The Law of EM relays...

[Barry]

You trouble shoot and trouble shoot, you add jumpers, you push relays
manually and you finally identify the problem relay with the problem
contacts.

But the law of EM relays kicks in. You can't even see the relay, and
have to remove the playfield. The relay is way in the back on the
bottom mech board.
The only way you can see this relay, even with the playfield removed, is
to crawl through the coin door and lay on your belly on top of the mech
board. So since you don't fit through the coin door, and since you are
not a circus contortionist, you realize you actually have to unscrew the
mech board to move it towards the front of the machine to access the
problem relay with the problem contacts.

Then you hope this is the "final solution." Such is the law of EM
relays.

I am sure there are laws governing EM relay troubleshooting to add to
this one.


--
Barry
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[scotts...@gmail.com]

Excellent -

-Scott

[Pat in PA]

On Jul 14, 10:44 pm, scottsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
> Excellent -
>
> -Scott


Sounds like a Bally to me . . .
Pat

[William Brower]

Can't be a Gottlieb, I've never had problems with the upper relays in
the bottom cabinet.

Nice story Barry, the part about servicing the machine through the
coin door made me laugh and reminded me of another RGPer that thought
you had to repair the machine through the coin door...building ships
in bottles came to mind :). The service techs would need to be real
small to service the machines...lol

Bill

[rly...@carolina.rr.com]

Another law of EM relays is that all the wires start off at the switches
color coded to make it easier for you to trace them.... and then they
all turn the exact same shade of DIRTY WHITE as soon as they get about a
quarter inch away from said switches.


--
RLy...@carolina.rr.com

[CEG]

since you have to remove the PF just a couple more screws and jones
plugs you can take out the relay board to get to that relay easily

Chas

[seymour.shabow]

Why didn't you just remove the bottom mech panel and put it up on the
siderails crossways like most people do?

[Frank Furhter]

RLy...@carolina.rr.com wrote:
> Another law of EM relays is that all the wires start off at the switches
> color coded to make it easier for you to trace them.... and then they
> all turn the exact same shade of DIRTY WHITE as soon as they get about a
> quarter inch away from said switches.
>
>

This could be condensed to get a schem, or a clue to where to look for
the switch/relay in line and have no problem finding the wire of color
in question.

[Barry]

What we have is a Williams Derby Day. A score drum/reel 10's problem
with player 1. Player 2 is OK.

A single normally closed contact in a m/b switch in series circuit. A
two minute contact cleaning/adjust relay problem made into a one hour
hour problem because the relay with a bunch of make/break contacts is
inaccessible.

It's bad enough to remove three "jones" plugs for the playfield, but to
remove the mech board "jones" plug in the head - easy, but to replace,
very difficult as it is a problem by itself. Putting the "jones" plugs
back for the playfield is a chore in itself. Why the heads of the
playfield jones plugs on mech board are reversed I can't fathom the
reason.

Sure you can pull the mech board, two screws, and a cherry picker to
lift the mech board out. It just is that the problem contacts will be
always on a relay that will be the most inaccessible of them all.

If you don't have a Williams, Bally and Chicago Coin EM machine in your
present or past you really can't appreciate a quality EM. Everyone
agrees there is a quality difference between Gottlieb EMs and all of the
other EMs. Unfortunately the comparison quickly reverses with SS
design, so don't be a Gottlieb EM snob :-)

My scoring problem is resolved, the game is playing all the way - even
the horses run for the finish line and reset as they are supposed to.


--
Barry

[Terry Cumming]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:42:17 AM UTC-4, Ron Lyons wrote:
> Another law of EM relays is that all the wires start off at the switches
> color coded to make it easier for you to trace them.... and then they
> all turn the exact same shade of DIRTY WHITE as soon as they get about a
> quarter inch away from said switches.

Exactly. And you will need to trace two wires and they will be marked in the schematic as gray with a white tracer, and white with a gray tracer.

Too bad they couldn't have used neon colors back then.

Terry Cumming

[William Brower]

Since I'm the only one that said Gottlieb, I must be the snob :).
After 32 years of collecting pins, I've had mutlible Bally and
Williams machines but, only now I'm just a snobby Gottlieb Em
collector, I would not have it any other way :)

Bill

[Barry]

Hey Bill, I know what you are saying. I bought three machines in around
1974, all were relatively/like new. A Gottlieb EM, a Chicago Coin EM
and a bowling machine. The Chicago Coin was Gun Smoke. I don't
remember the Gottlieb as I sold it off because I liked the play of the
Gun Smoke better. I do remember the ease of working on the Gottlieb
compared with the Chicago Coin machine and the higher quality of relays,
wiring and other parts. It was always apparent in all of the Gottlieb
EMs I've had over the years.

I like them all, but now I tend towards being a SS snob. My only two
EMs are the Williams Hayburners II and Derby Day and likely will be
finding new homes.

Please don't take my "Gottlieb EM snob" comment as a slight, I meant it
jokingly as I certainly understand the better quality and design of
Gottlieb EM machines.

Barry

[William Brower]

Hi Barry,

I try not to come across a snob Gottlieb EM collector, but I can see
from some of my past Gottlieb EM's are Gods post, I think I am. I mean
no harm, but I'm weeding out my collection to just having Gottlieb
EMs. I just like them better than the others. No harm taken. I do have
one WMs and one CC machine that I'm having a hard time parting
with :).

Have a nice night,

Bill

[Brad]

It is hard for me to understand and EM collector only owning one brand.
Each of the big companies had some great games. There is even a few
Chicago Coin games I'd like to own.


--
Brad

[William Brower]

The pin real estate in the Brower Basement only allows for me to only
have 10 set up at a time, so, why can't they all be Gottliebs? I would
like them to be all Wedgeheads too :)
If I had the space I would house all brands of pinball machines. I
have nothing against Bally, Williams and Chicago Coin EM Pins, they
and Gottlieb all have their good and bad.

My Pinball short list is almost completed, so I'm almost done with
this thing :)

Bill

[Frank Furhter]

Good, the rest are really questionable garbage quality and design.
Gott was king for 30 years for a reason, they just lost their way and so
did the entire industry for that matter.