Meteor project problems?

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

Hi guys,

Well Meteor is my next pin project and I'm already at an impass. It
was sitting for about 8 years in a guys garage when I got it. It was
actually pretty nice with minor corrosion from the battery localized
around U8 (5101). After I did the visual I cleaned it out and order a
few new parts to start fresh. So I just recieved a new rectifier board
and a battery corrosion kit, u1,u2,u5 and u6 roms and a 5101 chip/
socket. So I thought I would begin today. hmm

Before I did anything i was getting the test flashes and a
corrisponding chime on the MPU board which indicated I had problems
with my 5101 chip at u8. Makes sense because there was battery
corrosion in that area. First though I replaced the old burned up
rectifier and put in the new. Great, works fine and still have the
flash.

Next I removed the old 5101 chip/socket, totally cleaned away any
parts which were corroded. I replaced the few pieces I needed to and
put in the new 5101 chip. Turned it on and now my LED is on all the
time. Uh oh. I checked it over a few times to make sure all the parts
were the right ones and they are. I even put the old 5101 in and still
the light stayed on. No more flashing and just a minor hum from the
speaker. I've put in the new roms I have with no change. All the test
point voltages check out fine. I'm considering putting in the old
rectifier to see what happens? I'm goind to go through all the
recomendations on the pinrepair site but if you guys have had this
happen to yourselves and have some advice or know what I should look
at/replace then jump right in and let me know. I was hoping to have
this up and running this weekend because it will be awhile before I
can sit down and work on it again.

I'm wondering if the problem could have occured due to the heat from
the soldering iron? I believe its 35w and its what I use on most of my
projects. I removed the chip from the new socket and checked the
socket for continuity on all points and that also seems fine. What the
heck did I do or did it simply move onto the next problem after I
replace the 5101? To me that doesn't make any sense because I thought
the mpu does the flicker before it begins anything.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Mike

[Chester Pete]

When you put the new roms in, did you check that the jumpers are OK?

<mike....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1172903282....@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

I've read about the jumpers on other sites but I'm having a hard time
making out the locations on my schematics because of the tiny
righting. I basically removed the old and put in the new roms but
only after I lost the flashing LED. It stopped flashing only after I
put in the new 5101 chip and socket. I'm also not sure if the
previous owner tried to fix it so in that case he may have missed
something also.

My manual says the jumpers are in bold in the schematic but I can't
make them out:

8K E-prom (2716 intel) Jumper Combinations

e2-e3
e5-e7
e9-e10
e13-e14
e16-e18
e19-e21
e23-e25
e27-e28
e29-e30
e32-e33
e34-e35

So how does this change when I'm just swapping out chips?

WAIT! I think I just figured out why your asking. The jumpers will
change because I've gone from the old non-programable roms at u1,u2,u5
and u6 to the programable 2716 type. So those combinations above will
not match the jumpers shown in the schematics which is exactly the
case. eg: When it say jumpers should be e2-e3 with the 2716 rom my
schematic and mpu actually have it at e2 to e6. Is that what your
talking about? So I would have to change "ALL" of those jumpers
listed above right?

I'm still not 100% sure why this all happened only when I changed the
5101 socket and chip. I didn't touch the roms until after but I'll
change all those jumpers and see what happens.

Mike

[Dallas Overturf]

Try the below jumpers unless someone knows better for 2716 chips in an
mpu200 and clocked as an mpu200.
Your's stated E29-E30 which is I believe wrong (try E29-31). AND if you
look at the mpu200 schematics
there appears to be a conflict between the bold line and the chart below on
the schematics regarding this jumper.
I'm pretty certain this is the proper jumpering as I show below...
Regards, Dallas...

U1 2716 PROM
U2 2716 PROM
U5 2716 PROM
U6 2716 PROM

2-3, 5-7, 9-10, 13-14, 16-18, 19-21, 23-25, 27-28, 29-31, 32-33, 34-35

JUMPER CONNECTIONS 36, 37, 38 ARE NOT CONNECTED.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Home Page: www.geocities.com/d_overturf
Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address
dallas.ove...@verizon.net
REMOVE NOSPAM from the reply address.

----------

<mike....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1172930598.2...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

Ok, I do see what your saying. My chart on the diagram shows e29-e30
when using the 2716 chip. The diagram shows e29 jumpered to e31 using
the original non-programable chips. Here is the current jumper
(original factory setup) locations compared to the changed jumpers
when using the 2716 chip:

Original with new 2716 chips
e2-e6 e2-e3
e1-e5 e5-e7
e8-e9 e9-e10
e12-e13 e13-e14
e16-e18 e16-e18 (no change I guess?)
e19-e20 e19-e21
e22-e25 e23-e25
e26-e28 e27-e28
e29 - e31 e29-e30
e32-e33 e32-e33 no change?
e34-e35 e34-e35 no change?

e36 e37 e38 are not jumpered

Is this how yours is jumpered or is your mpu different? If you
replace only one Rom chip you wouldn't have to change all the jumpers
right, only the ones effected by that rom correct? I assume I would
have to change all of the jumpers because I am going to/have replaced
all of the ROMS at u1, u2 , u5 and u6.

