Transformers Tutorial by Bowen at PAPA

[MHS]

New tutorial is up on the blog. Hope you all enjoy.

http://papa.org/blog/

Information and Pre-registration for the PAPA 15 World Championships
is also available at

http://papa.org/papa15/index.php

[Steven]

Nice video, great play: thanks.

[sepins]

Can't imaging playing against him! Great player and great ball control.
You could drink an entire beer waiting for your turn if playing against
him :confused:


--
sepins
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Joe Entropy]

I love Bowen's tutorials. And at an hour and change, this shatters his TSPP length by 15 minutes... I'm definitely hooking up the computer to the TV so I can watch this one on the couch.
Joe

[alleycat pinball]

great video, thanks for posting

[TheKorn]

MHS <mhs...@mac.com> wrote in news:7c927a63-1691-43b9-85a7-53950e8f8bd2
@w10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

And people wonder why pinball has lost popularity... over an hour to explain the
rules? I want to play a game, I don't want to file my taxes.

I'm for rule depth, but only *to a point*. After that, it's no longer fun and is
more like work.

--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
DVD?

http://www.webwidevideo.com/

[Frank Furhter]

sepins wrote:
> Can't imaging playing against him! Great player and great ball control.
> You could drink an entire beer waiting for your turn if playing against
> him :confused:

You're a nurse.

[Frank Furhter]

TheKorn wrote:
> MHS<mhs...@mac.com> wrote in news:7c927a63-1691-43b9-85a7-53950e8f8bd2
> @w10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:
>
>> New tutorial is up on the blog. Hope you all enjoy.
>>
>> http://papa.org/blog/
>>
>> Information and Pre-registration for the PAPA 15 World Championships
>> is also available at
>>
>> http://papa.org/papa15/index.php
>
> And people wonder why pinball has lost popularity... over an hour to explain the
> rules? I want to play a game, I don't want to file my taxes.
>
> I'm for rule depth, but only *to a point*. After that, it's no longer fun and is
> more like work.
>

I have said this many times over and over. This is why EMs are so
freaking fun to play, simple to the point and still have plenty of
'skill shots'. Deep rules ruined pinball, completely destroyed it.

[Steven]

> > And people wonder why pinball has lost popularity...  over an hour to explain the
> > rules?  I want to play a game, I don't want to file my taxes.
>
> > I'm for rule depth, but only *to a point*.  After that, it's no longer fun and is
> > more like work.
>
> I have said this many times over and over.  This is why EMs are so
> freaking fun to play, simple to the point and still have plenty of

> 'skill shots'.  Deep rules ruined pinball, completely destroyed it.- Hide quoted text -
>

I don't agree: there can be simple rules in a game AS WELL as deep
rules. I always use DrWho as an example: I loved it when I was 16 and
didn't know anything else but how to start multiball and score
jackpots and I still love it now I have it at home, for the
versitality of strategies and rules make it a great game. At first-
time-player I always explain a few main-things and they always like
the game. Deep rules don't rule out simple, understandable and fun
rules as well! If programmed well, you can have both.

[Frank Furhter]

You can have both, but you don't today. Transition to complex mind
bending 70+ minute games ruined pins on location. For pin masturbation
at home, it makes sense (sorta) since in many ways pinball today from
Sterno PinCo is supplementing but not supposed to take away from a movie
license/showing/experience. Pin on location is dead in large part
because of Steve Richie and others making deep rules the norm.

[Jim T]

Love that guy. I would play him for $20, and give him the 20 bucks just for his awesome contribution to the game.

[Rare Hero]

On May 18, 8:26 am, Frank Furhter <fr...@furhter.com> wrote:
> I have said this many times over and over.  This is why EMs are so

> freaking boring to play, simple and boring.  Deep rules saved pinball, completely made it fun.

Fixed.

[Tom G WI]

You can't blame pinball companies because people are stupid.
Reinventing the wheel isn't going to help either. Yeah let's go back to
EMs. Nice. Let's truly eliminate pinball from locations. Dumbass.

--
Tom G WI

[Tom G WI]

You can't seriously blame them because people are stupid.

[Bowen Kerins]

If it were just about explaining the rules, the whole thing could be done inside of 2 minutes. The tutorials are as much, or more, about execution of skills and the tournament mindset. Also, I didn't exactly plan for that game to last that long...

