how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
On Nov 3, 7:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
I know what ya mean, but it's not like buying a new Stern is a bad thing. Your friend might enjoy spending the extra amount to support the company.
Depends on the friend. Do they want a new machine, do they want a used machine. Any warranty important to them ? They buy a used one you suggested are you married to it for repairs ?
A lot more to think about here than clear conscience. LTG :)
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
Some people don't like the games under 2k. That's why they are less
mgk wrote: > how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
Where do ethics enter into this?
Now, if you're buying the used machine for 2k and selling it to your friend for 4k, that's different.
You can just tell them you can get brand new games for $4k and used games (different titles! obviously?) from anywhere from free to $10k which a lot being around 1k-2k.
Oh... You're one of the pin collectors who don't have any money... You have to wax your own playfield and change your own lightbulbs... (me too)
Many more have scads of cash and investments, don't work, don't have too... Want all of the nicest machines, don't know which end of the light bulb goes up... I've seen them, I know them... Some of them are my friends... Most wouldn't know S**! One about what a good pin even is... BUT, they have money and want a NEW ONE! I went to one persons house just last month to service their pins... There they all were 7 BRAND NEW Stern titles, their favorite was "24"... (giggle). They didn't know which one was better, they just had the money an wanted new shiny things... and that's not an isolated instance, I can cite many instances just like that...
They're not bad people... $4k+ may sound like a lot of money to you... apparently you're not a member of that club! ;-)
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
That's no different than buying a new car for 30k or buying a used car for 15k.
Sure, they will both take you the same places, but the new one isn't used, and some may be willing to pay a premium for that.. others may prefer to have a cheaper option and be willing to accept used.
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
If they demand a full-size, real, new game fresh out of the box, that's the only answer. -- Pistol Pete Parkville, MD
On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
What a silly question. If your friend has their heart set on a Spiderman, how can you in clear conscience suggest they buy a cheaper game instead? Let you friend decide what they want to buy for themselves. Sure, you can make sure they know their options, but to purposely steer them away from something they may love just because you think it's too expensive is silly.
On Nov 3, 8:47 pm, JediTurtle <jeditur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
> What a silly question. If your friend has their heart set on a > Spiderman, how can you in clear conscience suggest they buy a cheaper > game instead? Let you friend decide what they want to buy for > themselves. Sure, you can make sure they know their options, but to > purposely steer them away from something they may love just because > you think it's too expensive is silly.
I've bought a lot of used games and a few NIB...call me stupid, but I still love the thought of opening a NIB machine and being the first one (other than the workers that made it) to use it. The best thrill I had was driving to Chicago and picking up a NIB IM at Stern (and got a free tour to boot)...got to chat with John Borg, Gary, Marketing guys, etc. Well worth the 4 hour one way trip to me...
On Nov 3, 4:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
That's weak bait, but I'll bite.
Extremely easily. As long as they want one I like.
I would never suggest a friend buy an IJ4. New, or otherwise. No matter the price. Friends don't let friends buy IJ4. Everything else is in play, but no Indy
On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
This is only an ethical situation if you are the one selling the new stern.
On Nov 3, 7:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
You make this sound as serious as euthanasia.
It boils down to what games he wants and affordability. You may not necessarily be willing to buy NIB, but that doesn't mean others aren't. NIB is the best choice for people who are not prepared to look under the hood, so to speak. Speaking for myself, I have 10 games, most of them worth 2-4K. So, if I didn't have a fascination for the innards and learning how to fix them, I could easily have just bought 4 or 5 NIB machines over the same time period and still ended up pretty happy.
PS- When people say buying NIB is a good thing as it supports Stern, that's all good and well but that will not be the motivation to buy. Its satisfaction of one's own wants/needs.
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
> I've bought a lot of used games and a few NIB...call me stupid, but I > still love the thought of opening a NIB machine and being the first > one (other than the workers that made it) to use it. The best thrill > I had was driving to Chicago and picking up a NIB IM at Stern (and got > a free tour to boot)...got to chat with John Borg, Gary, Marketing > guys, etc. Well worth the 4 hour one way trip to me...
Wow... That's Awsome... I have to give Gary credit... Not often a CEO would take the time to meet customers! I've done alot of service work for them... They DO take care of their customers... New parts sent out immediatly... Even MPU's No questions, No send us the old one first... I doubt they would even care if the old one got sent back (IMO I may be wrong) Tech support even on 20 year old DE titles... More companies could benefit from their example...
On Nov 3, 7:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
Same way you can suggest your friends buy a new car or TV.
Everyone knows that if they buy something new it loses much of its value "right off the lot."
On Nov 3, 4:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
Have you bought a NIB machine? The answer may change how you feel about buying a new vs. a used machine.
On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
Hey D,
I'm liking some of the responses, especially from the folks who don't know you :-)
But they raise a valid question: Where is this coming from and where is this leading to?
The argument of new car versus old car applies here, but I suspect a deeper meaning behind the question. Especailly when a used Ferrari might be (and usually is) considered better than a new Ford :-)
So what's up? I could give reasons like: support an American company, support the only company still making pins, new smells nice, Avatar is the best pin evar!, etc.
But I don't think that's what you are looking for. Am I right? Cause knowing you and "your collection" I can see a whole lot of reason to buy new and can see a whole lot of reason to buy used.
Ethics would imply that buying used is 'bad', buying new is 'good' (or vice versa), but that doesn't hold water either. Too may variables and too many opinions.
Perhaps, if I'm not reading too much into the question, you could list the games and get opinions on those...
