Eliminating LED Ghosting on WPC Era Pins
jh
I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
My Creature is now Ghost free!
Here's a link to my analysis and the program.
http://emmytech.com/arcade/led_ghost_busting/index.html
Notes:
-This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
driver code.
-Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
have the problem?
Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
-How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
already there.
-Have you tested this for all games?
No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
update the program if feasible.
-This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
TheKorn
news:X4adneMNfPULF4rR...@earthlink.com:
Wow, kickass! I'll have to try this on a problem case (BoP).
(Why not? I have roms and a burner, and if it catches fire I also own a
fire extinguisher! :D )
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the
web or on DVD?
BlueMalibu
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
Impressive! Worth reading for sure - I now, for the first time,
understand what is going on and why. You obviously have experience
with this stuff.
Parker
Captain Neo
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
how do those of us that do not have burners nor the knowledge to patch
our roms get ahold of this? Awesome work. I think John wart should
have versions for LED's for known issue games. :) Stargate also
suffers from this problem.
miracleman
Tim N.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I haven't seen a single system 3 that didn't exhibit ghosting.... My
1812 and 911 both ghost... Ghosting is so faint, it doesn't bother me
at all, but it is definitely prevalent in System 3s...
Sam
Sam
Borygard
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
"jh" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:X4adneMNfPULF4rR...@earthlink.com...
JD
> You Sir (or Madam), are AWESOME!!!
>
Shouldn't we be testing it before we kiss his feet? I can't wait to test
it though!
Sounds very cool if it works!
-JD-
Reinhard
"Sam" <sam7...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:137257b1-e1fe-4dcc...@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Damn, someone try it out and let us know. Thanks Santa!
>
> Sam
Just burned a STNG rom for my game at home that has a few LEDs installed
(Which all ghost - some, worse than others). So, I will try it tonight and
let you know how it does. If it does some good but doesn't finish the job, I
will burn one with the extra delay and see if it helps.
RB
jh
I really hope you have success or I'm going to have mud in my face and
have wasted about 20 hours of my time 'productizing' the code and
setting up the web page.
That said, a couple clarifications:
-Please test with pinmame before installing in a pin.
I've tested 6 different games w/o issue using pinmame.
It is a good sanity test. If it comes up OK in pinmame I'd be very
surprised if the actual game doesn't come up and function properly.
The patch is only doing 3 things: Updating the lamp matrix driver,
updating the game revision, and updating the checksum.
-The code is open source and included in the zip file so anyone
wanting to see what is going on can take a look and build it theirself.
-Please let me know if you have success with what rom and what rev #
and I will update the web page to keep track of success cases.
-If you have an issue also please let me know and I will look into it.
-I want to re-iterate that what the code does is change how the driver
handles the lamp matrix to do what the Williams designers did from 1996
onward. It resolves a couple of blatant issues with the driver.
-If a power/driver board has other issues such as leaky transistors
that are not completely turning off then the patch will probably
not help.
I have read posts where people claim Rottendog cards have more severe
ghosting issues. I'm skeptical about the patch resolving whatever
is causing the problem there.
-Reinhard has already mentioned the 'extra delay' option. I added that
in because it was not difficult to do. However, the standard delay
is already very log in terms of electronics switching.
I'll be surprised if adding the extra delay actually helps when the
standard delay doesn't.
John...
Jazman
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
Wow - absolutely kick ass dude. I had thought about doing this sort
of thing a couple times. But there is NO WAY I would have gone to the
lengths you did. OUTSTANDING. If we run into each other at a show,
you drink for free my man!!!
Jaz
Reinhard
EXCELLENT!!! My STNG is now Ghost Free. Software works like a Champ!
I have been using LEDs in my Advance Rank and Jackpot/Lock Billboards
and since they are exposed LEDs, ghosting was very noticable. In
fact, at times the lock would be half bright (and then full bright
when lit). I have looked long and hard and I cannot see any sign of
ghosting at all after using the patching software. I also have LEDS
in the Green Bonus Multiplier X's and they too are just fine now.
So, Job well done and a big Thank you for your efforts.
BTW, once I read up on it on the website, the software was extremely
easy to use. But, you might want to add the same web text for syntax
to your future Read me file. Not totally sure about the final line
asking for a new file name. I had entered a new name on the command
line and that is what was used to save the new file. Maybe you are
refering to a name used by the original programmers embedded in the
ROM file?
RB
goatdan
Gottlieb System 3 and Whitestar games, it will have really fixed
issues that LEDs have!
To be complete, as people try this, can we list the game that it was
tried in and say if it made a difference or not? My Judge Dredd and
Demo Man have LEDs in them, and neither exhibits much ghosting, but
I'd be happy to pay for a new ROM or two if this fixes them further.
Hell, it would cause me to add more LEDs to my JD for sure. Can
anyone confirm if this makes a difference in these games before I send
out my ROM chips (wish I had my own burner!)
Thanks! This is an amazing addition!
Reinhard
Sorry John, I didn't read your entire "disclaimer" above and
therefore, forgot to mention the version I used. For STNG, I was
running LX7 and that is what I used to make the patched version.
After reading how you were adjusting the code, I had no fear of
putting it straight in my game (no pin-mame testing here).
RB
pinball brian
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
Very cool! Thank you.
