Quickband new version - reply
Antoine
For some reason Google Groups isn't letting me reply to messages in
this thread so this post continues the discussion. And should be taken
as a message to Andrew, Pete, Phil and anyone else potentially
interested,
This is my current list of changes to make to Quickband. Most of these
in fact come from Andrew, Pete & Phil. Anything I've forgotten, pls
feel free to remind me. Open to suggestions for other changes
consistent with the game theme.
- Fix fatal bug around notes file writing (discussed here in August)
- Small levels as default
- Do something about the 'fractional experience gain feature' (someone
suggested correcting the monster memory so that fractions were rounded
down there too).
- Check recent NPP changelog and port over anything essential
- Revise class and race balance. As has been commented here, ranger,
mage and priest all need to be improved. My preference would be to do
this by improving archery and pseudo-id for the former, and spell
power, cost and success rates for the latter two. Half-orc is probably
too strong.
- Magic devices may be a little too good. In particular I think Drain
Life should be nerfed a little.
- Saruman should do something more sensible when he runs out of mana.
As Pete M commented , "monsters with exhausted mana and no 0-mana
attacks (breath, missiles, spit) should not sit and wait for you to
kill them. They should either fight or flee. This makes killing
Saruman much easier than it should be."
- Rogue and bandit should start with sling and shot. In fact I wouldn't
mind seeing all classes start with slightly better kit (light source
etc). It would be nice if going into the dungeon without going to a
shop first was a vaguely reasonable thing to do.
- I should like to see randomly generated characters being better
(whereas now you're a pillock if you don't use either autoroller or
points).
- Saruman should be worth less XP and you should not get a huge gold
bonus for killing him.
- Guaranteed access to certain items in the stores (Pete M said "It
would be nice if there were a !CCW store service (at ~500GP/flask)")
- In-game help has not been updated for Quickband - it is simply the
unmodified NPP help package. Clearly this needs doing.
- Generally there are some lingering references to NPP throughout the
package which should be changed (obviously not the acknowledgments, but
just in that the name of the game is no longer NPP). For instance it
would be nice to update compile.txt properly, And angdesc.txt. And
probably other stuff I've missed.
- I wouldn't mind having a new desktop icon, either.
- ?? Add a 'Bard' class - something like EYAngband?
- ?? Add a few new artifacts?
- ?? Give Saruman a specific drop (the Palantir?)
- ?? Add some weakened versions of NPP mid-game uniques? (Currently the
orc uniques are somewhat over-represented)
So - anyone keen to help out with these sort of items, pls let me know
(here).
TIA
A.
Phil Carmody
> - Revise class and race balance. As has been commented here, ranger,
> mage and priest all need to be improved. My preference would be to do
> this by improving archery and pseudo-id for the former, and spell
> power, cost and success rates for the latter two. Half-orc is probably
> too strong.
I hacked the source to make ranger not have an experience handicap
(took it from 30% to 0%) after seeing this comment. Upon reaching
level 20 expecting to get an extra shot, I was sorely disappointed.
I've finally got one, but have found no bows/arrors that even make
2 shots superior to even one magic missile. Maybe the enchanted item
generation RNG has just been a bastard to me (I've seen 100 ego swords,
and only 3 bows, all of which were unenchanted.)
So even my experience cheat left the ranger not worth playing.
Extra shots at levels 15, 30, 45 would probably reorient the bias.
However, I've not played Q with any other class, so I don't really
know what I'm talking about!
Phil
--
"Home taping is killing big business profits. We left this side blank
so you can help." -- Dead Kennedys, written upon the B-side of tapes of
/In God We Trust, Inc./.
Andrew Sidwell
<snip>
> - Fix fatal bug around notes file writing (discussed here in August)
Google is refusing to show me any old posts, but I get the just from the
brief summaries it gives me when searching.
Having temporary files open all game long feels like a hack to me.
Thus, I propose a switch to holding the notes in memory for the duration
of the game. This removes a lot of file manipulation and potential
problems at the expense of adding a small amount of buffer manipulation
stuff.
Assuming each line has 75 characters, 500 lines would be ~36kB of extra
memory used, which is negligible.
Patch:
http://entai.co.uk/projects/angband/quick-notes.v1.diff
(total lines 1006; added 344, removed 351)
This should be adaptable to any variant using Chris Kern's original
notes patch, and IMHO it's quite a bit cleaner.