In my opinion: Avatar and/or IM are great. Better than, say Fish Tales, but not better than, say Dr. Who. Or whatever you decide to slap in there for a 2K pin... You could go around all day on that one... I mean, if the guy loves Avatar and hates Dr. Who, you can't even worry about saving $2K, right? Conversly, if the guy loves Poker and that is his hobby, how do you even bring up Avatar or IM despite the guys net worth? You wouldn't even discuss it if the pin is loved or hated by the masses. WPT is WPT and who cares if the upper level pin-wizards hate the backglass? I think the game is great all around, but that's just my opinion and has nothing to do with what I can afford or not afford. And I pretty much can't afford a 2K OR a 4K pin, so I'm definetly in the minority around these here parts...
My other 'problem' is that I'm really starting to get into 1930's games. That makes everything I buy 'used', so that also adds to the mix of dilema as to how to answer your question...
Just wonderin' Probably wouldn't have even responded if I didn't recognize your moniker and was severely curious :-)
market mood research. i like asking [rhetorical] questions of myself and others. reading everyone's opinions and reactions to a simple hypothetical is good fun in my book.
On Nov 4, 11:03 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> market mood research. > i like asking [rhetorical] questions of myself and others. reading > everyone's opinions and reactions to a simple hypothetical is good fun > in my book.
> so yeah, thanks for the replies. keep em coming.
Great thread, really. Makes you think. On one hand, it may seem crazy to spend >$4000 on a new machine. ON THE OTHER hand, it may seem crazy NOT to spend >$4000 on a new machine.
Say you love pinball (most of us do). How would you feel if you NEVER bought a new machine, and someday (I hope this day never comes in my lifetime) there is no place to buy a new machine from? Some will say they won't care, but I don't think a person can reliably know how they'll feel, until they are *really* in that situation. Lets face it, $4000 comes and goes on car payments, house payments, groceries, credit card payments, taxes, and a hundred other things we don't want to spend it on, and its gone with nothing to show for it, but a new machine is always sitting in your gameroom for you to admire, enjoy, play, show off, take pride in, etc.
On Nov 3, 6:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
How is this a question of ethics again?
I was between a new spiderman and a like new TZ. I went for the new spiderman. Hell a used on is $3800. I am glad I did, love it, and the NIB experience is one I would recommend for anyone who has the $.
So is it unethical to price a MM at $7000, when the are Williams Jubilee machines out there for $400? I am trying to follow the logic. Spiderman will always be worth more than $2000 IMO.
Tell your friend you can buy NIB and have something shiny, or, get HUO for a few hundred dollars less, make sure it wasnt abused, or go lower price for Routed. Let them decide - just let them know the options available and the expected cost at each level based on recent sales records.
Ethics - let them figure out whats best for them. If you twist them up to take NIB, then of course, you are forcing them to not make the right decision for themselves.
Of course, i would suggest NIB for the right game, HUO for others. Why? Having gone NIB, nothing beats it - it is worth the extra pop. Knowing its new and clean is worth quite a bit to me personally. HUO is just as well, and you save a few hundred if not more. But, sometimes, supply isnt there (we tend to rush into things) so NIB gets the default win.
Finally, routed - personally, i tried it, and it nags me that the game needs work that i just ran out of time to tend to. But thats just me.
> Tell your friend you can buy NIB and have something shiny, or, get HUO > for a few hundred dollars less, make sure it wasnt abused, or go lower > price for Routed. Let them decide - just let them know the options > available and the expected cost at each level based on recent sales > records.
> Ethics - let them figure out whats best for them. If you twist them up > to take NIB, then of course, you are forcing them to not make the > right decision for themselves.
> Of course, i would suggest NIB for the right game, HUO for others. > Why? Having gone NIB, nothing beats it - it is worth the extra pop. > Knowing its new and clean is worth quite a bit to me personally. HUO > is just as well, and you save a few hundred if not more. But, > sometimes, supply isnt there (we tend to rush into things) so NIB gets > the default win.
> Finally, routed - personally, i tried it, and it nags me that the game > needs work that i just ran out of time to tend to. But thats just me.
How can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they buy a used game that shows wear and will need maintance for $2,000 when they have no ability or desire to work on games and want something that looks new for their game room? A new game with warranty, available parts, better reliability and better looks can be had for 4K. While collectors want specific titles and are willing to work on games most people want something to just be set up and not have to worry about it. They didn't buy a used big screen, used surround sound or used furniture for their home. To get something that looks new you have to wait for a HOU or get a high end restoration, those prices are close to new or more. I recommended a good condition used game for a friend, he bought it and is happy with it. Since then he's bought 2 NIB and really prefers those. No dorking around with them, they look great in his family room, and have that NIB smell that everyone loves.
Jerry
how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
On Nov 3, 7:39 pm, mgk <overlookedo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> how can you, with a clear conscience, suggest to a friend that they > buy a new Stern for $4k+ when there are used machines available in > exceptionally clean condition for $2k or less?
There is a price to pay for the fun of sliding a brand new game out of the box, removing the packing materials, shipping lock down tape on certain features etc. vs. gently used vs. project games. Adding to the fun is the Xmas morning debut of a NIB pin. I've done it once and it is quite the thrill/
Jus like a new car. Ex: A new German sport sedan for $80k or a two year old one off of a lease that still has a warranty, was well maintained for $40k. If money was no object, nothing beats brand new, if money is a factor, the 40k savings can buy some new tires, the inevitable trim items that could use replacing as well as severalNIB and HUO pins!
