EM Tech: Sky Jump
djcharlie17
better at this!
Anyway, helping a super nice older gentlemen fix his Sky Jump. Got all
issues solved but one big one.
As soon as the ball hits the trough switch, the score starts adding 10
points and won't quit... kinda acts like when a target switch gets
stuck.
I've been all over the score motor, the relay bank, and the score
reels. Everything is clean and adjusted nicely to the best of my
ability. The game resets perfectly, and all seems well except the
constant scoring.
Is there something else I should be looking for?
Thanks EM gurus...
Chuck E.
c...@provide.net
When a single player resets, the ball unit
in the backbox goes to "home" or "zero"
position. At this point the game is "dead."
As the ball is served to the shooter lane,
it advances the ball unit to "ball one", and
the flipper and all coils go "live."
It really sounds like all you have is a stuck
playfield 10 point switch. You could also
have a stuck switch on the pop bumper
relays too (under the playfield), or on the
slingshot under-the-playfield switches.
c...@provide.net
Oh yea there could be a switch gapped
too close on the 10 point relay in the backbox
too. check that out also.
djcharlie17
but I swear I've been over every one twice now.
I did clean the pop bumper relays and slingshots. I'll make sure I
didn't knock something out of adjustment while doing that.
Thanks as always!
> slingshot under-the-playfield switches.- Hide quoted text -
>
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homebrood
Sounds like one of the 10 point switches is stuck, the ones behind the
rubber that's behind the drop targets are famous for getting stuck,
also the the one behind the rebound rubber at the upper left is a 10
pt. switch check that one too. One of them is most likely adjusted too
close and is racking up points...The pop bumpers are 100 pts. as I
believe the rollovers are so probably not one of them. If it was a
sling switch then you would hear the slings kicking or humming so
might not be one of them either... If you recently changed rubber on
the machine or did a wax job then these switches often get bent or
caught up on the rubber...
Tom
djcharlie17
on the playfield and double checked the pop relays. No change. Looked
for any bent wires and contacts, nothing there either.
Going after that 10 point relay in the backbox again.
> Tom- Hide quoted text -
homebrood
I think clay is right and that this may actually be more likely. Isn't
the usual behavior when a playfield switch is stuck for it to score
once at the start of the game and then stop and none of the other
related switches will work until the stuck switch is released? Or am I
thinking of SS games, I don't know I'm tired... but it just Might be
that 10 point relay...
Tom
djcharlie17
and the tens work fine if that means anything.
That should eliminate the easy stuff... what can I check next?
Thanks guys.
Chuck E.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
GOCATGO
Have you tried 'banging' lightly on the pf to see if the 10's goes
off'? And just another thought...is there a bonus unit on that game
(not familiar w/it)maybe it isnt completely reset and adding 10's when
the ball drains.
Russ
Keep on flippin' Al
www.Team-EM.com
djcharlie17
chugging along freely.
Checked all the 10 pointers (and even the higher value ones) again.
Nothing!
I'm calling the exorcist.
Chuck E.
> Keep on flippin' Alwww.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
GOCATGO
>
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A thought...Are the wipers adjusted properly on the bonus unit...as in
hitting the metal rivets in the ctr?
djcharlie17
I'm pretty sure they are.
I again just went thru every switch, every relay in the bank for bent
tabs and switch alignment... nothing. Went over the relays in the
backbox for a quick clean and adjustment, nothing...
Keep the suggestions coming. Who the hell thought a 1 player would be
such a tricky beast!?!
Chuck E.
> > > Keep on flippin' Alwww.Team-EM.com-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> A thought...Are the wipers adjusted properly on the bonus unit...as in
> hitting the metal rivets in the ctr?
>
> Russ
> Keep on flippin' Alwww.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -
mikeo
Let's take stock of the condition you are experiencing.
First, the primary single 10's scoring switches, if stuck on, will
lock the 10 point relay and not release it. Since you indicated it
scores continuously, this is not the place to look.
On Sky Jump the stand up targets give 50 points or 500 points when the
corresponding 1 to 7 rollover has been darkened. For the game to
continuously score 10's (it's probably scoring 50 at a time) I'd look
at the stand up targets. One is most assuredly stuck on. To find out
which one, roll over the number rollovers and see which one changes
from tens to hundreds while you are still having this problem.
