Need Tech help re: Fire! pin

[Wesley Cowan]

The problems I'm having are:

1. Left ramp periodically goes up and down randomly when it shouldn't
do that. I don't see any broken wires or diodes reversed.

2. Last night a new problem started. After locking two balls and
making a shot it should give a 3 ball multi-ball with the two locked
balls and one in the trough. Instead the third ball was staying in
the trough and after awhile it would eject the two locked balls giving
only a two ball multi ball. The third ball remains in the trough.

I'd appreciate suggestions in searching out fixes for these problems.
Thanks!

[Wesley Cowan]

Just checked by taking each fuse out and all of them test as working.

Did a switch test and 56, 55, 26, and 59 are coming up as errors.
Wondering if I have a short somewhere?

[wayout440]

wesleycowan;2075512 Wrote:

> On May 22, 9:02*am, Wesley Cowan <wkco... (AT) juno (DOT) com> wrote:
> > The problems I'm having are:
> >

> > 1. *Left ramp periodically goes up and down randomly when it
> shouldn't
> > do that. *I don't see any broken wires or diodes reversed.
> >
> > 2. *Last night a new problem started. *After locking two balls and

> > making a shot it should give a 3 ball multi-ball with the two locked

> > balls and one in the trough. *Instead the third ball was staying in

> > the trough and after awhile it would eject the two locked balls
> giving

> > only a two ball multi ball. *The third ball remains in the trough.

> >
> > I'd appreciate suggestions in searching out fixes for these problems.
> > Thanks!
>
> Just checked by taking each fuse out and all of them test as working.
>
> Did a switch test and 56, 55, 26, and 59 are coming up as errors.
> Wondering if I have a short somewhere?

It can be other things besides a short. Go to switch edge test and
operate the switches by hand first.


If a switch does not work, check these things:

On the top side of the playfield, make sure the bad switch contacts
haven't been bashed together by an errant air pinball.
If it's a micro-switch, check the actuator arm. Make sure it's
adjusted properly. Listen for the micro-switch's "click" when
activating. No click usually means the switch is mis-adjusted or
broken.
Check that the wires going to the switch are soldered well, and
haven't fallen off.
Check the continuity (using your DMM's continuity setting) of the
wire between this switch and another working switch in the same column
(white wire) or row (green wire).
If it's a blade or leaf style switch, check the contacts for proper
closure. Clean the switch contacts with a business card (do NOT use a
file as the contacts are gold plated). Put the card between the
contacts, close the contacts, and pull the card through the contacts.
This is all that is needed to clean gold plated switch contacts.
Check the switch to make sure it works. Use your DMM's continuity
setting, and put one lead on the "common" lug (the lug to which the
banded end of the diode connects) of the switch. Put the other lead on
the green (normally open) switch lug. Your meter should only beep when
the switch is activated, and not beep when the switch is de-activated.
Move the DMM's lead from the green to the white wire (normally closed)
switch lug. Your meter should beep when the switch is de-activated, and
NOT beep when activated.
Check the diode on the switch. Make sure the diode is connected
properly, and is working (see below).
Check other switches in that switch's row or column. Two 4041 chips
control rows, and 2N3904 transistors and 74LS244 at U40 control columns.
Both rows and columns are controlled by a 6821 PIA at U38.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm


--
wayout440
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Wesley Cowan]

> Both rows and columns are controlled by a 6821 PIA at U38.http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index3.htm

>
> --
> wayout440
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Have checked all of the switches as suggested including in switch edge
test, the microswitches, actuators arms etc. Found a few wires that
appeared to need to be resoldered and no longer getting errors in the
switch test. But it still doesn't properly go into multi ball mode.
Not sure what else to try.

[Gott Lieb?]

Try this. Play a normal game. As soon as you lock two balls, throw
the game into switch level test. What switches show as being closed?
I have a hunch of what the problem is, but try this first.

Jim

[Wesley Cowan]

Did what Gott Lieb? suggested and it added Switch 50 (Left kickbig
bottom) and 53 (right lockup bottom) as errors.

[Gott Lieb?]

