Recall TF LE

[shlockdoc]

So today the announcement to pre-order the next great hype pin. Where
is an official word on TF LE. Your Christmas gift from Gomez was WoF
part II. Shoddy decals, KNOWN defective drop target, playfields that
dont work and no offical word from the staff as to how to fix it, it
takes 6 weeks to fix a drop target issue.

Hold tight for the power pack???? missing rubbers and a manual? sounds
like a "shut them up " till will pump out the next half baked unfished
pinball.

Gary Stern, what are you doing to make my LE right? I know some folks
that are very bitter with their purchase and are considering all their
options.

Knowing all that we know - STERN could not get TF LE right with tech
they have used for 50 years, though they are expected to get this
"groundbreaking" technology right on the first go around with AC\DC -
HA. Should be fun.

Boy my TF LE is like cactus canyon now. Unfinished and the last
traditional pinball stern makes before they go out of business or are
sued by the same people that defend them when they deliver this
"groundbreaking" new pin.

Shame on Gomez, Shame on Stern.

[macrossplus]

Dude, I understand your frustration, but back off a little. I would be
upset if I sunk a good chunk of change on a game that has issues, but
they aren't going to be fixed overnight. All you are doing right now is
bitching and pissing and moaning about something that you can't control,
which seems silly and pointless. There have been comments and feedback
posted about this game, but you are bordering on obsession with this
stuff. I want Transformers to be an amazing game as much as you do, and
I am sure that Mr. Gomez and his team wanted the same thing. For some
reason, maybe some of which we will learn, probably some that will have
to stay under Stern's roof, this game was sent out with problems. I am
sure that alot of them will be addressed, but even then that probably
won't make you happy, so whatever.


--
macrossplus
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Ben Yetter]

In all honesty Class Action law suit. Just filling it will get
something done. Let them know that the people who purchase will fight
back. Gary prob wont really do shit unless there is a public
statement. Investors will be peeved that it took a lawsuit to make
him move.

Who cares if they go out of business......why do i say that because if
its to the point where there selling crap who is going to keep buying
the crap to keep them open?

I dont think its right for Stern to learn on out dime. I dont see how
thats the end users issue?

[Joey]

As a paying customer he has every right to bitch, moan, or do what
ever he wants. What gives you the right to say otherwise.

[Ben Yetter]

Before anyone gets there panties in a bunch about that comment its the
truth. Are you happy with a 6,xxx zizzle? Thought not.
If you truly want something to be done ie; recall new parts whatever
take it to court. File the papers cost 100 bucks and says WAKE THE
FUCK UP to stern.

As a consumer we do have rights. IF a game was advertised as having
something and fails to deliver that is false advertising.

[Mike Gervasi]

First let me say I have not played and do not own a TF so I'm not up
on any specific issues with it.
But I'm wondering what parts are GG's fault? This is meant as a
serious question as I've dealt with and even gotten a personal phone
call from him and I've found him to be a genuinely nice person and
really cares about pinball and his designs.

[photoarts1]

Love my TF-LE, works fine, no decal problems, one of the best Stern
has made!! Ball only gets stuck every 30 games or so which you could
easily say that is type of thing happens with my Bally and Williams
machines as well.
Can't wait for AC/DC!!! GO STERN!!!

[yetterben]

I just ordered a pro. MY thoughts where if you have a big enough issue
than do something about it lol.


--
yetterben

[Pinballradio]

On Jan 8, 9:24 am, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:

This stinks for you man. I hope it works out. If anything, you made
me happy I went with WOZ instead.
These TF LE's seem to be a mess :(

[cody chunn]

Given Stern's recent track record you KNEW FULL WELL there may be completion
or CQ problems.

Sell it and move on, or play it and have fun.

EVERY Stern that comes out has something gapped up in it. Some worse than
others. It is a calculated risk you decided to take.

"You pay yer munny you take yer chances!"

As long as they keep selling under the current lackadaisical scheme, nothing
is going to change. They will take a sell followed by complaints instead of
a no sale all year long.

-cody


"shlockdoc" wrote in message
news:5aff30b1-a222-441a...@cf6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

[BC_Gambit]

For curiousity's sake do you have to pull the glass off once every 30
games, or is this a "nudge game a bit to unstick ball" scenario.