As for Todd's comments about EMs, there are EM tutorials and more coming, but I'm unclear about how interesting they would be. Say we do a tutorial on Monaco -- won't that be more boring? Get the ball, shoot the spinner. If bonus is maxed, shoot the lane. Don't shoot for the target except once for double bonus.

There's really not much more to say than that, and the execution of skills won't really be that interesting. My opinion only, of course, and I'd love to have some specific recommendations for good games worth recording in the next round.

Thanks for watching and keep up the opinions on what we should and shouldn't be trying.
- Bowen

[Tom G WI]

Thanks for all your tutorial Bowen. They are awesome and you rock.

[phishrace]

On May 18, 7:00 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> And people wonder why pinball has lost popularity...  over an hour to explain the
> rules?  I want to play a game, I don't want to file my taxes.
>
> I'm for rule depth, but only *to a point*.  After that, it's no longer fun and is
> more like work.

If you watched the whole video, you know it wasn't an hour of
explaining rules. It was two long games with commentary. He talks
about strategy more than rules. For most players, hearing strategy
talk from one of the world's best players is priceless. Over an hour
on TF is something to be thankful for. As are all the tutorials.
Relax.

-phish

[TheKorn]

Bowen Kerins <bke...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:eb319409-6fed-40f8...@googlegroups.com:

> If it were just about explaining the rules, the whole thing could be
> done inside of 2 minutes. The tutorials are as much, or more, about
> execution of skills and the tournament mindset. Also, I didn't
> exactly plan for that game to last that long...

No no no, don't get me wrong, I watched the whole thing and enjoyed it! (Didn't
mean to take anything away from you *at all* on that -- definitely a "stand up and
clap" good job on this video!) [OK sometimes I had another window up and was just
listening to the commentary, but I did get through the whole thing! :) ]

My original comment was more of the order that to play transformers well you
really NEED a strategy guide. I find the concept preposterous; if it takes hours
of study of the rules to ensure that one will do well then only those who spend
the time to study the rules for hours WILL do well. I think transformers falls
hard on its face in this department; you made a remark that parallels one of my
own observations that every single mode in transformers (skinflap mode excepted)
plays and feels exactly the same. Those are what your average player (let's not
even get started about below average) are going to encounter and when there isn't
much there that's interesting, having a strategy for things twenty minutes into
the game is nice but nobody winds up caring.

> As for Todd's comments about EMs, there are EM tutorials and more
> coming, but I'm unclear about how interesting they would be. Say we
> do a tutorial on Monaco -- won't that be more boring? Get the ball,
> shoot the spinner. If bonus is maxed, shoot the lane. Don't shoot
> for the target except once for double bonus.

It'd certainly be a shorter video! He he he...

> There's really not much more to say than that, and the execution of
> skills won't really be that interesting. My opinion only, of course,
> and I'd love to have some specific recommendations for good games
> worth recording in the next round.
>
> Thanks for watching and keep up the opinions on what we should and
> shouldn't be trying. - Bowen

I think you're more responding to Todd here, but definitely thanks for doing the
transformers video! (The 96M super was quite impressive!) I was just commenting
on the NEED for such an in-depth strategy guide.

I'd offer comments and/or suggestions on what games to video next, but I don't
think I could offer anything additive; you guys have done a good mix of games so
far and I don't see any glaring need to change things up. (That's a big
compliment, in case it's not obvious! :) )

[TheKorn]

phishrace <phis...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:f727d5cb-afa6-4502-9cf4-
a6fd7d...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> If you watched the whole video, you know it wasn't an hour of
> explaining rules. It was two long games with commentary. He talks
> about strategy more than rules. For most players, hearing strategy
> talk from one of the world's best players is priceless. Over an hour
> on TF is something to be thankful for. As are all the tutorials.

I DID watch the entire video, thank you very much. You missed the point entirely,
which is that such a video is necessary in the first place.

I wasn't taking anything away from bowen AT ALL; I was commenting on the need for an
hour long strategy guide to be produced in the first place.

