Gene buys WMS Pinball Division
Kyle Wren
this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
months, but here is what he said we could expect in the future:
- Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
- Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields, let
alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
- Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also be
some new game development later on down the line.
- "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
the best.
Kyle
-------
TAF,MM,ToM,TZ,ST:TNG,WCS94,CP
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dave Stambaugh
Would this imply that Illinois Pinball is going to manufacture games based
on the WPC system? If they bought all the WMS rights, there wouldn't be
much point in re-designing the platform from the ground up.
--
Dave
MM - TOTAN - DW
http://www.oregonpinball.com
"Kyle Wren" <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Duncan Brown
<pin...@oregonpinball.com> wrote:
>OK, somebody bring me up to speed. Does Gene Cunningham = Illinois Pinball?
>Would this imply that Illinois Pinball is going to manufacture games based
>on the WPC system? If they bought all the WMS rights, there wouldn't be
>much point in re-designing the platform from the ground up.
Gene started Illinois Pinball for the express purpose of buying the
then-recently-shuttered pinball division from Williams. After making
several substantial and very real offers (and basically being
*ignored*!), he went ahead without them, buying up various rights,
parts, etc. from Capcom and Alvin G.
As near as I can tell, every time Williams has packaged together some
piece of the old pinball "stuff" to sell, Gene has purchased it. For
a grand total that is WAYYYyyyyy below what his original offer was for
the whole thing. So basically, WMS shareholders should be looking for
someone to lynch; they really screwed up and threw away millions of
dollars.
What he will do now, with this amalgamation of rights that he owns, is
anyone's guess...
Duncan
Brian Thompson
supported, especially since I just became one with four games over this
past two months.
I'd really like to see the WPC platform continue. It's capable of some
very impressive stuff, and it's already widely known, so field support
would be a lot easier if IP games used it.
Looking forward to seeing what happens over the next months.
-Brian
ES, SC, JBot, WWater
In article <xn6x5.6264$ks.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"Dave Stambaugh" <pin...@oregonpinball.com> wrote:
> OK, somebody bring me up to speed. Does Gene Cunningham = Illinois
Pinball?
> Would this imply that Illinois Pinball is going to manufacture games
based
> on the WPC system? If they bought all the WMS rights, there wouldn't
be
> much point in re-designing the platform from the ground up.
>
ITSJIMBOB
the parts situation will boil over and a steady stream of new replica parts for
older machines will come out of this. I cant see why there hasnt been more
interest in supplying new/old parts to the thousands of qwners and tens of
thousands of games out there. The guys we have now ie. Steve and Marco do a
great job with the limited resources they have but a full blown operation
commited to supplying us with playfields , backglasses etc. will be fabulous.
Cliffy
is publicly visible. I'm stoked. There may be a light at the end of the
pinball tunnel yet! With Gary Stern and Gene Cunningham holding the
future of pinball in their hands it should be an exciting ride.
Kyle Wren wrote:
<snip all the WMS news>
--
Cliffy
'82 Tron U/R
'87 F-14 Tomcat
'90 Funhouse
'93 Creature
APOP Western Director - Shipping Crisis info here:
http://www.ilovepinball.com/APOP/shipping.htm
Check out Marco Rossignoli's The Complete Pinball Book
http://members.home.net/crinear/pinbook.html
Dave Stambaugh
Or is he fronting some kind of group of pinball "enthusiasts" who are
putting up the money?
Dave
"Duncan Brown" <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message
news:39c4f80a...@news.telocity.com...
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:33:33 GMT, "Dave Stambaugh"
> <pin...@oregonpinball.com> wrote:
>
> >OK, somebody bring me up to speed. Does Gene Cunningham = Illinois
Pinball?
> >Would this imply that Illinois Pinball is going to manufacture games
based
> >on the WPC system? If they bought all the WMS rights, there wouldn't be
> >much point in re-designing the platform from the ground up.
>
Mf101723
>everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
>months,
"Hey Gene, what's this huge box full of little white balls?"...... :)
Seriously, nothing there about making from-scratch new games, only reissues,
but maybe that could be further in the future if this whole deal starts to pay
off and pinball starts to pick up again. And besides I wouldn't mind picking
up a NIB EBD or Xenon!
Duncan Brown
<pin...@oregonpinball.com> wrote:
>Not that I want to pry, but is Gene Cunningham, uh, independently wealthy?
>Or is he fronting some kind of group of pinball "enthusiasts" who are
>putting up the money?
Gene appears to be some sort of hyper-entrepreneur...who has done
quite well from a wide assortment of businesses over the years. I
believe he also rounded up investors to start Illinois Pinball, but I
have no idea who they might be. While he is a pinball collector
himself, and he certainly appears to believe there is business to be
had catering to the collector market, he is also running this as a
business, i.e. he is going to need to make money at it.
Having said that, I don't think he is going to start off with the
assumption that making old parts available to collectors is an
inherently unprofitable and unworthy cause to pursue, like a certain
other large corporation seemed to. If there's a way to do it and not
lose his shirt, I am guessing he will try it.
Duncan
Dave Stambaugh
news:8q2un7$u4h$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I'd really like to see the WPC platform continue. It's capable of some
> very impressive stuff, and it's already widely known, so field support
> would be a lot easier if IP games used it.
Yes! The WPC design is proven, well-understood, etc. I sure hope that's
the route they take with any new games that come out.
-dave
Dave Stambaugh
at this point in time, with a business plan for a new pinball manufacturing
company! Hence my curiosity about their source of financial backing.
Dave
"Duncan Brown" <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message
news:39c508d7...@news.telocity.com...
Michael Paris
and what they would have been like? Mike Paris
Phil Palmer - The Pinball Heaven
gold will be produced?!!!
Phil
Dave Stambaugh wrote in message ...
>OK, somebody bring me up to speed. Does Gene Cunningham = Illinois
Pinball?
>Would this imply that Illinois Pinball is going to manufacture games based
>on the WPC system? If they bought all the WMS rights, there wouldn't be
>much point in re-designing the platform from the ground up.
>
>--
>Dave
>MM - TOTAN - DW
>http://www.oregonpinball.com
>
>
>"Kyle Wren" <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
>news:8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> Foreword: I specifically asked Mr. Cunningham if it was cool to spread
>> this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
>> terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
>> share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
>> into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
>>
>> Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
>> division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
>> everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
Mf101723
he use the Capcom Classic (Breakshot) platform? Or WPC? Both are absolute
overkill if you are talking about exactly duplicating those old games but the
Classic platform looks to be a much more economical one (he probably PAID less
for it too!) Can Gene afford to use both platforms or will he just focus on
one for newer remakes and another for older ones?
Or chuck one of em? Only Gene and the Shadow know
Erik Mooney
<ph...@PinballHeaven.co.uk> wrote:
>And I don't think there is a better OS than the WPC95 platform! Maybe a MM
>gold will be produced?!!!
Well, actually, the Pinball 2000 OS is much better than the WPC OS, simply
because it's ten years newer, which is like five generations of software
design. It's got tons more power in terms of CPU and memory, and the
interchangeability is excellent -- or would be, if there were more games
available. Plus the sheer array of stuff included in the OS (like the Web
server) is great.
If I were with Illinois Pinball and designing and building new games, I'd
use the Pinball 2000 platform, except with a DMD instead of the monitor.
skozzy
seems that pinball in the arcades is dieing fast, maybe a re-run of the old
to the new machines for the home market might be the only avenue left ?
I guess there is more collectors then arcades around the world, or at least
more collectors spend money on repairs then arcades do ?
Anyone got a 6 pack ?, lets drink and celebrate.. whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!
josh kaplan
Also, what pinball background does Mr. Cunningham have? Did he ever own a
shop?
Just curious.
Josh
Keith Stelter
He's NOT a happy, friendly guy like Harry Williams or some of the others.
He's a big time game hoarder. He'll stand next to you at an auction and talk
with you about how you drove 4 hours to buy the Fireball being sold.
When it comes up for sale, he'll blow everyone away. Then he'll turn back to
you and tell you that he already has 6 of them, and that no one else was
going to get that game.