If you are pulling the glass off once every 30 games, that is still
crazy; I can't think of a game in my collection that needs to be opened
with that frequency (ongoing basket case projects do not count during
the repair phase :) ).

photoarts1;1857781 Wrote:
> On Jan 8, 10:10*am, Ben Yetter <yetter... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> > On Jan 8, 9:07*am, Ben Yetter <yetter... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:>
> In all honesty Class Action law suit. Just filling it will get
> > > something done. Let them know that the people who purchase will
> fight
> > > back. Gary prob wont really do shit unless there is a public

> > > statement. Investors *will be peeved that it took a lawsuit to make

> > > him move.
> >
> > > Who cares if they go out of business......why do i say that because
> if
> > > its to the point where there selling crap who is going to keep
> buying
> > > the crap to keep them open?
> >
> > > I dont think its right for Stern to learn on out dime. I dont see
> how
> > > thats the end users issue?
> >
> > Before anyone gets there panties in a bunch about that comment its
> the
> > truth. Are you happy with a 6,xxx zizzle? Thought not.
> > If you truly want something to be done ie; recall new parts whatever
> > take it to court. File the papers cost 100 bucks and says WAKE THE
> > FUCK UP to stern.
> >
> > As a consumer we do have rights. IF a game was advertised as having
> > something and fails to deliver that is false advertising.
>
> Love my TF-LE, works fine, no decal problems, one of the best Stern
> has made!! Ball only gets stuck every 30 games or so which you could
> easily say that is type of thing happens with my Bally and Williams
> machines as well.
> Can't wait for AC/DC!!! GO STERN!!!

--
BC_Gambit

[Jeff Palmer]

On Jan 8, 9:24 am, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:

Honestly, I am sorry to hear you are so disappointed and having so
many problems with your TFLE.

I personally enjoy the TFLE game and it is not because I own one. If
it were a bad game or not fun, I'd let it go-I have before with newly
bought games. Buying the game does not give it a pass in my book.

Most importantly I find the TFLE ruleset quite appealing and the game
is deep. I love the 2 stages of wizard modes available. That is my
main appeal in a game-rules. My son and I like the theme as well which
is major plus.

I disabled the drop target (OK to do in V 1.2) which makes the game
play SO MUCH better with no airballs. Having to hit the 3 blue targets
to light lock is a decent rule. I know some people will say "well we
paid for that and can't use it without problems", but honestly the
game plays great without it in the equation. If you have not disabled
it, try it.

I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of
that drop target issue.

I have not had a problem with my mini playfield so I cannot comment
there.

I am not hung up on the fact that they used decals or other Stern QC
issues. I gave up on expecting perfection in a pin long ago. I know
how to fix my games if things go amiss. Yes, it is an expensive game,
it's brand new and should need no work, I understand that
frustration. I have been down that road with so many NIB games, I
guess I have adjusted. Doesn't make it better for you, I know.

I sincerely hope things work out for you.

[Rare Hero]

On Jan 8, 8:21 am, BC_Gambit <BC_Gam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> For curiousity's sake do you have to pull the glass off once every 30
> games, or is this a "nudge game a bit to unstick ball" scenario.

I've got 400 games on my TFLE, never had to take the glass off. I've
nudged balls loose (behind Optimus' foot), and the ball search has
loosened balls (stuck on top of the Ironhide mini pf). No big deal.

Shlockdoc - this game is causing you too much stress and pain...and
it's turning you real bitter and pissy. It's too bad - I'm having so
much fun with my game. You need to return it to your distributor.
Just be done with it...the whole situation has left you with such a
bad experience, I don't even think you'd allow yourself to enjoy it if
everything was resolved reasonably. Get rid of it. Move on. Someone
else will enjoy it.

Greg

[photoarts1]

> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Usually just a nudge, rarely does it get stuck in far left corner
which you do have to remove the glass to set it free.

p

[phishrace]

On Jan 8, 6:24 am, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
< latest rant snipped >

Dude. You need to give it up. You're well past the annoying stage now
and bordering on official RGP meme territory. The butthurt buyer who
never opened his game. Is that really how you want to be remembered?

-phish

[Lloyd Olson]

In all this, have you called Stern, work your way up the chain of command to
get higher ups or George or Gary, and let them know ?

They may make things right, and they may want to know from a customer, so
they can improve where they need to.

Posts from here may not get to where it would matter.

LTG :)

"shlockdoc" <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote in message
news:5aff30b1-a222-441a...@cf6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

[chuck]

Of course you tried the game before you bought it right? Read the
reviews of other owners?

