Which companies made the best parts?
Hunty
getting whatever parts I could, regardless of manufacturer. Now that
I've amassed a fairly sizable pile of parts, however, I'm noticing the
differences in their construction -- some major and some minor -- and
am wondering which ones people consider the "best" ones. I know coils
are pretty much all the same, and stand-up targets and "10 point"
targets, and everyone apparently used the same mechanisms for their
pop bumpers (with the exception of Sega's wacky "weeble" pop bumpers
from the 70s), but I've noticed some differences in flipper mech
design, and some especially big differences in drop target mechs.
So, whose were the best flippers, the best drop targets, the best
slingshots, etc.? Which ones had the best feel, were the most
responsive, the most reliable or the easiest to repair? Also, and just
as important, what made them the best?
Flipper City Phoenix
I like the 90's flipper assemblys, The early wms drop targets(flat)
seem to be unbreakable.
I have to say I like the 80's gottlieb slings the best(when their
working right, their fast & strong).
Carrol
Hunty
> I like the 90's flipper assemblys, The early wms drop targets(flat)
> seem to be unbreakable.
> I have to say I like the 80's gottlieb slings the best(when their
> working right, their fast & strong).
> Carrol
would that be "fliptronics" flippers? Am I correct in thinking that
"fliptronics" is just the brand name of the WPC flipper assembly, or
does it have a more specific meaning than that?
Hunty
Nevermind, found the answer to that question on Clay's WPC repair
guide:
Gott Lieb?
later EMs until Bonebusters, the brick design, was the best they
offered. And most of the time were built like bricks. However, the WMS
Sys9 / 11 flippers are the most responsive with the best flipper stroke.
Bally linear flippers aren't that great, and Bally's earlier flipper
design is pretty much the same as WMS earlier designs. Neither are
anything to write home about.
For drop targets, I have to give the nod to GTB during the late Sys1 and
Sys80 time period. They're easy to work on, and the targets drop when
they're suppose to. The GTB early Sys1 drop target mechanics are very
close, except for the difference in the bottom and backing plate. This
makes all the world of difference when servicing them. They're more
time consuming to work on. And forget about the newer GTB drop target
design from the late Sys80B and Sys3 period. Those things are junk!
WMS was lacking in its early drop target designs. The actual drop
target was built well, but the use of horseshoe contacts on miniature
circuit boards was just plain asinine. I really dislike Bally drop
targets and their assys. They don't drop with direct hard hits, and are
the most difficult to work on / replace drop targets.
Pop bumpers from all manufacturers are pretty much the same when it
comes to responsiveness, but all differ slightly in designs. I would
pick classic Stern over most any of them. The bodies were universal
with older Bally and WMS, and you could remove the whole assy w/o
removing the lamp socket first. WMS needed to make better yoke assys.
with their pops. If a game has 3 pops, you can be pretty much
guaranteed that at least one yoke was broken. GTBs are great
mechanically, but I don't like the bodies and caps. Although, Sys1 and
EM pops from GTB would break switches. Bally pops weren't bad until
they switched to the bodies with tabs, which would break.
GTB made the best slings, WMS second, then classic Stern, then Bally.
The Bally linear slings are crap, because they break. Just a poor
design IMO.
Jim
Hunty
thoroughly explaining why! :)
Gott Lieb?
really mention it below, but GTB made some of the best quality mechanics
from the 70's and 80's, and the 50's and 60's for that matter. There
were only a couple of flawed designs, (I'm speaking mechanically, of
course :-) ), that they changed when they stumbled across the flaw.
However, starting near the end of the Sys80B platform, around '88,
things started to go downhill for them. The mechanics weren't made or
designed as well. WMS wasn't bad overall, but had some slight issues.
Sterns weren't bad either with only some small issues. But, Bally had
issues. They took some mediocre designs, and made them even worse
around '81.
Jim
KYPinGuy
I've worked on several flavors of EM, -35 Bally, WMS System 11, DE and
now Gtb Sys3, and I have to say that I was blown away at how well the
Sys3 was designed. Everything has disconnects, it's all pretty well
designed like a tank (except for the drops which seemed flimsy) and was
fused like crazy! It was apparent to me that GTB had put the money into
designing this pin for maintenance. Sys11 machines were are probably my
second choice since I still see a ton of them still flipping, despite a
complete lack of maintenance. I know one operator that still runs a
Pinbot on location!
Hunty
Wow! That is impressive that someone's still running a Pinbot on
location. It's interesting that you were really impressed with the
System 3, but Gott Lieb says that that was when GTB started going
downhill. Maybe you should check out a System 80 sometime! :)
AL
> I had a feeling you'd lean toward Gottlieb, but thanks for so
> thoroughly explaining why! :)
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but Jim's appreciation for
and knowledge of pins and their manufacturers goes far beyond his very
creative username.