PinAffliction
This is such a far reaching fix action that could affect thousands
over the coming years, Bravo!
I think we should start referring to these mod-ed code versions as
John Rom version x.x, or Jx.x.....
Scott
On Jun 15, 9:13 am, jh <johnh....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
> Here's a link to my analysis and the program.http://emmytech.com/arcade/led_ghost_busting/index.html
frenchy
leds or sockets, that is able to fix this problem? I thought it was
just a case of some slight current that would not be able to light a
bulb, but ends up slightly lighting an led?
Jazman
Frenchy - What is being done here is fixing the ROOT CAUSE of the
problem. Any other fixes are just band-aids. It is also MUCH cleaner
than physical fixes.
Jaz
Joe Jet
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
I cant tell an electrical circuit from a Map of texas...but how does
this fix relate to what Jeri ellsworth was working on?
Reinhard
Not saying there might not be a "mechanical" fix for it, but to answer
Frenchy's question, No, not really. I did a lot of experimenting with
using LEDs in our Retro Pinball design and in the end, the fact
remains: LEDs are instantly "on" no matter what. If there is any
power present or lingering from the previous strobe when you switch to
a new set of return data, you will have some kind of ghosting. To add
enough additional current draw to speed the decay of the voltage would
be basically counter productive to half the purpose of switching to
LEDs (lower current draw). And, in the end, since the LED is so fast
to light up, you will still have some ghosting. The end solution is
to tackle it in software by delaying the time in between the switch
from one strobe to the next, which John did in a very slick way!
Slick in the aspect of searching out the old code within just about
any existing WPC game software, and replacing the code (and making it
fit in the existing space) and recalculating the new Checksum so
everything works as if it was done right from the beginning.
RB
TheKorn
news:a8bc65f4-e22f-4976...@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> I'm compressed! :))
>
> This is such a far reaching fix action that could affect thousands
> over the coming years, Bravo!
> I think we should start referring to these mod-ed code versions as
> John Rom version x.x, or Jx.x.....
I would suggest appending an "L" for "LED-patched" to any ROM versions. So
9.05H -> 9.05HL , LX-6 -> LX-6L, etc.
seymour-shabow
>
> I cant tell an electrical circuit from a Map of texas...but how does
> this fix relate to what Jeri ellsworth was working on?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFCJHCQNmaQ
She's changing circuits to have the LED's match the relatively slow ramp
up/shut down 'look' of incandescent bulbs with LEDs. The software fix
is to prevent leds from turning on when they shouldn't. Combining the 2
would make the LEDs seem more like traditional bulbs.
-scott CARGPB#29
Jazman
Jeri is working on a way to make LEDs look more like incandescents.
There is a "warmness" that incandescents have because they turn on
slow (slow being milliseconds) compared to LEDs which turn on fast
(fast being micro-seconds).
The tough part about what Jeri is doing is that it will be costly and
possibly vendor dependent or possibly even within vendor. LED 1 is
not necessarily the same electrically as LED 2. Depending on the
circuit and what LED characteristics it's relying on, this could be
tough.
So, the fix talked about here is for ghosting (defined as dim LED when
it should be off) caused by the software. Ghosting can also be caused
by driver board issues, but a good performing WPC driver board should
not be an issue.
Once again John, awesome work and thanks.
Jaz
Leachdude
Is this the same reason Stern's Whitestars system ghost badly? I have a
TSPP and LOTR that are real bad ghosters.
Chris
JD
No that's because you buy routed garbage. Sheesh, when will you learn? =P
-JD-
Reinhard
>
> The tough part about what Jeri is doing is that it will be costly and
> possibly vendor dependent or possibly even within vendor. LED 1 is
> not necessarily the same electrically as LED 2. Depending on the
> circuit and what LED characteristics it's relying on, this could be
> tough.
>
Plus, for readers that might not realize it, the circuit described by
Jeri would have to be duplicated at each and every intersection of the
lamp matrix (in other words, for each lamp socket). And, she has
already admitted that the circuit, as designed, requires a relatively
large capacitor to store enough power to maintain the fade out
(47ufd). So, if used on a typical 18V lamp matrix, the cap would have
to be a 47ufd at 25 volts which is realtively large physically and
probably would not fit in the base of the LED.
But, her circuit does do exactly what she set out to do.
RB
PKingRoch
I have the exact same issue with my ST:TNG - any chance you might want
to burn another ROM?
Mike
the 1996 timeframe. Probably increased useage of LED's in the matrix
in limited locations? ("bridge out" signs on RS, for instance). Did
they start using LED's and then notice the unintended ramification of
the way the old code was written? Why else would have they gone into
8 year old code and fixed it?
seymour.shabow
> I'm curious what caused WMS to introduce the lamp matrix driver fix in
> the 1996 timeframe. Probably increased useage of LED's in the matrix
> in limited locations? ("bridge out" signs on RS, for instance). Did
> they start using LED's and then notice the unintended ramification of
> the way the old code was written? Why else would have they gone into
> 8 year old code and fixed it?
>
Because someone probably came along and noticed the error, that the
column should be OFF before the next col. is on.