Lastly, this is a wedgehead. There is no bonus unit on this game.
Mike O.
Team-EM
On Nov 23, 7:22 pm, djcharlie17 <djcharli...@hotmail.com> wrote:
mikeo
This is a drop target game. And the drop targets, at the start of the
game, score 50 points except the one with the pink dot in front of
it.
Also inspect the switches on the back side of the drop target unit.
This is more likely the culprit. The stand up targets are more
protected and don't get misadjusted easily. The drop target switches
are easy to bump and get one, or the reinforcing tab, shorted.
Mike O.
Team-EM
> > Chuck E.- Hide quoted text -
djcharlie17
bonus.
I know the gaps are correct on the drop targets. I will give the
reinforcing tabs another look to be sure.
Good thing I'm on vacation!
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
djcharlie17
them with a fine tooth comb.
I did notice that it starts out adding 10 points constantly, but as
you hit some rollovers, it will jump to adding 50, 100, or whatever.
In any case, it never stops adding points.
djcharlie17
target #6 seems fine with nothing stuck on.
So... I'm still lost.
djcharlie17
hit that roll over, the constant scoring stops and the game plays
fine.
Until you start another game that is, then you have to hit roll over
#6 again to get it back to normal.
Chuck E.
Ron, (Boatcat)
Check the 10-point relay in the backbox.
Try manually releasing it while on ball 1. If it wants
to stay energized, you have a switch stuck on the
playfield. On the database, I only see 2 areas
where it appears there are switches scoring 10
points, (2 sets behind the drops, and 1 to the left
side of the left pop bumper). You have to visually
check these 3 switches thoroughly, not just spread
them apart with your fingers. The shorter tension
blade could be making and you may or may not be
able to see it. Lift the playfield up and carefully
inspect these from the contacts to the wiring on the
bottom!
It can't be anything scoring 50 points, or
along with the relay, you would have the score
motor running continuously. The rollovers probably
work because the score motor has a switch that
kills all other playfield switches while it scores the
50 or 500 points. Wouldn't be a sling, or the kicker
coil would be constantly energized along with the
10-point relay. May be wrong, but I believe the blue
pops always score 100 points, and they are always
lit.
djcharlie17
the game, 1st switch, left side.
---- = blade 3
---- = blade 2
---- = blade 1
Blade 2 is the one that gets moved.
If 2 comes into contact with 1 AT ALL... 10 points constantly
If 2 comes into contact with 3 AT ALL... 100 points constantly
Move blades 3 and 1 so they can't make contact, and the game plays
pretty much correct.
So what does that mean?
Steve Yates
>
> - Show quoted text -
According to the schematic, if the 6B Relay is changing the scoring
from 10 to 100, the problem must be in the Left Rollover Switch,
behind the drop targets.
It doesn't make sense that you are repeatedly scoring points though
unless the score motor is turning as well. As Mike said, the score
relay and reel coil should just lock on if you have a stuck switch,
unless the score motor turns to repeatedly break the circuit.
Steve Yates
Team-EM
http://REELpinball.com
Sean Kavanagh
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've been playing my SJ alot lately...it's for sale...great game -
$300 takes it!! :o)
Anyways...the #6 rollover lights the green light on the rollover to
the left of the drop target bank in line and below the #1 rollover.
Check this switch and switch stack for problems. Although I agree
with mikeo on the stuck switch theory...this is a curious problem...
Lucky for you I'm leaving early today and can go home and check my
schematic - sometime early afternoon...it sounds like you're working
without one? Shame, shame. ;o)
Sean
I believe the #6 rollover
djcharlie17
The score motor is turning when the points are racking up... sorry if
I didn't convey that.
I'll check the left rollover behind the drops again.
Chuck E.
> Team-EMhttp://REELpinball.com- Hide quoted text -
Ron, (Boatcat)
OK, the score motor is also turning,
we needed to know this......
I believe there are 2 rollovers associated
with each number on this machine. Along with
cancelling the number, I believe you have another
rollover or target that lites up to transfer scoring
from 50 to 500 points. I think you're now down to
whatever rollover the #6 lites up to score higher.
