how do u prevent the LOS abuse and pillardance?
>
> Some examples might be having the monster back away, having the monster
> randomly
> vary speeds, having the monster notice when the player is attacking it and
> also
> do LOS abuse back.
>
> NPPAngband does the second and third trick already...
>
>> i mean im a new plaeyr so i tend to take on summoners by digging in the
>> walls and then hammering away at each new horror that creeps out on me
>> . ..
>>
>> (im playing Antoine's Quickband too now) - it doesnt always work
>> though.
>>
>> one thing i dont get in the older versions... if theres a group of
>> monsters and there's a way around to BEHIND the player....they never
>> take it ....
>
> Its actually a problem even with 4GAI and NPPAngband... I've mentioned it
> in a post on the NPPAngband forms (link
> http://www.tannert.net/nppangband/viewtopic.php?id=158).
>
> There really is no good solution though - you'll always have to
> approximate some
> how.
>
There is an extremely good and clean solution, but it would just eat up alot
of processor speed. We would just have to update a special flow that gives
an "alternate route" every time a monster moves. Maybe in another 3-4 years
when processor speeds have increased another 3-4 times.
-Jeff
bobbie sellers
> its a balance really ...
>
> how do u prevent the LOS abuse and pillardance?
>
> i mean im a new plaeyr so i tend to take on summoners by digging in the
> walls and then hammering away at each new horror that creeps out on me
> ...
>
> (im playing Antoine's Quickband too now) - it doesnt always work
> though.
>
> one thing i dont get in the older versions... if theres a group of
> monsters and there's a way around to BEHIND the player....they never
> take it ....
In CathAngband the orcs at least are smart enough to try this.
But you have to assume that few monsters know the layout of the
dungeon and thus are not aware of the possibilities. Directed
as most may be assumed to be by the will of Morgoth they merely
want to attack and destroy most directly any intruders.
This is doubtless due to countless generation of surface
dwellers behaving badly on their trips to the dungeon.
>
> maybe the 'awareness' thing is lacking in the older engines?
>
> all said .... i'd really be frustrated if the AI got TOO smart :D cos
> im really a *run up a 1 width corridor around a bend and hammer at the
> vibration hounds with a Westernesse Lochaber Axe* kind of player at the
> moment :D
>
> hope MY AI is improving :D
I play Paladins because I like magic and mayhem but don't
do especially well despite lots of practice.
Recent remarks about avoiding a lot of combat have led me
to modify my dungeon activities but it has not borne fruit yet.
The difficulty seems to be that I am not avoiding combat with
enough. I will try to be more peaceable in my dealings with
the denizens of the dungeon and hope it will lead to better
results in the future.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA*
The proper day for chocolate is any day you are still
alive to eat it.
Timo Pietilä
> There is an extremely good and clean solution, but it would just eat up alot
> of processor speed. We would just have to update a special flow that gives
> an "alternate route" every time a monster moves. Maybe in another 3-4 years
> when processor speeds have increased another 3-4 times.
That's two years max to get computers with 4 times computing power.
Maybe even less. Problem is that people do play with old computers and
even with palm-computers. They don't upgrade unless old one gets
obsolete or breaks down, so it will take around 5 to 8 years in real
life to get rid of all obsolete computers.
BTW. Computer world is rapidly changing to 64bit architecture. AMD64 is
already old news and 64bit XP has been there for some time now. In
Linux-wold there has been 64bit systems many years now. I don't know
what this means to angband code. Is there need for change?
Timo Pietilä
Eddie Grove
> BTW. Computer world is rapidly changing to 64bit architecture. AMD64
> is already old news and 64bit XP has been there for some time now. In
> Linux-wold there has been 64bit systems many years now. I don't know
> what this means to angband code. Is there need for change?
There's nothing in Angband that would particularly benefit from 64
bits. The main improvement would be from the extra registers, and
you get that simply by recompiling.
The trick would be to write Jeff's AI as multi-threaded code that can
take full advantage of multiple cores. Quad-core processors are
already being produced [in small quantities], and they should be
available to the public by 2008, I would guess.
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/71532
Eddie
Twisted
guess is "no".
--
I am the terror that flaps in the net!
I am the flaky RAM chip on your motherboard!
I am TWISTED!