Wayne Gillard, The Pinball Factory, & sales@mrpinball.com.au
greatw...@hotmail.com
brutal with the non stop threats from WMS lawyers coming after me, &
that you want to ruin me personally.
As I work towards WMS approval for new backglass through a license
agreement with Illinois Pin Ball. I understand you don't want any
business dealings with myself & you are more than happy to produce
your own products. To license or contract out others for parts
productions, as per your agreement with WMS.
I would expect you to honor the same with Illinois Pin Ball & WMS, as
to who they allow for parts productions.
Jazman
Enough already John. Why continue to bring this here?!?!
Yes - Wayne is a dick.
Yes - Wayne is a pain in the ass.
We all know this. Keep your business just that... your business.
Jaz
pinhead72
with him.
Jess
Juan_Fingers
Why not post it here it is a free country from where I am sitting.
And last time I checked this is pinball realated not some stupid off
topic post about google or something stupid. I'm sure Wayne deletes
alot of his personal emails, this way Wayne WILL see the thread
guaranteed!!
Lewis
bucketman
I don't get it. We finally start to get posts related to pinball and
you discourage it. You should go after the non-pinball OT bullshit
posts that have recently kept me and others away from this group.
Pinster68
I'm a newbie and would really hope someone could sum-up what all this
BS is about. I don't know squat about it but it keeps coming up. Can
someone in ten-bullet-items or less give the rest of us a refresher?
Thanks,
Brian
"Pinster68"
Lloyd Olson
and Gene ( Illinois Pinball ). Both parties have made parts. Both parties go
after enforcing their license rights. Williams does too. And some people
have made stuff not protected by anything, or with wayne of Gene's blessing.
Etc. Etc.
That about sums things up. LTG :)
"Pinster68" <carsc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:35981cf3-a14f-4c56...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
twilightzonepinball
Can you block his email?
-Tom
http://home.myfairpoint.net/vze8f4tt/tomstwilightzonepinballmachineaccessories/index.html
Pinster68
> Williams closed their pinball division. They sold license rights to wayne
> and Gene ( Illinois Pinball ). Both parties have made parts. Both parties go
> after enforcing their license rights. Williams does too. And some people
> have made stuff not protected by anything, or with wayne of Gene's blessing.
> Etc. Etc.
>
> That about sums things up. LTG :)
>
>
> news:35981cf3-a14f-4c56...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm a newbie and would really hope someone could sum-up what all this
> BS is about. I don't know squat about it but it keeps coming up. Can
> someone in ten-bullet-items or less give the rest of us a refresher?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> "Pinster68"
Thanks. So Wayne and Gene have the same rights, or they purchased
separate "pieces" of the rights? I presume the latter is correct, and
it's why someone mentioned that a MM can't be produced as some of the
key technologies are owned by Gene and not Wayne.... (?)
And to boot, they don't get along.
This has the makings of a reality show. People love drama, fight to
the death BS.
Brian
"Pinster68"
Lloyd Olson
who has seen the paperwork, which might need an attorney to deciphere
anyway. So they may have similar rights, and may have different.
Neither one is what one would refer to as a people person. Both have had
conflicts with many. So it is possible they don't get along. LTG :)
"Pinster68" <carsc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f45e4bcd-510d-428f...@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
appetite4pinball
wrote:
Here's the step by step for Hotmail users:
http://email.about.com/od/windowslivehotmailtips/ss/Block_Sender_by_Email_Hotmail.htm
brainsnap
> Williams closed their pinball division. They sold license rights to wayne
> and Gene ( Illinois Pinball ). Both parties have made parts. Both parties go
> after enforcing their license rights. Williams does too. And some people
> have made stuff not protected by anything, or with wayne of Gene's blessing.
> Etc. Etc.
>
> That about sums things up. LTG :)
>
>
> news:35981cf3-a14f-4c56...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm a newbie and would really hope someone could sum-up what all this
> BS is about. I don't know squat about it but it keeps coming up. Can
> someone in ten-bullet-items or less give the rest of us a refresher?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> "Pinster68"
just use the 'Search This Group' for these words Gillard, Wayne, TPF,
The Pinball Factory, MM remakes , MM debarcle, rip off , threats,
ficticious lawyers and then get yourself a few free days to read about
the gentleman that 'controls your newly found hobby'
As a newbie you OWE IT TO YOURESLF to get educated FAST about who NOT
to deal with.
Amigoid
>
> - Show quoted text -
And also who you "Can" deal with.
John Greatwich: Good guy. Bought a populated playfield from him. He
is working on trying to find ways to reproduce backglasses and
playfields I think.
Gene: Good guy. Stuck with it and completed Big Bang Bar at a loss.