-scott CARGPB#29
frenchy
Mike
But why would anyone even look at this code unless it was suspected
something was wrong? It's just a handful of bytes driving the lamp
matrix, which at the time had apparently been working as designed for
8 years and 100,000+ games produced. Who knows, that same basic lamp
matrix driving code may have remained unchanged since the earliest
systems 3/6/7/etc (the hardware is different with WPC but the basic
concept of switching 8 rows and 8 columns for the matrix is the
same). Do those early games exhibit the same ghosting issue?
It would be interesting to know which production WPC game first had
the fix.
seymour-shabow
Because when WMS hired new programmers, they had them look at the code
to familiarize themselves with it, and someone probably noticed the
timing error. Or, since there's only one CPU on WMS WPC games, I'd
postulate that they ran into timing issues at some point with some a/v
effect they wanted, so they did a code audit and it got caught then.
The code for WMS games has been completely rewritten several times, they
probably did re-use some code from generation to generation, but with
each generation, at a minimum a code audit would have been done then.
-scott CARGPB#29
Jazman
I found a small bug in your code. I was trying to use the -e switch
to add extra delay but you've got a break; misplaced so a -e is also a
-n.
Jaz
case 'e':
extra_delay = 1;
case 'n':
skip_patch = 1;
break;
break;
jh
Thanks.
I'll add it to my list.
Plan is to wait for feedback for a week or so and then make some changes
and do a 1.1 rls.
martin
I'd bet on Scared Stiff - the crate LEDs would have had this problem.
Hans
Any once again, I see something that makes me want to bang my head
against the desk trying to learn assembly language.
I'll add this info to the stuff I want to look into changing on Black
Knight.
-Hans
seymour-shabow
It's actually not that hard if you've had any programming background at
all..... you just have to get started.
What do you want to change in BK??? I always thought that the s/w in it
was just about perfect. (Maybe add an on-pf special instead of only in
multiplayer mode??)
-scott CARGPB#29
Hans
There's very little I'd change about black knight, I'm actually more
interested in getting hold of all the various iterations of the code
and seeing what features were added and removed. I've already found a
couple removed features, but I suspect there were others.
As to things I'd like to change, there are a few but nothing really
huge.
I don't like how you can be on ball 2 or 3, hit the start button, and
it ends the current game to start a new one. I'd like to change it so
that after the first points are registered for player 1 ball 1, it
locks out the start button until it gets back to game over. (then
again, mine has L3 chips on it, not sure if L4 is different there).
The single player special is another thing I was thinking about
wanting to add in. My thought was to add it into the multiball
sequence somehow, if I can find the programming space. There's a few
switch scores that are unused on the playfield but still in the code
and could be removed, and I think that you could also save some space
by simplifying (or removing) the coding for the coin door lockout.
As cool as the bell is, I also wanted to change the solenoid callout a
bit to add a knocker for when you get a free game. Leave everything
else as the bell, but I do want the variety of a knocker too. Should
be a very simple change from one address to another, plus adding in
the hardware of course.
I've done some programming in the past..... mostly basic, pascal and
HTML. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the structure when you
view assembly, and the tutorials I've found online kinda suck. What
I would really like to find is a GOOD viewer/editor program instead of
beating myself senseless with notepad.
-Hans
seymour-shabow
They did not. That's a universal feature of all games until you get
into perhaps late system 11/early wpc where you could set the restart to
never, slow, or instant.
> The single player special is another thing I was thinking about
> wanting to add in. My thought was to add it into the multiball
> sequence somehow, if I can find the programming space. There's a few
> switch scores that are unused on the playfield but still in the code
> and could be removed, and I think that you could also save some space
> by simplifying (or removing) the coding for the coin door lockout.
Is the rom full already? Haven't delved into the WMS games yet, but I
guarantee they're not using the full 64k address space.... just a matter
of finding out what address are already used and figuring out how to
increase it.
>
> As cool as the bell is, I also wanted to change the solenoid callout a
> bit to add a knocker for when you get a free game. Leave everything
> else as the bell, but I do want the variety of a knocker too. Should
> be a very simple change from one address to another, plus adding in
> the hardware of course.
>
You'd be surprised how short most assembly is. Checking for a skill
shot on Lost Vegas is 4 or 5 instructions total..... less than 10 bytes.
> I've done some programming in the past..... mostly basic, pascal and
> HTML. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the structure when you
> view assembly, and the tutorials I've found online kinda suck. What
> I would really like to find is a GOOD viewer/editor program instead of
> beating myself senseless with notepad.
>
I use word pad ;) You probably won't be successful finding a
syntactical highlighter for 6800 assembler (I've never looked.....) but
I bet there's some customizable things out there like notepad++ which
might have config files to do so..... what would you be looking for
though, all data instructions one color, math functions another?
Best thing to do IMO with a new architecture is figure out where the
major components are in memory - displays, dips, lamps, switch matrix,
etc. and then see what code references those locations, giving you the
(gross) function of that code, or at least clues as to what it might be
in reference to. Assuming the code isn't full up, I think all the
changes you'd like to make wouldn't take up more than $100 bytes.
-scott CARGPB#29
Hans
LOL All I'm looking for is to view the hex in a single column.....
0001 0002 0003 etc displayed vertically. All the hex viewers I've
found so far want to do it all in 10 byte rows, which I find
annoying. and DASMx likes to throw all sorts of extra stuff in there
instead of just a straight dump to hex. I don't mind manually
commenting it all, as long as it's in a logical order that makes it
possible to do so.
