Sound in CD-games
Michael Barklund
Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
or a receiver to hear the music.
Greetings,
Michael
Eric Ong
>
>Hi there,
>
>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>or a receiver to hear the music.
Here's my opinion.
By all means, use CD-audio. Try to record it in the best quality. It is best
to record in a professional studio.
Gregg Seelhoff
m...@belle.dk (Michael Barklund) wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>or a receiver to hear the music.
>
>Michael
Well, _Loom_ (from LucasArts) did it, and several other titles use Red Book
audio to supplement the MIDI and digital sounds. I believe that most
pre-built "multimedia" systems, as well as the CD-ROM/sound card upgrade kits,
have the internal connections. On the other hand, anybody who has an external
CD-ROM doesn't have such a connection. My solution is to have my Altec
Lansing speakers mix channel A (sound card) and channel B (CD-ROM) together,
but I doubt that everyone with an external drive has a similar setup. You
should keep these users in mind when you make your decision. (Also, I have
noticed that some of the mixers found on sound cards badly distort the sound
coming from CD-ROM; I can't stand listening to music this way.)
Another, more problematic, consideration is the fact that a CD-ROM can only
play music while reading from the disc, which effectively eliminates the
possibility of data access while CD audio is playing. To access data on the
CD-ROM, you must first stop the music (gracefully or otherwise). Add to this
the fact that on most standard (i.e. non-XA) format CD-ROMs, the Red Book
audio is guaranteed to be on a different track from the data, increasing the
access time required. Of course, if the game runs entirely from the hard
drive, this would not be a problem.
My opinion is that, while Red Book audio is very appropriate for supplemental,
non-essential audio, it is not a good idea to rely on it as your only source
of music. I would be very interested in hearing others' opinions as well.
Gregg Seelhoff, Technical Director
Sophisticated Software Systems
Moo the Cow
Michael Barklund <m...@belle.dk> wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>or a receiver to hear the music.
In addition to midi, yes. Instead of, no. I, for example, have an
elderly soundblaster with no red book audio input, so I have to switch
the speakers from the soundcard to the CD player -- and some games are
nearly unplayable without digitised sound ( WarCraft springs to mind,
since you can't hear cues like the catapults firing ) And what about
people running the game over a network ( sharing the data CD ) --
having one CD in every machine isn't necessarily an option, in our
office only about half the machines have CDs and hence we can play
WarCraft ( one CD = three players ) but not Command and Conquer ( one
CD per player ) on those machines.
By all means add the music tracks as audio on the CD 'cos if it's
dudey it can be played while (erm) working...
--------------------------------------------+---------------------------------
"It's not a personality.. it's a bulldozer." | Which .INI file do you want to
Keith Lucas -- sill...@wardrobe.demon.co.uk.| reconfigure today (TM) ?
--------------------------------------------+---------------------------------
Clay Hellman
>In article <4b3m0v$q...@thorsen.belle.dk>,
> m...@belle.dk (Michael Barklund) wrote:
>>Hi there,
>>
>>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>>or a receiver to hear the music.
>>
>>Greetings,
>>Michael
You are right on both aspects - Data cannot be read while music is
being played, and not all systems support it. There are many PC games
out there that do this (try FX Fighter and Screamer), and it is their
only source of music. The good thing about having your CD-ROM audio
hooked up through your sound card is that the volume can be
controlled, thus allowing for smooth music fade in/out. (fading out is
more important, so you don't get an abrupt stop in music when you need
to load in some data !!).
Ive played both Sega Saturn AND Sony Playstation games that have this
annoying music stoppage in the middle of a load screen or something.
Why can't they at least fade it off?!?
Clay.
Michael Barklund
: Hi there,
: Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
: that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
: or a receiver to hear the music.
Thanks for the replies. I know it is not possible to load while playing
CD-music, so the idea was to allocate about 15-20MB on the harddisk.
Maybe to much, but I dont know what other games allocate.
Anyway, the reason for this was to get better music, no need to find
a player (very important :-)), and to save some raster-time on slow
machines.
The game is recommended to be run on a 486 33Mhz, but will probably
be able to run on a 386 40Mhz when playing CD-music. To early to say.
Do you know how many with a 486 33Mhz, that will not be able to use
CD-music only.
We will probably go for both if we can find a player (for amiga-modules).
Merry Christmas,
Michael
PS: there is one screen where 15-20MB of animations is needed. Should
these be placed on HD, so there can be CD-music all the way, or should
we just switch to module for this screen (I know it depends on what we
do).