Andrew Sidwell
pete m
> Hi,
>
> For some reason Google Groups isn't letting me reply to messages in
> this thread so this post continues the discussion. And should be taken
> as a message to Andrew, Pete, Phil and anyone else potentially
> interested,
>
> This is my current list of changes to make to Quickband. Most of these
> in fact come from Andrew, Pete & Phil. Anything I've forgotten, pls
> feel free to remind me. Open to suggestions for other changes
> consistent with the game theme.
I sent you a proposed todo list to your guildgame email address a few
days ago, when GG was down. I've just started work on that list if you
are interested.
Antoine
Eek! my guildgame address may have chewed that up. I will look for it.
If you have a copy can you post it here?
A.
pete m
Antoine wrote:
> pete m wrote:
> > I sent you a proposed todo list to your guildgame email address a few
> > days ago, when GG was down. I've just started work on that list if you
> > are interested.
>
> Eek! my guildgame address may have chewed that up. I will look for it.
> If you have a copy can you post it here?
>
Here's my current todo list. It was partially inspired by a Gnome Mage
character that ran into a wall after killing Lurtz. Just not enough HP
or firepower to kill Saruman.
todo.txt
x = completed
--------
Edit file changes &c:
x - Small levels by default.
x - Rogue + Brigand - Sling and pebbles
x - Human + Dunadan - Lantern (Can't see red monsters otherwise)
x - Mage - 1 more HP; remove CON penalty. Lack of HP means endgame
mage
is relatively weaker than other classes compared to other variants.
(CL 30 gnome mage with 18 CON has 176 HP; this is a 2 in 7 chance
of dying to Saruman's Darkness Storm, even with RDark.
x - Significantly increase chances of ego lanterns.
Raise cost of LoBrightness in the general store & black market.
(1000GP is laughably low in this game.)
x - Possibly add CON to AoDevotion, or add a new amulet with CON.
(The classes that truly need RDark are usually desperately short of
HP.)
x - Increase EXP penalty for Half-Orc
x - Make depth of AoMagi the same as the other big ones. (It never
shows up.)
x - Improve Ranger pseudo, reduce level and fail rate of ID spell
for Ranger and Paladin.
x - Reduce level of Mass ID spell (all classes.)
x - Improve object detection for Ranger and Mage. Rogue is just too
far out
in front.
- Reduce fail rate and/or mana cost of Raal spells and
Fireball/Frostball.
Mage is no fun without some benefit from higher offensive spells;
currently OoD against Quest monsters is far better than any
comparable
Mage spell.
Comparisons at cl 31, magic stat 18/60, spells effective against
Saruman
Spell Mana Fail rate Nom Damage Av Damage Efficency
(dam/mana)
Magic Missile 1 4% 22.5 22 21.6
OoD 7 4% (53)107 (51)103 (7.3)14.7
Acid Bolt 9 4% 63 60 6.7
And if you are "lucky" enough to find Raal:
Acid Ball 15 16% 71 64 4.0
Meteor Swarm 25 39% 135 82 3.3
So Quickband endgame is optimally located in the range where Mage still
sucks,
while Priest has reached the sweet spot.
Other player fixes:
Don't make shopkeepers quite so stingy for bad CHR?
Currently it's just too different between Half-Orc Rogue and High-Elf
Mage,
sort of the inverse of relative HP problem.
The current 'to do.txt' list includes class bonus for Rogue with light
melee
weapon, but the class is pretty strong already. I agree new spells
might be
fun, though I don't know which spells you have in mind.
Spell changes:
- Priest - beef up Bolt of Draining spell, so he has a chance at
distance
attacks in the early game. (Slings just are not enough, unless you
get
lucky.)
- Priest - tone down healing spell, but reduce mana slightly.
315 HP is too many. (100-150 is about right)
- Paladin - reduce level and cost of Healing spell. Currently there's
no
reason at all to play this lousy class, since it generally doesn't
come
into its strengths by the time the game is over.
- Slightly nerf magic devices, though I'm not sure about this.
I like that offensive Magic Devices are actually useful in the
endgame.
And you never get enough Drain/Lightning Ball/Acid Ball devices to
actually
kill Saruman, just weaken him significantly, though occasionally you
can
kill Lurtz with devices.