I just spent another half hour reading an old 6800 programming guide,
and FINALLY figured out what a 3 byte instruction means. They just
couldn't put anything simple in there such as "The first byte is the
instruction and the next two are the data it acts upon". Man, I'm
glad that they finally decided somewhere between then (1976) and now
that the programmers shouldn't write the manuals. Now that I know
what are the commands and what is the data, and how to spot the
differences, I can move over into figuring out how the PIA is
addressed and really start working backward to figure out which
address is what column/row/etc...
-Hans
seymour.shabow
>
> I just spent another half hour reading an old 6800 programming guide,
> and FINALLY figured out what a 3 byte instruction means. They just
> couldn't put anything simple in there such as "The first byte is the
> instruction and the next two are the data it acts upon".
LOL, yeah, I was used to looking at 6502 code from my distant (>20 year)
past, and I only dabbled then, so it took me a while to 'shift gears'
and deal with having 2 accumulators and one index register vs. 1
accumulator and 2 index registers..... plus big endian vs. little
between the 2. But, it's scary how much I can look at a snippet of code
and get some idea as to what's going on.
PIA's addresses are on the schematics.
I agree, the motorola 6800 guide leaves a lot to be desired. The 2
books I use constantly are "Microprocessors and Microcomputers - the
6800 family" by Tocci and laskowski, and "The 6800 microprocessor" by
jack quinn.
It is a PITA to manually run through and correct the dasmx disassembly
errors, but I think it's more of a pain to just read the hex dumps.
Although, you will learn most of the opcodes quickly.....
If it's anything like bally/stern there's jumptables in the rom for the
switch matrix you can look for..... that can also give you a clue as to
the main loop in the game.
-scott CARGPB#29
jh
Hans,
I've never used it but here's a vintage cpu IDE:
http://www.rainbowide.com/
The pinmame debugger is a invaluable tool.
Look at the pinmame system7 specific source code to get an
idea of of how the hardware is mapped and used.
A great getting started guide (although WPC specific) is:
http://www.maddes.net/pinball/wpc_debugging.htm
John
David Gersic
> I've done some programming in the past..... mostly basic, pascal and
> HTML. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the structure when you
> view assembly, and the tutorials I've found online kinda suck. What
Pascal and HTML won't help you. To learn assembly, you have to learn to
think the way the computer does.
> I would really like to find is a GOOD viewer/editor program instead of
> beating myself senseless with notepad.
Google for "programmers editor".
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Stack corrupt! News at 0xB... |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |
Hans
pinball.com> wrote:
Oh, trust me,I know I'm just taking baby steps right now. I've never
really dealt with anything so primal before when it comes to
programming. I may be lost so far (though rapidly improving), but
I'm definitely not afraid to get my hands dirty on it.
Thanks for the suggestion on what to google for, it really comes up
with some great links right from the start. I was trying various
iterations of hex editor or binary editor, but wasn't quite getting
what I wanted. Now if I could only find my notes that I had written
about which ROM used what start address..... and Jess Askey is in the
middle of moving, thus his site is down, and I left my thumbdrive at
work. No biggie.
Thanks for the pointers to get started guys. I have a feeling that
the programming will be the easy part, and getting permission from
Williams to distribute anything I come up with will be the bigger
issue.
-Hans
Brian36000
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
I can't wait to try this on my Funhouse, which I recently converted to
LEDs.
Since I run linux, I went in your src directory and ran 'make' which
compiled perfectly. But when I went to run the program on my ROM, I
got the error below. Running your windows version under wine seemed
to patch the file file, though. My machine is Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit.
$ src/wpclp FUNH_L9.ROM FUNH_L9-LED.ROM
==============================================================
*** WPC / WPC95 Lamp Matrix Driver Rom patcher ***
version 1.0
(c) John Honeycutt, http://emmytech.com/arcade
(snip)
This program will update the lamp matrix driver code for WPC &
WPC95 game roms to eliminate 'ghosting' when using LEDs
==============================================================
Error: ROM Validation Failed.
Rom Info
--------
File: FUNH_L9.ROM
Size: 2 M-bits (256K-Bytes)
Checksum INVALID: Expected 0938 Calculated 3809
---------------------------
When run under wine, here's the relevant output:
Rom Info
--------
File: FUNH_L9.ROM
Size: 2 M-bits (256K-Bytes)
Checksum Valid: 3809
System Version: 2.46
Game Version (Old format): L-9
System ROM Offset: 00038000
---------------------------
Patching Lamp Matrix Driver...
FOUND Lamp Driver Signature at address 0x0003d4cf
Done
(snip)
Rom Info
--------
File: FUNH_L9.ROM
Size: 2 M-bits (256K-Bytes)
Checksum Valid: 3b09
System Version: 2.46
Game Version (Old format): L-9
System ROM Offset: 00038000
---------------------------
Done.
Again thanks for this excellent utility! As soon as I can source a
blank EPROM or an EEPROM for my Funhouse, I'll try it and report back.
Jazman
The more relevant question that what OS you're running is what
compiler you used to build it. I can't see any reason why it
shouldn't run in Linux (but I only did a 10 minute look at the code).