Thanks, Mike

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

I also have this up on Klov.com and am posting responses from there to
here and here to there in order to keep the info I gather complete for
those in the future who search. Here is a response from Klov:

If you lost your flashes before you swapped roms, forget about your
roms for a few minutes and let's look at some other things.

Check for voltage on the MPU board TP5. It needs to be right around 5
vdc (+/- .2). If it's not, then go back to your rectifier/power supply
circuits. You know the +12vdc is present because the LED is lit, but
check it at TP3 just to ensure it isn't low enough to cause problems
(but high enough to light the led).

Now, the 5101 shouldn't cause the MPU to not start the boot cycle, so
the next thing to look at is the reset circuit. It's right there by
the 5101 and it's likely that it also has/had battery damage and was
marginal to begin with. In the process of replacing the 5101 something
could have finished it off. If the reset circuit is dead the board
will never boot/start the flash sequence. With a DMM test pin 40 of
the CPU (U9), it should be around 5 vdc, if not your reset circuit
died.

Once the reset circuit is verified working/repaired, go ahead and
jumper the MPU board for the roms/make sure it's correct, or if you
still have the original roms, pop them back in and use those until you
get the other bugs out of the board.

Two sections of reading relative to your issues:

The reset section and getting the board to boot -
http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index2.htm#flash

Jumpering the board for different rom types -
http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index2.htm#roms

Good luck!
D

[Snux]

Just an idea - are you trying out the board on a test bench with a PC
power supply? If not, ignore this post. If you are, many PC power
supplies don't switch on quick enough and the Stern boards just sit
there staring at you with their one red eye.

If you do use a power supply on the bench, leave the supply on and
just switch the power on and off by connecting or removing the ground
connector.

I scratched my head on this problem for a few hours a while back.
Turned out the board was actually fine and I didn't need to replace
the half dozen components I'd worked through.

Mark

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

Ok Mark, thanks for the info. I actually built a new power base ready
to instal in a jamma cab with a switching power supply that I'm going
to use. I've been pulling the pcb in and out of the back box for all
the previous tests.

I also just installed a new big cap so hopefully that will take care
of any irregular voltages if there were any. I tried to get a DMM
today but got my car stuck in the driveway in 2feet of snow off to one
side. By the time I got it out stores were closed so I'll get to it
again tommorrow in the AM

Thanks ,

Mike

[mike....@sympatico.ca]

I managed to pick up a nice little DMM today for $40 at the SOURCE in
town. So I started to check values. Check it out and let me know what
you think. Take a good look at TP3 of the solenoid driver board. I
think something is wrong there.

I also tested the reset circuit by jumpering pin 39 and 40 of U9 and
nothing except a small buzz in the speaker. I checked the voltages at
pin 40 and they were 5.48 with power on and initially at start up it
would spike to 8.4vdc for less than a second. I also checked pin 2 on
U9 and it was at 5.21 volts. So do those values indicate the reset
circuit is good? If it is perhaps the voltages listed below could be
the culprit. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Before I list the voltages though I did a couple other things which I
thought need to be done anyway:
: Ran 18awg wire for gnd from MPU mounting screw above TP4 gnd to each
board and then down to the ground strap of the back box. Good gnd
continuity now.
: installed a new cap at c23 of the solenoid driver board
: Installed a new rectifier board (you new this already)
: put in original roms to match current jumpers on pcb.

So onto the voltages. Here are the voltages I should have on each
board according the the pinrepair website and next to each is the
voltage value I have: Oh and my values were take with the connectors
attached on the rectifier board.

Test Points.

Rectifier Power Supply Board:
TP1 = +5.4 vdc (AS2518-18 version), +6.5 vdc (AS2518-49 & -54
versions) feature lamps. 6.07
TP2 = +230 vdc (score displays) with connector J3 attached, 150 vdc
with J3 disconnected. 234
TP3 = +13 to 16.5 vdc with connector J3 disconnect, +12 to 14 vdc with
J3 connected. This voltage will become the +5 regulated
voltage. 14.67
TP4 = 5.7 to 7.3 volts AC (general illumination) 6.54
TP5 = +43 vdc (solenoid voltage) 44.5
GND = Ground

MPU board:

TP1 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc 5.24
TP2 = +12 to 14 vdc 14.58
TP3 = +21.5 vdc (comes from +43 vdc solenoid voltage).
22.36
TP4 = Ground
TP5 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc 5.29

Solenoid Driver/Voltage Regulator board:

TP1 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc 5.34
TP2 = +190 vdc (but often turned down to 170 volts to increase score
display life). 184.3
TP3 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc .612 ?? bad wire??
TP4 = +230 vdc 237.8
TP5 = +12 vdc to 16.5 vdc 14.53
Note if TP2 and TP4 are both 230 vdc, then the High Voltage portion of
the solenoid driver board is not working and needs to be repaired.

If you think some of the voltages are a little high on the MPU, how
would I tone them down a little? Also whats going on the TP3 of the
Solenoid Drive board? I'm not even getting 1 volt and am wondering if
I have a bad wire, perhaps at the rectifier when I rewired it.

Hopefully I'm not boring you all with all of the voltage readings but
I thought I would be thorough. And if your like me I don't find it
boring at all. Problem solving keeps the mind sharp so hopefully with
everyones help we can figure it out.

So if you have any observations or an opinion that might help me
figure this out than please "jump in".

Thanks, Mike