I'm just as happy as anyone to see that someone is doing something about
pinball. I just hope that everyone remembers that Gene is NOT going to be
the guy who gives collectors a break on ANYTHING.
I hope that I'm wrong, but I've been around Gene at shows and auctions for
years.
Hey, it's a free country. If a guy has a million bucks (literally) to buy
pinball machines, there is no law against him having a dozen duplicate games
wrapped up in storage. I just don't agree with it myself.
Gene is a VERY successful business man. If he's doing this pinball thing, I
don't believe that it's because he wants to help all of us out.
We'll have to see what happens when he starts selling parts.
Just my 2 cents (and probably no sense).
Keith
"josh kaplan" <joshk...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:8q3dk9$lpp$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Kyle Wren
Michael Paris <twin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Now that he owns the prototype 3 and 4 2000 pins, can he disclose the
> titles and what they would have been like? Mike Paris
He did mention the titles to me, but nothing about what the games were
like. Game 3 was called "Wizard Blocks" and game 4 was "Playboy". He
definetly wasn't interested in talking about the PB2K platform much, he
pretty much stated he was not a fan of it, or at least didn't think it
was economically viable due to the costs. Considering that he stated
the Williams still had a few unsold SWE1 (the ones with the now famous
$1000 plague), maybe he has a point. I personally thought the platform
had a lot of potential, but I am also not an operator being asked to
shell out 4k for one.
Darin Smith
Darin
"Kyle Wren" <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8q3i5n$jfs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
John Harwood
-John
On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:27:26 GMT, "Darin Smith" <darin...@home.com>
wrote:
Lloyd R Olson
Darin Smith <darin...@home.com> wrote in message
news:yrcx5.91961$Ur3.1...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
metallik
and games.
Frankly, I'd rather have Williams/Bally pinball in the hands of someone
who cares about pinball, rather than a public corporation that doesn't.
No matter HOW many games he hoards.
> > Kyle Wren <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
Williams Fan
can produce games so that we have some variety.
I live in the Bloomington/Normal area. I have seen many newspaper
articles over the years, as well as spoken to many people about Gene.
His key to his finacial sucsuess has been his Real Estate(he is a
landlord-and a stingy one from what I hear), as well as a couple of
businesses he owns-'The skating place' and 'Cunningham's Million Items'.
His million item store, by the way, has over priced slots and a
pin($1000 of a GTB Rock-yuck)!
Yes he may have over 1200 pins in his collection, but from many of ther
articles and pictures, he has MANY of the same game. I think Tim Arnold
has the largest collection of different games.
This will only be good for the industry, if he developes new games;
continues to sell the NOS Williams parts; and he doesn't let his head
get to big and mark up the parts to a incredible price- This is my big
concern.
Williams Fan
Bloomington/Normal,Ill
roby
production. Keep that in mind while reading . . .
I've been watching and listening to all items concerning Gene and Illinois
Pinball over the last year or so. And I've never shared a thought until now.
I'm a bit concerned about Gene's whole "burn your neighbor" style at the
auction(s) and in his professional life. This man loves pinball collecting.
I do too.But, this man wants them all. Why? Because he is also an investor.
Here is a possibility.
What if Gene buys up everything he can and locks up the market. I'm talking
about holding his rights and not producing. Let's say this man continues to
go around buying pins and holding them. Someone with his money can hold
enough of the market to cause games to shoot way way up. Then he can begin
to unload his stock for an incredible profit. Serious profit. Maybe this is
not a good thing after all.
Also, consider that he does re-release older pins. I'm betting that they are
not exact - especially if a newer OS is used. Example - Xenon running on a
WPC platform. Before you hammer me on that; consider PCB production costs.
It would be cheaper to keep everything as standard as possible on all pins
and do some software upgrading - as opposed to having a re-run on each
hardware platform. And Gene's re-releases are not imposing the values of
Gene's seriously huge classic pinball stock either. That way, he makes big
bucks on re-releases and big bucks on original vintage machines too.
What do you think??
A very not-so-optimistic anymore-Rob C:>
Williams Fan <wms...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39C59759...@yahoo.com...
Edloco
I Don't know if I could trust the business decisions of a guy with the
main part of his collection being 6 deep in 60s to early 70s Ballys.
Now if they were Gottlieb Woodrails & Wedge Heads, & heavy on AABs,
then I'd think he's a genius.
On 18 Sep 2000 07:50:20 GMT, mf10...@aol.com (Mf101723) wrote:
>church or school? Take a look at that backglass again, dude!
My Motto:
If Yer Gonna Bringem', Bringem' Young !!!
Wayne Gillard
system, it is cheaper to buy up existing operating systems and release games
that were already on the drawing board first. Plus cheaper for us to buy.
Operators or collectors would need to buy 10,000 units of a new from scratch
game and he would loose millions just like WMS did.
Good new though & good luck.
Keith Stelter <del...@datacruz.com> wrote in message
news:39c53...@news.datacruz.com...
twopl...@aol.com
Yeah.. I know the math.. but after the 35th anniv game in 1989,
pieced together with what someone mentioned to me, it had to be.
I hope they release it! While Hef's here to see it no less.
Lloyd R Olson
when.cows.attack
priority right now, but I'm sure he'll get to some of the lesser games
eventually.
In article <8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
Ce n'ais pas un Twilight Zone.
Duncan Brown
>What if Gene buys up everything he can and locks up the market. I'm talking
>about holding his rights and not producing. Let's say this man continues to
>go around buying pins and holding them. Someone with his money can hold
>enough of the market to cause games to shoot way way up. Then he can begin
>to unload his stock for an incredible profit. Serious profit. Maybe this is
>not a good thing after all.
Man, what is it with the conspiracy theories?!
OK, let's do the math. Let's say Gene has 1000 games. Let's say
through your proposed devious manipulation of the market, they all
shoot up in price by and outrageous $1000. He sells them all and
makes a cool million dollars profit. But he probably spent more than
that to buy all this stuff that gave him the ability to pull off this
nefarious scheme! Doesn't sound like a very good business proposition
to me.
Whatever he ends up doing, it's going to be an attempt to make money
on new production of stuff, not an attempt to liquidate his vast
collection at outrageous markup!
Duncan
metallik
simply selling games would outweigh the potential profit from "cornering
the market." In the latter scenario, the only potential buyers would be
collectors.. ops and distributors would just buy from Stern. Also,
there may very well be good moneymaking potential simply selling
games.. Even though WMS claimed losses on the pinball division, it
sounds (based on posts I've read from ex-WMS staff) that they used
"creative accounting" to pin losses and expenses all over the company on
the pin division. Of course, I don't know for sure, but if this WAS the
case, IPC could make good profit on less volume.
As for old games using new hardware.. erm.. so? WPC/DCS can be made
to come pretty doggone close to the old thing, gameplay and sound-wise.
The bigger question would be cabinets.. I doubt he'd remake each game
in the cabinet style it originally came in (no folding heads?? ugg!)
.. This all is assuming he's even going to make "old games" verbatim..
He may make "remakes" that play similar, but are definitly a new game
(Xenon 2000, anyone? :)
roby wrote:
>
> I'm trying to think positive in this negative world of modern pinball
> production. Keep that in mind while reading . . .
>
> I've been watching and listening to all items concerning Gene and Illinois
> Pinball over the last year or so. And I've never shared a thought until now.
> I'm a bit concerned about Gene's whole "burn your neighbor" style at the
> auction(s) and in his professional life. This man loves pinball collecting.
> I do too.But, this man wants them all. Why? Because he is also an investor.
> Here is a possibility.
>
> What if Gene buys up everything he can and locks up the market. I'm talking
> about holding his rights and not producing. Let's say this man continues to
> go around buying pins and holding them. Someone with his money can hold
> enough of the market to cause games to shoot way way up. Then he can begin
> to unload his stock for an incredible profit. Serious profit. Maybe this is
> not a good thing after all.
>
David Gersic
>Also, what pinball background does Mr. Cunningham have? Did he ever own a
>shop?
Quoting an interview with Gene in the local newspaper (the "Pantograph") a
while ago:
With roughly 1,200 machines, Cunningham's collection
bridges 50 years of coin-operated pop culture.