So, my best guess is that it's a compiler issue.
Jaz
jh
<snip>
>
> Since I run linux, I went in your src directory and ran 'make' which
> compiled perfectly. But when I went to run the program on my ROM, I
> got the error below. Running your windows version under wine seemed
> to patch the file file, though. My machine is Ubuntu 10.04 64-bit.
>
> $ src/wpclp FUNH_L9.ROM FUNH_L9-LED.ROM
> ==============================================================
> *** WPC / WPC95 Lamp Matrix Driver Rom patcher ***
> version 1.0
> (c) John Honeycutt, http://emmytech.com/arcade
> (snip)
> This program will update the lamp matrix driver code for WPC&
> WPC95 game roms to eliminate 'ghosting' when using LEDs
> ==============================================================
>
> Error: ROM Validation Failed.
> Rom Info
> --------
> File: FUNH_L9.ROM
> Size: 2 M-bits (256K-Bytes)
> Checksum INVALID: Expected 0938 Calculated 3809
> ---------------------------
Bryan,
The endianness of the checksum is wrong.
Looks like I made a bad assumption that the __i386 macro would
be set for all x86 build environments.
I'm sending you an email with a command to run to dump your build
environment. Should be an easy fix.
Thanks...
spike
Thanks a bundle for your hard work and generous sharing with the
pinball community. I like the look of leds in inserts but cannot
handle the ghosting and flickering that on some of the pins I've seen
makes them very hard to play and difficult to see the ball with the
strobing effect.
Seems from early feedback that your clever code really 'Does what it
says on the tin' and you should be given a CARGP membership for this
work :-)
I have linked to this discussion and your site on the ukpinball group,
hope that's OK!
One question: if this patch is fitted, does it affect the ordinary
incandescent bulbs in any way, in the case where a game is only partly
led - e.g. jus the inserts, or indeed if a future owner removes the
leds and refits incadesents - will this change how they illuminate, or
it the 'fix' exactly that, and just eliminates an on/off bug in the
code?
Cheers
Spike
Nottingham, England
jh
> John
> Thanks a bundle for your hard work and generous sharing with the
> pinball community. I like the look of leds in inserts but cannot
> handle the ghosting and flickering that on some of the pins I've seen
> makes them very hard to play and difficult to see the ball with the
> strobing effect.
>
I've only noticed flickering on GI leds which the patch does not address.
I know some people claim to be able to see 62Hz flicker for leds
in inserts.(62 Hz is the lamp matrix refresh rate.) I can't see it
myself though. If you are a person that can see this then the patch will
not help. The only way I know of to address that is to wait for
one of the new power/driver boards that have hardware with special logic
for leds that are supposed to be coming out soon.
> Seems from early feedback that your clever code really 'Does what it
> says on the tin' and you should be given a CARGP membership for this
> work :-)
>
> I have linked to this discussion and your site on the ukpinball group,
> hope that's OK!
Thanks!
>
> One question: if this patch is fitted, does it affect the ordinary
> incandescent bulbs in any way, in the case where a game is only partly
> led - e.g. jus the inserts, or indeed if a future owner removes the
> leds and refits incadesents - will this change how they illuminate, or
> it the 'fix' exactly that, and just eliminates an on/off bug in the
> code?
>
There should be no effect on incandescent bulbs. Well actually
everything will be something like 2% dimmer.
John...
Hans
> On 6/20/2010 9:43 AM, spike wrote:> John
> > Thanks a bundle for your hard work and generous sharing with the
> > pinball community. I like the look of leds in inserts but cannot
> > handle the ghosting and flickering that on some of the pins I've seen
> > makes them very hard to play and difficult to see the ball with the
> > strobing effect.
>
> Other possible hardware issues aside, the patch should fix the ghosting.
> I've only noticed flickering on GI leds which the patch does not address.
> I know some people claim to be able to see 62Hz flicker for leds
> in inserts.(62 Hz is the lamp matrix refresh rate.) I can't see it
> myself though. If you are a person that can see this then the patch will
> not help. The only way I know of to address that is to wait for
> one of the new power/driver boards that have hardware with special logic
> for leds that are supposed to be coming out soon.
>
As John mentioned, this fix won't solve the flickering at all, as it's
caused by a totally different issue. I don't know the WPC system
enough yet to even discuss the insert flickering except to ask
questions..... but GI flickering is a beast I understand!!!
GI flickering is caused by that circuit driving the lamps with an AC
power supply instead of a DC power supply. Older pinball LED's
(called Polarized LED's) were essentially just a plain LED with
resistor on it. When the AC current flowed one way, it illuminated
the LED. When it flowed the other way, being that an LED is a diode,
it blocked the current and did not illuminate. So, automatically,
the LED was OFF for half the time at a rate of around 50-60hz
depending on what's coming out of your wall socket. And if you're in
Europe, where the wall sockets are at 50hz, it will be much more
noticable than here in the USA with our 60hz power. And since AC power
is a sine wave, not a square wave, you don't have enough voltage
during the time that it's still building up and when when it's
dropping down again after the crest. Figure that in, and you're LED
is on for MAYBE 20% of the time. At the time, AC power was the
correct choice as incandescent lamps last longer with AC power, and
LED's weren't really even worth considering until somewhat recently
when brighter designs started appearing.