Good luck!
djcharlie17
de-soldered the wire off the #6 rollover... test, points still racking
up.
de-soldered both wires from the #6 drop target... test, points still
racking up.
de-soldered wire from rollover to left of drop targets... test, points
still racking up.
I think that eliminates the switches.
The only thing that stops the motor from chugging and racking up
points is to break the contact like I mentioned earlier on the 6B roll
over relay.
I know it has to be in that rollover chain somewhere... but I'm
dumbfounded as to where.
mikeo
50/500 switch. These are limited to the stand up targets and the drop
targets on this game.
And it sounds like you may have isolated it to the "6" circuit.
What changes when you make the 6 is that it trips the 6(6B) relay. If
this stops the motor from running I would look for a bent solder tab
or a stray solder splash between the tabs/leafs of a switch on this
relay.
I would also not rule out the 6 drop target scoring switch. You
stated that you desoldered the wires from the 6 drop target but this
is the only 50/500 switch in this circuit if, in fact, making the 6
lights the green rollover to the left of the drop target bank. A way
to test this switch would be to start a game with the 10's racking up
and index the center pop bumper so that the pink dot aligns with the 6
drop target. If the scoring goes from 10's to 100's you know the
issue is in the 6 drop target scoring circuit. If not, it is away
from this circuit and you may have a stray short through the 6
relay.
Mike O.
Team-EM
> > Good luck!- Hide quoted text -
djcharlie17
again, but I'm pretty sure it's good.
Thanks!
Chuck E.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
mikeo
Be sure to also run through the sequence I presented to rule out the
drop target circuit.
Mike O.
Team-EM
djcharlie17
> to test this switch would be to start a game with the 10's racking up
> and index the center pop bumper so that the pink dot aligns with the 6
> drop target. If the scoring goes from 10's to 100's you know the
> issue is in the 6 drop target scoring circuit. If not, it is away
> from this circuit and you may have a stray short through the 6
> relay.
Ok, started a game, motor and score (10's) running... pink dot moved
with center pop to #6... hit #6 drop, score briefly goes to 100's,
then back to 10's. Press switch on back of drop target again, jumps to
100's while its been made active.
Went back to 6B relay... the tabs are as far apart as they can be. No
solder splashes, no lose wires.
mikeo
Immediately after starting a game and without dropping the 6 drop
target what happens?
Is it scoring 10's continuously before the pink dot is aligned to it?
What is it scoring after the pink dot is aligned to it?
Index the pink dot one at a time to each drop target position and
pause. Does this cause the continuous scoring to change from 10's to
100's?
Have you inspected all of the jones plugs to be inserted properly?
Between the playfield and the main relay board? Between the playfield
and the head? Between the main relay board and the head?
Mike O.
Team-EM
John Robertson
Have you tried unplugging the playfield while the ten points is
incrementing? If it stops then you know the problem is somewhere on the
playfield, if it continues then the problem is elsewhere in the game.
Unplugging the playfield on most mid-60s and later EM or SS pins is
quite harmless other than you may touch the line contacts near the
transformer.
IF the playfield carries any 115VAC then DO NOT UNPLUG IT while the game
is live. However this is only in the 30's through early 60s (rare at
that point) games.
CHECK the schematic if not sure if your older game is safe to unplug the
playfield - follow the 115VAC circuits.
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
djcharlie17
Press start, game resets to zero... ball hits trough switch, scoring
and motor goes by 10's forever.
Align pink dot with #6 drop, and it's still 10's. Hit #6 drop, briefly
jumps to 100's while contact on the switch is made, then back to 10's.
Index pink dot to each drop, stays at 10's... unless you hit #6
rollover, then goes to 100's
All jones plugs were wire brushed clean and have since been reinserted
a couple times to be sure they were correct.
You're a real trooper Mike! Thanks for sticking with me.
Chuck E.
> > solder splashes, no lose wires.- Hide quoted text -
mikeo
Thank you for sharing this techinque.
Be careful on Sky Jump if you use this technique. There is 110V at
the drop target bank reset coil.
Mike O.
Team-EM
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."- Hide quoted text -
djcharlie17
sure don't want to mess it up any worse than it is.
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
djcharlie17
the bottom cabinet. The points stopped... start as soon as you plug it
back in.
Where to next guys?