When he turns 65 and retires, Cunningham might convert
the indoor skating rink he owns on Bloomington's
southwest side into a pinball museum. For now, his
entire collection - covered by a $500,000 insurance
policy and a driveway security system - remains locked
inside a 21,000-square foot building behind his home in
Bloomington.
Then again, Cunningham has devoted most of his life to
collecting things. Next to his skating rink is the family
resale shop, Cunningham's Million Items. He's landlord
for dozens of Twin City residents. Hundreds of old slot
machines share space with the pinball machines and line
some walls in his 13,000-square foot home. He collects
bronze statues, stained glass, old telephones, and neon
beer signs.
...he sold his gun collection.
He also sold the bulk of his classic car collection...
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
|David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
|Systems Programmer Northern Illinois University |
| |
| AMD's new add campaign: 99% Pentium compatible. You don't want the other 1%.
| |
|I'm tired of receiving crap in my mailbox, so the E-mail address has been|
|munged to foil the junkmail bots. Humans will figure it out on their own.|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
David Gersic
>OK, somebody bring me up to speed. Does Gene Cunningham = Illinois Pinball?
Yes. Gene is the Bally collector in southern Illinois that created Illinois
Pinball.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
|David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
|Systems Programmer Northern Illinois University |
| |
| At least when I drank, I knew what to blame everything on... |
Micheal D. Webb
the payroll if they decide to? However, I think that the days of fictitious
pinballs are long gone for now. "Pool Players" is a 'safe marketable'
pinball because it's aimed towards any age group. You can also place it
anywhere from a smoky bar to a church or a school. I'm guessing that IPB is
using this 'sure-winner' to build up enough revenue to start inking
commercial licenses like Stern.
Mike
"Duncan Brown" <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message
news:39c58cf4....@news.telocity.com...
Mf101723
>pinball because it's aimed towards any age group. You can also place it
>anywhere from a smoky bar to a church or a school.
church or school? Take a look at that backglass again, dude!
Joe Schober
> How will a young company like IPB afford to put guys like Lawlor back
>on the payroll if they decide to?
How can a young company like IPB afford to buy WMS pinball? I'm sure that
wasn't an insignificant amount of money. Sounds like Mr. Cunningham has a
bankroll and isn't afraid to use it to support pinball operations. Probably
wouldn't hurt if he gets a game out with close-to-zero R&D cost (i.e. Pool
Players) to get some cash flow.
>However, I think that the days of fictitious pinballs are long gone for now.
What's a fictitious pinball? Deathball 2000?
>"Pool Players" is a 'safe marketable'
>pinball because it's aimed towards any age group. You can also place it
>anywhere from a smoky bar to a church or a school.
Smoky bar? Sure.
School? College, anyway.
Church? If you think that theme and backglass are appropriate in a church --
heck, if you've ever seen a church operating pins! -- show me where it is; I'll
join and put my tithes in the coin slot. ;D
--Joe
Aeneas
roby <co...@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:eEfx5.9743$Rt3.5...@nntp2.onemain.com...
> I'm trying to think positive in this negative world of modern pinball
> production. Keep that in mind while reading . . .
>
> I've been watching and listening to all items concerning Gene and Illinois
> Pinball over the last year or so. And I've never shared a thought until
now.
> I'm a bit concerned about Gene's whole "burn your neighbor" style at the
> auction(s) and in his professional life. This man loves pinball
collecting.
> I do too.But, this man wants them all. Why? Because he is also an
investor.
> Here is a possibility.
>
talking
> about holding his rights and not producing. Let's say this man continues
to
> go around buying pins and holding them. Someone with his money can hold
> enough of the market to cause games to shoot way way up. Then he can begin
> to unload his stock for an incredible profit. Serious profit. Maybe this
is
> not a good thing after all.
>
are
> not exact - especially if a newer OS is used. Example - Xenon running on a
> WPC platform. Before you hammer me on that; consider PCB production costs.
> It would be cheaper to keep everything as standard as possible on all pins
> and do some software upgrading - as opposed to having a re-run on each
> hardware platform. And Gene's re-releases are not imposing the values of
> Gene's seriously huge classic pinball stock either. That way, he makes big
> bucks on re-releases and big bucks on original vintage machines too.
>
> What do you think??
> A very not-so-optimistic anymore-Rob C:>
>
I have to admit I had similar thoughts reading this news..
He sounds to be a very good business man and investor, so his actions now
will
not be because he likes pinball or just wants to help collectors. It is to
make money out of it.
OK he may be collector (or just an investor), but that only is in his
advance: he knows
the business very well, knows the possibilities, etc. He probably likes
pinball a lot,
so just turned his hobby into his work :-) (I probably would do the same if
I had
the $$)
He sold his car collection ? That's maybe because prices of oldtimers raised
a lot
at the end of the 80ies but then took a sharp drop and are still low now..
If he has bought early enough and sold while prices were high he has made a
gigantic profit.
Pinballs are in the same situation. Prices are low, he can easily buy all
rights.
Don't forget he bought the best brand there was: Williams, market leader for
years,
millions of machines installed and people continue to need parts for those,
and there
is hardly any competition. Operators still need new machines (less then
years before
but there's still a nice demand) but hardly can buy any.
Yes with this business plan you can get a loan from a bank.
(can you give other examples of markets where there is worldwide only 1 huge
market
leader with millions clients, and only 1 small competitor ??)
If he's aiming at collectors, this means he'll probably produce wanted parts
for a lot
of money. He might do re-runs of plastics that a lot of people need (he has
the rights,
so he also has the legal right to stop small reproductions by other people
!!), but won't
make millions of them and sell them at near production cost like $2 each.
Instead only do a limited run and ask $50. The serious collectors who want
to keep
their shiny 10/20/30/..-year old pinball machine as new well spend the
money, as they
do now looking for NOS parts.
The good news for pinball is that out of stock parts will disappear and
everything may
become available, the bad news is that you may pay a lot for all these
parts.
And maybe you won't know the difference between real NOS parts and his
re-runs.
(real collectors will still be so difficult they only want real NOS and not
reruns :-)
He won't sell his whole collection at once, this would drop prices too much,
but
releasing some slowly is definately an option (unless he wants to start his
pinball
museum). If you buy all Fireballs you can get your hands on, it is to raise
the worth
of your own collection (because there are less available on the market).
I collect comic books and have seen it done there.. shops buying almost all
books
of a limited edition and only releasing them years later, one by one, for 10
times
the original price. You want it, you can only get it at his shop, for his
price.
Don't want to pay, bad luck.
(if he wants Fireballs btw, I've seen 2 here in Belgium for $1000 each :-)
I hope I'm wrong in some parts and that pinball collectors will be able to
restore all
the games, as parts will be available at a reasonable price, and that he'll
be able to
increase popularity of pinball..
Aeneas.
Iain Odlin
>Yes. Gene is the Bally collector in southern Illinois that created Illinois
>Pinball.
Except he spells it "Pin Ball". Two words.
*sigh*
-Iain
twopl...@aol.com
Kyle Wren <kw...@msn.com> wrote:
> Foreword: I specifically asked Mr. Cunningham if it was cool to spread
> this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
> terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
> share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
> into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
>
> Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
> division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
> everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
> months, but here is what he said we could expect in the future:
>
If true, this should appear in a press release within the next 48 hours.
Because they are publicly traded, this information will be noted and/or
part of the quarterly report including purchase price etc.
> - Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
>
Well, now he's got game 1,201 and 1,202 in his personal collection.
> - Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
> He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields,
let
> alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
> intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
> current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
>
Sounds like his intention is to run CLASSIC parts. And classics cost
big bucks. Let's just hope that in addition to re-running 2 billion
TAF pfs.. that we see some MM, CC, CV, ToM, SS etc PF's.. plastics etc.
> - Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
> although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also
be
> some new game development later on down the line.
Interesting.... I wonder if a Williams MM will be worth more than a
Bally MM?
>
> - "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
> didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
>
Probably IPB since anything bearing the Bally name probably has
royalties tied to it.
> Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
> the best.