Has reproduced several playfields. Keeps his word. Met him personally
at RMPS a few years ago.
Wayne: Everything I know of him I have learned second hand. But he
allegedly took in a lot of preorders for MM pinball machines, then
never delivered. Aggressively protects his licenses, but beyond that I
don't know very much that he has done for the hobby other that squash
anyone that has tried to reproduce parts.
That's all IMO, and my perception of reality is not always accurate so
if I am way off base I apologise. I would wish that Wayne and Gene
would try to find ways to co-opt those that are working to make badly
needed reproductions and seek out more Win-Wins. I assume the only
time Gene gets on someone about licensing is when whatever is being
reproduced directly competes with his own products. If thats the case
Gene is perfectly justified, and the customer is better off with
Gene's products, because what I have seen has always been professional
quality.
LoveF2K
> and Gene ( Illinois Pinball ). Both parties have made parts. Both parties go
> after enforcing their license rights. Williams does too. And some people
> have made stuff not protected by anything, or with wayne of Gene's blessing.
> Etc. Etc.
>
> That about sums things up. LTG :)
>
>
> news:35981cf3-a14f-4c56...@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm a newbie and would really hope someone could sum-up what all this
> BS is about. I don't know squat about it but it keeps coming up. Can
> someone in ten-bullet-items or less give the rest of us a refresher?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> "Pinster68"
Does Wayne own right to Bally?
Ballypinball
He Drags my name into every email he posts
Maybe the Drunk Bit Hit Home?
jardine
The funny thing is that here in oz, i am on a forum that daily we are
referring people AWAY from his buisness. We hope that in 12 months
that this clown will have no customers and be forced to either shut
the doors (best case senario), or change the way he speaks to people.
I have an email where he calls a customer a c@nt!!!
Calling people names like drunk just shines badly on this fool and
shows how immature he is and one day, when people stop buying from him
he will regret it, and we'll all be laughing our heads off.
Can't wait to see you dead and buried Wayne (in a business sense).
greatw...@hotmail.com
You have hit an all time low with your emails. I love my beer & I am
not a drunk. Your comments about trying to cripple me financially is
really a low class threat. I won't post your latest threats here & you
seem to forget that you sent an email saying not to email any of your
titles above over a year ago.
I hope someone at WMS takes notice of your actions to scare people
from dealing with Illinois Pin Ball. With all your threatening emails
if people want to go with them for licensing product. You probably
pissed of a number of beer loving people, Canadians & Australians who
love their beer. Americans love their beer also which I drink equally
to Canadian beer.
Friday I will post the test samples of Flash Gordon with direct ink &
screened uv ink for white & black. Hopefully that finally gets WMS
approval & I finally help out with new glass for people in need
through a license with Illinois Pin Ball. Glad there is another horse
in the race for Williams & Bally product.
metallik
> not a drunk. Your comments about trying to cripple me financially is
> really a low class threat. I won't post your latest threats here & you
> seem to forget that you sent an email saying not to email any of your
John, just shitcan his emails. Write an inbox rule to automatically
delete them... problem solved. Any 'real' legal action will come via
certified snailmail and we know he's just full of shit, so just stop
reading his drivel. If he tries to evade your filters or continues to
harass you, complain to his hosting company:
http://www.hostingbay.com.au/newsite/html/contact.html, and then
complain to WMS's legal dept.
freeplayer
> Both parties made seperate deals with Williams. And I don't know of anyone
> who has seen the paperwork, which might need an attorney to deciphere
> anyway. So they may have similar rights, and may have different.
>
> Neither one is what one would refer to as a people person. Both have had
> conflicts with many. So it is possible they don't get along. LTG :)
>
>
> news:f45e4bcd-510d-428f...@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Thanks. So Wayne and Gene have the same rights, or they purchased
> separate "pieces" of the rights? I presume the latter is correct, and
> it's why someone mentioned that a MM can't be produced as some of the
> key technologies are owned by Gene and not Wayne.... (?)
>
> And to boot, they don't get along.
>
> This has the makings of a reality show. People love drama, fight to
> the death BS.
>
> Brian
> "Pinster68"
Gene from IPB still owns the rights to some 21 pinball tooling
patents, some key to the originality of the MM title.
It's no big secret that Wayne and Gene are not the best of friends,
pure common sense dictates that taking a deposit from a customer
without a concrete production plan is not in good faith. Is it a
Pinball Ponzi scheme? Does Wayne have the ability to return every
single deposit all at once? What recourse does one have with an
overseas company if the money is not refunded? What goes on inside
of
The Pinball Factory? Has anyone ever been invited into The Pinball
Factory for a tour? I hope we all see a new MM someday.
