Premium Limited Edition version of Avatar
World of Pinball
We are going to make a Premium Limited Edition version of our Avatar
pinball, and this Limited Edition will be unlike any we have done
before.
We are not just decorating the normal Pro version of this game. The
Avatar Limited Edition will have added game play and mechanical
features.
Like all fine art and collectibles, each game will be numbered, with
it's plaque and its authenticity certificate marked from number 1 of
250
to number 250 of 250.
Additions to Avatar contained in the Avatar Limited Edition will
include:
--Amp Suit with legs that march up and down, activated by solenoids
--Transporter cover that opens and closes, operated by an added motor
--A white pinball mixed among the silver balls and a sensor so that
the
game will increase scoring when the white ball is in play
--Shaker motor assembly
--Added game rules and computer code to operate these added devices
--More figurines decorating the game, including
--Banshee figure hovering over the plastic ramp
--Colonel Quaritch inside the Amp suit
--Navi's mounted at the Navi target bank
--Increased number of control lamps and general illumination lamps
--Metal lower arch, enhanced with light up blue translucent windows
--Playfield support slides
--Traditional lockdown mechanism and front molding
--Playfields 1 to 25 will be signed
--Added playfield hard coat
--And of course full chrome package - side armor, lock bar, hinges,
legs
The distributor price for Avatar Limited Edition with this really
exciting added package is $4,899. Games number 1 and 2 are already
committed to James Cameron and John Landau, the director and producer
of
the Avatar movie. As is the case with numbered art and numbered
remakes
of pinball machines, the very low numbered art and games warrant a
higher price when sold by you. The price from us for numbers 3 to 9
will be $5,299 and for 10 through 25 will be $4,999.
Production will be late this month. We will not require deposits as
we
have with some earlier Premium Limited Edition games and as has been
required for numbered remakes of pinball machines. As with our other
Premium models, there are no cash discounts or warranty allowances.
We
will require payment before delivery of these unique, numbered Avatar
Limited Edition pinball machines.
Best regards
Gary
--
Gary Stern
President
Stern Pinball, Inc.
2020 Janice Avenue
Melrose Park, IL 60160-1011. USA
Tel: +1-708-786-7036. Fax: +1-708-345-7813
Mobile: +1-847-278-1398
email: gary....@sternpinball.com
www.sternpinball.com
Worst Ball Ever
Lower numbered art prints sell for more, since the quality of the
earlier prints is typically higher (before the printing plates show
signs of wear).
I wonder how that applies to pinball machines...
Steve (in Escalon, CA)
MHS
Gotta say I view this as a good thing. I'm sure the haters will say
this stuff should have been in the original, but stern just as easily
could have done nothing.
Does anyone know if the white ball is a powerball or something else?
DiscoDuck
this, even though my initial playing experiance with the regular
Avatar pin has been rather average.
That is a definate upgrade.
I wonder if the people who bought the regular Avatar were informed
that the LE would have new toys and rules. This seems a change from
the previous LE's that have been put out where it has just been a trim
package and maybe a shaker motor...but not a rules change.
Jon
MHS
If you buy it, i'll be over.
eBay_Sucks
Stern is going to post on RGP under the name of "World of Pinball"?
Look at the profile of this user and his limited posts, especially his
comments on Dec 19, 2009
Now, I might believe what Lloyd previously posted about an Avatar LE,
but I certainly wouldn't get excited about the comments of a fake Gary
Stern.
DiscoDuck
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but do you really think Gary
> Stern is going to post on RGP under the name of "World of Pinball"?
>
> Look at the profile of this user and his limited posts, especially his
> comments on Dec 19, 2009
>
>
> Now, I might believe what Lloyd previously posted about an Avatar LE,
> but I certainly wouldn't get excited about the comments of a fake Gary
> Stern.
Could it be possible this was a repost of a email to whoever World of
Pinball happens to be then?
Steven
> this stuff should have been in the original, but stern just as easily
> could have done nothing.
Same here. Sure there'll be critics that the early buyers already have
the game and that that sucks not being able to buy this one in the
first place, for if they knew this one was coming, they'd have waited.
But still I think it's a good thing! Though I'd have that feeling a
bit too if I already owned an Avatar, it's a thing that just happens:
the same thing happens with other products as well (special limeted
edition DVD packages, etc.). If these sell well (and I think they
will), I can imagine more 'Pinball Pro LE/Plus' will be made of future
models as well and that's surely a good thing!
MrBally
Jack played it, he likes it!
kbliznick
version first and now are offering what should have been the normal
version.
freeplayer
> Stern is going to post on RGP under the name of "World of Pinball"?
>
> Look at the profile of this user and his limited posts, especially his
> comments on Dec 19, 2009
>
>
> Now, I might believe what Lloyd previously posted about an Avatar LE,
> but I certainly wouldn't get excited about the comments of a fake Gary
> Stern.
I have to agree, that looks like a press release cut and paste job. I
would find it hard to believe that Gary Stern would take 5 minutes of
his time to post any comment on this group. I could be wrong but I've
never seen a post, profile, or any other positive statement directly
from the owner of Stern Pinball, someone please correct me and I'll
stand corrected if I'm wrong.
Jason
biggest obstacle Stern Pinball has.
Something tells me this post is a joke! ;)
MB
This is a legitimate post by Gary.
Will be a nice game. Wish they would do this with IM ! Or TRON !!
Marc
AFM_TZ
saying cant be true. If it is, sounds like a very nice offering.
mnpinball
> When reading it, i was impressed by the updates - but my mind was
> saying cant be true. If it is, sounds like a very nice offering.
It's true, and real. I got the email from the dist. today as posted
above..
I knew about this right after expo and was a rumor then.
Lloyd Olson
distributors. Post wasn't from stern.