[shlockdoc]

phishrace;1857937 Wrote:

> On Jan 8, 6:24*am, shlockdoc <mkl... (AT) nj.rr (DOT) com> wrote:
> < latest rant snipped >
>
> Dude. You need to give it up. You're well past the annoying stage now
> and bordering on official RGP meme territory. The butthurt buyer who
> never opened his game. Is that really how you want to be remembered?
>
> -phish

Really? You can remember me anyway want. Don't read the thread.


--
shlockdoc

[shlockdoc]

I do not have any other pins stern bally or Williams that I ever need to
remove the glass every 30 balls. Sorry to hear that.


--
shlockdoc

[Max Badazz]

>> The butthurt buyer who never opened his game.

All this bitching and the game has not even been open yet???? LOL

Sorry, but this kind of crap that I am seeing on multiple posts from
someone who never opened the game becomes broderline Gary Cubeta
fodder. Either open the game, face any issues, and work on them to be
corrected, or sell the NIB and move on. Stern machines will have
issues, everyone knows it, and everyone needs to accept it (even
though it kind of sucks). To people who have actually opened their
game and had issues, I am sorry to hear that and I hope the problems
are solved for you...... but all these posts bitching about a game
that hasn't been opened yet....really lame

Chris (in NH)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/maxbadazz

[photoarts1]

I don't have any machines either that require the glass to be removed
30 "balls" either.
"30" games perhaps on a couple....

p

[Taylorva]

I think in lieu of Stern's past practices it is hard to defend them.

WOF seems to me to be the one game people really consider
unfinished(just making this assumption by what I have read). I think the
assumption of any buyer is that the game will at least be finished at
some point. If this is not the case I can certainly see where someone
would have legal grounds.

In the case of TFLE I think it is too early in this pins life to assume
that the problems will not be resolved.

I do think Sterns marketing of this pin was interesting. The part where
they showed the cannon firing out the balls seemed to imply that this
was,part of the design . These were obviously made to market the pin so
if Stern knew this feature was not in the game but still used it in
their marketing it certainly seems deceptive IMO.


--
Taylorva

[Rompen]

On Jan 8, 8:24 am, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
> So today the announcement to pre-order the next great hype pin. Where
> is an official word on TF LE. Your Christmas gift from Gomez was WoF
> part II. Shoddy decals, KNOWN defective drop target

Like I said before, you need to cut them some slack. These new "drop
target" thingies are very new technology, nobody's used them before,
and who knew they would produce airballs? Don't blame Stern! This is
an unexplored new area for them. A new frontier on the bleeding edge
of what we humans can conceive and implement! There was no way they
could have anticipated such a problem. Stop being a hater!

[Jonny O]

On Jan 8, 10:00 am, Rare Hero <rarehero...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Shlockdoc - this game is causing you too much stress and pain...and
> it's turning you real bitter and pissy.  It's too bad - I'm having so
> much fun with my game.  You need to return it to your distributor.
> Just be done with it...the whole situation has left you with such a
> bad experience, I don't even think you'd allow yourself to enjoy it if
> everything was resolved reasonably.  Get rid of it.  Move on.  Someone
> else will enjoy it.
>
> Greg

Exactly!

[azpinlawyer]

+1

[Rompen]

On Jan 8, 12:00 pm, Rare Hero <rarehero...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Shlockdoc - this game is causing you too much stress and pain...and
> it's turning you real bitter and pissy.  It's too bad - I'm having so
> much fun with my game.  You need to return it to your distributor.
> Just be done with it...the whole situation has left you with such a
> bad experience, I don't even think you'd allow yourself to enjoy it if
> everything was resolved reasonably.  Get rid of it.  Move on.  Someone
> else will enjoy it.

I understand your perspective, but don't you also think that if nobody
complains, things won't improve?

My point with the sarcastic comment about drop targets is, surely by
now Stern can come up with a drop target that minimizes the chance
that the ball's going to fly into never-never-land? How frickin'
difficult is that to do? Angle the targets, make them stronger or out
of a different material, but c'mon this is 40+ year old technology
that they still haven't managed to get right. That's just
ridiculous. I'm sure if a lot more of their machines were in the
wild, operators would not stand for such fault-intolerance. Why
should collectors?

[shlockdoc]

Really Gary? Ok. Please just dont read my thread. What I choose to do
with my game and my thoughts is just that. I have not called any rgp
member a name or told them what to do. Why am I treated this way.