I hope we don't see an ending like Bernie Madoff, not a single stock
trade produced on three floors of trading or in the case of The
Pinball
Factory not a single pin produced including Crocodile Hunter.
All points to ponder until I'm proven wrong. Wayne may have some
legitimate reasons why MM reproduction has hit a stone wall, but
whats the reason for not producing Crocodile Hunter, bottomline is
he has not built a single pin title......Gene at least produced BBB,
Big Bang Bar, lost money, licked his wounds, smiles as he attends
most of the Pinball shows, can't recall ever seeing Wayne at a pinball
show
representing his company.
mikepin
2 and show people how to do it right. Work with people to make
things not always against them. A zillion more parts could be
made if these 2 would play well with others. They both have on
occasions worked with people but generally the deals go to shit
quickly. There is great talent on this group. Lets get together and
form RGP pinball INC... They both have spent more effort on
stopping people from making parts than they have on making them ...
Mike pacak Lets do it before there is nothing left !!
Ballypinball
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't have a problem with IPB, They cannot Sublicense you to do
anything.
Also they don't own the rights to Flash Gordon, so if they do somehow
approve this project, that would leave IPB, You and WMS in legal
litigation with the Flash Gordon Rights owners.
Derek at Universal Studios was shocked to see your Display Panels and
are watching in Interest, as they have not been submitted to Universal
Licensing or WMS from IPB for any approval.
The quality of your products will never make WMS Approval.
miracleman
decals without getting legal permission from Elvira herself?
Or was it IPB who actually had the rights?
Or both?
Please enlighten us Mr. Businessman...
Ballypinball
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sure
We submitted the art to williams for approval, they approved them
we made them, then later were advised IPB had a license with Elvira,
Williams only licensed her image and voice for scared Stiff and
approved the Cabinet art for scared Stiff a registered Trademark to
Williams.
IPBs Lawyer claimed US trademark Infringement on Elvira and mistress
of the dark that appeared on the sideart, so we shipped all the
sideart to IPB.
If Williams had not approved the Sideart we would never of made it.
It cost us $10,000 and a waste of sideart.
Eric A.
wrote:
Man I wish I had the courage to quit the 9-5 and do pinball full time!
Eric A.
313-268-0541
Kyle Wren
freeplayer says...
>
>Gene from IPB still owns the rights to some 21 pinball tooling
>patents, some key to the originality of the MM title.
>It's no big secret that Wayne and Gene are not the best of friends,
>pure common sense dictates that taking a deposit from a customer
>without a concrete production plan is not in good faith. Is it a
>Pinball Ponzi scheme? Does Wayne have the ability to return every
>single deposit all at once? What recourse does one have with an
>overseas company if the money is not refunded? What goes on inside
>of
>The Pinball Factory? Has anyone ever been invited into The Pinball
>Factory for a tour? I hope we all see a new MM someday.
>
>I hope we don't see an ending like Bernie Madoff, not a single stock
>trade produced on three floors of trading or in the case of The
>Pinball
>Factory not a single pin produced including Crocodile Hunter.
>All points to ponder until I'm proven wrong. Wayne may have some
>legitimate reasons why MM reproduction has hit a stone wall, but
>whats the reason for not producing Crocodile Hunter, bottomline is
>he has not built a single pin title......Gene at least produced BBB,
>Big Bang Bar, lost money, licked his wounds, smiles as he attends
>most of the Pinball shows, can't recall ever seeing Wayne at a pinball
>show
>representing his company.
I was going to post pretty much exactly this yesterday, thank you for saving me
the time (and saying it better than I could). Hearing the truth of this project
in the last couple of months, that basically it is no "accident" that the order
form is still posted on the pinball.com home page because Wayne is still willing
to take deposit money on this failed project. How disgusting can this get?
Obviously people are free to do and believe what they want, and it goes without
saying that anyone that frequents the shows or this newsgroup would know better,
but as we have learned he is still getting the uninformed masses to believe in
this failed project and send him new funds.
If he really has the money available to refund everyone you would think that he
would have by now. Either the asset of the fund of money is benefiting his
business in some way, or he doesn't have all the money, either way he is
replacing the old guard that is falling out with new blood willing to believe
the lie that he is still trying to build these games.
I know several people have stated on here that they are still willing to deal
with Wayne on his other projects and look past this debacle. All I can say, is
having a pinball machine with perfect cabinet decals really worth it?
--
Kyle Wren - CARGPB #27
Kyle Wren
jardine says...