"freeplayer" <fclan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f964dbcc-d98a-417d...@35g2000prt.googlegroups.com...
Jason
"stripped" Avatar, then I am royally peeved right about now when a
drastically enhanced version is offered for a few hundred more...
Lloyd Olson
then buy the LE version. LTG :)
"Jason" <react...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4966a2a2-d544-4e66...@fv1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
MrBally
Just like car companies. New model, first year seems greta. Next year,
more bells & whistles are added. The Germans sprinkle in a few more
horsepower in each engine etc.
Jason
Actually, there was a small class action lawsuit with Toyota over just
this type of thing, which Toyota lost. It involved the Supra in
96-98. I have a friend who got cash back from Toyota over it.
And even if you do sell your 2-3 month old Avatar to buy the new one,
it's just going to cost you that much MORE now for the "real" Avatar
pin. It's terrible for the people who bought the first Avatar any way
you cut it. Almost a slap in the face to the loyal consumers who buy
right out of the gate.
Rare Hero
> And even if you do sell your 2-3 month old Avatar to buy the new one,
> it's just going to cost you that much MORE now for the "real" Avatar
> pin. It's terrible for the people who bought the first Avatar any way
> you cut it. Almost a slap in the face to the loyal consumers who buy
> right out of the gate.
This may backfire on future releases, like Tron....I know a lot of
pinheads are salivating for Tron - but might hold their cash in case
there's an LE. If I already had an Avatar, I'd be miffed. I think it
would be in Stern's best interests to announce all versions
simultaneously - even if they aren't going to be released at the same
time. I bet anyone who bought a regular Avatar would have bought the
LE, had they known.
Greg
mattyb
Now we're talkin, I'm excited! Seriously.
MattyB.
GMM
I agree. I wouldn't buy a new pin out of the gate anymore. I would
wait to see if there is going to be a LE. Then make my decision on
which pin to buy.
Max Badazz
> you cut it. Almost a slap in the face to the loyal consumers who buy
> right out of the gate.
I am not upset. This new Avatar is $1000 more than what I paid.
While I love the game, my only complaints about it are some cosmetic
issues, which can easily now be added by buying the parts (figures, a
better looking transport, etc). I knew paying NIB price that I would
lose money if I ever sold and it's a loss I can accept for getting the
game the first week they made it. That extra 1000 bought me a Jackbot
a couple weeks ago, (it was 1250 to be exact, so 80% of it), so I am
still happy.
Chris (in NH)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/maxbadazz
BlueMalibu
put them on the street. Let the potential home buyers put quarters in
the location games. Then after a bit sell the SE to collectors and
the LE to non-collectors.
Today, when the home buyers get in right away it cuts into location
play.
Almost seems like a plan. scary.
Parker
Pinballed
This doesnt surprise me somehow, in fact, I see it clearly now. The
last two pins, BDK and IM came out 100% machine-wise and did what they
did. Now out comes the Costco versions of the two and we're less than
impressed but they're cheaper and not really all that far off the full
versions, if you ask me. This time Gary...you old sneak you, you just
reversed the releases. You put out the "Costco" type version first,
then you release the fuller version and instead of whining about the
dumbed down version of these pins, we're moderately impressed with the
original, and will be even more impressed with the upgraded version!
Well played Gary! And although that could be mistaken as a sorta
resentment, actually, its not. I dig the point of view. Even if it
wasnt as calculated as I make it out to be, I tend to appreciate new
pins, no matter what they are...(BBH aside, I'm not so much into
shooting game...you go out and kill a deer with your bare hands, or a
rock or something like nature meant the fight to be...by all means) I
like Avatar, not enough to buy it tho...but this LE version, THAT
sounds like fun!
Stan
Ken Boston
on, April 1st is 4 1/2 months away.
Lloyd Olson
"Ken Boston" <kdbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d82ee57f-56b0-4e42...@g2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Taylor-VA
Brian Shepherd
> > Just like car companies. New model, first year seems greta. Next year,
> > more bells & whistles are added. The Germans sprinkle in a few more
> > horsepower in each engine etc.
>
> Actually, there was a small class action lawsuit with Toyota over just
> this type of thing, which Toyota lost. It involved the Supra in
> 96-98. I have a friend who got cash back from Toyota over it.
Um, hate to break it to you, but this is standard MO for car companies
and other consumer goods. Whatever Toyota lawsuit you are referring
too most likely has nothing in common with this.
Example: For releases the 2010 Mustang with a restyled body. For 2011,
they release the same car, with many tweaks and some awesome new
engines. Now they are releasing the 302 which is even a better version
of the Mustang, including a special key, that when used, changes the
car into a more track-racing worthy car.
Nothing illegal with this *AT ALL*
> And even if you do sell your 2-3 month old Avatar to buy the new one,
> it's just going to cost you that much MORE now for the "real" Avatar
> pin. It's terrible for the people who bought the first Avatar any way
> you cut it. Almost a slap in the face to the loyal consumers who buy
> right out of the gate.
A regular Avatar is still an Avatar, just like a normal TZ and sample
TZ with home roms and third magnet are both TZs.
While Stern could be a little more upfront regarding this info and
allow the consumer to make a decision on what the want. My guess is
that Stern waited to see how Avatar was received in the market and
felt that a LE version would make sense. If sales ended up like 24/CSI/
NBA, they would have just skipped it and moved on.
-- Brian
Jason
You don't have to prove something is illegal in order to be entitled
to recompense, and Supra owners did get money back from Toyota in one
of those years, if they complained, I believe it was 96 or 97
owners.
Be that as it may, it's a terrible move by Stern which most likely
ensures a much smaller group of collectors buying their initial
releases from here on out.