The NON-polarized LED's out there now have an integrated bridge
rectifier in them, which converts the LED supply to DC power, right in
the housing. It's still got a waveform to it, but now it's all flowing
the correct direction to power the LED and has peaks twice as often.
This means it's still actually blinking, but twice as fast as before
at 100-120hz now, which you will not notice at all. I know for a fact
that Cointaker's LED's have a rectifier, as I've cracked one open to
check. The NoFlix PLUS LED's also add a smoothing capacitor to each
LED, which will reduce those low-voltage valleys and keep it powered
much more constantly. Note: I'd LOVE to test the NoFlix Plus bulbs
personally, but I just can't justify the shipping cost. I think the
design, on paper, looks great..... I would like to see how well it's
implemented in an actual LED package.
Another fix, if you really want to get fancy or don't want to replace
an existing set of older polarized LED's, is to add a bridge rectifier
that covers the whole GI circuit and just feed everything DC power the
whole time. Thow in a sufficient capacitor, to smooth out the
waveform, and you'll never see a GI LED flicker, ever. This is what
the "LED Friendly" power supply boards do for you..... and this is
another thing that's on my wishlist is the Pinscore power supply, as
they also incorporate a PWM dimmer circuit for the LED's, which is a
very nice touch. Though I will wait until I also replace my displays
too, and get the matching power supply without the +/- 100v circuit.
I'd also love to see a schematic for their supply too, I'm just a
geek like that.
-Hans
spike
of development for pins, and if STERN are still cranking out games in
2012 (hope so) I think their new 'TRON Trilogy' Pinball ;-) will
feature full led lighting as well as a small lcd panel for scoring and
film clips.
Spike
Nottingham, England
jh
Unless I've screwed something up this should be the final release.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
John
http://emmytech.com/arcade/led_ghost_busting/index.html
Revision 1.1
-Fix little endian x86 macro check for linux 64-bit OS's.
Code wasn't properly defining hton(x) / ntoh(x) macros for 64-bit os.
-Fix command line -e option parsing.
-Add support for early driver code.
This appears to apply to ROMs whose last update was in the 1st half
of 1992 or earlier. Code refers to these driver variants as 1A,
1B, & 1C. Games with this early driver code include HD L-3,
Hurricane L-2, PZ F-4, BoP L-6.
Rommel
whiched showed noticable ghosting. With the patch, the ghosting has
disappeared. I patched the L-7 software.
Interestingly, however, although I changed the software to revision
G-2, at boot-up the software shows L-2. It's therefore updated the 7
(to a 2) but not the L (to a G).
Is there a work-around for this?
Thanks!
R
jh
Hummm....
I'll look into this in the next day or two.
jh
and changed the rev to G-2.
Testing in pinmame everything worked fine. ie: Shows G-2 on power on and
when entering service menu.
Is your machine configured for non-USA options or something.
If you can send me an email with the original rom and the patched rom
attached that might help.
John
Rommel
> Is your machine configured for non-USA options or something.
> If you can send me an email with the original rom and the patched rom
> attached that might help.
Hi John,
I was working on it in parallel. Your patcher patches the english
version only. I had to manually change the German (and French) code.
It now shows the version number correctly.
Incidentally, could you update your programme in a future revision to
check to see whether a file has already been patched? Currently, if
you run the programme on patched code, you get an error report. It
would be great if it said "Already patched" instead.
Great work though. Using your Force Checksum I've been able to correct
the German text at long last!
Keep up the excellent work and thanks so much!
R
Gore Daimon
firepower
Sam
well.
Sam
Brian36000
> I've released version 1.1 of the program.
> Unless I've screwed something up this should be the final release.
> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> John
>
> http://emmytech.com/arcade/led_ghost_busting/index.html
>
> Revision 1.1
> -Fix little endian x86 macro check for linux 64-bit OS's.
> Code wasn't properly defining hton(x) / ntoh(x) macros for 64-bit os.
> -Fix command line -e option parsing.
> -Add support for early driver code.
> This appears to apply to ROMs whose last update was in the 1st half
> of 1992 or earlier. Code refers to these driver variants as 1A,
> 1B, & 1C. Games with this early driver code include HD L-3,
> Hurricane L-2, PZ F-4, BoP L-6.
>
John,
Tested on Ubuntu 64-bit with a Funhouse L-9 ROM and my ghosting went
away! Thanks a million!
-Brian
kse
patched ROM for CFTBL. Is anyone offering these for sale yet? I've
emailed a couple of the sites that offer ROMs for sale, but have not
received any responses as of yet.
Thanks,
Kyle
Borygard
I can't imagine John wouldn't be able to get one out to you.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
"kse" <ert...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c75a47f2-587a-42ff...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
kse
anything back yet from my email sent a few days ago. I'll give it a
few more days and see what happens - I was just curious if anyone knew
of someone who was definitely selling them now.
Thanks,
Kyle
Chad H
Captain Neo
raddroxx
ROCKZ!!!
Gore Daimon
Do you know if it's possible do to the same for capcom pinballs? I
have one here, an Airborne, and I have an eprom programmer too, if you
have interest.
Thanks and congratulations for the solution!
Gore Daimon
Brazil
Retrogameconnection
> I like messing around with LEDs but ghosting drives me crazy.