No ball trough number (1 or 3 - can't remember if WMS calls the one
closest to the shooter lane the lowest or highest number) showing up
in that test?

Jim

[Wesley Cowan]

54 Ball Trough #3 left
56 Ball trough #1 right
55 Ball Trough #2 mid
59 Center Down Ramp
26 Fire Plug

These are the current switch errors showing up in sw test mode.

[Wesley Cowan]

Also adds the following in doing the test Gott Lieb? suggested

53 right lockup (bottom)
50 Left Kickbig (bottom)

[TheKorn]

Wesley Cowan <wkc...@juno.com> wrote in news:edb63e51-e0db-4c16-a9a7-3ae4c4e80f43
@b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

>> > Did what Gott Lieb? suggested and it added Switch 50 �(Left kickbig
>> > bottom) and 53 (right lockup bottom) as errors.
> 54 Ball Trough #3 left
> 56 Ball trough #1 right
> 55 Ball Trough #2 mid

Well stop right there. The game has flagged every switch in the trough as bad.
That'll confuse the living hell out of the game!

Take out all the balls, then put it in switch level test. Is the game reading any
of the trough switches? If yes, then that's bad.

Then throw three balls into the trough. (You'll have to advance them over by
hand.) Is the game reading the balls in the trough now? If not, then THAT'S bad.

Get your trough straightened out first and foremost, otherwise you'll be a dog
chasing its tail.

--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or
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[TheKorn]

TheKorn <The...@TheKorn.Net> wrote in
news:XnsA1C98EF60...@69.16.185.252:

> Wesley Cowan <wkc...@juno.com> wrote in
> news:edb63e51-e0db-4c16-a9a7-3ae4c4e80f43
> @b2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> > Did what Gott Lieb? suggested and it added Switch 50 �(Left
>>> > kickbig bottom) and 53 (right lockup bottom) as errors.
>> 54 Ball Trough #3 left
>> 56 Ball trough #1 right
>> 55 Ball Trough #2 mid
>
> Well stop right there. The game has flagged every switch in the
> trough as bad. That'll confuse the living hell out of the game!
>
> Take out all the balls, then put it in switch level test. Is the game
> reading any of the trough switches? If yes, then that's bad.
>
> Then throw three balls into the trough. (You'll have to advance them
> over by hand.) Is the game reading the balls in the trough now? If
> not, then THAT'S bad.
>
> Get your trough straightened out first and foremost, otherwise you'll
> be a dog chasing its tail.

Of course, looking at the switch matrix, most of your switch errors are in the
same column. I suspect you have a wire off of one of your switches in column 7.
Check 'em ALL.

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[Gott Lieb?]

Just to clarify, these are not switch errors. In switch level mode,
the game is telling what switches it sees closed. As the Korn
mentioned, the game should not be showing 3 of the trough switches as
closed when only one ball is in the trough.

Jim

[Wesley Cowan]

Thanks for the clarification Gott Lieb?.

Did what The Korn suggested and with balls out of the trough I get #59
Center Ramp down.
Balls out of trough #59 and #10 Outhole.

Went over every wire and switch then asked my wife to help as
sometimes she sees things I don't. She found some suspicious looking
wires on a trough switch and one or two other where she thought it
worth it to resolder a bit. I'm going now to see what it does.

[Gott Lieb?]

If all of the balls are out of the game, you should not see the
outhole switch closed.

Jim

[Gott Lieb?]

Also, what switches do you see in switch level test with all the balls
in the trough? Finally, take the two balls, and put each one in the
left and right locks and leave the last in the trough. What switches
does it state are closed now?

Jim

[wayout440]

wesleycowan;2075594 Wrote:
> On May 22, 10:27*am, wayout440 <wayout... (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> wrote:[color=blue]

> > wesleycowan;2075512 Wrote:
>
> Have checked all of the switches as suggested including in switch edge
> test, the microswitches, actuators arms etc. Found a few wires that
> appeared to need to be resoldered and no longer getting errors in the
> switch test. But it still doesn't properly go into multi ball mode.
> Not sure what else to try.

This is why I backed out of the conversation and let Gott Lieb take take
over. Here you say you were no longer getting errors in switch test.