[cody chunn]

That is exactly what turned me off of modern tournaments. If you don't have
easy access to every new game that comes out, you don't have a chance. If
you show up for a tourney on a game(s) that you have never seen before, and
your opponents have had glass-off access for weeks, there is NO WAY you can
compete. It doesn't matter how good you are. You would spend a fortune just
trying to cobble together a half-assed strategy and still be miles behind
the others because you don't know how to manipulate the rules for maximum
scoring. It's too much of a handicap.

-cody



"TheKorn" wrote in message news:XnsA0584C34B...@69.16.185.252...

[Joe S]

Awesome tutorial as usual.....thanks Bowen and Mark...

[jcharlton]

cody chunn;1942403 Wrote:
> That is exactly what turned me off of modern tournaments. If you don't
> have easy access to every new game that comes out, you don't have a
> chance. If you show up for a tourney on a game(s) that you have never
> seen before, and your opponents have had glass-off access for weeks,
> there is NO WAY you can compete. It doesn't matter how good you are. You
> would spend a fortune just trying to cobble together a half-assed
> strategy and still be miles behind the others because you don't know how
> to manipulate the rules for maximum scoring. It's too much of a
> handicap.
>
> -cody
>
>

I think this may be one of the main reasons these tutorials are such a
valuable tool, and hopefully one way to get people back to tournaments
that may be turned off for exactly the same reason you cite.

In the weeks leading up to Pinburgh this year (my first year there) I
was stuck to the tutorial and gameplay videos like glue. I studied
online rule sheets and took notes that turned out to be invaluable
during the tournament.

Without those videos and tutorials (along with the plethora of rulesheet
links they had, too) there's no way I would have been half as
competitive at Pinburgh as I was.


--
jcharlton

[Todd S.]

Tutorials are the bomb!!

[cody chunn]

I agree. The videos are great.

-cody


"jcharlton" wrote in message news:jcharlto...@rrgparchive.com...

[tcvideo2001]

Great job on the tutorials Bowen! I also agree with the point that if
you don't study and know all the deep rule sets of these new
machines,you have no chance in a tourney chock full of those that do
know every little rule of a game.I have a lot of raw pinball skill from
almost living in pinball arcades in the 70's and early 80's but im
totally lost on these new dmd's.Hit this 4 times which starts
that...don't hit this before you hit this...stack this with this...I
find many of the rules to be so deep they are confusing to me so I just
say the heck with it and randomly flail away at anything lit.


--
tcvideo2001

[Eskaybee]

NOTE: TLDR (too long didnt read) text at the bottom.

TF really gets misrepresented in its modes layout, let me help those out
that don't understand. Yes, each single ball mode is shoot the orange
lights; but if you think about it, LoTR is the same thing, just red
lights and it doesn't tell you how many shots you have left. Here's a
little breakdown:

Bumblebee: this mode is very time mode based, moreso than any of the
others. Meaning, it has the shortest amount of time to complete. You
have to hit all the main shots in a very small amount of time, no time
for ball traps, very combo'esk style mode. Faster you make shots the
bigger the final jackpot shot is which after the final mode shot resets
the timer for the final bumblebee jackpot shot. very fast and fun mode

Ironhide: you have a limited amount of time to make one shot (OP), if
you do the timer resets. Now you have to hit the SS ramp and IH ramp.
Make those to reset the timer. Now get OP, SS, and IH - do it reset the
timer. Now get OP, SS, IH, left loop, right loop to complete mode. Very
awesome and fun mode.

Ratchet: most boring and generic mode which is where I believe everyone
thinks all the modes are the same. Basically just hit all the orange
lights til you make 11. As I said, very generic.

Starscream: shoot either all spark or left loop; if so the shots rotate
one step clockwise to left loop and left ramp. Next is left ramp and OP,
then OP and right ramp, then right ramp and right loop. After all those
shots are made the 2 target lights dance around the pf staying on each
target for 1-2 secs. Timing, accuracy is the key. One of my favorite
decepticon modes. Very technical, very fun.

Shockwave: another fairly generic mode but the animations and sounds
make it awesome. Shoot all spark, then right ramp. Do that then 3 left
shots light, make one then three right shots light. And continues to
alternate until all shots are made. Yes, generic but like I said sounds
and animations drive this mode.

Blackout: somewhat generic but in a different way. Random left shot
lights. Then random right shot, then 2 random left, 2 random right, then
3 random left, then 3 random right. Not as generic as shockwave and
ratchet but a little close. Again, the sounds and animations in this
mode are brilliant!

