Putting ballsofsteel.net to rest
cmo...@gmail.com
Two days and eight years ago, ballsofsteel.net was conceived as a
decent place to provide images of artwork related to pinball machines.
Sadly, that legacy dies today.
I'm sure many will condemn me for this, but after years of going back
and forth with someone who purports to be Wayne Gillard, I'm tired of
fighting to keep ballsofsteel.net up.
You may not have noticed, but currently http://www.ballsofsteel.net is
unreachable, because the domain was pulled offline by my registrar,
GoDaddy. Apparently GoDaddy's policy is to pull a site for a minimum
of 10 days, no matter what, for any copyright complaint they receive,
no matter the validity. If the other party seeks injunction in court,
it is down indefinitely, until the plaintiff doesn't get their
injunction, which could be months. Not exactly the most customer-
friendly approach, especially if your site is your primary revenue
stream. Thankfully, mine is not.
My involvement in the hobby has been minimal for the last several
years. I've run ballsofsteel.net simply because I always have. As you
most likely know, I have never received (nor asked for) a penny
towards the operation of the site, and with my waning interest in
pinball and increasing annoyance level with the person who claims via
email to be Wayne, I've decided it's not worth the energy anymore. I
know that many of you have expressed your appreciation for providing
the site, and I know that many of you have downloaded full copies of
what was available.
Effective immediately, I've removed all scan content from the site. I
know that some of you will ask me to place it back online for a short
time, but I do not plan to do so. Some will ask to leave non-licensed
or non-Wayne are on the site. It's just not worth the grief to me to
track it all.
There may still be legal ramifications to come from this towards me,
of course. My lawyers tell me that I'm very clearly not in violation
of any copyrights, be we all know courts are not necessarily just.
Someone does need to stand up for the community, and I seriously
questioned whether that person should be me. Unfortunately for you
all, I just don't have the time in my schedule for this.
If you have something to say on the matter, feel free to contact me
directly, or via post here. I'll try to watch the thread for a short
time.
Thank you to all of the wonderful folks who've supported me over the
last eight years by providing your user-contributed content. The site
would not have existed if it wasn't for you. Perhaps someday when some
less anti-pinball licensees come onto the scene, an archive like
ballsofsteel.net can rise again.
Cheers,
Chris
Lloyd Olson
<cmo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:febe5c6c-f431-417e...@c11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Borygard
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
<cmo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:febe5c6c-f431-417e...@c11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Worst Ball Ever
Thanks for your hard work through the years. I'll misss your site.
Steve (in Escalon, CA)
beaver
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
Joe Grenuk
Joe
Gott Lieb?
for the past 8 years.
Jim
On May 24, 9:03 pm, "cmoa...@gmail.com" <cmoa...@gmail.com> wrote:
machine.slave
community. Though I've only been a collector for 3 years myself, I've
appreciated all your site had to offer.
Second... Wayne, you should be ashamed of yourself. The fact that you
stepped up to license parts for sale for Bally WMS machines was both
commendable and respectable. What a great thing, that a hobbyist
stepped in to save all these wonderful parts for the rest of the
community. You could've taken that and been hailed as the savior of
pinball. Instead you've turned into its antichrist. Congratulations.
We're all just hobbyists who want to clean up and restore our machines
and make them more enjoyable, and we're doing it with what limited
resources we have available in such a niche market. It's simply mind-
boggling that this would anger someone so much.
BUT I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. So to end
it, I say again.. a big THANK YOU to Chris for his hard work. If you
ever find yourself in Toronto, let me know. The beer's on me. :)
- B
prowlerman99
Chris,
I really hate to hear that the sites' coming down and your out of the
hobby for good.
The work you have done to keep that site going is very much
appreciated and you will be missed.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Brian
Cliffy
pre-wayne so he should cut you some slack there. It was a brave new
world back then and everyone was just trying to help everyone else as
very little was available on the market. You did yeoman's work and it is
appreciated.
--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
Home of the world's finest pinball protectors
http://www.passionforpinball.com
Tom in_NoVA
Tom M
<cmo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:febe5c6c-f431-417e...@c11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Evets
I am most grateful for your contributions to the hobby. I've made use
of your site on more than one occasion.