I will work it out. I want to unbox it that is why I bought it. And I
bought it from a top flight guy and he should not have to be put in
any position by stern to defend them. Enjoy your game and if I can
help get it fixed and completed or other resolution, I will be
remembered by phish as the guy who made a difference. Not the rest of
the RGpeanut gallery that resorts to name calling.

Greg, rare hero for the record, i agree with you and am trying to
resolve it. I love pinball and this is a shame. To all the plus
ones. I worked in the music business for along time. You are
someone's plus one.

Lloyd based on the title wide issues and not isolated to one machine,
I should not have to hunt the pecking order down. They should be in
contact with the TF LE owners. That's how I handle my business and
hope to never be in the position I feel stern is in.

Chuck there was not a single sample to play.

Photosarts1. Ha yes 30 balls would need me to remove the glass unless
it was hyper ball?

This is turning in an awards speech. I hear the music to go to
commercial. Stay tuned and as your candidate for rgp ombudsman. I
promise to lower taxes, raise revenue for operators and a chicken in
every pot.

[John]

I don't have much of horse in this race, other than I do have a
TFLE. Is it true you haven't opened the box? If so, seems like
you should not open it and sell it back to your distributor or contact
Stern. I'm bummed to hear about the issues with the game for
folks. I guess I got lucky and have few issues with mine. Notably
I do not have many airballs off my drop target (maybe one in 100
shots), I don't have any hang ups, mini has worked great from day one
and I can't recall having to remove the glass to free a ball except
once (I have maybe 100 plays on the game).

Things I actually like are the sweet rule set, the quick pace of the
game, the variety of shots and modes. If anything, they did pack
this one with code. I thought I'd hate the plastic apron, but as it
turns out, it's sent a few balls back into play and I like that as I
need all the help I can get.

If you want Stern to fix the problems, I'm with you on not wanting to
spend so much dough and not have a perfect game. I guess the thing
is if you do set it up, you might find you don't have the issues
though....in which case you are missing time on a game with a nice
ruleset and some tough shots.

I'm all in, in terms of disappointment that there was no goodie bag,
the making of videos discussing 6 balls firing out at you, no
transforming toys etc., but still the game is fun, addictive and
challenging. I still haven't seen Sentinel, beat Optimus Mb, or
Megatron MB yet. It's a lot of fun to try to get there.

I really hope you either get your full money out of returning the game
or open it and have a change of heart. If you contact Stern, I
wouldn't tell them you did not open it yet.

Good Luck, hopefully the games we can buy just keep getting better and
better.

[Lloyd Olson]

I appreciate that you handle your business better.

I just think if every buyer who had problems called them, would be better.

If no one bothers to call, they may not care.

LTG :)

"shlockdoc" <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote in message

news:a84cdb57-908e-46b1...@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...

[eagle68]

I have about 60 games on mine, one stuck ball that I probably could
have nudged (underneath Starscream, when he deflects the ball to the
bottom playfield behind the far left post), but other than that I am
enjoying the game and my boys really like it as well. I'd give a B
with potential for a B+ if they work out the few remaining kinks and
update the software, but have to agree that Stern needs more QC (with
applying decals, etc) before these things leave the factory. It's a
shame they can't make a full featured game for $4500 retail, I think
6-6.5k Sterns are overpriced (regardless of title) at this point. LE's
so far, TRS and Avatar =not very good, Tron LE= good pin, a few more
mechanical toys would have been nice (can't wait to get a Tron
Premium if they decide to re-run them), TFLE - pretty good but still
needs some work. IMHO

[Captain Neo]

On Jan 8, 8:24 am, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
> So today the announcement to pre-order the next great hype pin. Where
> is an official word on TF LE. Your Christmas gift from Gomez was WoF

> part II. Shoddy decals, KNOWN defective drop target, playfields that
> dont work and no offical word from the staff as to how to fix it, it
> takes 6 weeks to fix a drop target issue.
>
> Hold tight for the power pack???? missing rubbers and a manual? sounds
> like a "shut them up " till will pump out the next half baked unfished
> pinball.
>
> Gary Stern, what are you doing to make my LE right?  I know some folks
> that are very bitter with their purchase and are considering all their
> options.
>
> Knowing all that we know - STERN could not get TF LE right with tech
> they have used for 50 years, though they are expected to get this
> "groundbreaking" technology right on the first go around with AC\DC -
> HA. Should be fun.
>
> Boy my TF LE is like cactus canyon now. Unfinished and the last
> traditional pinball stern makes before they go out of business or are
> sued by the same people that defend them when they deliver this
> "groundbreaking" new pin.
>
> Shame on Gomez, Shame on Stern.

well if your looking to unload it. I'm still toying with the idea of
getting one, so shoot me an email.