>
>On Mar 4, 1:53=A0pm, Ballypinball <sa...@mrpinball.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mar 4, 3:17=A0am, "greatwichj...@hotmail.com"
This brings up a very good point. At one point in these exchanges the whole
thing got spun to be an "everyone else" against Australia thing. Nothing can be
further from the truth. I met some guys from Australia a couple of years ago at
Expo and I can say that not only were they some of the nicest folks at the show,
they were highly embarrassed to be sharing a country with Wayne.
jackofdiamonds
> In article <8a39a2df-fdba-4106-aec9-5e6f1479c...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
No one has asked this question:Who still has a deposit on file with
Wayne for MM?And if so do you have "sucker" tattoed on your forehead?
If you haven't asked for your money back yet,I would suggest you
do.From what I've read here Wayne has refunded money to whomever
asked.As far as "willing to deal with Wayne"on parts/decals whatever,I
wouldn't hesitate to do buisness with The Pinball Factory if they
stocked something I needed.Scott
Kyle Wren
jackofdiamonds says...
>
>On Mar 4, 9:05=A0am, Kyle Wren <kylewrenT...@cinci.rrOUT.com> wrote:
>> In article <8a39a2df-fdba-4106-aec9-5e6f1479c...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> freeplayer says...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Gene from IPB still owns the rights to some 21 pinball tooling
>> >patents, some key to the originality of the MM title.
>> >It's no big secret that Wayne and Gene are not the best of friends,
>> >pure common sense dictates that taking a deposit from a customer
>> >Pinball Ponzi scheme? Does Wayne have the ability to return every
>> >single deposit all at once? What recourse does one have with an
>> >of
>> >The Pinball Factory? =A0Has anyone ever been invited into The Pinball
>> >Factory for a tour? =A0I hope we all see a new MM someday.
>>
>> >I hope we don't see an ending like Bernie Madoff, not a single stock
>> >trade produced on three floors of trading or in the case of The
>> >Pinball
>> >Factory not a single pin produced including Crocodile Hunter.
>> >legitimate reasons why MM reproduction has hit a stone wall, but
>> >whats the reason for not producing Crocodile Hunter, bottomline is
>> >he has not built a single pin title......Gene at least produced BBB,
>> >Big Bang Bar, lost money, licked his wounds, smiles as he attends
>> >most of the Pinball shows, can't recall ever seeing Wayne at a pinball
>> >show
>> >representing his company.
>>
>ing me
>> the time (and saying it better than I could). Hearing the truth of this p=
>roject
>> in the last couple of months, that basically it is no "accident" that the=
> order
>> form is still posted on the pinball.com home page because Wayne is still =
>willing
>> to take deposit money on this failed project. How disgusting can this get=
>?
>> Obviously people are free to do and believe what they want, and it goes w=
>ithout
>> saying that anyone that frequents the shows or this newsgroup would know =
>better,
>> but as we have learned he is still getting the uninformed masses to belie=
>ve in
>> this failed project and send him new funds.
>>
>hat he
>> would have by now. Either the asset of the fund of money is benefiting hi=
>s
>> business in some way, or he doesn't have all the money, either way he is
>ieve
>> the lie that he is still trying to build these games.
>>
>deal
>> with Wayne on his other projects and look past this debacle. All I can sa=
>y, is
>> having a pinball machine with perfect cabinet decals really worth it?
>>
>> --
>> Kyle Wren - CARGPB #27
>
>No one has asked this question:Who still has a deposit on file with
>Wayne for MM?And if so do you have "sucker" tattoed on your forehead?
>If you haven't asked for your money back yet,I would suggest you
>do.From what I've read here Wayne has refunded money to whomever
>asked.As far as "willing to deal with Wayne"on parts/decals whatever,I
>wouldn't hesitate to do buisness with The Pinball Factory if they
>stocked something I needed.Scott
I'm not meaning to pick on you Scott, but this post is exactly what I'm talking
about. You infer (and I agree) that at *some* point in time the opportunity to
get your refund back from Wayne on the remake project will have passed, so it
would be prudent to ask for it now, before it's too late. My point is I'm not
willing to separate the "remake project Wayne" from "spare parts Wayne" since
they really are one in the same, and the exact same company no less.
Just because you, I, and everyone else on RGP is smart enough not to send him
$2500 for a game doesn't make it right that he is still bilking that money out
of the unsuspecting and uninformed. Plenty of folks are seemingly able to
reproduce and sell pinball parts without doing stuff like this, why can't Wayne?
I don't care that he couldn't make the games. It was too big of a project, and
too costly, and he didn't have all the rights, and the "big bad people" have
stopped him from doing it. Whatever. Just refund the money and be done with it
already.
jackofdiamonds
> In article <7da719c2-d495-473a-aa72-3a542dfa7...@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Kyle you're absolutely right.It is wrong to take money from a customer
when you have no plans to make good on your promise.But like I said in
my post,from what I've read here,on this group,is that anyone who has
asked for a refund has gotten it.So I guess the question is:Has anyone
requested their money back and not gotten it?With that said,if nothing
is gonna get made,the pre-order page on TPF website should go.Scott
dothedoo
<greatwichj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I won't post your latest threats here...