Devastator: very technical mode. Every other shot will reset the timer.
The mode starts with the right loop - this is the main shot for the
mode. Every other shot will light the right loop; kind of like a hit on
devastator. Once you make the pop bumpers determine the in between shot.
Make that to reset the time. Technical, slow but fun mode. Probably the
hardest of all the modes.

So as you can see, there's only 2 modes that are really similar. The
problem, and why people feel the modes are repetitive is that there's
nothing else going on in the game during modes; sure you could start a
multiball. But there's no other mini tasks. This is where the LE could
shine if they allowed SS and IH to be achieved during modes. That, or
add some stackable mini modes to the game.

TLDR: modes aren't the same, it's the lack of extra awards and mini
modes that can stack with standard modes.


--
Eskaybee

[phishrace]

On May 19, 5:31 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> I DID watch the entire video, thank you very much.  You missed the point entirely,
> which is that such a video is necessary in the first place.

None of the tutorial videos are necessary. That's what makes them so
cool. You don't need to watch a tutorial or read a rulesheet to get
better on virtually any newer Stern. You only need to do two things:

1. Play the game a lot.
2. Shoot the flashing shots.

Stern has been much better about guiding the player than WMS ever was.
I do find it encouraging that that there is more gameplay talk around
here recently. More complicated rules may play a part in that, but
going by the new handles posting in the gameplay threads, it's obvious
many new (home) players are asking questions. The tutorials are also
playing a part. More gameplay talk here. That's a good thing!

-phish

[phishrace]

On May 19, 5:44 am, "cody chunn" <cchu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> That is exactly what turned me off of modern tournaments. If you don't have
> easy access to every new game that comes out, you don't have a chance. If
> you show up for a tourney on a game(s) that you have never seen before, and
> your opponents have had glass-off access for weeks, there is NO WAY you can
> compete. It doesn't matter how good you are. You would spend a fortune just
> trying to cobble together a half-assed strategy and still be miles behind
> the others because you don't know how to manipulate the rules for maximum
> scoring. It's too much of a handicap.

Do you think if you got a new game and played it for a month you could
beat Bowen on it 2 out of 3 if he had never played one?

I rest my case.

-phish

[Frank Furhter]

TheKorn wrote:
> phishrace<phis...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:f727d5cb-afa6-4502-9cf4-
> a6fd7d...@b1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> If you watched the whole video, you know it wasn't an hour of
>> explaining rules. It was two long games with commentary. He talks
>> about strategy more than rules. For most players, hearing strategy
>> talk from one of the world's best players is priceless. Over an hour
>> on TF is something to be thankful for. As are all the tutorials.
>
> I DID watch the entire video, thank you very much. You missed the point entirely,
> which is that such a video is necessary in the first place.
>
> I wasn't taking anything away from bowen AT ALL; I was commenting on the need for an
> hour long strategy guide to be produced in the first place.
>

Exactly, its like the SS and beyond pinheads think this is the norm.
The point I took away and should have IMHO from the original comment was
the need for such at all. It is why pinball sucks today, that someone
has to explain with tourney strategy and by design the game in question.
Sadly, these games are the exact reason why pinball is for the most
part uninteresting to a majority of players over 35/40 (a majority of
the markets) and have no access point for noobs. Just too long to
learn/invest, and really the objective of a game that is 45 minutes long
vs that which is 3-5 minutes long is to *enjoy* and not feel likes it a
chore or job to get good. There is so much 'hidden' in an EM, but so
many miss due to lack of actual 2" flip skills. The former just takes
up WAY more of your life to learn and ultimately is exclusionary to
others, folks getting geezer in life don't see the value in the long and
likely short term. Its bullshit for the past 30 years of pinball and
heading in the continued *wrong* direction.

[Frank Furhter]

And yet you were still uncompetitive. Do you really think the average
entry level noob is going to be repeatedly interested in his ass handed
to him? Seriously? I'm all for elevating the level of skills, and
knowledge, yet we are talking here about tourney, and game making money.
Both of which are exclusionary at best. Pinball in the wild, and
tourney needs to be about having fun and enjoying life, not about some
handful of self righteous folks calling themselves *great* on the weekends.