Clay Hellman
>Thanks for the replies. I know it is not possible to load while playing
>CD-music, so the idea was to allocate about 15-20MB on the harddisk.
>Maybe to much, but I dont know what other games allocate.
Well, that is about average for a good PC CD-ROM game.
>Anyway, the reason for this was to get better music, no need to find
>a player (very important :-)), and to save some raster-time on slow
>machines.
Yep yep, that is precisely why its done. Its done on the Saturn and
Playstation, and many PC games do it. Its got its strengths and
weaknesses. Of course on the Saturn and PSX, you are guaranteed your
machine will do it properly, whereas on PC, not all PCs have CD-ROM
audio line going into a mixer capable soundcard. You're right about
saving raster time, although, with todays fast processors, playing a
typical MOD doesn't take much time at all. And playing FM music,
takes none since there's no mixing to do - just synthesizer control.
>PS: there is one screen where 15-20MB of animations is needed. Should
>these be placed on HD, so there can be CD-music all the way, or should
>we just switch to module for this screen (I know it depends on what we
>do).
Major trade-off. You either want CD audio during the animation, or
you want your anim coming off CD realtime. I would go with the one
that ends up saving you the most HD space.
One option would be to play the anim off CD realtime, while playing a
8bit mono 44khz (or stereo at 22khz) sample off the HD.
Clay,
allan_tüchsen
>Hi there,
>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>or a receiver to hear the music.
>Greetings,
>Michael
Well... Thats acceptable!!
I cant imagegine anyone having a CD-ROM installed without connecting
it to a Soundcard !!! (And if it's NOT connected to a soundcard,
there's probably no soundcard at all!)
Just allocate 25 MB on the HD and store your graphical images there,
so you wont have to access the CD-rom for other than musical
purpose...
/Allan
Alec Lazarescu
>
>m...@belle.dk (Michael Barklund) wrote:
>
>>Hi there,
>
>>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>>or a receiver to hear the music.
>
>>Greetings,
>>Michael
>
>Well... Thats acceptable!!
>I cant imagegine anyone having a CD-ROM installed without connecting
>it to a Soundcard !!! (And if it's NOT connected to a soundcard,
>there's probably no soundcard at all!)
Well, I don't know about now. But for the past 6 months or so,
I have searched for an audio cable to connect my Toshiba 4.4x
to my PAS16 sound card and every vendor I went to said they
don't have any for quad speed drives. I'm sure I'm not the
only one with this problem. It's easily solved since I can
plug speakers into both the soundcard and the CDROM output
since I have 2 sets, but many computer illiterate people
would call customer support over something like this...
It should at least be mentioned in the troubleshooting
section of any program that does this sort of thing.
Rainer Deyke
: m...@belle.dk (Michael Barklund) wrote:
: >Hi there,
: >Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
: >that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
: >or a receiver to hear the music.
: >Greetings,
: >Michael
: Well... Thats acceptable!!
: I cant imagegine anyone having a CD-ROM installed without connecting
: it to a Soundcard !!! (And if it's NOT connected to a soundcard,
: there's probably no soundcard at all!)
: Just allocate 25 MB on the HD and store your graphical images there,
: so you wont have to access the CD-rom for other than musical
: purpose...
There is nothing (well almost nothing) I find as annoying as a CD-ROM game
that uses huge gobs of hard drive (25 MB!?!?) and still requires the CD-ROM
drive to run. The point of CD-ROM games is to save hard drive space. The
point of CD-ROM games that install to the hard drive is that they don't
require the CD-ROM driver loaded (or allow you to use another CD-ROM at
the same time in a multitasking environment). Using a CD-ROM drive and
a hard drive at the same time is beyond stupid. If any CD-ROM game I
buy requires 25 MB it goes right back to the store.
--
+------------------------------------------------------+
| "Fumbling in frustration, inside soul torn apart |
| Feel the loss of paradise, leave an empty heart |
| Closing eyes will shut out, the warm light of a life |
| Grip is fading slowly, for each day passing by" |
| - Desultory, "A Closing Eye" |
+------------------------------------------------------+
| Rainer Deyke (rai...@mdddhd.fc.hp.com) |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Glenn Corpes
> game
> that uses huge gobs of hard drive (25 MB!?!?) and still requires the
> CD-ROM
> drive to run. The point of CD-ROM games is to save hard drive space.