I agree with him on the flipper mechs I think Gottliebs' 76-77 design
if the most well engineered out there. All physical motion and
absorption is based uopn the mech's chassis. If your plan is to mount
to MDF, then perhaps this design would be the most adaptable as the
holes for the bushing mounts are not near the shaft hole.
In fact I would go with all Gottlieb parts from that era, but I know
the aesthetics of those pop bumpers probably wouldn't be desirable.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com
GPE
"Hunty" <luvc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f66d328a-a347-4735...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
There's a Little Kings in North East Omaha that still has a Gottlieb Bad
Girls on location.
Really a clean machine. Ugly as sin... but really clean.
-- Ed
seymour-shabow
Best drops= Gottlieb they were the most reliable and always 'drop'
because they didn't use one spring where 2 were required like every else
did. WMS were the worst. Stern and Bally targets sometimes have
problems with hard hits dropping. (Bally bricks)
Slings don't really matter too much. Even the bally linear slings are ok.
Best flippers = 2nd generation stern with the plastic link - they last
forever, and feel great.
Best pops would be gottliebs, built like tanks. For performance though
I like stern plastic ones, they feel different than any other and
because the ring is plastic, it goes faster which means better response.
-scott CARGPB#29
CornCob
> "Hunty" <luvcr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Thats what happens when you get a good op as well I'm sure as no
matter how good your parts are if they ain't cleaned and maintained...
Ping
Gott Lieb?
is that *some* of the same designs used in earlier designs changed
slightly, and not for the better. The new mechanical designs for Sys3
were problematic in some cases, such as the auto ball fire mech., the
VUKs, the flipper redesign, the drop target cage, and some game specific
"toy" mechs. But, I do agree that Sys3s were built with maintenance in
mind, (easily removable lamp boards with bayonet sockets, parts
placement stenciling under the PF, etc.).
Jim
Hunty
Oh, interesting. I didn't realize anyone made a pop with a plastic
ring. Thanks!
Gott Lieb?
http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3100&picno=33404&zoom=1. But most of
AL's, not Mr. Garber ;-), mechanics were made from plastic. I think
they did it just to cut costs, as opposed to Stern's reasoning.
I'll have to make it over to Scott's party next year to see what all the
hub-bub is about with these classic Sterns. :-)
Jim
seymour-shabow
> Allied Leisure used plastic rods and rings too, as seen in this pic -
> http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3100&picno=33404&zoom=1. But most of
> AL's, not Mr. Garber ;-), mechanics were made from plastic. I think
> they did it just to cut costs, as opposed to Stern's reasoning.
>
> I'll have to make it over to Scott's party next year to see what all the
> hub-bub is about with these classic Sterns. :-)
>
Stern did it as a cost cutting move too, I believe these were off the
shelf replacements from Wico at the time or from a toy. Bill Morrison
knows more about that than I do. As a very pleasant side effect, they
PLAY better than a metal rod n ring. First appeared on Cheetah right
after seawitch. I want to retrofit them into seawitch and big game,
galaxy and meteor are fine with the metal rings. The spread of the pop
nests on BG and SW would benefit from faster response for more pop hang
time.
The bases crack on these from mishandling so I'm in need of a couple.
They are also affected adversely from heat so if you let your machines
cook while you are moving them that's not a good thing.
I wonder if the allied are the same units......
-scott CARGPB#29
Gott Lieb?
http://www.jtamusements.com/allied_leisure_parts.jpg. I may still have
one pop assy. left. If I do, you're welcome to try it out.
Jim
seymour-shabow wrote:
<snip>
seymour-shabow
The allied parts are COMPLETELY different!
Oh well, the search goes on. Those allied parts look like they won't
ding up the ball though that's probably a good thing.
-scott CARGPB#29
Hunty
maybe you could make a nylon sleeve to put on the metal ring? That way
you keep the durability of the metal, but get the reduced friction of
plastic. Or is it more of a weight issue than a friction issue?
seymour-shabow
>
> maybe you could make a nylon sleeve to put on the metal ring? That way
> you keep the durability of the metal, but get the reduced friction of
> plastic. Or is it more of a weight issue than a friction issue?
It's the weight issue. The plastic parts weigh so much less than the metal.
-scott CARGPB#29
Hunty
> The Bally linear slings are crap, because they break. Just a poor
> design IMO.
>
> Jim
What do you think of the new Stern's slings, with the sort of "all in
one" design that also houses the leaf switches?