Monster fixes:
Rebalance Saruman & Lurtz EXP.
Make some elemental 'D's &c native to dl 36 (550'). Currently 550'
is
a boring place to level up if you are too weak to fight Saruman.
Add some more interesting non-orc uniques. (Evil Iggy comes to
mind...)
Dungeon:
- Increase frequency of GV at dl 27+ (900' and below)
- Increase digging bonus of various shovels, or otherwise make vaults
easier to enter for non-mage-casters.
- Add a few store services for really vital stuff like CCW and ?Phase
Door.
You can't fight the bosses without these, and sometimes they aren't
sufficiently stocked by the time you are otherwise ready.
Bug fixes.
- Better AI for monsters with exhausted mana.
- Note-file fix(?) I've never seen this bug.
- Fix Wizard mode start option so you can't use it to save-scum.
- Migrate from NPP. I don't know to what level--do you want to merge
the
Quickband mods into the WIP6 release candidate instead?
That would be cool.
Remove NPP references.
Rebalance random characters vs cost/autoroll.
(Maybe use UnAngband/Steam style stat gain?)
I don't know the Bard class, so I can't help there.
pete m
Antoine wrote:
> pete m wrote:
> > days ago, when GG was down. I've just started work on that list if you
> > are interested.
>
> Eek! my guildgame address may have chewed that up. I will look for it.
> If you have a copy can you post it here?
And here's the character from hell that inspired some of my complaints.
It's finally nearly strong enough, but doesn't have any way to do real
damage to S. (And giving up Weaponmastery in favor of Devotion means
being slowed with such a heavy weapon.)
It's infinitely weaker than a similar Priest character, who can just
blast away with OoD.
[Quickband 1.0.5 Character Dump]
Name Ruth Ginsburg Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Female Age 80 STR: 16 -1 -5 +5 15
Race Gnome Height 39 INT: 16 +2 +3 +0 18/30
Class Mage Weight 77 Wis: 10 +0 +0 +3 13 7
Title Conjurer Status 58 DEX: 10 +2 +1 +0 13
HP 183/183 CON: 16 +1 -2 +3 18
SP 92/120 Level 31 CHR: 10 -2 +1 +0 9
GameTurn 272463 Armor [17,+47] Saving Throw Superb
Cur Exp 82742 Fight (+0,+3) Stealth Superb
Max Exp 82742 Melee (+8,+13) Fighting Excellent
Adv Exp 41008 Shoot (+9,+8) Shooting Excellent
MaxDepth 550 ft Blows 1/turn Disarming Excellent
Gold 855 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Heroic
Burden 99 lbs Speed +1 Perception Very Good
% Burden 58% Infra 70 ft Searching Fair
You are one of several children of a Gnome Warrior. You are a
well liked child. You have brown eyes, wavy blond hair, and an
average complexion.
[Character Equipment Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]
(+/-) + ++
/}=="~( )] ] /}=="~( )] ]
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Str: ...32........ Str: ...ss........
Int: ............. Int: .............
Wis: 3............ Wis: .............
Dex: ............. Dex: .............
Con: 3............ Con: ....s........
Chr: ............. Chr: .............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:......+.+.... Blind:......+..+...
Elec:..+...+...... Confu:.............
Fire:......+...... Sound:.............
Cold:......+...... Shard:.............
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:....+........ Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:....+........
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:+............ Stea.:......+......
Feath:............. Sear.:.........+...
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Aggr.:.............
Telep:+............ Speed:.............
Invis:.........+... Blows:.............
FrAct:....+.......+ Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
/}=="~( )] ] /}=="~( )] ]
[Character Equipment]
a) The Beaked Axe of Theoden (2d6) (+8,+10) (+3)
It increases your wisdom and constitution by 3. It slays
dragons. It slows your metabolism. It grants you the power
of telepathy. It activates for drain life (120) every 40
turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It gives you
one attack per turn.
b) a Long Bow (x3) (+9,+8)
c) a Jade Ring of Lightning [+16]
It provides resistance to lightning. It activates for
electricity resistance (20+d20 turns) and electricity ball (85)
every 50+d50 turns. It cannot be harmed by electricity.
d) an Emerald Ring of Strength (+3) {40% off}
It increases your strength by 3. It sustains your strength.