Digger
buy a NIB Avatar, but I do buy NIB). As I think more about this, it
seems like they are really going to follow through with the initial
idea of doing the three levels that was talked about several months
ago. What I think could have been done better was to remind people
this was going to happen and go from there, not just roll in with a
truly upgraded version (not just cosmetic) unannounced. I know NOT
announcing it generated sales from collectors who wanted the game, but
I would imagine there may be some buyers remorse now from collectors
who bought it for home use and care more about features than price and
would have gone for the higher priced version. It will be interesting
to see the next pin and its sales from the gate, i am guessing people
will wait. I have fingers crossed the new pin is Tron (who knows) but
rather than jumping on this once it is announced (like I planned to,
money ready), the way Stern released this "Premium" addition without
any real warning will make me wait a while (god I will hate
that...argh). I hope in the future that Stern lets people know in
advance about the Premium addition, rather than later.
Just my two cents
Kerry
Daniel Tonks
- Dan
eagle68
I think it's a great sounding machine, although I agree the
communication needs to be better on which models they plan to produce
so an informed buyer can make an informed decision.
My concern is that if it is $4999 to distributors, they will resale
for approx. $5500-6k. I completely understand Stern wanting to protect
the Distributor base, but at these price points and only a limited
number of these made that are clearly targeted towards the
"collector", Stern should really consider selling the LE's/Premiums
directly to the Collector market. At $4999 (although it's a lot of
money, I personally would consider one, but at 6k, I am not
interested, which is sad, because I am their target market for this
machine, and I like the machine). Hope your reading this Stern.
To sum it up, if you are making a marketing effort to produce for the
higher end of the market, then why not sale directly to that segment.
Sure Distributors should be able to buy them if they want, but to
force your targeted segment to pay a middle man for no real "value
add" doesn't make sense to me.
Curious to hear others thoughts from a business perspective on this
issue.
Future post : WTB: HUO Avatar Premium/LE 4500-5k .......or a new one
direct from Stern today.
Bryan Kelly
this AFTER the initial sale of the standard ones. Was this done on
purpose or was it an after thought? I feel it was done on purpose.
How many collectors will now sell the standard ones and buy the LE
version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
That works well for Stern at the moment, but what happens to sales
with the next title? How many collectors will NOT buy intitailly,
waiting to see if an LE version is in the works? Could be they're
gauging interest in LE versions. Who knows.
It'd sure be nice if Stern announced before hand what versions will be
available for each title. It just seems like another stupid business
decision on Gary Stern's part.
Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
On Nov 13, 5:56 am, eagle68 <eagle6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think it's a great sounding machine, although I agree the
> communication needs to be better on which models they plan to produce
> so an informed buyer can make an informed decision.
>
> My concern is that if it is $4999 to distributors, they will resale
> for approx. $5500-6k. I completely understand Stern wanting to protect
> the Distributor base, but at these price points and only a limited
> number of these made that are clearly targeted towards the
> "collector", Stern should really consider selling the LE's/Premiums
> directly to the Collector market. At $4999 (although it's a lot of
> money, I personally would consider one, but at 6k, I am not
> interested, which is sad, because I am their target market for this
> machine, and I like the machine). Hope your reading this Stern.
>
> To sum it up, if you are making a marketing effort to produce for the
> higher end of the market, then why not sale directly to that segment.
> Sure Distributors should be able to buy them if they want, but to
> force your targeted segment to pay a middle man for no real "value
> add" doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Curious to hear others thoughts from a business perspective on this
> issue.
>
> Future post : WTB: HUO Avatar Premium/LE 4500-5k .......or a new one
> direct from Stern today.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
MrBally
> What bothers me most about this is the fact that Stern comes out with
> this AFTER the initial sale of the standard ones. Was this done on
> purpose or was it an after thought? I feel it was done on purpose.
> How many collectors will now sell the standard ones and buy the LE
> version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
>
> That works well for Stern at the moment, but what happens to sales
> with the next title? How many collectors will NOT buy intitailly,
> waiting to see if an LE version is in the works? Could be they're
> gauging interest in LE versions. Who knows.
>
> It'd sure be nice if Stern announced before hand what versions will be
> available for each title. It just seems like another stupid business
> decision on Gary Stern's part.
>
>
> On Nov 13, 5:56 am, eagle68 <eagle6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think it's a great sounding machine, although I agree the
> > communication needs to be better on which models they plan to produce
> > so an informed buyer can make an informed decision.
>
> > My concern is that if it is $4999 to distributors, they will resale
> > for approx. $5500-6k. I completely understand Stern wanting to protect
> > the Distributor base, but at these price points and only a limited
> > number of these made that are clearly targeted towards the
> > "collector", Stern should really consider selling the LE's/Premiums
> > directly to the Collector market. At $4999 (although it's a lot of
> > money, I personally would consider one, but at 6k, I am not
> > interested, which is sad, because I am their target market for this
> > machine, and I like the machine). Hope your reading this Stern.
>
> > To sum it up, if you are making a marketing effort to produce for the
> > higher end of the market, then why not sale directly to that segment.
> > Sure Distributors should be able to buy them if they want, but to
> > force your targeted segment to pay a middle man for no real "value
> > add" doesn't make sense to me.
>
> > Curious to hear others thoughts from a business perspective on this
> > issue.
>
> > Future post : WTB: HUO Avatar Premium/LE 4500-5k .......or a new one
> > direct from Stern today.- Hide quoted text -
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not many complained when this was done to Spiderman. When it was done
to LOTR, the time gap between the two versions made it a non-issue.
Jason
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOTR LE is a LOTR with an ugly as sin backglass and some gold trim and
MISSING the figurines.
S-M LE was chrome trim, shaker motor, couple other minor things?
This Avatar LE seems to be a whole different animal. It's a bad move
by Stern, in the long run.