Be well,
Steve
Radius
I was first getting my bearings in the hobby, but it still struck me
as an incredible resource (looking over it, I find I have three
bookmarks to the site).
I feel that your stamina and effort need to be applauded, and
especially what you took on, and are continuing to endure, for the
benefit of the people in the hobby. The fact that you had to, and
continue to, suffer harassment and abuse at the whim of some small
minded leech is such an absolute waste and insult, but unfortunately
not unremarkable when talking about humans. Seems that some self-
perceived big fish, needs to splash about, sacrificing gracious and
true efforts like yours, just to prove themselves "superior" and to
show they can.
Tragic loss and miscarriage of the concept of justice.
Thanks much for your time and effort,
Ray~
caminodude
Thanks for all you did Chris. It was an awesome tool that will be
greatly missed.
Chris B
Kerry Imming
> All,
>
> Two days and eight years ago, ballsofsteel.net was conceived as a
> decent place to provide images of artwork related to pinball machines.
> Sadly, that legacy dies today.
>
Thanks for all you did, and sorry it turned out to be such a hassle.
- Kerry
barnhart_pinball
eight years...amazing.
One more resource down the tubes. Seems lately, restoring pins has become a
lot less fun.
Mitch :/
--
"That deaf dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball"
Fishbeadtwo
Never had the good fortune to visit it but applaud your efforts! Now
about that Wayne douche bag..........It would be terrible if nobody
bought anything he had ANYTHING to with huh?
barakandl
Thanks for the site, you did a good job.
Fuck Wayne too.... He is such a little bitch about copyrights. The
games are so old by now.
barakandl
I just sent Wayne another crappy email through his web base app. I
hope it bothers him if even just slightly.
Hammer5550
community. Hopefully one day someone else will get the Williams
licensing and then they will do something to help promote the pinball
community and not try and kill it. I also hope that if this happens
then they will have their lawyers send a letter to Wayne and tell him
to take down his site for copyright infringement. It’s a sad day when
we lose a good site especially when pinball isn’t exactly thriving.
JPScranton
site could be rar'ed and uploaded to a bittorrent site. It was an
incredible resource but just cause the site is down doesnt mean all
the work should go down the toilet. I would gladly host it if you had
it archived and Wayne can send me all the threatening letters he
wants.
Hugh
Thanks for keeping the site up when you did Chris. Its a shame it has
to come down in this way.
Hugh
Tom G
>
> - Show quoted text -
This stinks. You did an awesome job with the site. Thank You.
cmo...@gmail.com
received. Thank you to all of you.
Cheers,
Chris
mdolshan
Let me just add my two cents. I thought that ballsofsteel was a
fabulous resource. I used it more than once to make an impossible-to-
find plastic. My hat's off to you, Chris, not just for your material
support of the site, but also for the idealism that drove the whole
enterprise. Your site captured the idea of "community," and will stand
as the gold standard for future efforts to share the collective energy
-- and efforts -- of pinball fanatics like us.
Many thanks for your hard work and persistence over the years. You
certainly set a high bar.
Best,
Matthew
PinAffliction
Thanks for an incredible resource, one of those "You don't know what
you've got til it's gone" moments.
Bravo machine.slave, excellent reply post, I agree completely.
Scott
Chris Hibler
Decode this Wayne...FTBDU.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
Dan Q very much
There once was a blunder down under
The hobby of pinball he'd plunder
His handle was Wayno
You ask, is he gay? No,
But the sound of his name makes us chunder.
Rest assured every last bit of your work is still out there and it
will still be used.
maldo
Wayne Gillard is the worst person in this hobby/industry/clusterfuck.
You honestly could have Charles Mason as head of Gottlieb and be
better off than this jack ass in Australia using his pseudo army of
henchmen lawyers who would throw babies into cauldrons of boiling
water if it were stipulated in the contract.
I await the day he loses these rights to anything Williams/Bally. Not
that the next jackass would be any better but really, can they be any
worse?
Fred Kemper
was much appreciated and shall be missed.