>
We all wish him well, however, since I've never read Gene here in RPG I
highly doubt we collectors are getting any breaks. From a business
perspective, I'd imagine the goal will be to take over the distributor
accounts; fulfill or replace backorders; get basic stuff in the
pipeline and evaluate which games based on backorders need attention
first.
Following all that, sure, they will probably re-run classics, but most
likely they'll do classics of the games with the highest demand for
replacement parts.. just makes sense.
Kyle Wren
Sorry, spelling isn't my strong suit. :-) But Yes, the last 1000 SWE1s
had a special plaque stuck to the front of them which resulted in a
special feature of "List + $1000" to the end buyer.
airh...@my-deja.com
inflated recent machine for collectors and operators - MM. With
collectors and operators still scrambling for the machines who wouldn't
pay $4,500 for a NIB one rather than a used one? And at that price he
should be able to make a fair profit.
Larry
In article <8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Kyle Wren <kw...@msn.com> wrote:
> Foreword: I specifically asked Mr. Cunningham if it was cool to spread
> this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
> terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
> share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
> into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
>
> Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
> division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
> everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
> months, but here is what he said we could expect in the future:
>
> - Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
>
> - Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
> He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields,
let
> alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
> intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
> current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
>
> - Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
> although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also
be
> some new game development later on down the line.
>
> - "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
> didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
>
> Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
> the best.
>
Steve Baumgarten
"Keith Stelter" <del...@datacruz.com> wrote:
> Gene is a VERY successful business man. If he's doing this pinball
> thing, I don't believe that it's because he wants to help all of us
> out.
On the other hand, if the implication is that Gene is just in this for
the money -- well, then that's a good thing, isn't it? Because WMS
left the business because they couldn't figure out how to make money at
it, and continuing to produce games and maintain a parts department out
of the goodness of its corporate heart doesn't look too good on an
annual report.
If Gene thinks he knows how to sell new games, service the home
market, and make a lot of money doing so, more power to him. The
result will be someone who's in it for the long haul, which is
precisely what we need right now -- someone building a thriving
business, not someone dabbling in the hobby for philanthropic reasons.
SBB
marc b
not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
It wouldn't make much sense, if he wanted to sell to ops again, NOT produce
at least these 2 P2K machines. MOst of the work is done and there is a
fairly large installed base of SWE1 and RFM's out there still taking in
quarters. He could sell kits pretty darn cheaply.
Besides, that platform is more stable than WPC/WPC95 and less maintenance.
Remember that both monitors AND motherboards are alot cheaper now than when
these were produced.
Not to market Pat's latest game? blasphemy
marc b
Jim Hicks
twopl...@aol.com wrote:
> > - Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> > not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> > willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
>
> Well, now he's got game 1,201 and 1,202 in his personal collection.
If true, as someone else said, perhaps we will see an article in pGj
later this fall with additional information to complete the history of
Pinball 2000. Of course, some of that information would have to come
from members of the former development teams and we don't know the
extent (or duration) of their non-disclosure agreements or if those
would be voided if this alleged sale to Gene is completed.
> > - Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
> > He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields,
> let
> > alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
> > intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
> > current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
> >
>
> Sounds like his intention is to run CLASSIC parts. And classics cost
> big bucks. Let's just hope that in addition to re-running 2 billion
> TAF pfs.. that we see some MM, CC, CV, ToM, SS etc PF's.. plastics etc.
You would expect that anything with sufficient demand would be re-run.
But doesn't Steve Young already own the rights to reproduce (or more
correctly, rerun) the "classic" Bally parts? I thought he had the
original molds for the unique Bally parts (EBD, Kiss, Playboy, etc.)
like bumper caps, drop targets, etc.
>
> > - Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
> > although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also
> be some new game development later on down the line.
And how is he going to sell these? Even if he bought the WMS
distributor rights for pinball, his company is still a complete unknown
to 99.9% of the former Williams distributors. Product distribution is
the key here ...
> Interesting.... I wonder if a Williams MM will be worth more than a
> Bally MM?
Want to bet you'll never see a "Bally MM"?
> > - "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
> > didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
"but later on this year?" Duh! As opposed to when? How much later
could it get?
> Probably IPB since anything bearing the Bally name probably has
> royalties tied to it.
>
> > Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
> > the best.
I met him at Expo last year - seems a nice enough fellow at first
meeting. But I certainly didn't get the impression this was someone who
was planning to take a key part is preserving pinball as we know it. I
would like to go see his proposed museum if/when it opens. I wish him
and Gary Stern all the best - like it or now, the future of pinball
seems to be in their hands. Let's hope IPB is not a one man show and
that there is a reasonable plan to make this work. We've seen one
posting in r.g.p. - that's a long way from having all the design,
tooling, production, assembly and distribution capacity to make all this
work before we see anything other than remaining stock sold. And unless
Gene is funding this entirely himself and has very deep pockets, he'll
need other investors. Let's hope the plan works, because if it doesn't,
future investors will stay away from anything named pinball.
>
> We all wish him well, however, since I've never read Gene here in RPG I
> highly doubt we collectors are getting any breaks. From a business
> perspective, I'd imagine the goal will be to take over the distributor
> accounts; fulfill or replace backorders; get basic stuff in the
> pipeline and evaluate which games based on backorders need attention
> first.
You've never read Gene here in r.g.p. because it's my understanding he's
not exactly what you would call "computer literate". Have you noticed
that http://www.illinoispinball.com/ has been under construction
forever? If Gene has an intention of catering to the collector market,
obviously rgp would be a great place to reach that market. Time will
tell. Your "business perspective" approach seems reasonable - we can
only hope.
> Following all that, sure, they will probably re-run classics, but most
> likely they'll do classics of the games with the highest demand for
> replacement parts.. just makes sense.
I've only been a collector for about five years now, but I've learned
that "just makes sense" and what the pinball industry does are generally
mutually exclusive terms.
Jim Hicks
have the fit-and-sinish required) and I thought the plug got pulled
before Youssi could finish the artwork, but I can't believe game 4 would
be anywhere near close to produce kits from.
And, to make this work at all, you would have to have a couple of the
key P2K software folks, none of whom (to the best of my knowledge) work
for Gene.
As for not marketing Pat's latest game? For me, if Pat's not involved
in seeing it to completion, it's not Pat's game.
I personally would like to see more P2K games, but have a hard time
believing there is a reasonable chance of that happening. For now, I
would settle for a reasonably priced PRISM sandwich card ... <g>
marc b wrote:
>
> >>- Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
Keith Johnson
news:sscaah...@corp.supernews.com...
> It wouldn't make much sense, if he wanted to sell to ops again, NOT
produce
> at least these 2 P2K machines. MOst of the work is done and there is a
> fairly large installed base of SWE1 and RFM's out there still taking in
> quarters. He could sell kits pretty darn cheaply.
I can safely say that most of the work has NOT been done for game 4...!
Trust me on this one.
keith
larry
> Remember that both monitors AND motherboards are alot cheaper now than when
> these were produced.
I wouldn't go so far as to say P2K is more *stable* than WPC. WPC is
tried and true, as it's 9 years of service would attest to. P2K is
still relatively new .. and although it definitly is more user-friendly
and feature-filled than WPC (the switch and lamp playfield maps are
nice!), I'd still say give 'em a game or two more before calling it as
stable as WPC... just to be sure. Remember the bowling bug and the
other issue that caused the last set of updates to be needed (1.5/1.4).
This isn't putting down the platform at all.. rather, just pointing out
that something this new may still have a couple unknown issues floating
around.
One last thing.. they'll HAVE to find better fans if they want to
promote stability as a feature.. Even the most stable code in the world
won't run if your power supply melts down :)
MGPACAK
has no Clue to pinball bussiness and at this point has refused to surround
himself with people that do. I do wish him the best but his attitude must
change. He NEVER will be successful by himself as he is trying to do. Do you
know one person that he ever has helped in the pinball circles?? MIke PACAk
ronscore
Mf101723
>had a special plaque stuck to the front of them which resulted in a
>special feature of "List + $1000" to the end buyer.
And people are accusing this new Ilinois Pinball guy of being hoardy and
greedy??
Boag1
in seeing it to completion, it's not Pat's game. >>
But Gene could always just contract Pat Lawlor design to continue the work, if
he so desired. Not that he wants to, but he could.