> The
> point of CD-ROM games that install to the hard drive is that they don't
> require the CD-ROM driver loaded (or allow you to use another CD-ROM at
> the same time in a multitasking environment). Using a CD-ROM drive and
> a hard drive at the same time is beyond stupid. If any CD-ROM game I
> buy requires 25 MB it goes right back to the store.
It's quite justifiable to copy some data to the hard disk, Magic carpet
copies about 4 meg and accesses it via a heap manager, allowing 4 meg of
sprite data to work in a few hundred K on a 4 meg machine with almost no
slowdown. You state that it's OK though if the whole thing runs of your
hard drive, I see you don't mind wasting a bit of hard drive if it
enables you to use a pirate copy :)
_\/ __
\ / \ gco...@ea.com
|\ \/ / Bullfrog
| \/ /___/_Productions
|| /___ \
allan_tüchsen
I think, noone stated it was ok that the entire game ran from HD! What
was stated is: copying 25 MB of graphical images to HD is ok, if it
makes CD sound possible instead of the soundblaster (or even worse,
ADLIB) sound.
I have seen Michaels game, and I think it will be played for hours and
hours and hours... I therefore prefer CD quality music instead of 4
channel Amiga music at any time. Even at the cost of 25 MB of HD!!!!
/Allan Tüchsen
Dustin Nulf
>
> > There is nothing (well almost nothing) I find as annoying as a CD-ROM
> > game
> > that uses huge gobs of hard drive (25 MB!?!?) and still requires the
> > CD-ROM
> > drive to run.
> It's quite justifiable to copy some data to the hard disk, Magic carpet
> copies about 4 meg and accesses it via a heap manager, allowing 4 meg of
> sprite data to work in a few hundred K on a 4 meg machine with almost no
> slowdown. You state that it's OK though if the whole thing runs of your
> hard drive, I see you don't mind wasting a bit of hard drive if it
> enables you to use a pirate copy :)
Not to mention if you have red-book audio on the CDrom... you definitely
wouldn't want to copy all that digital sound to your hard drive.
Dustin
Dark Force
Moo the Cow
>m...@belle.dk (Michael Barklund) wrote:
>
>>Hi there,
>
>>Will it be acceptable for a CD-game to only have CD-music, meaning
>>that the CD-rom drive will have to be connected to the soundcard
>>or a receiver to hear the music.
>
>>Greetings,
>>Michael
>
>Well... Thats acceptable!!
>I cant imagegine anyone having a CD-ROM installed without connecting
>it to a Soundcard !!! (And if it's NOT connected to a soundcard,
>there's probably no soundcard at all!)
I can. SB 2.0 cards (for example) don't have a mixer - and therefore
don't have a Red Book audio line.
>Just allocate 25 MB on the HD and store your graphical images there,
>so you wont have to access the CD-rom for other than musical
>purpose...
Oh -- nice. It's a good job I can only play one game at once under DOS
then.. there won't be room for two...
Rainer Deyke
: > There is nothing (well almost nothing) I find as annoying as a CD-ROM
: > game
: > that uses huge gobs of hard drive (25 MB!?!?) and still requires the
: > CD-ROM
: > point of CD-ROM games that install to the hard drive is that they don't
: > require the CD-ROM driver loaded (or allow you to use another CD-ROM at
: > the same time in a multitasking environment). Using a CD-ROM drive and
: > a hard drive at the same time is beyond stupid. If any CD-ROM game I
: > buy requires 25 MB it goes right back to the store.
: It's quite justifiable to copy some data to the hard disk, Magic carpet
: copies about 4 meg and accesses it via a heap manager, allowing 4 meg of
: sprite data to work in a few hundred K on a 4 meg machine with almost no
: slowdown. You state that it's OK though if the whole thing runs of your
: hard drive, I see you don't mind wasting a bit of hard drive if it
: enables you to use a pirate copy :)
I prefer it if I either have a choice or it only uses a very small portion
of my hard drive for virtual memory, saved games, etc.. Some CD-ROM games
(such as Wing Commander 2) are actually floppy/hard drive games distributed
on CD-ROM for convenience. Since I am unable to run Wing Commander 2 from
CD-ROM (due to the memory required by the CD-ROM driver), I would definitely
prefer it if it installed to my hard drive. However, I would prefer it
even more if it ran from the CD-ROM drive. As for Magic Carpet, 4 megs are
justifiable, 25 are not.