[Wesley Cowan]

I went back and did the switch edge test and found the left under ramp
switch was occasionally (about 1 time out of 10) not working.
Adjusted it and now it's working all the time. Also found that switch
27 on the left horseshoe rarely works. I haven't been able to fix
it. Tried very late last night and will try again today.

[Wesley Cowan]

Okay thanks I'll look into that further.

[Wesley Cowan]

Thanks for clarifying!

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[wayout440]

wesleycowan;2076138 Wrote:

> On May 24, 5:53*am, wayout440 <wayout... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > wesleycowan;2075594 Wrote:
> >
> > > On May 22, 10:27*am, wayout440 <wayout... (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> > > wrote:[color=7:08 PM 10/21/2009]

> > > > wesleycowan;2075512 Wrote:
> >
> > > Have checked all of the switches as suggested including in switch
> edge

> > > test, the microswitches, actuators arms etc. *Found a few wires

> that
> > > appeared to need to be resoldered and no longer getting errors in
> the

> > > switch test. *But it still doesn't properly go into multi ball

> mode.
> > > Not sure what else to try.
> >
> > This is why I backed out of the conversation and let Gott Lieb take
> take

> > over. * Here you say you were no longer getting errors in switch
> test.
> >
> > --
> > wayout440
> > This USENET post sent from *http://rgparchive.com

>
> I went back and did the switch edge test and found the left under ramp
> switch was occasionally (about 1 time out of 10) not working.
> Adjusted it and now it's working all the time. Also found that switch
> 27 on the left horseshoe rarely works. I haven't been able to fix
> it. Tried very late last night and will try again today.

Best of luck to you, those intermittent problems can be a real pain.
Took me quite awhile to get one solved on my F-14. I could play a dozen
games in a row and then the wife would walk up and get a tilt from a
phantom switch error. This went on for weeks. I couldn't find it, tried
replacing diodes. Fine again for weeks then out of nowhere another
phantom tilt. Eventually found a "T" target was shorting. Then had to
pull the switch out and found the switch itself was shorting somehow in
it's base Riveted construction, all I could do was replace it.

[stephe...@gmail.com]

Soldered and checked everything in the outhole but noticed no differences.

[Wesley Cowan]

Some things are better after going over the game many times and
following advice given on this thread. The game seems to now play
multi-ball correctly. I can still hear the solenoid trying to move
the left up/down ramp at what seems like random times.
Tried to fix the left horseshoe switch but mine seems worn out and
none of the fixes I've tried have lasted past a few games and it
rarely works. I can't seem to find any parts dealers that sell that
specific switch which is SW-1A-171. If anyone has one in decent
shape, I'd been willing to buy one. Sometimes the ladder ramp in the
middle that raises up doesn't always go up high enough making the shot
impossible to engage. Sigh!

[Gott Lieb?]

The left horseshoe switch probably just needs adjusted. I just worked
on two Fires back to back about a month ago. Both had other issues,
but both needed the horseshoe switches adjusted. The right wasn't too
bad, but the left one was a PITA to get right on both. It's not the
common WMS switch used there. At least the part which activates the
switch. There is a copper leaf on the actuating arm coming from the
PF. Then, a piece of thin plastic, then the switch. It's very easy
to adjust the wrong blade incorrectly. If you can get someone to
balance the backboard of the PF on the pivot forks of the cab,
(raising the PF up, and putting this switch closer to eye level) you
could probably adjust it much easier. Just make sure you have someone
to hold the PF. It is not made to sit like this and is very unsteady.

*IF* your multi-ball problem comes back, take a look at the "hooked"
arm which feeds the ball into the shooter lane. I have seen these get
gummed up to the point where they work for the 1st and 2nd ball, but
stick up by the time the 3rd ball is supposed to be served. This
keeps the ball from being served and possibly the last switch in the
trough from being closed. WMS recommends to lubricate the axis of
this part, but I doubt that anyone did or does. Just take the unit
apart, clean the pivot point well with ISO alcohol, and put some
Teflon lube on it.

Jim

[Wesley Cowan]

Thanks for all of the good info and suggestions.