Aron
Street maintainence instructions for pinball: 1. Unlock and open coin door
2. Remove coin box and empty contents 3. Replace coin box and shut door 4.
Lock coin door. Congratulations! You're a pinball tech in Detroit! Not that
I'm bitter.
J. Weaver Jr.
Yeah - me. By buying WMS Pinball, which I _know_ Williams didn't care
about enough to support at _all_, he's done me a _big_ favor. Whatever
he decides to do with it, it'll be better than the absolute nothing
that's being done with it now. -JW
Kyle Wren
bo...@aol.com (Boag1) wrote:
>
> But Gene could always just contract Pat Lawlor design to continue the
> work, if he so desired. Not that he wants to, but he could.
He did mention that he is still using Pat's company in a consulting
fashion, but that they were not partners on the WMS buyout deal.
Kyle
-------
TAF,MM,ToM,TZ,ST:TNG,WCS94,CP
Me
><< As for not marketing Pat's latest game? For me, if Pat's not involved
>in seeing it to completion, it's not Pat's game. >>
>
>
>he so desired. Not that he wants to, but he could.
>
http://www.register.com/whois-results.cgi?domain=illinoispinball.com
shows that the resgistrant of illinoispinball.com is Pat Lawlor ...
dbe...@nospam.iupui.edu
Jim Hicks <jimh...@attglobal.net> writes:
>
>You've never read Gene here in r.g.p. because it's my understanding he's
>not exactly what you would call "computer literate". Have you noticed
>that http://www.illinoispinball.com/ has been under construction
>forever? If Gene has an intention of catering to the collector market,
>obviously rgp would be a great place to reach that market. Time will
>tell. Your "business perspective" approach seems reasonable - we can
>only hope.
>
Iam supprised no one has done this yet but if you do a lookup on
illinoispinball.com the owner of the domain might supprise you.
Registrant:
LAWLOR, PATRICK (ILLINOISPINBALL-DOM)
24308 Tomlin Rd
MARENGO, IL 60152
US
Domain Name: ILLINOISPINBALL.COM
Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:
LAWLOR, PATRICK-WN-HGJC (PLV69) pla...@AMERITECH.NET
LAWLOR, PATRICK-WN-HGJC
24308 Tomlin Rd
MARENGO, IL 60152
815 943 7523 (FAX) 123 123 1234
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
WorldNIC Name Host (HOST-ORG) name...@WORLDNIC.COM
Network Solutions, Inc.
505 Huntmar Park Drive
Herndon, VA 20170
1-888-642-9675
Record last updated on 03-May-2000.
Record expires on 30-January-2002.
Record created on 30-January-2000.
Damon
Lloyd R Olson
Me <el...@fnord.org> wrote in message
news:slrn8scria...@cthuga.netlag.com...
Duncan Brown
Kyle Wren wrote:
>
> In article <20000918143643...@ng-cr1.aol.com>,
> bo...@aol.com (Boag1) wrote:
> >
> > But Gene could always just contract Pat Lawlor design to continue the
> > work, if he so desired. Not that he wants to, but he could.
>
> He did mention that he is still using Pat's company in a consulting
> fashion, but that they were not partners on the WMS buyout deal.
That's just out and out WRONG. Pat is doing nothing whatsoever with
Gene (unless he started doing something since I last talked to Pat a
couple of days ago!)
As to the domain name registration...
Way back last fall, Pat (and many other WMS people) did talk to Gene and
it looked like something might actually happen. It didn't, but before
it became clear that it wouldn't, Pat and Louis had the foresight to
grab the domain name for Gene, because they knew he wouldn't even think
about it.
Well NOW, Pat would love nothing better than to give Gene the domain
registration; he does *not* want it in *his* name! But that's hard to
do without the recipient being a computer-savvy guy who can accept it.
You can't just put it in someone else's name for them. He doesn't want
money for it, he doesn't want reimbursement for what it cost him so far,
he just wants to be rid of it.
In fact, if one of you would like to cyber-squat, or if you'd like to
cozy up to gene by designing a web site for him, by all means contact
Pat and offer to take the domain name off his hands!
(Maybe he'll give it away as a prize at the Pat Lawlor Show at Expo...)
Duncan
Kyle Wren
Duncan Brown <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote:
>
> In fact, if one of you would like to cyber-squat, or if you'd like to
> cozy up to gene by designing a web site for him, by all means contact
> Pat and offer to take the domain name off his hands!
I forgot to mention, he also got the pinball.com domain name as part of
the deal. Assuming that they would leave the content where it is, and
it isn't being hosted by an on-site WMS computer (which would be
doubtful, but I suspose it is possible), he already has a good start on
one of his web sites. :-)
Of course, the million dollar question, will there still be an Illinois
Pinball in a couple of months, or will Gene just transform into Bally
Pinball Incorporated?
Dave Stambaugh
Cunningham is the buyer. I'm only the messenger...
--
Dave
"Kyle Wren" <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Foreword: I specifically asked Mr. Cunningham if it was cool to spread
> this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
> terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
> share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
> into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
>
> Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
> division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
> everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
> months, but here is what he said we could expect in the future:
>
> - Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
>
> - Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
> He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields, let
> alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
> intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
> current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
>
> - Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
> although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also be
> some new game development later on down the line.
>
> - "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
> didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
>
> Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
> the best.
>
Duncan Brown
Dave Stambaugh wrote:
>
> FWIW: A reliable source (and not my usual one) says there is no way Gene
> Cunningham is the buyer. I'm only the messenger...
Gene was at 3401 N. California Ave. last Friday, and told people outside
the building (who asked him what he was up to) that he had just made a
deal to buy it all. So I suppose nothing is for sure until money
changes hands, etc. but *Gene* sure thinks he's the buyer! It does seem
strange, since it was only last week that they even started shopping it
around in earnest again; you'd think they'd want to wait to see what
other offers came in. But there you have it.
Duncan
Dave Stambaugh
talk about some kind of a deal in generalities, plenty of spin control on
both sides, heads nod, Gene walks out thinking it's a lock.
--
Dave
"Duncan Brown" <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message
news:39C684EE...@eisner.decus.org...
Orin Day
"marc b" <m...@mail.com> wrote:
>>- Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he
>> is
>> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
>> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
> It wouldn't make much sense, if he wanted to sell to ops again, NOT
> produce at least these 2 P2K machines. MOst of the work is done and
> there is a fairly large installed base of SWE1 and RFM's out there
> still taking in quarters. He could sell kits pretty darn cheaply.
Well, it's been a while since I've officially been in the industry,
but if I recall correctly parts were for the most part designed by
engineers at the pinball company and then manufactured by outside
vendors whereas pinball games were assembled at the factory.
If you want to sell repro parts and have the blueprints/CAD drawings
(and perhaps molds if applicable) and the rights to reproduce the
parts (if the parts contained licensed material) it's relatively easy -
contract with an appropriate vendor (perhaps the same vendor that made
the original part) and you're in business. You don't really need a
factory for this part.
If you want to make playfields in any quantity, you either need a
factory of your own, or somebody who will assemble the playfields
under contract after you've already had vendors manufacture and/or
remanufacture hundreds if not thousands of parts. It's not nearly as
simple as "just parts."
[About PB2K:]
> Besides, that platform is more stable than WPC/WPC95
Long term??? There are still a lot of old WPC games in the
field.
> and less maintenance.
Has anybody worked on a 7 year old PB2K system? Are there
many techs out there that know all the ins and outs of WPC?
(rhetorical questions, of course)
> Remember that both monitors AND motherboards are alot
> cheaper now than when these were produced.
Not to mention that the WPC parts are also all cheaper,
and the system is cheaper to manufacture overall. Now,
if the other shoe drops and the 6809 goes out of production
things will of course be different.
> Not to market Pat's latest game? blasphemy
Is it ready to go? If not, you're talking about a lot of
development costs - software, mechanical design, documentation,
tech support etc. - not to mention the forementioned factory or
contract manufacturer (they're in busines to turn a profit, I've
seen it). Certainly there'd be less overhead than WMS, but
there'd also be no WMS behind the game either - regardless of
hurt feelings on r.g.p. for their pin division closing the WMS
name meant a lot to the distributors and customers.