Max Badazz
> version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
Not me. Antoher thread had it at $5400 (distributer markup) +
shipping. Thats going to make it $1600+ more than my original to my
door. While the extras are cool, I can't see myself paying that much
for it, and keep in mind I love the game. Yes, I would have liked the
choice between the two, but for me personally, I am happy I didn't
have to make that choice (it was hard enough to drop 4k on the game
sight unseen with little video to go by.) It is cool that they are
doing it.
I do want to get the Banshi that someone here on RGP installed (I need
the model # of that to get on ebay). I think I'll get the shaker
motor as well for a Xmas present to myself :-)
Max Badazz
>>Traditional lockdown mechanism and front molding
I HATE the new lockdown bar. HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MHS
> this AFTER the initial sale of the standard ones. Was this done on
> purpose or was it an after thought? I feel it was done on purpose.
> How many collectors will now sell the standard ones and buy the LE
> version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
>
> That works well for Stern at the moment, but what happens to sales
> with the next title? How many collectors will NOT buy intitailly,
> waiting to see if an LE version is in the works? Could be they're
> gauging interest in LE versions. Who knows.
>
> It'd sure be nice if Stern announced before hand what versions will be
> available for each title. It just seems like another stupid business
> decision on Gary Stern's part.
>
>
> On Nov 13, 5:56 am, eagle68 <eagle6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think it's a great sounding machine, although I agree the
> > communication needs to be better on which models they plan to produce
> > so an informed buyer can make an informed decision.
>
> > My concern is that if it is $4999 to distributors, they will resale
> > for approx. $5500-6k. I completely understand Stern wanting to protect
> > the Distributor base, but at these price points and only a limited
> > number of these made that are clearly targeted towards the
> > "collector", Stern should really consider selling the LE's/Premiums
> > directly to the Collector market. At $4999 (although it's a lot of
> > money, I personally would consider one, but at 6k, I am not
> > interested, which is sad, because I am their target market for this
> > machine, and I like the machine). Hope your reading this Stern.
>
> > To sum it up, if you are making a marketing effort to produce for the
> > higher end of the market, then why not sale directly to that segment.
> > Sure Distributors should be able to buy them if they want, but to
> > force your targeted segment to pay a middle man for no real "value
> > add" doesn't make sense to me.
>
> > Curious to hear others thoughts from a business perspective on this
> > issue.
>
> > Future post : WTB: HUO Avatar Premium/LE 4500-5k .......or a new one
> > direct from Stern today.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
i hear what you are saying, but how much clearer could Stern have
been? They put out a press release stating they would be doing this
exact thing.
In addition to cars, computer manufacturers do this every 8 months.
Rare Hero
> Not me. Antoher thread had it at $5400 (distributer markup) +
> shipping. Thats going to make it $1600+ more than my original to my
> door. While the extras are cool, I can't see myself paying that much
> for it, and keep in mind I love the game.
For a guy like me who didn't buy the regular Avatar, I'm thinking the
price isn't that bad, really. If you breakdown the extra stuff you're
getting and how much it would cost do pimp out a regular Avatar on my
own...Shaker (installed, which is nice), chrome kit, old school
lockdown & rails, metal apron (with this blue window thing whatever
that is), extra figures....that's like $700-ish right there. Plus
EXTRA stuff that there's probably no way to mod on your own!? Sounds
pretty rad to me!
It's not lost on me that I've been taken by the reverse psychology of
the whole situation. Yes, this SHOULD have been the "regular" version
in terms of features, metal hardware....I get it....but I'm getting
swept up in the whole thing anyway...hehe. :)
Greg
Ron Lyons
have been wanting, games with more stuff on them... here it is.
As for Stern not announcing they were going to do it, they're under no
obligation to do that. If Avatar wouldn't have sold, they probably
wouldn't have made one anyways, so how would they know in advance to
tell anybody in the first place?
They've basically got to the point where these LE releases are custom
built anyways, all the additions are obviously things that were
considered possible for the first release, but cut due to cost
constraints, now they're adding them back in if you want the suped up
version.
As for the original being stripped down, they'll strip it down further
when they release the Costco version... this will probably be the
first pin to get three models.
Finally, I'm happy to see Stern making some money, or at least enough
to churn out some extra machines. They honestly went above and beyond
what they HAD to do for a LE version, I applaud that they obviously
are trying to make a game that pleases the hardcore fans.
mr tobias
Totally agree. I feel quite sorry for any collectors who bought the
original Avatar. There's little doubt the lesson here is wait for the
dust to settle on future releases and don't preorder standard models.
It's not as though this is one year or even six months on from the
original release.
Lloyd Olson
"Daniel Tonks" <dtonks@sunstormADD-DOT-COM> wrote in message
news:4cde7bcc$0$77536$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
Ron - NYP
Ron
Pinball Flyer Database
www.nypinball.com/brochures.php
"Ron Lyons" <rly...@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:216f4586-e777-45f7...@j5g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
goatdan
> Almost seems like a plan. scary.
No way! Everyone on RGP knows and says that there is absolutely no
plan! Why would this suddenly be any different?
RGP knows way more about how to run a pinball company than Stern
Pinball does!
goatdan
> What bothers me most about this is the fact that Stern comes out with
> this AFTER the initial sale of the standard ones. Was this done on
> purpose or was it an after thought? I feel it was done on purpose.
> How many collectors will now sell the standard ones and buy the LE
> version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
>
> That works well for Stern at the moment, but what happens to sales
> with the next title? How many collectors will NOT buy intitailly,
> waiting to see if an LE version is in the works? Could be they're
> gauging interest in LE versions. Who knows.
>
> It'd sure be nice if Stern announced before hand what versions will be
> available for each title. It just seems like another stupid business
> decision on Gary Stern's part.