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************
<cmo...@gmail.com> wrote
...
lukex
> Thanks much for what you have given to the hobby. It
> was much appreciated and shall be missed.
>
> --
> Fred
> TX
> CARGPB#8
> ******************
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > All,
>
> > Two days and eight years ago, ballsofsteel.net was conceived as a
> > decent place to provide images of artwork related to pinball machines.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hear you Chris !! There is a moment when it is all not worth it
regardless of the legal position.
Damn shame for the whole community. Will probably turn some project
pins into parted out machines.
Luke
miracleman
I am sure someone was crazy enough to download pretty much all of what
you had up on the site, and can offer it to people in need when they
ask for it over the forthcoming years.
Heck I'd guess it has to be around 6.4 gigs, at least.
Just guessing...
And I'm sure WayNO is sitting reading all this, right now, naked, with
a keyboard in one hand and tweezers in the other, saying
"That's right, bitches, I own this hobby."
nikki2beeps
First off I have to thank Chris as well, had to be years of headaches
and sometimes enough is enough. I probably would have done the same
thing,well, I would have given 24-48 hrs notice. Sometimes its best to
let the cards fall and see what happens. I hope that someone who knew
this was coming would please send me an email and fill me in on the
details.
pinballoz
twilightzonepinball
> All,
>
> Two days and eight years ago, ballsofsteel.net was conceived as a
> decent place to provide images of artwork related to pinball machines.
Would someone please stop this mother______. Do all the major part
vendors sell this guys stuff? (TPF)
-Tom
http://home.myfairpoint.net/vze8f4tt/tomstwilightzonepinballmachineaccessories/index.html
Pinball News
> I hope it bothers him if even just slightly.
No you didn't. You sent it to me instead.
Cheers,
Martin.
www.pinballnews.com
theefxman
a least a few of the artwork/plastic scans left on archive.org
http://web.archive.org/web/20070704022717/http://www.ballsofsteel.net/
That's the last saved page, from 2007, better than nothing. Get what
you can before the archived pictures expire.. some already have..
Rob
badbilly27
And Wayne, there could have been a compromise position. For the
artwork you are reproducing you could have asked Chris to remove from
his website so not to conflict with your commercial interests and
investment in copyrights. All those that you are not doing anything
with could have stayed up for the benefit of the hobby. You have a
right to make money on your investment, but if you're not doing
anything with a majority of it - where was the harm? Greed is a
terrible thing.
So ball is in your court Wayne. Now what? Are you going to build a
website like ballsofsteel and allow people to buy artwork like itunes
- one piece at a time so the hobby can thrive and survive? Or is this
another MM effort?
Only way to let your voices be heard is for all those who ordered a MM
to demand a refund and threaten legal action if not returned. That
may open his eyes some. But alas, if you've kept your money there
this long I doubt any of you will do anything. Greed works both ways.
The quest for a MM or BBB sometimes isn't so much for the gameplay as
it is viewed as an investment. But that's what makes the world turn I
guess.
BEEPNUTZ
Thanks Chris.....................
dothedoo
I know you smile when you take down another resource like this.
And I smile even more knowing each time you do you lose even more
business.
Bill Stahly
GaryTheNoTrashCougar
Thank you for all that you have done. I have used your site a few
times and they helped make my machines look much better! I am very
sad to see this go. I wish that WMS would smarten up and revoke
Wayno's licensing rights. He is making WMS look really bad. I really
hate to see stuff like this happen. Thanks again Chris for saving
some of our machines.
P.S. I am watching the torrent sites for the files. Something tells
me that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and now all of
our files are going to go underground.
--Scott
Skeets
occasion, it surely will be missed.
Skeets :(
IMMark
Chris,
I am sorry to hear of this...but certainly can't blame you. All of
your hard work and dedication over the years is greatly appreciated.
As far as Wayne goes, what could be said? I have never seen a heard a
good word and a positive impact on this great hobby of ours!
I also second, any chance of a bit torrent making its way to the
archives of the internet!!!!!
Best wishes
Mark
Peter H. Coffin
> It's the only time I have been ashamed to be an Australian
There is no cause so good and just that it doesn't attract its share of
egoists and assholes. True for both pinball and Australia, I'm sure...