I'm still looking for shorts in the switches or relays.
djcharlie17
contact on the first left side switch on 6B with either blade.
Just went over 6B again, and there are no shorts.
Roll over switches at #6, left of the drops, and #6 drop target all
had wires removed (one at a time, not all three switches together)
with no changes.
So if 6B breaks the cycle, it has to be in that chain, and if you
eliminate those three switches, what could be left?
mikeo
from 50 to 500 points when lit that is controlled by the 6B relay.
Try and identify which stand up target this is and inspect it for a
flaw. For that matter, inspect all of the yellow stand up targets for
flaws.
Another question for you. When this constant scoring is going on, is
the B relay pulling in each 50 points scored?
Mike O.
Team-EM
Ron, (Boatcat)
>if you eliminate those three switches, what could be left?
The problem could be anywhere that scores
50 points, or 500 points when lit. This means any
of 6 stationary targets, (which is probably the "Chain"
you keep referring to).
At the beginning of a game, inspect the 50
point relay, (in the base of the cabinet). If after trying
to manually de-energize it, it still wants to re-energize,
then you have 1 of the 6 target switches listed above
stuck!
If the 6B relay is not tripped by this mal-
function, then you could break the same contacts in
any of the other number relays and will probably also
stop this same symptom. What made you choose to
inspect the #6 target initially?
djcharlie17
over all playfield switches multiple times.
Yes, the 50 point relay is pulling in for every 50 points scored.
Breaking the contact on the other 5 relays in that bank does nothing
to stop the scoring... only the one on 6B has an effect. That's what
convinced me that I was on the right path... but I've been wrong
before!
Thanks guys.
Chuck E.
djcharlie17
> > inspect the #6 target initially?- Hide quoted text -
Ron, (Boatcat)
OK......By your description, it sounds
as though the 50 point relay is working properly,
(if it releases and re-energizes with every motor
revolution).
Since all that energizes the 50 point
relay is associated 50-point switches on the
playfield, and you're totally satisfied they are
OK, you'll have to begin tracing wiring from each
playfield switch worth 50 points, back to the
Jones Plug connectors. It's rare, but since the
switches are OK, there's a short in the switch
wiring, probably a solder splash, away from the
switches somewhere......Try and back-track the
work you did in the game, you did say you
worked on the pops and sling shots.
Good luck!
homebrood
This reminds me of a problem I had with my Spirit of 76 years ago.
It's a 4 player so could be totally unrelated but...
It was at Expo and I came down from the room to find the game was
turned off. I turned it on and as soon as I hit start it started
racking up 10 points non stop! I pulled the score reels and found a
switch on one of them that wasn't acting like the other switches on
the other score reels. Once I adjusted that score reel switch
everything was back to normal!
Pull the 10 point score reel and pull the others and cycle them
through the numbers watching which switches open and close and see if
you can find one that isn't like the others one that is not closing or
opening as the switches on the other score reels and you may find one
out of adjustment that is causing this issue... Sounds like a long
shot but this whole thing just reminded me of that whole thing that
happened to me at Expo...
Tom
djcharlie17
It is in fact a 50 point stand up target. I found it by removing the
wires to each target until the scoring stopped.
The target looks perfect... and I mean absolutely perfect. No visible
signs of a short at all. It has to be inside the insulators
somewhere... corrosion or something.
In any case, if you eliminate that 50 point switch, everything works
perfectly!
Now I hope I can repair this switch. Not like a have a bunch of ol'
Sky Jump standups lying around.
Thanks for the patience and advice guys. I really do appreciate it. In
any case, the old feller will be happy to have his game back in time
for Turkey Day with the grandkids. Worse case, minus one working 50
point switch.
Man, this one sucked!
Chuck E.
> Tom- Hide quoted text -
Ron, (Boatcat)
Congrats! This one has to feel pretty good!
djcharlie17
Had to force the switch apart, bolt it back together (no rivets that
freakin long) and it all works perfectly!
He'll be one happy old timer. :-)
"Here's your bill sir... took me three days, and the combined efforts
of half the EM gurus in the US of A... that will be $20."
Thanks guys!
Chuck E.
homebrood
Excellent! I think we'll all remember this one, I have a Sky Jump so
this might be something I can use in the future!
Nice work my freind!
Tom