[yancy]

phishrace;1942504 Wrote:
> You don't need to watch a tutorial or read a rulesheet to get better on
> virtually any newer Stern. You only need to do two things:
>
> 1. Play the game a lot.
> 2. Shoot the flashing shots.

Disagree. You need to know why and when to shoot a flashing shot, and
perhaps more importantly, when not to. Bowen's TF tutorial isn't so much
"here's how this mode works" as "don't start Optimus multiball until you
stack mode X" or "some players purposely don't finish Mudflap & Skids so
they can keep cycling through it for unlimited two-ball multiball."
Strategy is not simply knowing the rules; it's learning how championship
caliber players exploit the rules.


--
yancy

[yancy]

phishrace;1942511 Wrote:
> Do you think if you got a new game and played it for a month you could
> beat Bowen on it 2 out of 3 if he had never played one?
>
> I rest my case.

That's an extreme example. As someone who competes with roughly
equally-skilled players (Chicago Pinball Mafia) on a regular basis,
learning a winning strategy can make all the difference. No amount of
study or practice could bring me to Bowen's level. But that's okay, I
don't compete with Bowen.

There's a decent chance we'll play TF in league tonight. I feel much
better going into it after watching that tutorial.

[Bowen Kerins]

> >> That is exactly what turned me off of modern tournaments. If you don't
> >> have easy access to every new game that comes out, you don't have a
> >> chance. If you show up for a tourney on a game(s) that you have never
> >> seen before, and your opponents have had glass-off access for weeks,
> >> there is NO WAY you can compete.

Glass-off access? I don't know who has that. I also think that playing pinball is a learning experience. Many, many times I have shown up for a tournament on games that I have never seen before, among opponents who had access. Learning from other players is then very important. I also think many people assume that a good competitive strategy needs to be complicated, when it doesn't. A good competitive strategy should be explainable in 30-60 seconds. I know dozens of examples where players have won tournaments on unfamiliar games by taking a simple, sustainable route through a game. Among the games I saw for the first time ever at a tournament: CSI, Avatar, AC/DC, Transformers, Terminator 3, Elvis, Monopoly, The Shadow, Dirty Harry, Star Trek TNG, Tommy, a ton more. Pinball is a learning experience -- frankly if it weren't, a lot of us would be bored by now.

Part of the tutorials' purpose is info: now if you show up and Transformers is there, you'll know what to do. The Pinball Archive (pinball.org/videos) now has over 200 game videos, including dozens of EMs and early solid state machines, all with quality gameplay and many with voiced-over tutorials. Its intent is to help players get more interested and play more pinball. The hope is that each new game gets video coverage pretty quickly when it comes out, and that the archive of older games gets more complete over time.

> > In the weeks leading up to Pinburgh this year (my first year there) I
> > was stuck to the tutorial and gameplay videos like glue. I studied
> > online rule sheets and took notes that turned out to be invaluable
> > during the tournament.

Say thanks the next time you see Mark, since he puts forth a ridiculous amount of work on this project. It is ongoing, and now many other people are joining in the effort to help inform players about rules and strategy.

> Do you really think the average entry level noob is going to be repeatedly interested in his ass handed
> to him?

No, I absolutely don't, and that is why I feel tournaments and pinball events need to cater to all classes of player, especially players who are new or casual. If pinball has any hope for growth, the growth will come from these players and the others they drag along.

I don't think tournaments need to be exclusionary. You can be competitive while offering chances for all players to have fun, be social, and enjoy. Pinburgh will have over 300 players next year, each paying $100 + charity coin drop for 140 balls of pinball with friends without fear of elimination or shame, and the majority of those players will enter the tournament knowing they're not going to win A Division. But there are 70+ other cash prizes, and hours of entertainment for everyone. It rocks. And then every one of those players gets better from learning how to play unfamiliar machines, and from observing opponents' strategies and skills.

> tourney needs to be about having fun and enjoying life

Sounds perfect. Why do we all play pinball? Same reason. If the tournament isn't fun, what are we doing??

> not about some
> handful of self righteous folks calling themselves *great* on the weekends.