e) a Sea Shell Amulet of Weaponmastery (+1,+2) (+2)
It increases your strength by 2. It provides resistance to
fear and disenchantment. It sustains your strength and
constitution. It grants you immunity to paralysis.
f) The Phial of Galadriel {!!}
It lights the dungeon around you. It activates for
illumination every 10+d10 turns. It cannot be harmed by the
elements.
g) Hard Leather Armour of Elvenkind (-1) [6,+10] (+3 to stealth)
It increases your stealth by 3. It provides resistance to
acid, lightning, fire, cold, and blindness. It cannot be
harmed by the elements.
h) (nothing)
i) a Small Metal Shield of Resist Elements [3,+11]
It provides resistance to acid. It cannot be harmed by acid.
j) an Iron Helm of Seeing [5,+6] (+1 to searching)
It increases your searching by 1. It provides resistance to
blindness. It grants you the ability to see invisible things.
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+3]
[Character Inventory]
a) a Book of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners]
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks]
c) a Book of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
d) a Book of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations]
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Raal's Tome of Destruction]
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
f) a Vermilion Potion of Speed {!*}
g) 3 Violet Speckled Potions of Heroism
h) 14 Metallic Red Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
i) an Indigo Potion of Enlightenment
j) 6 Scrolls titled "urblaa aksso i" of Phase Door
k) 5 Scrolls titled "ab den creme" of Teleportation {!*}
l) 2 Scrolls titled "evsjo ankh" of Teleport Level {!*}
m) 5 Scrolls titled "sef compbyt" of Word of Recall {!*, 10% off}
n) 2 Zinc-Plated Rods of Perception {!!}
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
o) a Brass Wand of Fire Bolts (11 charges)
p) a Zinc Wand of Fire Balls (5 charges)
It cannot be harmed by fire.
q) The Well-balanced Main Gauche of Azaghal (2d5) (+12,+14)
It is especially deadly against dragons. It is branded with
fire. It provides immunity to fire. It provides resistance
to acid and fear. It can be thrown hard and fast. It cannot
be harmed by the elements. It gives you one attack per turn.
r) 16 Mithril Arrows of Wounding (3d4) (+11,+11)
It cannot be harmed by acid or fire.
s) 12 Mithril Arrows (3d4) (+0,+0)
It cannot be harmed by acid or fire.
[Home Inventory Stat Modifiers, Sustains and Flags]
(+/-) + +
!!!!!!!!????-----_===""" !!!!!!!!????-----_==="""
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Str: ........................ Str: ........................
Int: ........................ Int: ........................
Wis: .......................1 Wis: .......................s
Dex: ........................ Dex: ........................
Con: ........................ Con: ........................
Chr: .....................4.1 Chr: .....................s.s
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
Acid: ..................++..+. Blind: ........................
Elec: ......................+. Confu: ........................
Fire: ......................++ Sound: ........................
Cold: ......................+. Shard: ........................
Pois: ........................ Nexus: ........................
Fear: ........................ Nethr: ........................
Lite: .......................+ Chaos: ........................
Dark: .......................+ Disen: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
S.Dig: ........................ Stea.: ........................
Feath: ........................ Sear.: ........................
PLite: .......................+ Infra: ........................
Regen: ........................ Aggr.: ........................
Telep: ........................ Speed: ........................
Invis: ....................+... Blows: ........................
FrAct: ........................ Shots: ........................
HLife: .......................+ Might: ........................
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwx
!!!!!!!!????-----_===""" !!!!!!!!????-----_==="""
[Home Inventory]
a) 3 Vermilion Potions of Speed {!*}
b) 3 Orange Speckled Potions of Resist Heat
c) 2 Red Speckled Potions of Resist Cold
It cannot be harmed by cold.
d) 15 Pungent Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
e) 15 Metallic Red Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
f) 3 Grey Potions of Healing {!*,=g, 10% off}
g) 4 Dark Blue Potions of Restore Mana
h) an Indigo Potion of Enlightenment
i) 12 Scrolls titled "ab den creme" of Teleportation {!*}
j) 9 Scrolls titled "evsjo ankh" of Teleport Level {!*}
k) 2 Scrolls titled "whoning heankh" of *Identify*
l) a Scroll titled "rhovnep flit" of Recharging
m) 3 Ivory Rods of Fire Bolts
n) a Lead-Plated Wand of Drain Life (4 charges)
o) a Magnesium Wand of Acid Bolts (11 charges) {40% off}
p) an Iron Wand of Acid Balls (4 charges)
It cannot be harmed by acid.
q) 2 Tin Wands of Lightning Balls (5 charges)
It cannot be harmed by electricity.
r) an Ivory Staff of Speed (6 charges)
s) a Quartz Ring of Acid [+13]
It provides resistance to acid. It activates for acid
resistance (20+d20 turns) and acid ball (70) every 50+d50 turns.