Although I can't exactly describe why I think this, I think that the
plan is that in the future, Stern will announce the LE and the
standard editions at the same time, and allow people to decide which
one they want. The "home" versions will still be announced at a much
later point, both to not hurt operators and also to ensure that the
theme has held up good enough to bother cost reducing them.
Just like those games, I'm certain that this is a big experiment to
see if collectors will support a significantly inflated price point
for a game that has a few things different than the regular version.
If it works, I'd expect to see these early on.
Finally, Black Spider-Man and LOTR LE both came out after their
initial runs, so I don't think this will necessarily hurt the market.
Those two games didn't really make people decide to stop buying new
Stern products.
wbradley
Finally a strategy to get the machine out on the street with the
operators at a reasonable price point AND satisfy the higher end
collector while showing what can be done for a bit more $.
Bravo!
The LE as described sounds like something I want!
Lloyd Olson
supposed to be out a couple months ahead of the regular so I ordered the
gold. Unfortunately they both landed about the same time.
So no way of knowing if they do announce something, if they'll stick to it.
Or how it will effect their sales. LTG :)
"goatdan" <loo...@goatstore.com> wrote in message
news:9fe4290a-d282-411d...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
Rare Hero
> Finally, Black Spider-Man and LOTR LE both came out after their
> initial runs,
Actually BSM was announced pretty shortly after the regular one was
released. I bought my Red SM Nov.'07 because the original owner heard
about the Black one and wanted it instead.
Greg
Pinball Life
>
> Actually BSM was announced pretty shortly after the regular one was
> released. I bought my Red SM Nov.'07 because the original owner heard
> about the Black one and wanted it instead.
>
> Greg
Correct. The BSM came out about 2-3 months after the end of the first
run of SM, so the Avatar LE is following that plan pretty closely.
IIRC, SM was released in the sumer of 2007 and BSM was the Christmas
premium model. This is not that different from what is happening with
Avatar and Avatar LE.
There was some grumbling about the BSM release from the SM owners and
SM machines took a temporary hit pricewise for a few months.
Terry.
Rare Hero
<pinballlifeworldheadquart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There was some grumbling about the BSM release from the SM owners and
> SM machines took a temporary hit pricewise for a few months.
Thing is - SM and BSM are the same game...just different art. This is
the first time the LE has had a variety of new gameplay features and
mechanical enhancements. Anyone who just bought Avatar has a right to
be pissed.
Greg
Ron Lyons
A pinhead complaining about something? In other news, the Sky is blue
today.
Ron
Lloyd Olson
wish. LTG :)
"Rare Hero" <rareh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e03c8498-5773-4360...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
Rare Hero
> No they don't. They own a great pin, can easily sell it and upgrade if they
> wish. LTG :)
I mean, obviously we haven't seen the new Pimpatar yet - but it seems
like it might be super hard to upgrade it to the new motor/coils/
powerball/sensor/lights/metal arch w/ blue window thingie ....and for
all we know, there could be some kind of code lockout - like how
Standard LOTR can't use a shaker w/ the LE code.
Greg
MHS
Do the regular avatars stop working now that the le has been
released?
There will always be something newer, bigger, better, faster...
Lloyd Olson
money. And then buy the new and improved Avatar.
Sorry, by upgrade I meant to get the improved model and upgrade their
collection. LTG :)
"Rare Hero" <rareh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7fc0e8f2-f6c4-4ca2...@g4g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
Jason
> No they don't. They own a great pin, can easily sell it and upgrade if they
> wish. LTG :)
>
>
> news:e03c8498-5773-4360...@f16g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Anyone who just bought Avatar has a right to be pissed.
>
> Greg
Actually, YES they do. They own a second rate version of the game,
now. And yes, they can sell it, take the $800 hit on it (maybe more,
now), and then pay $1000 more for the new one, so $1800 more for the
new Avatar LE, versus $1000 more if they hadn't bought the first
version. So they LOSE money. How can anyone say that someone
else does not have the right to be pissed for losing money? LOL
Cmon.... put yourself in someone's shoes who just paid $4400 for a new
Avatar-Lite a month ago...
cody chunn
available? It seems to me collectors are gonna be stuck having to take a big
loss to move the dummed-down version to upgrade.
I wouldn't buy NIB anymore (not that I can currently) if I wasn't sure about
a better version on the horizon, and I certainly wouldn't buy the
dummed-down version when the "real" version was on the market.
It looks like patience is the operative word when looking at new Sterns from
now on...unless you dig taking a bath on your purchases.
--
-cody
--
"Bryan Kelly" <bske...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:be51f4f8-3fcc-4d79...@u8g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Olson
No stern bashing, or you will be shunned. LTG :)
"Jason" <react...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e07a7a54-870a-4b6a...@f16g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Olson
If they do the dummed down version first. And now everyone waits so sales
tank. Maybe then they won't do the super duper LE edition because of lack of
interest ? LTG :)
"cody chunn" <cch...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ibmren$e1v$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
MHS
No, you own the exact same game you were satisfied with yesterday.
It's not second rate, it is the exactly what you wanted at the time of
purchase. You had a need and stern satisfied it. The problem is you
now have a new need.
You have a great game. Play it and be happy. If there is another
game you want more, sell it and buy the new one. It's not a confusing
issue. And it isn't stern's fault for doing exactly what they claimed
they would do in a press release.
No one stole your money. Your game still turns on and is awesome,
exactly like when you were smiling and unboxing it.
Max Badazz
It's greater than 1000 more. Try 1600 more, plus the hit on selling
the original. Would cost me an extra $2400 after the hit. I plan on
getting the Banshi which someone has done already here (I just need to
find the model #). I am probably treating myself to the shaker motor
for Xmas. I can pick up the extra figures that they add on epay. The
metal apron with lights can be bought and installed easy enough. I
don't care about the under rails, the chrome, and can deal with the
crappy new lockdown bar (which shouldn't be used often since I am
putting LED bulbs under the hood and won't need to go under there).