Man, you must have gone to a really horrible tournament.
- Bowen

[Rare Hero]

On May 19, 12:33 pm, Frank Furhter <fr...@furhter.com> wrote:
> Exactly, its like the SS and beyond pinheads think this is the norm.
> The point I took away and should have IMHO from the original comment was
> the need for such at all.  It is why pinball sucks today, that someone
> has to explain with tourney strategy and by design the game in question.
>   Sadly, these games are the exact reason why pinball is for the most
> part uninteresting to a majority of players over 35/40 (a majority of
> the markets) and have no access point for noobs.  Just too long to
> learn/invest, and really the objective of a game that is 45 minutes long
> vs that which is 3-5 minutes long is to *enjoy* and not feel likes it a
> chore or job to get good.  There is so much 'hidden' in an EM, but so
> many miss due to lack of actual 2" flip skills.  The former just takes
> up WAY more of your life to learn and ultimately is exclusionary to
> others, folks getting geezer in life don't see the value in the long and
> likely short term.  Its bullshit for the past 30 years of pinball and
> heading in the continued *wrong* direction.

Translation:
"WAAAAAH, I'm too stupid to shoot the flashing shots, listen to the
sound calls, and learn new things as I play...WAAAHHH!"

Greg

[Bowen Kerins]

> My original comment was more of the order that to play transformers well you
> really NEED a strategy guide. I find the concept preposterous; if it takes hours
> of study of the rules to ensure that one will do well then only those who spend
> the time to study the rules for hours WILL do well.

Ah. Maybe what we need are "quick take" strategy guides for games that take only a minute or two to explain. The tutorial vids go into gory detail about games, but a player doesn't need all the information to do well. Designers are a little stuck here: if the game doesn't have enough depth people lose interest, but if the game isn't simple enough people won't get interested to begin with. The best games manage this balance really well.

> Those are what your average player (let's not
> even get started about below average) are going to encounter and when there isn't
> much there that's interesting, having a strategy for things twenty minutes into
> the game is nice but nobody winds up caring.

Well my strategy for modes is: "Start a mode and shoot what's flashing. If it's Skidflap mode, use it to go for Optimus." Mostly, when each mode started, I didn't recall what it did.

> I was just commenting on the NEED for such an in-depth strategy guide.

It's a good point and I will try to change the impression. Maybe we should make "short form" and "long form" tutorials. Also, just the way the work is set up, the tutorial is always at least one entire game, and since I'm stuck talking the whole time I'm likely to comment on lots of things that don't ultimately matter in playing the game. So, a short form tutorial could look a lot different while still informing. My opinion is that most of the people who would watch the short form will watch the long form anyway ;)

Thanks again!
- Bowen

[cody chunn]

FINALLY someone "gets it"!

-cody


"yancy" wrote in message news:yancy....@rrgparchive.com...

[Frank Furhter]

Mark and you, along with the large number of other non-public faces
deserve creds big time. The volume of commitment and time you folks put
into this effort is amazing ,thank you. Now, please KISS.

[TheKorn]

Bowen Kerins <bke...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:240207c9-fc47-4c7e...@googlegroups.com:

> Ah. Maybe what we need are "quick take" strategy guides for games
> that take only a minute or two to explain.

I think that would be an excellent addition. I was playing TF last night, and was
trying what I could remember from the video, but honestly without daily access to
a machine I'm only going to be able to remember maybe six different "ideas".
After that, they start trying to bump each other out, so a "top six concepts"
would be a Godsend.

> Designers are a little stuck here: if the game doesn't
> have enough depth people lose interest, but if the game isn't simple
> enough people won't get interested to begin with. The best games
> manage this balance really well.

Agree, but I don't see this is a catch-22; I see them as reinforcing each other...
If a game is interesting along the way then I'll want to get to the deeper stuff.
If it's boring or worse (*cough*dracula*cough*) then I'll make use of the more fun
options I have to play.

> It's a good point and I will try to change the impression. Maybe we
> should make "short form" and "long form" tutorials. Also, just the
> way the work is set up, the tutorial is always at least one entire
> game, and since I'm stuck talking the whole time I'm likely to comment
> on lots of things that don't ultimately matter in playing the game.
> So, a short form tutorial could look a lot different while still
> informing. My opinion is that most of the people who would watch the
> short form will watch the long form anyway ;)

tl;dr'ing it isn't a bad thing. Maybe the happy medium is to put some text notes
beside/below/somewhere close to the video? "if nothing else, take away these
ideas" type thing?