Just my two cents, I wish Gene all the best with the new venture.
OD
---
Hey Squid Boy....Wait a minute...
larry
> strange, since it was only last week that they even started shopping it
> around in earnest again; you'd think they'd want to wait to see what
> other offers came in. But there you have it.
Well, maybe Gene, knowing the potential market for the division is
rather limited, made 'em a "take it or leave it" offer that was only
good for 24 hours? Just a guess..
Doug
being released and pinball continuing to grow for years to come, but, at
this very moment in time the one thing I am concerned about is will I be
able to buy a ramp assembly or maybe a plastic set or cabinet side
rails. In oher words, Parts! Lets just hope that he concentrates on
getting the parts supply back up to par so we don't have to worry about
the trough board going bad and not being able to do anything about it!
Just my 2 cents.
Doug Huse, who just got a NGG and sees lots of NLA parts on the
playfield.
CONCRETEBO
>>
>> Gene is a mass horder.
Takes one to know one.
Mitch
I just did a WHOIS on illinoispiball.com, and it has Pat Lawlor as the
contact and domain owner.
I didn't realize he was involved.
Mitch
airh...@my-deja.com wrote:
> And at that price he
> should be able to make a fair profit.
>
And bring used prices back down to earth.
Woohoo! Build that pinball wing in the basement!
MGPACAK
ANYTHING. Gimme a brake
CONCRETEBO
Lloyd R Olson
responses on this group to indicate this and been the recipient of one.
Thanks Mike ! LTG :)
CONCRETEBO <concr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000918184923...@ng-co1.aol.com...
Mf101723
time the one thing I am concerned about is will I be>able to buy a ramp
assembly
Gee, I might be a selfish pig but personally I'd rather be concerned with new
pinball machines and pinball surviving and and have you hope and dream about
getting your ramp assembly...
Jonathan N. Deitch
Kyle Wren <kw...@msn.com> writes:
> Sorry, spelling isn't my strong suit. :-) But Yes, the last 1000 SWE1s
> had a special plaque stuck to the front of them which resulted in a
> special feature of "List + $1000" to the end buyer.
Don't laugh - we've SOLD a few of these to die-hard SW fans for a whopping
$5000 each ...
I'd rather pay what *I* paid for mine, and go to a trophy shop to get my
own plaque engraved (with the right serial#, at that) ....
- Jonathan
SPAM filter engaged - remove spam munge when you reply !
--
jde...@litz.spamsucks.org | Go Braves !!! | "I hate it when I can't trust
| Play Pinball !! | my own technology!" - LaForge
http://www.litz.org |------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------' "Thrills! Chills! Magic! Prizes!" - Hurricane
Charles Schulz,Friz Freleng,Mel Blanc,Dr Seuss,Roddenberry,Asimov,Henson ...
Sigh ...
Jonathan N. Deitch
when.cows.attack <ad...@my-deja.com> writes:
> Of course, as we all know, making blue Powerballs is the highest
> priority right now, but I'm sure he'll get to some of the lesser games
> eventually.
D*mn !!!
There goes my value!
Micheal D. Webb
Mike
"Mf101723" <mf10...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000918035020...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> >"Pool Players" is a 'safe marketable'
> >pinball because it's aimed towards any age group. You can also place it
> >anywhere from a smoky bar to a church or a school.
>
> church or school? Take a look at that backglass again, dude!
Edloco
On 18 Sep 2000 18:22:23 GMT, mgp...@aol.com (MGPACAK) wrote:
>Gene is a mass horder. He NEVER sells anything and tells you so!!
Isn't he selling Gtb ROCK ($1,000) at his store?
>> He really
>has no Clue to pinball bussiness and at this point has refused to surround
>himself with people that do. I do wish him the best but his attitude must
>change. He NEVER will be successful by himself as he is trying to do.
>> Do you
>know one person that he ever has helped in the pinball circles?? MIke PACAk
HIMSELF ???
My Motto:
If the Girls can't braid their under arm hair,
They Aint British !!!
Edloco
To all Players...Young & Old. It will have only 2 flippers; one will
be the old style 2", & the other will be the modern long one.
It'll also have a Manual Ball Lift.. As well as a Push Button Launch.
He got ths idea from the Wms.Slot Division (You Know: pull the handle
or push the Spin button).
He wants to please the old timers, as well as the "Newbies"...EL
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:58:45 -0700, "Dave Stambaugh"
<pin...@oregonpinball.com> wrote:
>FWIW: A reliable source (and not my usual one) says there is no way Gene
>Cunningham is the buyer. I'm only the messenger...
>Dave
Keith Stelter
Mike has sold me stuff before that most big collectors NEVER would have let
go of!
There can be NO COMPARISON between Mike P and Gene!!!
If Concretebo calls them as he sees them I don't want to hear what he says
when he looks in a mirror !
Later!
Keith
"Lloyd R Olson" <lloyd....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:hsxx5.20878$6f1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Mike though has many times sold rare items at great prices, I've seen
> responses on this group to indicate this and been the recipient of one.
> Thanks Mike ! LTG :)
> CONCRETEBO <concr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000918184923...@ng-co1.aol.com...
> > >MGPACAK wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Gene is a mass horder.
> >
Doug
Gene has (maybe) purchased the pinball division. Wouldn't it kind of
make sense to regroup everthing and be able to support the pinball
industry first before you just start releasing new games???? If you were
a distributor or an operator wouldn't you want to know that there would
be 100% parts and technical support behind them before dropping a wad of
cash on new equipment? Or would it be acceptable to you to purchase X
number of games knowing that you could not even replace the flippers,
targets etc.
Doug
Duncan Brown
wrote:
>That is AWESOME news....I hope someone's not pulling our leg.
>
>I just did a WHOIS on illinoispiball.com, and it has Pat Lawlor as the
>contact and domain owner.
>
>I didn't realize he was involved.
Read my lips: PAT IS NOT INVOLVED WITH ILLINOIS PINBALL!
Duncan
Mf101723
were>a distributor or an operator wouldn't you want to know that there would>be
100% parts and technical support behind them before dropping a wad of>cash on
new equipment?>>>
I guess I'm still missing it....If he makes new game X, I would natrually
expect him to support that and subsequent games. Why should he first be
worrying about making a ramp assembly for a 19xx WMS game?
Kyle Wren
considered "potentially" good news, and here is where we seem to be at
this point in the game, for those of you keeping score at home:
1: Gene Cunningham is a bad person because he outbids people on things
that he wants in... of all places... a public auction!
2: Gene must be evil because he has millions of dollars (we all learned
this by watching Saturday morning cartoons).
3: Gene should have let WMS keep their pinball division, because any
day they were going to surprise the world by releasing PB2K game 3,
which they were secretly developing, all the while telling the world
that pinball was closed. I mean, it would have been a MUCH better thing
for someone with a lot of business smarts, and NO love or interest in
pinball to buy WMS. That fictional person would certainly have had our
interests more in mind than a mega-collector and fan would.
4: Gene, even though he apparently has the business smarts to make
millions of dollars, doesn't know whether he has made a business deal
or not.
5: Gene spent millions of dollars buying WMS so he would have the only
working pinball machines in the world. None of Gene's 25 Firepower
machines would ever again have a cracked plastic (see conspiracy theory
1).
6: Gene puts all the remaining pinball parts on his flying saucer,
shedding his fake human skin as he boards and flys away (OK, I made
that one up, but just so Oliver Stone would still be interested in
buying the rights to the story).
Come on people. I will admit, besides talking to him for a while at an
auction last weekend, I don't know Gene Cunningham from Adam. He may be
all the negative things people have posted, I don't know. He seemed
like a nice enough guy, and he would have still seemed that way if he
had outbid me on something (grow up people). My point is, he SEEMS to
have good intentions, why not give the guy a break and see what he does
with the thing? Maybe he'll fall flat on his face, or maybe he'll turn
the thing around (or at least re-fill those dwindling parts bins).
Anything positive he does is a whole lot more than WMS was going to do
for us. I think they've made it pretty clear, they are not interested
in us any more.