It cannot be harmed by acid.
t) a Quartz Ring of Acid [+14] {25% off}
It provides resistance to acid. It activates for acid
resistance (20+d20 turns) and acid ball (70) every 50+d50 turns.
It cannot be harmed by acid.
u) a Pearl Ring of See Invisible
It grants you the ability to see invisible things.
v) a Ruby Amulet of Charisma (+4)
It increases your charisma by 4. It sustains your charisma.
w) an Adamant Amulet of Resistance
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold.
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
x) a Mother-of-Pearl Amulet of Devotion (+1)
It increases your wisdom and charisma by 1. It provides
resistance to fire, light, dark, and life draining. It
sustains your wisdom and charisma. It lights the dungeon
around you. It cannot be harmed by fire.
Azog the Gnome Mage
Began the quest on 09/24/2006 at 04:47 PM
============================================================
CHAR.
| TURN | DEPTH |LEVEL| EVENT
============================================================
| 10406| 150 | 4 | Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 11879| 150 | 5 | Reached level 5
| 14042| 200 | 7 | Killed Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
| 18179| 200 | 10 | Reached level 10
| 34533| Town | 11 | Killed Lotho Pimple
| 52660| 500 | 15 | Reached level 15
| 68642| 550 | 20 | Reached level 20
| 84902| 550 | 25 | Reached level 25
| 88184| 550 | 25 | Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
| 90400| 550 | 25 | Found The Phial of Galadriel
| 189050| 550 | 29 | Killed Lurtz the Uruk-Hai Captain
| 192250| 550 | 29 | Found The Well-balanced Dagger 'Narthanc'
| 192270| 550 | 29 | Found The Beaked Axe of Theoden
| 192280| 550 | 29 | Found The Well-balanced Main Gauche of
Azaghal
| 228473| 550 | 29 | Killed Lokkak, the Ogre Chieftain
| 233038| 550 | 29 | Found The Iron Helm of Gorlim
| 238128| 550 | 30 | Reached level 30
| 244210| 550 | 30 | Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
| 255674| 550 | 30 | Killed Mim, Betrayer of Turin
| 258717| 550 | 30 | Killed Khim, Son of Mim
============================================================
Antoine
pete m wrote:
> Antoine wrote:
> > pete m wrote:
> > > I sent you a proposed todo list to your guildgame email address a few
> > > days ago, when GG was down. I've just started work on that list if you
> > > are interested.
> >
> > Eek! my guildgame address may have chewed that up. I will look for it.
> > If you have a copy can you post it here?
> >
> ----
> Here's my current todo list. It was partially inspired by a Gnome Mage
> character that ran into a wall after killing Lurtz. Just not enough HP
> or firepower to kill Saruman.
All your ideas are excellent and I endorse them thoroughly.
> - Note-file fix(?) I've never seen this bug.
I believe there's a fix for it posted in this thread.
> - Fix Wizard mode start option so you can't use it to save-scum.
> - Migrate from NPP. I don't know to what level--do you want to merge
> the
> Quickband mods into the WIP6 release candidate instead?
Mmm... that might be too much work. Maybe just do some of the low
hanging fruit like any bugfixes in NPP 5?
> I don't know the Bard class, so I can't help there.
Well, low priority.
Thanx for work this far
A.
pete m
Antoine wrote:
>> > ----
> > Here's my current todo list. It was partially inspired by a Gnome Mage
> > character that ran into a wall after killing Lurtz. Just not enough HP
> > or firepower to kill Saruman.
>
> All your ideas are excellent and I endorse them thoroughly.
>
Sorry about the late response --
my home machine is down very, very hard. I'll get back to this when it
recovers. (I'd hoped for a repair today.)