So I lose out on dancing AMP suit legs, a door opening coffin, and a
power ball with extra scoring. If Stern wants to release this stuff
without letting us know at first, that is fine with me. They need to
make money and I think Avatar is an awesome game, so let them make a
few extra bucks on LE versions. Now had this LE version been the same
price, that would make me angry :-)
Also I have to say John and Pat have been a big help with fixing a few
"issues" with my game. Stern does have top notch support from their
techs and developers.
Jason
>
> - Show quoted text -
I love how everyone on here is so free to tell other people how they
should feel and how they should not feel.
Guess what? Someone who just paid $4400 for an Avatar-lite feels
buyer's remorse right about now, and nothing YOU say, or anyone else
says about how they SHOULD feel, is going to change that. If you are
a company and your buyers feel that way, then you have erred...
doesn't matter if completely uninterested parties don't see why you
feel that way, totally irrelevant. The end.
Hugh
They didn't say they would be adding features. All previous LE
versions were upgraded in the art dept only. The more I think about
this I too wouldn't buy a NIB Stern until I knew for sure what the LE
had in store. If I bought an Avatar NIB I'd be unhappy right now.
This is going to hurt sales not help them IMHO.
Hugh
Ron Lyons
Stern is even planning on RELEASING A NEW GAME next year! WTF????
Avatar isn't going to be worth a damn then, I think we should all
revolt. Also, the legs on the machine?
YOU CAN BUY THOSE WITHOUT BUYING THE PINBALL MACHINE. So now we're
going to have people building their own, FURTHER degrading the cost of
these.
I also heard Gary doesn't even build the machines. He hires mexicans
to do it. Some of them are even Women.
Jason
>
> - Show quoted text -
ex-m'fn-actly
Rare Hero
> This is going to hurt sales not help them IMHO.
Well, in one way it's helping sales....I'm now buying an Avatar when I
otherwise wasn't going to...lol....but yeah, I would NEVER buy a "Pro"
model at this point until I saw what the "Premium" version was going
to be.....and Lloyd's right - that skeptical waiting might kill sales
which could lead to the Premium version being scrapped due to "lack of
interest"
I think the timing of this is kind of a shame....people have been
screaming TRON TRON TRON TRON TRON! ...and now they're gonna get
Tron....but after this Avatar LE announcement, how many people who
were ready to plunk down the cash for Tron are going to hold off?
Greg
Lloyd Olson
>
> I love how everyone on here is so free to tell other people how they
> should feel and how they should not feel.
Jason, you feel great, with a touch of giddyness.
>
> Guess what? Someone who just paid $4400 for an Avatar-lite feels
> buyer's remorse right about now, and nothing YOU say, or anyone else
> says about how they SHOULD feel, is going to change that. If you are
> a company and your buyers feel that way, then you have erred...
> doesn't matter if completely uninterested parties don't see why you
> feel that way, totally irrelevant. The end.
If I was a marketing department, I seriously be concerned about how my
customers felt. With today's means of communication, piss one off, and no
telling how many more you lose. LTG :)
Lloyd Olson
If it has normal lockdown bar, rails to slide the playfield out, two shaker
motors, balls that look like light cycles and glow in the dark, glow in the
dark frisbees that fling across the playfield, tiered playfield, LCD HD 4D
backglass instead of translite, blower motor to hold game off the ground so
you don't need legs, solar powered. And other things I'm sworn to secrecy
about.
Then yes, I believe Tron fans may hold off. LTG :)
"Rare Hero" <rareh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c31049d-5523-44bc...@o15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Jason
> "Jason" <reactor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
LOL While I don't feel giddy, that did make me laugh.
I think there has to be a better way for Stern to move machines and
offer enhanced versions that will not piss off loyal customers who buy
the machines right out of the gate. I'm a huge Stern fan, and would
love for them to triple in size, number of machines released, just
excel in every category. Releasing LE edition is nothing new for
them, and in this case I don't think this was quite the right way to
do it and gave several reasons why I feel that way. Done with this
thread. I understand everyone's views who feel the collectors who
paid $4400 for an Avatar a month ago should be excited and thrilled
about this LE announcement, wearing smiles on their faces a mile
wide. The smiles aren't there, like it or not. Saying anything
else is beating a dead horse.
Lloyd Olson
possible results.
There once was a company, making pinball machines. Williams I believe they
were called.
They got into a pattern of closing out pins. Ops figured GREAT, wait a month
or two and save half the cost of a new pin - great for the op because no pin
is going to take in approximately $1800 their cut in two months.
So then Williams figured out to wean the ops out of this habit, to build
Medieval Madness pins, under build them, to TEACH those ops to buy when it
comes out or miss out.
That worked out really great - pissed off the ops and they quit buying
altogether.
One bad decision after another and once it snow balled and started rolling
down hill, there was no stopping it.
You get in the pattern of doing something, and then try and make corrections
later, well that doesn't always have a happy ending.
Some days you really need to stop and decide if you are improving your goals
or not. And with the state of the industry and economy, there isn't a lot of
room for errors. LTG :)
"Jason" <react...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:01bf09b0-f76a-4bc7...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
phishrace
> What ever way, I would really think through what is going on, plans, and
> possible results.
>
> There once was a company, making pinball machines. Williams I believe they
> were called.
>
> They got into a pattern of closing out pins. Ops figured GREAT, wait a month
> or two and save half the cost of a new pin - great for the op because no pin
> is going to take in approximately $1800 their cut in two months.