[Gerry]

Bowen, and Mark..dont change a thing as far as the tute's go on late
model games, as their depth warrents the full deal...

Early SS... well thats a different deal....

you guys are doing an incredible job for all of us....

these vids are 100% solid entertainment and chuck full of interesting
valuable knowledge....

and the comentary is super enjoyable....

cant thank you guys enough for all the effort.....Gerry

[OTTOgd]

I love watching these tutorials.

I'm not much of a tourney player but I think it's entertaining to see how a champion breaks downs the rules and exploits them. Bowen's is a natural commentator. Also, I get to watch modes that I will likely never see playing. Also, I think it's a great overview for the purpose of weighing longevity in a home setting. One of my favorite tute's of his is the Flash Gordon.

I enjoy making gameplay videos of the pins in my collection and post them on YooToob but they lack commentary, a skillful player, and a quality recording device. But they're up.

The PAPA video collection is a fantastic quality resource and always look forward to seeing more. Thanks for making them!

Kev

[Pinball Dave]

> Do you think if you got a new game and played it for a month you could
> beat Bowen on it 2 out of 3 if he had never played one?
>
> I rest my case.
>
> -phish

It's worse than you think! If you are ever at an amature tournament /
gathering where Bowen is playing you can watch him play with one
hand! That's right, holding the other hand behind his back he will
still crush you, and you will watch in amazement. He'll give you
advice and help you be a better player. Then you will go home and
almost break a finger trying to play like that :)

[nwojedi]

Bowen Kerins;1942207 Wrote:
> If it were just about explaining the rules, the whole thing could be
> done inside of 2 minutes. The tutorials are as much, or more, about
> execution of skills and the tournament mindset. Also, I didn't exactly
> plan for that game to last that long...
>

> As for Todd's comments about EMs, there are EM tutorials and more
> coming, but I'm unclear about how interesting they would be. Say we do
> a tutorial on Monaco -- won't that be more boring? Get the ball, shoot
> the spinner. If bonus is maxed, shoot the lane. Don't shoot for the
> target except once for double bonus.
>

> There's really not much more to say than that, and the execution of
> skills won't really be that interesting. My opinion only, of course,
> and I'd love to have some specific recommendations for good games worth
> recording in the next round.
>
> Thanks for watching and keep up the opinions on what we should and
> shouldn't be trying.
> - Bowen
>

> > > New tutorial is up on the blog. Hope you all enjoy.
> > >
> > > http://papa.org/blog/
> > >
> > > Information and Pre-registration for the PAPA 15 World Championships
> > > is also available at
> > >
> > > http://papa.org/papa15/index.php
> >

> > And people wonder why pinball has lost popularity... over an hour to
> explain the
> > rules? I want to play a game, I don't want to file my taxes.
> >
> > I'm for rule depth, but only *to a point*. After that, it's no longer
> fun and is
> > more like work.
> >

> > --
> > Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on
> the web or on
> > DVD?
> >
> > http://www.webwidevideo.com/

these tutorials are awesome. Keep up the good work. Especially for
those of us who do not have these games close enough to put in any real
time on them. Helps bring us up to speed to even stand a chance in
tournament.


--
nwojedi

* C a p t a i n N e o *
Pinball Playfield restoration service at:
_www.Captainneo.com (\"http://www.captainneo.com\")__:D

[phishrace]

On May 19, 1:21 pm, yancy <ya...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> phishrace;1942504 Wrote:> You don't need to watch a tutorial or read a rulesheet to get better on
> > virtually any newer Stern. You only need to do two things:
>
> > 1. Play the game a lot.
> > 2. Shoot the flashing shots.
>
> Disagree. You need to know why and when to shoot a flashing shot, and
> perhaps more importantly, when not to.

The tutorials aren't necessary to become proficient at a game. That
was my point. We had plenty of great players around long before the
internet and tutorials came around. I watched (50-ish) Rick Stetta
absolutely destroy a Shrek today. Rick doesn't watch the tutorials and
isn't a fan of real deep strategies.

Most can't execute much is what is shown on the videos anyway. You'll
never become a great player without lots of practice (see #1 above).
If you don't practice regularly (daily), the videos will have little
affect on your game.