<snip>
Why not? I would. Just leave out all the rest of the drama and only
post the emails.
Bill Stahly
greatw...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Seems like everyone (not Wayne) knows Flash Gordon that I am doing are
test samples to show my process of doing color with color span &
screening uv ink for white & blocking layer. No one from Universal,
WMS, or other has contacted me about doing a test! These are not for
sale! The art was done by a CPR artist, if it moves forward with
approval a CPR production, with license between TPF & CPR. The test
glass is to be shown to CPR before going to the USA. It might be a
tool to pre see finished results for 1 glass before doing their
screens.
Keith Johnson
> Gene from IPB still owns the rights to some 21 pinball tooling
> patents, some key to the originality of the MM title.
> It's no big secret that Wayne and Gene are not the best of friends,
> pure common sense dictates that taking a deposit from a customer
> without a concrete production plan is not in good faith. Is it a
> Pinball Ponzi scheme? Does Wayne have the ability to return every
> single deposit all at once? What recourse does one have with an
> overseas company if the money is not refunded? What goes on inside
> of
> The Pinball Factory? Has anyone ever been invited into The Pinball
> Factory for a tour? I hope we all see a new MM someday.
To be honest, I've always been fascinated with this whole situation
between Wayne and Gene. Wayne has the rights to some patents, Gene
has the rights to others... I'll never figure out why Gene chooses to
upkeep some of his patents and not others though.
A quick story. A couple years ago I was really interested in using
Cactus Canyon-like drop targets, which of course was patented by
Williams (if you don't know, CC uses single-coil controlled drop
targets, a really clever design in an application that usually
requires 2 coils). Some research showed that the drops belonged to
Gene, which I found odd at the time since Wayne wanted to remake CCs.
However, as it turned out, there was an upkeep payment owed like
within 2 months of when I looked it up (this was 2007 IIRC).
So here I am looking at a really lulzy situation that could possibly
be played out. I could inform Gene that if he paid the upkeep on his
patent, Wayne would be totally screwed, because I don't know how you
make CC without those drop targets. I'm sure that we could've talked
Gene into letting us use them for that little piece of information,
because Gary and Gene seemed to have a cordial relationship. But I
have no love for either of these guys - I was involved personally in a
deal that went south with Gene so I'll never have anything to do with
him ever, and Wayne is Wayne. However, even though Wayne's tried to
call me out a couple times in the past (since let's face it, I'm
basically the only person from Stern that really had a presence here)
and of course was a giant ass to Stern in general, in all seriousness
he's never personally screwed me over or anything. So, Wayne won that
little battle in my mind, the CC drop patent is totally void now, and
a little more IP is free in the world.
But it does show, to me at least, Gene certainly seems to have little
to no understanding of the value of some of the things he actually
owns.
keith
Kyle Wren
jackofdiamonds says...
>
>On Mar 4, 10:52=A0am, Kyle Wren <kylewrenT...@cinci.rrOUT.com> wrote:
>> In article <7da719c2-d495-473a-aa72-3a542dfa7...@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> jackofdiamonds says...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Mar 4, 9:05=3DA0am, Kyle Wren <kylewrenT...@cinci.rrOUT.com> wrote:
>> >> In article <8a39a2df-fdba-4106-aec9-5e6f1479c...@q21g2000yqm.googlegro=
>ups=3D
>> >.com>,
>> >> freeplayer says...
>>
>> >> >Gene from IPB still owns the rights to some 21 pinball tooling
>> >> >patents, some key to the originality of the MM title.
>> >> >It's no big secret that Wayne and Gene are not the best of friends,
>> >> >pure common sense dictates that taking a deposit from a customer
>> >> >Pinball Ponzi scheme? Does Wayne have the ability to return every
>> >> >single deposit all at once? What recourse does one have with an
>de
>> >> >of
>> >> >The Pinball Factory? =3DA0Has anyone ever been invited into The Pinba=
>ll
>> >> >Factory for a tour? =3DA0I hope we all see a new MM someday.
>>
>> >> >I hope we don't see an ending like Bernie Madoff, not a single stock
>> >> >trade produced on three floors of trading or in the case of The
>> >> >Pinball
>> >> >Factory not a single pin produced including Crocodile Hunter.