>
> So then Williams figured out to wean the ops out of this habit, to build
> Medieval Madness pins, under build them, to TEACH those ops to buy when it
> comes out or miss out.
>
> That worked out really great - pissed off the ops and they quit buying
> altogether.
>
> One bad decision after another and once it snow balled and started rolling
> down hill, there was no stopping it.
>
> You get in the pattern of doing something, and then try and make corrections
> later, well that doesn't always have a happy ending.
>
> Some days you really need to stop and decide if you are improving your goals
> or not. And with the state of the industry and economy, there isn't a lot of
> room for errors. LTG :)
Gary has admitted that they're throwing shit against the wall to see
what sticks. His body language and tone in the recent parking lot talk
suggested that some of the things they're trying seemed stupid to him.
But because of the new investors and declining sales, he's giving them
a chance. The shorter ball times, for one, seems to be a success so
far. Not singlehandedly bringing the hobby back mind you, but a
measured success.
Everyone bitched when they were stagnant. Now everyone is bitching
because of all the changes. No pleasing some folks. Think I'll go play
the old and busted IM down the street now.
-phish
MrBally
> Depends on how many improvements the Tron LE has over the regular Tron.
>
> If it has normal lockdown bar, rails to slide the playfield out, two shaker
> motors, balls that look like light cycles and glow in the dark, glow in the
> dark frisbees that fling across the playfield, tiered playfield, LCD HD 4D
> backglass instead of translite, blower motor to hold game off the ground so
> you don't need legs, solar powered. And other things I'm sworn to secrecy
> about.
>
> Then yes, I believe Tron fans may hold off. LTG :)
>
>
> news:3c31049d-5523-44bc...@o15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> I think the timing of this is kind of a shame....people have been
> screaming TRON TRON TRON TRON TRON! ...and now they're gonna get
> Tron....but after this Avatar LE announcement, how many people who
> were ready to plunk down the cash for Tron are going to hold off?
>
> Greg
Tron LE will be named Disc of Tron.
Steve
> On Nov 12, 8:15 pm, BlueMalibu <mich...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Almost seems like a plan. scary.
>
> No way! Everyone on RGP knows and says that there is absolutely no
> plan! Why would this suddenly be any different?
>
> RGP knows way more about how to run a pinball company than Stern
> Pinball does!
Dan For The Defense.
Steve
> On Nov 13, 7:26 am, Bryan Kelly <bskel...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > What bothers me most about this is the fact that Stern comes out with
> > this AFTER the initial sale of the standard ones. Was this done on
> > purpose or was it an after thought? I feel it was done on purpose.
> > How many collectors will now sell the standard ones and buy theLE
> > version. Quite a few, I would think, resulting in more sales.
>
> > That works well for Stern at the moment, but what happens to sales
> > with the next title? How many collectors will NOT buy intitailly,
> > gauging interest inLEversions. Who knows.
>
> > It'd sure be nice if Stern announced before hand what versions will be
> > available for each title. It just seems like another stupid business
> > decision on Gary Stern's part.
>
> plan is that in the future, Stern will announce theLEand the
> standard editions at the same time, and allow people to decide which
> one they want. The "home" versions will still be announced at a much
> later point, both to not hurt operators and also to ensure that the
> theme has held up good enough to bother cost reducing them.
>
> Just like those games, I'm certain that this is a big experiment to
> see if collectors will support a significantly inflated price point
> for a game that has a few things different than the regular version.
> If it works, I'd expect to see these early on.
>
> Finally, Black Spider-Man and LOTRLEboth came out after their
> initial runs, so I don't think this will necessarily hurt the market.
> Those two games didn't really make people decide to stop buying new
> Stern products.
Gary never knows in advance what games are going to be popular. He
has guessed
a few times with SM, Elvis, LOTR, (and it wasn't too hard to guess
with those titles) but even with a very popular game, the LE's tended
to follow
the regular games. Do you think he will order special parts for a
game without knowing
the popularity in advance? No way!
It will be interesting to see what the fallout of Gary's plan will
be. There are angry
buyers of the stripped down version, no doubt. I think the plan may
really backfire when buyers wait longer
to buy any version until they see what model/levels of quality are
disclosed by Stern.
That is what I would do if I were looking to buy an NIB game in this
era.
Steve
The Hammer
just, gosh, have to have the upgrade or your whole life is ruined, then sell
what you have and purchase this one.
I think it will increase demand, sell more games and, hopefully, make Stern
a bundle of money and keep the company healthy so we have a supply of new
pins.
If this really drives you nuts, because now your treasured NIB Avatar pin is
no longer the best there is, and now, someone, someplace, will have one
better than you - well
Get A Life!
;-(
:
:
Sheesh.
in article
2b1d444a-c4e4-46d9...@v20g2000prl.googlegroups.com, World of
Pinball at worldof...@aol.com wrote on 11/12/10 2:12 PM:
> Dear Ladies and Gentlemen
>
> We are going to make a Premium Limited Edition version of our Avatar
> pinball, and this Limited Edition will be unlike any we have done
> before.
>
> We are not just decorating the normal Pro version of this game. The
> Avatar Limited Edition will have added game play and mechanical
> features.
>
> Like all fine art and collectibles, each game will be numbered, with
> it's plaque and its authenticity certificate marked from number 1 of
> 250
> to number 250 of 250.