--
95. My dungeon will have its own qualified medical staff complete with
bodyguards. That way if a prisoner becomes sick and his cellmate
tells the guard it's an emergency, the guard will fetch a trauma
team instead of opening up the cell for a look. --Evil Overlord List
karmatose
I'm setting up a private tracker on a server I just put into service.
20mbps up and down. It'd make a really decent seedbox. Might be able
to help on this one.
GaryTheNoTrashCougar
> 20mbps up and down. It'd make a really decent seedbox. Might be able
> to help on this one.
Excellent! I bet there are a few people that have a bunch of stuff to
contribute. I'm just sayin. :)
--Scott
Player Pinballs
It was a great resource, thanks Chris!
L
Deadly
with GoDaddy. While it stands to reason we can;t be a 100% sure. Ya
have to admit it's super easy to blame everything on Wayne as the
motive is there.
However I was just going to recommend (and someone beat me to it) a
torrent be started. I have a FIOS business account and also run my own
server out of my house. I would be glad to open up my FTP so someone
(*coughchriscough*) could upload the art to me and I'd create a
torrent. It's an offer I'll leave it at that.
kenny_ii
> First off, I thank you Chris for everything you've shared with the
> community. Though I've only been a collector for 3 years myself, I've
> appreciated all your site had to offer.
>
> Second... Wayne, you should be ashamed of yourself. The fact that you
> stepped up to license parts for sale for Bally WMS machines was both
> commendable and respectable. What a great thing, that a hobbyist
> stepped in to save all these wonderful parts for the rest of the
> community. You could've taken that and been hailed as the savior of
> pinball. Instead you've turned into its antichrist. Congratulations.
>
> We're all just hobbyists who want to clean up and restore our machines
> and make them more enjoyable, and we're doing it with what limited
> resources we have available in such a niche market. It's simply mind-
> boggling that this would anger someone so much.
>
> BUT I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. So to end
> it, I say again.. a big THANK YOU to Chris for his hard work. If you
> ever find yourself in Toronto, let me know. The beer's on me. :)
>
Forfeiture of copyright
I really think this an avenue to explore. There is precedent for once
a copyright is forfeited, you can't take it back. Clearly Williams
was aware of multiple non-licensed reproductions over fifteen years
ago. They chose to let those folks operate for many years before all
of a sudden trying to recover copyright after selling the rights to
third parties. It generally does not work that way. I think a good
arguement could be made for forfeiture. Just my 2c.
K2
machine.slave
what they had to do by law.. Everyone has to follow the same rules
with the DMCA. That being said, a counter-notice can be filed which
basically absolves Godaddy (or Ebay, etc., etc.) from any legal harm
that may result in a lawsuit.
I filed a few counter notices with Ebay myself.. not because I wanted
to re-list my items (though I'm allowed to now, thanks to meeting the
demands of WMS), but because DMCA notices go on permanent record.
Since I had done nothing wrong, I didn't want that to be on my record
with Ebay.. it only takes a few of them before they permanently
suspend your account.
Very interesting thing, the DMCA.. I've done a lot of homework on it,
myself. Sadly though, as Chris pointed out, it's a never-ending
battle... you can have DMCA notices filed against you (and
subsequently, counter-notices filed against them) until the cows come
home. It's a loop that goes on until one of the parties gives up.
Hans
other hobbies that go down the same aggressive route (Games Workshop,
for example.)
The key is that Williams really still holds all the rights to
everything, and have licensed them to somebody else. If we, as a
community, were able to get them to declare their proprietary pinball
artwork to be public domain, this whole issue would just go away.
Then anybody could get into the market, and let the best format's and
providers win. I just mailed out a letter to WMS Legal to suggest
such a proposal, but I also play lotto once in a while, and I give
them about the same odds. If they think there's enough of a market,
and think they can make money, they're just going to keep at it like
currently. If they think there's too little of a market to bother,
and it's not cost effective to keep fighting every little e-bay
auction, they may just relent. But it's a very narrow scope that
we're aiming for to get them to put everything public domain.