Sorry for the sermon, that was about 6 cents worth I'd say.
Kyle
-------
TAF,MM,ToM,TZ,ST:TNG,WCS94,CP
Mf101723
were going to surprise the world by releasing PB2K game 3,>which they were
secretly developing
Correlary 3a. RGP should exclusively speculate about what Gene will now do
with P2k and WPC, even though the only game he has built so far is based on a
Capcom system, which I'm sure he spent all that ramp-up time and cost just so
he could scrap it and immediately start making MM2000 or Wizard Blocks and
start losing money hand over fist like Williams.
Mitch
> Read my lips: PAT IS NOT INVOLVED WITH ILLINOIS PINBALL!
>
Then why is the owner of the web domain?
And I can't see your lips.
Chris Munson
from him, I've been to his place, he's a great resource to have, quit knocking
him.....
Chris
Jeremy Wilson
says...
>Hey I sell alot of stuff And games and trade others Gene dont give up
>ANYTHING. Gimme a brake
This much is true. Mr. Pacak may hoard, but he does sell stuff. Gene is a
black hole - nothing escapes.
Which is why I suspect the WMS IP is just another item in his collection of
stuff that will never see the light of day again. He now has the ultimate
Bally collectible - the "factory".
--
xe...@inforamp.net - Jeremy Wilson - Modern Pinball Game Collector
Wonder what's inside my wallet? http://www.inforamp.net/~xeno/wallet
Jeremy Wilson
>Then why is the owner of the web domain?
Because he and Louis Koziarz realized that Gene is totally non-technical, and
would never think to register the name, so they did it for him to prevent
someone else from doing it.
Kyle Wren
" Keith Stelter" <del...@datacruz.com> wrote:
> He's a big time game hoarder.
I told myself I was done with this thread, but here I am again.
Why is it wrong to be a "game hoarder"? Especially if your plan is to
eventually open a pinball museum of some type (don't know if that will
happen, I remember someone mentioned Gene might). Even if he doesn't, I
still don't get why what he is doing is wrong.
I think we need someone more familiar with the unspoken "rules of
pinball collecting" to let the rest of us know how many machines we are
allowed to own at one time before we are labeled and blasted on the
Internet like Gene and Mike P have been.
I have 7 machines, hopefully I am not close to my "limit". That is 7
more than anyone else on my street where I live, so maybe to them, I am
already considered and evil hoarder? I once sold a machine to a very
nice guy that had about 40 or 50 machines. If only I had known then
what I know now, I could have stopped the transaction before it was
over, and politely told the buyer that he would need to sell 20 or 30
machines before I could sell him mine. :-)
Kyle
-------
TAF,MM,ToM,TZ,ST:TNG,WCS94,CP
Kerry Stair
You are currently 2 over the limit for a collector. Please sell me
your CP and ST:TNG immediately to comply ;-) :-) Couldn't resist :-)
--
Kerry Stair
Mantis Amusements
Kyle Wren <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8q8ehm$9lv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Keith Stelter
Guys like Tim Arnold have 1000's of games in their collections. Not many
duplicates of titles.
Most up and playing. In fact, Tim has charity events where he lets people in
to play for a fee that is then donated to a good cause.
You can go to Mike Pacak's house and see and play his games.
I myself have up to 100 games at any given time.
I can't fit them all in the gameroom at the same time, so some of them are
at friend's or relative's houses. Others are waiting to be restored IN THE
NEAR FUTURE!
Only one or two are duplicate titles, and that is STRICTLY by coincidence!
Gene has LOTS of games. I have NO problem with that. Hell, I wish that every
one of us could have 1000 games!
What I have a problem with is that he has LOTS of duplicate titles that have
not been set up for years and years. I have no list of his games, but he
always tells people about how many Fireballs or Captain Fantastics or
whatever he has.
They are NOT set up for anyone to enjoy. In fact, if you read the article
that was printed about Gene in his local paper, it says that the games are
all locked up in a barn.
I think that the "spirit" of pinball collecting is one of restoring,
playing, and sharing games.
Maybe I'm a sap, but if I have something that is a duplicate or I'm not
using, I see if someone else in the hobby can use it. Not that I'm saying
that I have to give it away for free, but at least I try to get it into the
hands of someone who will use it to get another machine completed so that it
can be enjoyed.
In the 20 or so years that I have been in the hobby, I have had to part out
good games because someone that had 4 or 5 duplicate backglasses for the
game wouldn't sell one.
That's a BAD THING!
I hope that I'm wrong, but I'm afraid that I'm not.
I think that 5 years from now, the situation will be MUCH worse for us
collectors.
Can you say $100.00 slingshot plastics???
Later,
Keith
Chris Foote
> Can you say $100.00 slingshot plastics???
>
> Later,
> Keith
If it ever comes to that, I'm outta here...
-Chris
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Edloco
I AM familliar with the Unspoken Rule of PB collecting.
RULE # 24A.. You are Not allowed to go more than 2 deep
on Bally Bazzar, Grand Tour, King Tut, El Toro, Zig Zag, See Saw, &
Fireball...
Gene has Broken these Rules.....EL
>I think we need someone more familiar with the unspoken "rules of
>pinball collecting" to let the rest of us know how many machines we are
>allowed to own at one time before we are labeled and blasted on the
>Internet like Gene and Mike P have been.
My Motto:
If the Girls can't braid their under arm hair,
They Aint From OZ !!!
Joe Schober
>I think that 5 years from now, the situation will be MUCH worse for us
>collectors.
>Can you say $100.00 slingshot plastics???
An optimistic view:
It seems likely at this point that WMS, left to themselves, would just allow
their parts inventory to dwindle into nothingness. All that would be left
would be whatever repros dedicated hobbyists could produce. Not hopeless, but
I suspect most such hobbyists have a finite amount of time and money to invest
in such projects, so it's kinda slow going. So if you need a part for game X
and no one has repro'ed it, you're just SOL, no matter how much money you have
to spend.
So let's assume Gene is a reasonably smart guy and actually wants to profit
from his acquisition. I bet he knows that very few ops or collectors will pay
$100 for a pair of slingshot plastics... not enough people to generate serious
cash flow. So instead I think it's reasonable to expect that he'll offer parts
at an accessible price: not without some profit margin, certainly, but still
cheap enough that people can actually buy them. Gene gets his cash flow, we
get our parts.
I hope so, anyway. :)
--Joe
Aeneas
Hi,
I've posted this message before but somehow it didn't get through to the
newsgroup -
sorry if you receive this twice.
roby <co...@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:eEfx5.9743$Rt3.5...@nntp2.onemain.com...
> I'm trying to think positive in this negative world of modern pinball
> production. Keep that in mind while reading . . .
>
> I've been watching and listening to all items concerning Gene and Illinois
> Pinball over the last year or so. And I've never shared a thought until
now.
> I'm a bit concerned about Gene's whole "burn your neighbor" style at the
> auction(s) and in his professional life. This man loves pinball
collecting.
> I do too.But, this man wants them all. Why? Because he is also an
investor.
> Here is a possibility.
>
> What if Gene buys up everything he can and locks up the market. I'm
talking
> about holding his rights and not producing. Let's say this man continues
to
> go around buying pins and holding them. Someone with his money can hold
> enough of the market to cause games to shoot way way up. Then he can begin
> to unload his stock for an incredible profit. Serious profit. Maybe this
is
> not a good thing after all.
>
> Also, consider that he does re-release older pins. I'm betting that they
are
> not exact - especially if a newer OS is used. Example - Xenon running on a
> WPC platform. Before you hammer me on that; consider PCB production costs.
> It would be cheaper to keep everything as standard as possible on all pins
> and do some software upgrading - as opposed to having a re-run on each
> hardware platform. And Gene's re-releases are not imposing the values of
> Gene's seriously huge classic pinball stock either. That way, he makes big
> bucks on re-releases and big bucks on original vintage machines too.
>
> What do you think??
> A very not-so-optimistic anymore-Rob C:>
>
I have to admit I had similar thoughts reading this news..
He sounds to be a very good business man and investor, so his actions now
will not be because he likes pinball or just wants to help collectors. It is
to
make money out of it.