> I've written a program that will back-patch the updated WPC Lamp matrix
> driver to earlier roms that have the old driver code.
> My Creature is now Ghost free!
>
> Notes:
> -This program applies to WPC Pins produced between 1989 & 1995 for
> which Williams never released a new rom with updated lamp matrix
> driver code.
>
> -Will this program eliminate LED ghosting on all WPC pins that that
> have the problem?
> Probably not. There appear to be other hardware issues that can cause
> LED ghosting other than how the software driver controls the matrix.
> However, I think it should resolve the problem in most instances.
>
> -How do I know if a rom already has the updated driver?
> Just run the program on it. It will tell you if the updated driver is
> already there.
>
> -Have you tested this for all games?
> No. I've tested with about 6 different games using pinmame.
> My CFTBL is now running an updated ROM.
> If the program has a problem patching a ROM it will display a
> message with what information to send me. I'll take a look at it and
> update the program if feasible.
>
> -This patch will NOT help GI LED lighting flicker.
Awesome !
Let me guess. Wayne shut you down, right ?
Thanks Wayne! You contributions to the hobby are tremendous.
Can somebody email me the patching program, please? I want to update
my HS2, STTNG & TOM. Apparently, it is no longer available on the
website.
Thanks
Steve
winslow _AT_ earthlink.net
nikki2beeps
If an email is going out could you forward me a copy as well I need to
patch TAF,
DugFreez
>
> Let me guess. Wayne shut you down, right ?
>
> Thanks Wayne! You contributions to the hobby are tremendous.
>
> Can somebody email me the patching program, please? I want to update
> my HS2, STTNG & TOM. Apparently, it is no longer available on the
> website.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
> winslow _AT_ earthlink.net
Wayne, nor anyone else should be able to pull a patching program or
even have a right to ask to pull the program. It's a stand alone
program. The ROM copyright holder could pull the ROMs or the patched
ROMs if they were posted but they should have no control over a
program that someone has written on their own. If actual WPC code was
used to make the patching program...that may be another story, but if
the patching program is a stand alone program that only modifies
code...they have no right to say if it can be posted or not. Some
simple ROM / Emulation legality searches will show this to be true.
I sure hope someone grabbed the 1.1 before it was pulled and can help
others out. Under the radar, if need be. Someone should post it up on
a anonymous binary newsgroup for everyone to enjoy. Once it's
there...it's there. No pulling it then (good luck with that one
Wayne). It will stay as long as the news servers retain it (1 year+
and then someone could anonymously re-post it). Asking to pull a
program like this is the lamest of the lame. jh had already stated
that he refused any donations and was just doing it for other to
enjoy.
themadman
Funhouse and HS2.
Thanks in advance for the e-mail!
ImpalaGuy
program as long as it didn't use any of Williams' code. The patch
program isn't Williams' IP -- it's yours. I'd like to hear more
details if you feel comfortable posting it.
taylor34
version of this program? I'd really appreciate it. :) I had no idea
it was going to be taken down, bummer. Awesome work btw.
Jazman
For reference for those finding this in a future search, if you find
yourself in need of this, just post a request for it and someone will
help you out.
Jaz
DugFreez
I would like a copy of this program also. Thank You.
Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic
Thanks,
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
On Jul 13, 3:01 pm, Jazman <cartra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
pinball brian
For reference for those finding this in a future search, if you find
> yourself in need of this, just post a request for it and someone will
> help you out.
>
> Jaz
I'd like to play with it as well and missed it before it was
removed. Would appreciate a copy.
I also don't see how this can be infringing, unless it contains
within it significant excerpts from later rom(s) in order to patch in
code from that later rom to earlier ones, in which case a solution may
be to require an old (to be patched) and a new rom (with the updated
code) be present and have the patcher operate on both...
Thanks
PinballGeek
mind shooting it my way. Thanks!
Robert
On Jul 13, 2:01 pm, Jazman <cartra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
John H
<snip>
>
> Let me guess. Wayne shut you down, right ?
>
My position was and remains that the program is not a copyright
infringement. ie: "Fair Use" here in the states etc...
If I didn't believe this I never would have made it public.
However, I have no desire to debate the issue with him or more
importantly aggravate what is already a sensitive issue in the community.
So I removed the program from my website.
The whole point of publishing the website and providing an easy to use
program was to help people with an issue that I myself found very
aggravating.
This is a very helpful community. I feel comfortable folks will help
each other out.
John
Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic
to those other folks too ;-)
On the "fair use" side, the argument that would be raised is that you
have written a program that creates a "derivative work" of the
software (contained in the ROM image). While Galoob managed to
convince a court that their Game Genie system did not fall into the
area of derivative works, those familiar with the laws have argued
that ROM patchers do create derivative works. Folks have resorted to
binary patchers like IPS to skirt around the derivative work issue,
but there are opinions that those too fall into the derivative work
area.
My personal opinion, which counts for nothing, is that you've made a
significant contribution to the longevity of the pinball collecting
hobby, which can only benefit those who license the IP in order to
produce reproduction parts. That and a quarter will buy you a
telephone call here ...
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
jkoolpe
Ditto...I just found out about this patch through word of mouth at the
California Extreme show, and could sure use it for my ST:TNG and
TZ :). If possible, please send the program to me...I have a burner
at the ready.