As to Wayne, I think a lot of this also comes from copyright law as
it's applied in Australia and other nations based on UK Commonwealth
laws. If he doesn't aggressively pursue every slight infraction, no
matter how small, the laws down there basically sides against him.
Keeping ethics and personality out of the topic, he pretty much has to
do what he's doing in order to maintain the licensing from Williams.
Unfortunately it just hurts everybody all around, because I don't
exactly see anybody jumping at the chance to make Varkon plastics or
stencils for Solar Fire.
At current I don't see the problem going away, even if the names and
faces change, because the artwork rights are still valid even if
product isn't available. Crossing national boundaries like this just
makes the issue more complicated, but in the end it's all up to what
Williams does and how long they want to hold everything close at hand.
-Hans
Silverball Mike
Chris,
I too appreciate all you have done for our hobby. It's a shame when an
ass hole decides the fate of so many collectors. If you need a place
to send your art work, let me know. I have the capacity to store it
and the ability to distribute it when asked for in a descrete manner.
Again; thanks fore all you have done.
(remember kids, it's not copywrite infringement to ask about artwork)
Mike
Geoff_M
signed and sent over a petition, they'll finally hear us..?
Hans
> Maybe if we went through the proper channels at Williams or even
> signed and sent over a petition, they'll finally hear us..?
The problem is, too big of a petition might make them think the market
is bigger than it really is, and thus only clamp down tighter.
I did send what I hope to be a well structured letter to their legal/
licensing department today. That's supposedly the "right" channel.
-Hans
cody chunn
Not a very good business decision to license rights to the tune of $1M (or
so the dingo claims) then turn around and make 'em public domain.
No, we will just have to endure the stupidity and malevolence of WayNo as he
forces products he will never make into obsolescence. A real piece of work,
that pile is.
Again, I suggest if you want to make WMS Industries "hear" you, go to their
internet stock page and tell them how you feel about their flunky from Oz
giving them such a bad name and ruining any legacy they might have had with
pinball.
Nothing will help, though. WMS couldn't care less about pinball and Wayne is
too incompetent and brutish to get anything positive done. WMS accomplished
what they wanted: to bury pinball.
The good thing is that Stern is making good stuff and you can buy all the
spare parts you will ever need.
--
-cody
--
[Note: Following any advice given in this message
may result in property damage, minor injury, serious injury or CERTAIN
DEATH!!!
Follow advice at great risk to your personal well-being and financial
security.]
"Hans" <ha...@siegecraft.us> wrote in message
news:2c8ab437-a6b0-491b...@y12g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
underlord
Trust me, no real 'investors' left dude, insiders know. Rats jumped
ship. You are all flogging a dead horse here. For ME to say that,
it must be true! Been nice here on RGP since I gave up on TPF
remakes awhile back.
--Rick.
brainsnap
is attempting to run this ( once faboulous ) hobby into the ground.
Whether it be small penis syndrome or whether he was picked on as a
kid and is seeking revenge against the World , I have no idea .....but
I do know that this pile of **** CERTAINLY MUST have serious 'issues'
and is just about the most evil character that I have come across in
my 44 years on this planet.
I state again that I personally believe it is ALL lies from him, he
will NEVER produce a game and he will certainly never replicate these
type of parts or many others he has 'banned'.
Another poster said he felt ashamed to be Australian , I used to think
that way too , but you know what - I refuse to think that way
anymore ......I am DAMN PROUD to be a bloody Australian , we are good
bloody people with some FANTASTIC pinball collectors / hobbyists &
some of the BEST restorers on the planet who I am please to know,
assist and be associated with , but the trouble is that we are
globally burdened by being instantly associated with a big bully who's
sole intention appears to be wasting all his daddy's inherited $$ on
wrecking a good product, wrecking what was once regarded as THE brand
name in this hobby and destroying peoples wills along the way all
seemingly to suit his small minded ego.
THAT is what is shameful.
Chris - as others have said - a massive thanks for the past efforts -
and keep your chin up mate.
Wotto
machine.slave
are damn fine folk, and I've been more than happy to ship my mods down
under. :) You guys are the Canadians of the southern hemisphere lol
eduardomal...@gmail.com
Eduardo (eduardomal...@gmail.com)