>> >> >legitimate reasons why MM reproduction has hit a stone wall, but
>> >> >whats the reason for not producing Crocodile Hunter, bottomline is
>> >> >he has not built a single pin title......Gene at least produced BBB,
>> >> >Big Bang Bar, lost money, licked his wounds, smiles as he attends
>l
>> >> >show
>> >> >representing his company.
>>
>sav=3D
>> >ing me
>> >> the time (and saying it better than I could). Hearing the truth of thi=
>s p=3D
>> >roject
>> >> in the last couple of months, that basically it is no "accident" that =
>the=3D
>> > order
>> >> form is still posted on the pinball.com home page because Wayne is sti=
>ll =3D
>> >willing
>> >> to take deposit money on this failed project. How disgusting can this =
>get=3D
>> >?
>> >> Obviously people are free to do and believe what they want, and it goe=
>s w=3D
>> >ithout
>> >> saying that anyone that frequents the shows or this newsgroup would kn=
>ow =3D
>> >better,
>> >> but as we have learned he is still getting the uninformed masses to be=
>lie=3D
>> >ve in
>> >> this failed project and send him new funds.
>>
>k t=3D
>> >hat he
>> >> would have by now. Either the asset of the fund of money is benefiting=
> hi=3D
>> >s
>> >> business in some way, or he doesn't have all the money, either way he =
>is
>> >> replacing the old guard that is falling out with new blood willing to =
>bel=3D
>> >ieve
>> >> the lie that he is still trying to build these games.
>>
>to =3D
>> >deal
>> >> with Wayne on his other projects and look past this debacle. All I can=
> sa=3D
>> >y, is
>> >> having a pinball machine with perfect cabinet decals really worth it?
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Kyle Wren - CARGPB #27
>>
>> >No one has asked this question:Who still has a deposit on file with
>> >Wayne for MM?And if so do you have "sucker" tattoed on your forehead?
>> >If you haven't asked for your money back yet,I would suggest you
>> >do.From what I've read here Wayne has refunded money to whomever
>> >asked.As far as "willing to deal with Wayne"on parts/decals whatever,I
>> >wouldn't hesitate to do buisness with The Pinball Factory if they
>> >stocked something I needed.Scott
>>
>alking
>> about. You infer (and I agree) that at *some* point in time the opportuni=
>ty to
>> get your refund back from Wayne on the remake project will have passed, s=
>o it
>> would be prudent to ask for it now, before it's too late. My point is I'm=
> not
>> willing to separate the "remake project Wayne" from "spare parts Wayne" s=
>ince
>> they really are one in the same, and the exact same company no less.
>>
> him
>> $2500 for a game doesn't make it right that he is still bilking that mone=
>y out
>> of the unsuspecting and uninformed. Plenty of folks are seemingly able to
> Wayne?
>> I don't care that he couldn't make the games. It was too big of a project=
>, and
>> too costly, and he didn't have all the rights, and the "big bad people" h=
>ave
>> stopped him from doing it. Whatever. Just refund the money and be done wi=
>th it
>> already.
>>
>> --
>> Kyle Wren - CARGPB #27
>
>Kyle you're absolutely right.It is wrong to take money from a customer
>when you have no plans to make good on your promise.But like I said in
>my post,from what I've read here,on this group,is that anyone who has
>asked for a refund has gotten it.So I guess the question is:Has anyone
>requested their money back and not gotten it?With that said,if nothing
>is gonna get made,the pre-order page on TPF website should go.Scott
In fairness to Wayne, every report we have heard of says that everyone that has
asked for a refund has gotten it. I have heard that refund requests in the past
6 months have taken longer than in the past, but the money has still arrived.
Eventually.
My beef revolves around the continued solicitation for new funds via his web
site. For a while I had just considered the form still being on there as a way
to spread the refunds out by still having the appearance of doing the project,
that way the disgruntled orderers would only come knocking over a period of
time. But then to hear that he is still accepting orders for this debacle, when
he himself has said that taking pre-order money was a mistake to begin with.
That seems to cross the line from "failed project" to almost criminal.
And here is the real teller in this situation: If Wayne were really supporting a
scam (versus building actual games), what would be his reaction to posts like
these? He can't claim he hasn't seen them because he has already responded to
other posts in this same thread. I will say if this is really a scam he would
NEVER directly respond to any of these threads, because as soon as he engages us
he knows the end result will be admissions and revelations that will cost him
deposit money. Sometimes it's more telling what someone doesn't say than what
they do say. Wayne has a couple of million reasons to keep his mouth closed on
this subject.
erickit
> In article <0b750dbc-94ed-47c7-a671-998ba8767...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYlAwvz8uwc&feature=fvst
Eric
raddroxx
> In article <0b750dbc-94ed-47c7-a671-998ba8767...@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Sounds like a dog and pony show to me.