Thanks in advance, and thanks to the person who developed it! I love
the LEDs, but I had to remove many of them due to the ghosting issue.
Jon
Cobra99
> On Jun 20, 4:02 pm, jh <johnh....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6/20/2010 9:43 AM, spike wrote:> John
> > > Thanks a bundle for your hard work and generous sharing with the
> > > pinball community. I like the look of leds in inserts but cannot
> > > handle the ghosting and flickering that on some of the pins I've seen
> > > makes them very hard to play and difficult to see the ball with the
> > > strobing effect.
>
> > Other possible hardware issues aside, the patch should fix the ghosting.
> > I've only noticed flickering on GI leds which the patch does not address.
> > I know some people claim to be able to see 62Hz flicker for leds
> > in inserts.(62 Hz is the lamp matrix refresh rate.) I can't see it
> > myself though. If you are a person that can see this then the patch will
> > not help. The only way I know of to address that is to wait for
> > one of the new power/driver boards that have hardware with special logic
> > for leds that are supposed to be coming out soon.
>
> As John mentioned, this fix won't solve the flickering at all, as it's
> caused by a totally different issue. I don't know the WPC system
> enough yet to even discuss the insert flickering except to ask
> questions..... but GI flickering is a beast I understand!!!
>
> GI flickering is caused by that circuit driving the lamps with an AC
> power supply instead of a DC power supply. Older pinballLED's
> (called PolarizedLED's) were essentially just a plainLEDwith
> resistor on it. When the AC current flowed one way, it illuminated
> theLED. When it flowed the other way, being that anLEDis a diode,
> it blocked the current and did not illuminate. So, automatically,
> theLEDwas OFF for half the time at a rate of around 50-60hz
> depending on what's coming out of your wall socket. And if you're in
> Europe, where the wall sockets are at 50hz, it will be much more
> noticable than here in the USA with our 60hz power. And since AC power
> is a sine wave, not a square wave, you don't have enough voltage
> during the time that it's still building up and when when it's
> dropping down again after the crest. Figure that in, and you'reLED
> is on for MAYBE 20% of the time. At the time, AC power was the
> correct choice as incandescent lamps last longer with AC power, andLED'sweren't really even worth considering until somewhat recently
> when brighter designs started appearing.
>
> The NON-polarizedLED'sout there now have an integrated bridge
> rectifier in them, which converts theLEDsupply to DC power, right in
> the housing. It's still got a waveform to it, but now it's all flowing
> the correct direction to power theLEDand has peaks twice as often.
> This means it's still actually blinking, but twice as fast as before
> at 100-120hz now, which you will not notice at all. I know for a fact
> that Cointaker'sLED'shave a rectifier, as I've cracked one open to
> check. The NoFlix PLUSLED'salso add a smoothing capacitor to eachLED, which will reduce those low-voltage valleys and keep it powered
> much more constantly. Note: I'd LOVE to test the NoFlix Plus bulbs
> personally, but I just can't justify the shipping cost. I think the
> design, on paper, looks great..... I would like to see how well it's
> implemented in an actualLEDpackage.
>
> Another fix, if you really want to get fancy or don't want to replace
> an existing set of older polarizedLED's, is to add a bridge rectifier
> that covers the whole GI circuit and just feed everything DC power the
> whole time. Thow in a sufficient capacitor, to smooth out the
> waveform, and you'll never see a GILEDflicker, ever. This is what
> the "LEDFriendly" power supply boards do for you..... and this is
> another thing that's on my wishlist is the Pinscore power supply, as
> they also incorporate a PWM dimmer circuit for theLED's, which is a
> very nice touch. Though I will wait until I also replace my displays
> too, and get the matching power supply without the +/- 100v circuit.
> I'd also love to see a schematic for their supply too, I'm just a
> geek like that.
>
> -Hans- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can someone send me this?
Dave2084
tool :-)
Can someone send me latest version please?
Thanks!
C.Igar
thank you!
websherpa
discreetly as well, thank you!
Flynnbig5
> I would be thankful to receive a copy of the patcher from someone
> discreetly as well, thank you!
If anyone could forward me a copy, I would love to experience this
first hand.
Thanks for your efforts, John!
Don
Gore Daimon
I have a lot of wpc pins to mod with leds. If anyone could forward me
a copy, I appreciate!
goredaimon at ig dot com dot br
Thanks!
Jeff S
JeffS
ATL
SFEastBayDave
job!
Thanks!
David
Jazman
I know I don't have time to keep checking this thread all the time.
If anyone is still looking for this, I suggest you drop an email...
toibs
would also be interested in a copy if anyone has one going...
Many thx
Paul
psk445
machine.slave
Why am I not surprised Wayne stuck his nose in this one.. tell him to
go f%&k a goat. OR better yet.. go polish his trophy ;)
http://tinyurl.com/2e3kgx3
Keroppi
Put me on the list too, please.
JetfireMike
I know it's old but I'd like this too and would only use for personal
use on BoP.
mike at sweetser dot info
Thx!
--
JetfireMike
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
Inkochnito
It may take a bit searching.
Peter
www.inkochnito.nl
"JetfireMike" <mi...@sweetser.info> schreef in bericht
news:JetfireMi...@gmail.com...