OK he may be a pin collector (or just an investor), but that only is in his
advance: he knows the business well, knows the possibilities, etc.
He probably likes pinball a lot, so just turned his hobby into his work :-)
(I probably would do the same if I had the $$)
He sold his car collection ? That's maybe because prices of oldtimers raised
a lot at the end of the 80ies but then took a sharp drop and are still low
now.. If he has bought early enough and sold while prices were high he has
made a gigantic profit. (on the opposite site, if he has bought his
collection
when prices were raising and only recently liquidated his collection, he has
made a huge loss :-(
Pinballs are in the same situation. Prices are low, he can easily buy all
rights. Don't forget he bought the best brand there was: Williams,
market leader for years, millions of machines installed and people
continue to need parts for those, and there is hardly any competition.
Operators still need new machines (less then years before
but there's still a nice demand) but hardly can buy any.
Yes with this business plan you can get a loan from a bank.
(can you give other examples of markets where there is worldwide
only 1 huge market leader with millions clients, and only 1 small
competitor ??)
If he's aiming at collectors, this means he'll probably produce wanted parts
for a lot of money. He might do re-runs of plastics that a lot of people
need (he has the rights, so he also has the legal right to stop small
reproductions by other people !!), but won't make millions of them and
sell them at near production cost like $2 each.Instead only do a limited run
and ask $50. The serious collectors who want to keep their shiny
10/20/30/..-year old pinball machine as new well spend the money, as
they do now looking for NOS parts.
The good news for pinball is that out of stock parts will disappear and
everything may become available, the bad news is that you may pay
a lot for all these parts.
And maybe you won't know the difference between real NOS parts and his
re-runs. (real collectors will still be so difficult they only want real NOS
and not reruns :-)
He won't sell his whole collection at once, this would drop prices too much,
but releasing some slowly is definately an option (unless he wants to start
his pinball museum). If you buy all Fireballs you can get your hands on, it
is
to raise the worth of your own collection (because there are less available
on the market).
I collect comic books and have seen it done there.. shops buying almost all
books of a limited edition and only releasing them years later, one by one,
for 10 times the original price. You want it, you can only get it at his
shop,
for his price. Don't want to pay, bad luck.
(if Gene wants Fireballs btw, I've seen 2 here in Belgium for $1000 each,
and a Capt Fantastic for about $350 :-)
I hope I'm wrong in some parts and that pinball collectors will be able to
restore all the games, as parts will be available at a reasonable price,
and that he'll be able to increase popularity of pinball..
Aeneas.
Paul Sanderson
earlier, it's just parts. My thoughts are that he will start small, get
established, and gradually build the company up. I don't expect some earth
shaking news from his company for a while at least.
Anyway, I gathered all the "good bits" and wrote out a news post for my web
site, so if anyone out there is too lazy to go through all these posts, you
can read the news article at http://www.gamesurge.com/news.shtml#969435957
Hmm, gonna be a interesting few months, but like other people have been
saying, let's wait for some sort of official announcement first.
P.D.Sanderson
webmaster: http://www.gamesurge.com
"Kyle Wren" <kw...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8q2or6$nki$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Foreword: I specifically asked Mr. Cunningham if it was cool to spread
> this around yet. He stated he is legally bound to not disclose the
> terms of the arrangement until things are final, but I was free to
> share anything he told me on the 'net. Since this would appear to fall
> into the category of "very good news", I am doing just that.
>
> Gene Cunningham purchased the complete remains of the WMS pinball
> division Friday. Rights, parts stock, everything. They will be moving
> everything to Bloomington and sorting through things for a couple of
> months, but here is what he said we could expect in the future:
>
> - Although he owns the rights (and prototypes of games 3 and 4), he is
> not interested in going further with the PB2K platform. He would be
> willing to license the rights if anyone else did.
>
> - Expect the situation with parts to improve once they get settled in.
> He was talking about re-runs of ancient stuff like KISS playfields, let
> alone the newer games that have had parts go NLA. Sounds like his
> intention is to take care of the collectors, so can we maybe stop the
> current buying frenzy/hoarding that is going on?? Pretty please?
>
> - Expect re-runs of older classic games, and recent classic games,
> although all will bear the "Bally" label regardless. There will also be
> some new game development later on down the line.
>
> - "Pool Player" will still be released, but later on this year. I
> didn't think to ask him if it will be an IPB or Bally game.
>
> Very nice guy. We met him at the Indianapolis auction. I wish him all
> the best.
Kyle Wren
" Keith Stelter" <del...@datacruz.com> wrote:
> What I have a problem with is that he has LOTS of duplicate titles
> that have not been set up for years and years. I have no list of his
> games, but he always tells people about how many Fireballs or Captain
> Fantastics or whatever he has.
I'm not sure why that is a reason to flame someone. His philosophy
about game collecting is differant than yours or mine, but I don't
think that makes him a "bad" person.
> They are NOT set up for anyone to enjoy. In fact, if you read the
> article that was printed about Gene in his local paper, it says that
> the games are all locked up in a barn.
Well, he told me that about 650 of the 1200 games are, in fact, set up
and playable right now. And as far as locked up in a barn, my seven
games are locked up in my basement, and I can't say I would be really
open to the idea of strangers showing up that wanted to play them. Not
from a hoarding perspective, but just from the security and nuisense
perspectives. I have as many parties as my wife will tolerate, so my
friends and relatives get to play them a lot. But the games are not
on "location" anymore, they are in my private collection.
> I think that the "spirit" of pinball collecting is one of restoring,
> playing, and sharing games.
The man told me his idea of a "good time" was turning off his cell
phone, going back to the barn with his tools and paints and working on
his games. He seems to meet spirit rule number 1. I can only assume he
plays them some, so he probably meets rule number 2. As far as sharing,
I have no idea, maybe it relates to my earlier point about security.
> I think that 5 years from now, the situation will be MUCH worse for us
> collectors.
> Can you say $100.00 slingshot plastics???
This point I agree with you on. Unless someone with a lot of money and
a love of the hobby/industry were to buy the remains of WMS pinball and
do something with it. In my opinion, that may be happening now. Only
time will tell.
Michelle & Boyd Bottorff
> He won't sell his whole collection at once, this would drop prices too
> much, but releasing some slowly is definately an option (unless he wants
> to start his pinball museum). If you buy all Fireballs you can get your
> hands on, it is to raise the worth of your own collection (because there
> are less available on the market). I collect comic books and have seen it
> done there.. shops buying almost all books of a limited edition and only
> releasing them years later, one by one, for 10 times the original price.
> You want it, you can only get it at his shop, for his price. Don't want to
> pay, bad luck.
The problem is, some things lose their value over time-- and I think
"classic" pins are going to fit that category.
True, hoarding a lot of one title will dry up the supply-- but age is
going to kill the demand. Most of the under-30 crowd (the group who
will be buying pinballs in 10 years) have never seen a Fireball-- never
heard of it, unless they hang out here-- and WON'T be impressed by it
when they do find it. I know that when I found another one, I had to
think back and remember that, for its time, it WAS an incredible piece.
--
Family webpage: http://home.sprintmail.com/~mbottorff/index.html
Lady Lavender's Filksongs: http://www.freemars.org/lavender/index.html
25r:2a:1p
Myers Paula
wasted my $ playing it as a kid !
Alan
Michelle & Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> "Aeneas" <averheNOSPAM@@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > He won't sell his whole collection at once, this would drop prices too
> > much, but releasing some slowly is definately an option (unless he wants
> > to start his pinball museum). If you buy all Fireballs you can get your
> > hands on, it is to raise the worth of your own collection (because there
> > are less available on the market). I collect comic books and have seen it
> > done there.. shops buying almost all books of a limited edition and only
> > releasing them years later, one by one, for 10 times the original price.
> > You want it, you can only get it at his shop, for his price. Don't want to
> > pay, bad luck.
>
RonKZ650
>I
>wasted my $ playing it as a kid !
>Alan
I always thought the same thing. Even back in about 1975 I just hated that
game. It was one of those games where I'd score 600 points where the replay was
set at 5000. No fun. Anybody ever beat that game? Not me.