Bill
Bill Pobega
David Gersic
> A quick story. A couple years ago I was really interested in using
> Cactus Canyon-like drop targets, which of course was patented by
> Williams (if you don't know, CC uses single-coil controlled drop
> targets, a really clever design in an application that usually
> requires 2 coils).
I've never seen the inside of a CC, so I don't know what this mech
looks like, but I do wonder if that patent could have been fought
on a prior art claim. Zaccaria did a single-coil up/down mech (not
a drop target mech, though) used on Devil Riders, and I seem to
recall at least one manufacturer had a single-coil up/down mech
used for a between the flippers up-post.
It's a moot point now if Gene let the patent expire, though.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Anagram: Dormitory = Dirty Room |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |
Kyle Wren
>
>On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:06:30 -0800 (PST), Keith Johnson <pinbal...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> A quick story. A couple years ago I was really interested in using
>> Cactus Canyon-like drop targets, which of course was patented by
>> Williams (if you don't know, CC uses single-coil controlled drop
>> targets, a really clever design in an application that usually
>> requires 2 coils).
>
>I've never seen the inside of a CC, so I don't know what this mech
>looks like, but I do wonder if that patent could have been fought
>on a prior art claim. Zaccaria did a single-coil up/down mech (not
>a drop target mech, though) used on Devil Riders, and I seem to
>recall at least one manufacturer had a single-coil up/down mech
>used for a between the flippers up-post.
>
>It's a moot point now if Gene let the patent expire, though.
I became a little familiar with these mechs as at one time I was shopping out 2
games at once. It's pretty ingenious (but simple) mech, they modified the catch
so that either the ball hitting the target or firing the coil again would pop
the target down. I had a lot of trouble with mine related to the application of
the "missing" drop target decals. The catch on the target was so light that the
additional depth of putting on the stickers was enough to keep my targets from
staying up with game related vibrations. I think I ended up getting them to
work, but my recommendation would be to run without the target decals as it
makes the mechanism a little fussier. YMMV of course.
cody chunn
Not a dog and pony show. You have to actually have some dogs and ponies for
that one.
WayNo is playing the classic Shell Game (aka 3 Card Monty). Which shell is
the MM money under? Better pick the right shell!
--
-cody
--CARGPB4
[Note: Following any advice given in this message
may result in property damage, minor injury, serious injury or death.
Follow advice at your own peril.]
"raddroxx" <radd...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0b98e206-57a9-45e7...@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
greatw...@hotmail.com
> No, no, no!
>
> Not a dog and pony show. You have to actually have some dogs and ponies for
> that one.
>
> WayNo is playing the classic Shell Game (aka 3 Card Monty). Which shell is
> the MM money under? Better pick the right shell!
>
> --
> -cody
> --CARGPB4
> [Note: Following any advice given in this message
> may result in property damage, minor injury, serious injury or death.
> Follow advice at your own peril.]
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pictures are now posted for Flash Gordon Test Samples.
Ballypinball
Correct
Out of 21 Patents IPB had, 18 he failed to pay the renewals on.
Out of the 78 I own, all have been paid
Even the 3 that I own that are licensed to Stern.
They might not have much value these days, like the white plastic with
holes in it, used on the backglass on wpc95 games the renewal was $4k
US paid a week ago
I think i have paid out over 100k in the past 5 years on renewals.
raddroxx
>
> - Show quoted text -
So with the patents that IPB has failed to renew, why not snag those
and almost have the complete set of patents then and start to
reproduce MM? Or do the 3 remaining patents that IPB still holds by
what you say have to do with MM?
brainsnap
>
> Derek at Universal Studios was shocked to see your Display Panels and
> are watching in Interest, as they have not been submitted to Universal
> Licensing or WMS from IPB for any approval.
>
Talking of which - did someone say ADAMS FOUNDATION WaynO ??
milt
> So with the patents that IPB has failed to renew, why not snag those
> and almost have the complete set of patents then and start to
> reproduce MM? Or do the 3 remaining patents that IPB still holds by
> what you say have to do with MM?
Damn it, don't encourage him to do that! Then it would mean LESS parts
for everyone else! What we want is for Wayne to LOSE what he has now,
not get more! He loses, everyone else wins. However, he won't be able to
use the "It's Gene's fault" excuse as for why he can't actually produce
a pinball machine. Truth is, he is completely incapable of producing >1<
single machine, he knows it, he just doesn't want everyone else to know
it so he keeps up the "pinball factory" charade.
kenny_ii
You can't pick up a renewal on an expired patent. Doesn't work like
that.
K2
frankMi
I do think he has brought a ton of parts to life again
so I don't want him to "lose" and I don't think everyone else
would win if he did. My opinion.