[chuck]

On Jan 8, 3:53 pm, shlockdoc <mkl...@nj.rr.com> wrote:

> Chuck there was not a single sample to play.

If you buy a machine before trying it you're rolling the dice.
Furthermore, you are your own worst enemy. You bought a machine sight
unseen and then complain about issues? Here's how it really works:

1) Manufacturer makes widget.
2) Public sees widget and buys widget if it's a quality widget and
serves its stated purpose.
3) If the widget isn't a quality item it won't sell. The manufacturer
learns to increase quality of future widgets or dies.

You bought it without trying it first. Hell, you haven't tried it yet
which is why I find your constant complaints even more strange. Now I
won't disagree that there seems to be an issue with the drop target,
that Stern is addressing btw. How many people here have actually
played their machines and love them. Are all of your complaints are
based on RGP posts? If that's the case I'll suggest that you've made a
third mistake.

[Max Badazz]

> Really Gary? Ok. Please just dont read my thread.  What I choose to do
> with my game and my thoughts is just that.  I have not called any rgp
> member a name or told them what to do. Why am I treated this way.

I am not calling you a name. I am calling these posts Gary fodder. I
know that TF has issues, they have been beaten to death here. However
your ranting on this post and chiming in on others basically bashing a
game that has not been opened and may not have issues beyond the
already reported is silly. And like others have said, what have you
done with Stern to fix these issues that may pop up in said unopened
box? I know you have read many Stern posts here on RGP before with
issues that have come up with games over the years. You knew buying a
NIB game has a 99.9% chance of having one (sorry Stern for the cheap
shot there). But the complaining just sounds like you are stirring up
the pot for the wrong reasons (attention more than asking for help).
More of lets bash a company rather than educating them to fix the
issues. What bothers me on this is that the game is unopened. This
means that you can sell that LE for probably a profit, and come out of
this thing with some extra cash without having to blink an eye on the
issues. Or open that box, work on fixing the issues, and voice a
valid claim to Stern about fixing it. I ponied up big bucks for the
Tron LE myself when that was announced and yes it had some issues. I
knew that this may come up and worked with them to get them fixed.
Everyone who buys NIB risks the same. I think you just need to take a
deep breath and relax...things will get worked out. And having the
option to sell without losing a dime should make things easy for you.
Had I not picked up an IM yesterday, I would have placed an order for
a TF today to get.

Chris (in NH)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/

[apimo...@yahoo.com]

All I thought of while reading shlockdoc's tirade was ''jilted
bride.'' Dude, it took Stern MONTHS to get LOTR ironed out. Go read
THOSE posts. Idiots rushed to peg LOTR as ''a mechanical disaster,''
yet it turned out OK. Patience, young grasshopper. Patience.

[Lloyd Olson]

Perhaps buyers thought they should get a little more since LOTR was $2K
cheaper ?

LTG :)

<apimo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:de133c8c-c360-450d...@u32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

[bigehrl]

i'm gonna go out a limb here and say ya really need to open the box.

i mean,you forked over all that money, and your staring at a cardboard
box?

at bare minimum, open it, try it once, then shut it off, and stare at
the machine unboxed. it's a lot prettier.

if you lose $500 cuz it's 'unboxed', then screw it! these are pinball
machines, not matchbox cars.

as george gomez said in 'tilt', we're building the biggest baddest toys
in the world. you as a consumer should expect a loss here and there my
man. bite the bullet, we all have!!!

-jon


--
bigehrl

[jasonpaulbauer]

My machine has over 250 plays on it and no stuck balls. Sounds like a
tolerance stack up issue. I've only had the glass off to adjust the out
lanes and install the FF speaker set.

Im sure Im not the minority on this either.... seems those with issues
are the ones that make noise... those of us with out the issue are
quiet.

The game is brutally fun... your missing out by bitching about issues
when you haven't even tried playing it.


--
jasonpaulbauer

IM, SM, TSPP, BSD, JD, TF-AE

[cra...@yahoo.com]

If I may suggest a thought here...
George Gomez is on FB. He reads and responds to posts and PM's. IF you
have an issue you've actually experienced firsthand why not address it
to him there? Give him a chance to look into and solve these issues.
I think that would get a faster response/solution than posting a
complaint here to people who can't do a thing about it.


--
cra...@yahoo.com