-phish

[phishrace]

On May 19, 1:27 pm, yancy <ya...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> No amount of
> study or practice could bring me to Bowen's level.

How do you know if you haven't tried? Bowen was going to school (full
time I believe) when he became a better player. He didn't drop out and
only play pinball for 5 years. He finished school, got married, got a
job and had a kid, just like the rest of us. If you're convinced
you'll never be as good as him, you probably won't be. I'm not
convinced, so I'll keep practicing.

-phish

[yancy]

phishrace;1943240 Wrote:
> How do you know if you haven't tried? Bowen was going to school (full
> time I believe) when he became a better player. He didn't drop out and
> only play pinball for 5 years. He finished school, got married, got a
> job and had a kid, just like the rest of us. If you're convinced you'll
> never be as good as him, you probably won't be.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think innate talent plays a
role in pinball as it does in many other activities & sports. I've been
playing for about 15 years. I'm much better than I was when I started,
but guys like Bowen and Lyman were probably already world champions 15
years in. Brian Scalabrine is never going to be Michael Jordan no matter
how hard he tries, and I'm never going to be Elwin, Kerins, or Sheats. I
do my best, but I'm a realist.

[Keith P. Johnson]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 07:44:26 -0500, "cody chunn" <cch...@comcast.net>

wrote:

>That is exactly what turned me off of modern tournaments. If you don't have
>easy access to every new game that comes out, you don't have a chance. If
>you show up for a tourney on a game(s) that you have never seen before, and
>your opponents have had glass-off access for weeks, there is NO WAY you can

>compete. It doesn't matter how good you are. You would spend a fortune just
>trying to cobble together a half-assed strategy and still be miles behind
>the others because you don't know how to manipulate the rules for maximum
>scoring. It's too much of a handicap.

I can't really agree with you here.

At the most recent Gameworks tournament, the games used were Tron,
Transformers, IM, and ACDC.

For whatever reasons, I haven't gone out and played these games very
much at all. Going in, I would guess my playtime on Tron to be around
an hour, Transformers 1-1.5 hours, IM 2-3 hours, and ACDC < 1 hour.

I wound up qualifying in a 3-way tie for 3rd and taking 2nd place
overall. I also had the highest qualifying score on ACDC by a pretty
fair margin (186M compared to 156M 2nd and 3rd place).

In my opinion there is very little strategy to speak of in Tron and
Transformers. Those games reward you for making shots and punish you
for missing. Your score will generally be much more related to
keeping the ball in play and making shots than by any real strategical
element.

There's a LITTLE strategy in IM, and that mostly involves deciding
when to go all-in for Do or Die. Other than that, the game is far
more punishing for missed shots and therefore probably even more
skewed to better players' abilities to not lose balls and/or make
shots.

ACDC is certainly the game of the 4 that has the most strategy, but I
had far more success in just playing the game and making shots than
trying to take advantage of any one single feature. I probably wasn't
as efficient as possible, but I think all you really need to know is
shooting the white and red arrows is good, and you have to complete
fire x times to get the building-up jackpot.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm not a good player or don't pick up
on rules quickly, but I can say with some certainty that I probably
had the lowest playtime on those games compared to anyone else in the
top 16 (and by a significant margin at that in all likelihood). Sure
I probably didn't go in thinking I had much of a chance, but I'd like
to think my performance basically disproves your assertion. A large
part of that is probably just what I consider to be the lack of
strategy that those games actually require. Now if you had a lineup
consisting of games like TSPP, LOTR, SM, and FG, then you'd have a
different case perhaps. But then, I wouldn't be able to argue the
counterpoint there because I know all of those games extremely well.

keith
--
Further fora you can reach me:
twitter: @pinballkeefer
EFNet: #pinball (keefer)
Google+: https://plus.google.com/115726305093739202394

[cody chunn]

Yes, I suppose I am in a time-lock with my comments. For reference, the last
tourney I competed in was on WoF, and the games prior are the ones I was
referring to. One was Simps, and a operator/player there had glass-off
access for some time before the event.

I can say without a doubt, everyone has a much better chance at defeating a
world class player on pre 1992 games.

-cody


"Keith P. Johnson" wrote in message
news:oorjr7tnbmo2smbbv...@4ax.com...

[Frank Furhter]

Because Bowen just keeps getting better and better?