He has manufactured(or "re", whatever) a ton of parts
and arguably done a good job.
I think most people underestimate business, that's why the
failure rate of business is so high.
Oh well, it's easy to critique, yet difficult to create.
frank
JD
collect royalties after someone else (4th party) CREATES said product
and wants to make money from their work. IE, sell it publicly and from
fear of the C&D, contact Wayne and Gene and negotiate the best deal that
benefits the creator of the product and license holder.
I'd like to see a list of products Wayne actually sat down and created
himself. Not stuff from BAA or anyone else.
-JD-
ldnayman
D letter or kept me from getting a part so what do I care.
People who insist he's a "crook," when he's never been proven to have
crooked anyone, are drama queens.
Expat
> I think most people believe Wayne, hasn't done squat except sit back and
> collect royalties after someone else (4th party) CREATES said product
> and wants to make money from their work. IE, sell it publicly and from
> fear of the C&D, contact Wayne and Gene and negotiate the best deal that
> benefits the creator of the product and license holder.
>
> I'd like to see a list of products Wayne actually sat down and created
> himself. Not stuff from BAA or anyone else.
>
> > I'm not a hater or a fan.
>
> > I do think he has brought a ton of parts to life again
> > so I don't want him to "lose" and I don't think everyone else
> > would win if he did. My opinion.
>
> > He has manufactured(or "re", whatever) a ton of parts
> > and arguably done a good job.
>
> > I think most people underestimate business, that's why the
> > failure rate of business is so high.
>
> > Oh well, it's easy to critique, yet difficult to create.
>
> > frank
Well common sense says that since he's in the business of repro parts
what exactly do you expect him to do???
WMS and Stern GASP !!! never manufactured any parts in-house either
It was all third party/sub-contracted & manufactured to spec
I swear people use yer friggin' noggin' before posting this kinda
nonsense or as Pin Laden would say!
Pinball Jihad NOW !!!! ;)
zaranorb
... and possibly damaging the pinball hobby.
Even if he had sent me a C/D letter, I would acknowledge his legal
right to protect his investment and his contribution to the pinball
community.
JD
Didn't Williams DE/Sega/Stern engineer the parts and probably the
process to create them before subbing it out to vendors for mass
production?
I would bet that is why Williams had the molds to give to Gene....
Wayne isn't doing much but going, ok, I now bestow upon thee the ability
to sell your own stuff..... now pay up b*tch!
-JD-
Ballypinball
> I think most people believeWayne, hasn't done squat except sit back and
> collect royalties after someone else (4th party) CREATES said product
> and wants to make money from their work. IE, sell it publicly and from
> benefits the creator of the product and license holder.
>
> himself. Not stuff from BAA or anyone else.
>
> -JD-
>
>
>
> frankMi wrote:
> > I'm not a hater or a fan.
>
> > I do think he has brought a ton of parts to life again
> > so I don't want him to "lose" and I don't think everyone else
> > would win if he did. My opinion.
>
> > He has manufactured(or "re", whatever) a ton of parts
> > and arguably done a good job.
>
> > I think most people underestimate business, that's why the
> > failure rate of business is so high.
>
> > Oh well, it's easy to critique, yet difficult to create.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I make no money at all on the 200 products made by your so called 4th
party, so I would get your facts straight, Bay area will confirm I
receive no money or product as compensation in anyway.
If I make nothing, then the magic parts Fairy must, as IPB no Longer
make or sell anything other than Playfields/Plastics Sets/Cabinet Art
and translites.
Last Time i looked, I have made more of all the items but Playfields
on my site.
Check theirs and mine and feel free to disagree
erickit
>
> - Show quoted text -
I checked your site, how many of the games you advertise have been
made?
Just a ballpark in round numbers will suffice, no need to bother the
boys in accounting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFoxeCO7_TM&feature=fvw
Eric
miracleman
Your attitude and statements lead me to believe you will not be happy
until YOU are the only person making pinball parts and all of us are
licking your shoes.
IMHO
Kyle Wren
Ballypinball says...
Wayne, I think you are the greatest businessman that the world of pinball has
ever seen. Your spare parts business has saved us all, without your involvement
all of our games would have been hauled to the trash heap years ago. Everything
you have done from a business sense related to the production and licensing of
spare parts for pinball machines has made sense and is completely justifiable.
You stand alone.
Now that we are past that point and don't need to dwell on it anymore I just
have a few questions: would you mind sharing with us a bit on how the production
of the new run of Medieval Madness pinball machines which will be Bally branded
are going? Any pictures you want to share with us? Any guesses on an estimated
completion date for the first game, and then maybe a guess on the 1000th game
completion date?
Thanks!