>
> Additions to Avatar contained in the Avatar Limited Edition will
> include:
> --Amp Suit with legs that march up and down, activated by solenoids
> --Transporter cover that opens and closes, operated by an added motor
> --A white pinball mixed among the silver balls and a sensor so that
> the
> game will increase scoring when the white ball is in play
> --Shaker motor assembly
> --Added game rules and computer code to operate these added devices
> --More figurines decorating the game, including
> --Banshee figure hovering over the plastic ramp
> --Colonel Quaritch inside the Amp suit
> --Navi's mounted at the Navi target bank
> --Increased number of control lamps and general illumination lamps
> --Metal lower arch, enhanced with light up blue translucent windows
> --Playfield support slides
> --Traditional lockdown mechanism and front molding
> --Playfields 1 to 25 will be signed
> --Added playfield hard coat
> --And of course full chrome package - side armor, lock bar, hinges,
> legs
>
> The distributor price for Avatar Limited Edition with this really
> exciting added package is $4,899. Games number 1 and 2 are already
> committed to James Cameron and John Landau, the director and producer
> of
> the Avatar movie. As is the case with numbered art and numbered
> remakes
> of pinball machines, the very low numbered art and games warrant a
> higher price when sold by you. The price from us for numbers 3 to 9
> will be $5,299 and for 10 through 25 will be $4,999.
>
> Production will be late this month. We will not require deposits as
> we
> have with some earlier Premium Limited Edition games and as has been
> required for numbered remakes of pinball machines. As with our other
> Premium models, there are no cash discounts or warranty allowances.
> We
> will require payment before delivery of these unique, numbered Avatar
> Limited Edition pinball machines.
>
> Best regards
>
> Gary
>
> --
> Gary Stern
> President
> Stern Pinball, Inc.
> 2020 Janice Avenue
> Melrose Park, IL 60160-1011. USA
> Tel: +1-708-786-7036. Fax: +1-708-345-7813
> Mobile: +1-847-278-1398
> email: gary....@sternpinball.com
> www.sternpinball.com
Find out about the beautiful Oregon South Coast at
VisitOregonSouthCoast.com
http://www.visitoregonsouthcoast.com/
Daniel Tonks
I wonder which one I should sell.
TSPP
BSM
BDK
- Dan
cody chunn
off NIB with no fear of getting ripped on a dummed-down version.
win-win.
--
-cody
--
"Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote in message
news:E8ydndzsv6lCb0PR...@skypoint.com...
mnpinball
Avatar is a good game but not better than those three.
Rare Hero
Bye bye BDK!!! :)
Greg
vidgameseller
have many names on your signature, then i would think that this hobby
is a bunch of menstrating women. Gary does things one way, you bitch,
he changes it up, you bitch. If you dont like it, just dont buy the
games. Then you will have a right to bitch when there is no one
making them
Now as to the Avatar LE. I think that only those that have actually
plopped down the $ and bought one can really say how they feel. I did
get one, and im still very happy with it. I can add all the items
except the plaque from the way it sounds. But i doubt that i do, i
have only seen two mods that i like so far, the banshee and col miles
in the amp suit. the toppers that some have shown pics of just look
stupid to me, but thats why its not on my machine, we all like
differnt things. I think that it is cool that Stern is coming out
with the new version. Do i wish i would have known when i bought the
game, sure, it would have been nice,. Would i have bought the one i
do or waited for the LE, NO, I am quite happy with what i did get,
and for the price i got it for. I just dont see the extra value so
far in the LE, but that may change when i see it. I do hope if this
"special ball" part is true, then i hope that it is something that can
be added to the original version. Hopefully, some of the upgrades are
available for the original version, i might buy a few of them
troy
Lloyd Olson
other software updates for that particular model.
"vidgameseller" <vidgam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f991a463-dc94-4976...@b25g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
>
> I can add all the items except the plaque from the way it sounds. >
> troy
pinhead72
LOVE this game and to have an upgraded (severely) version of it is a
must, am I bitter no, I just can't live my life like that, I'm just
glad they're pumping out games, and pretty good ones too.
Can't wait to see it, and meanwhile enjoying the hell out of the one I
have.....
Jesse
Daniel Tonks
Mmm, maybe. I actually quite like it (as it complements the gameplay on my
other two). Only other candidate is TSPP, and merely because I've had it the
longest, since 2003. However I also have the most invested in it (spare
playfields, and double spare plastics, ramps, decals, basically anything
that could break.)
- Dan
Daniel Tonks
>
> Not many complained when this was done to Spiderman. When it was done
> to LOTR, the time gap between the two versions made it a non-issue.
Not many complained on Spiderman? I think you are mis-remembering what
actually occurred when BSM was announced. There was a huge amount of
controversy from those who had already bought SM NIB, and there were
probably a lot more SM owners here then than there are Avatar owners here
now.
- Dan
goatdan
> Gary never knows in advance what games are going to be popular. He
> has guessed
> a few times with SM, Elvis, LOTR, (and it wasn't too hard to guess
> with those titles) but even with a very popular game, the LE's tended
> to follow
> the regular games. Do you think he will order special parts for a
> game without knowing
> the popularity in advance? No way!
I agree... BUT and this is a big but, there is one big difference
here between those other games and this one -- they are limiting this
to 250 machines.
I'm actually really surprised that they aren't charging a LOT more for
this one. By limiting the sales to only 250, why not move the price
point up to $6000?
Do I think that Stern would buy a ton of parts to make a special
edition version of a game that they don't know if it will be popular
or not? I do -- IF they limit it to a tiny run like this. And, in
that case, it also wouldn't hurt to announce them right away with the
real game, as 250 machines I can guarantee will sell out fast and the
price for one of those machines will only increase in time, and
quickly I would guess. BSMs are significantly more than standard SMs,
and other than the artwork there was nothing done differently to those
machines.
Having said that, I think with the power ball in it the difference
between the two of them is going to be interesting to see what people
think. Personally, if I ended up with an Avatar LE, I'd immediately
replace the power ball with a steel one as I don't like the
randomizing feature that the power ball can add to a game. Based on
that, although I'd like to see one in action, I'd still personally
pick the regular one over the LE if I was in the market.
I do understand why this might drive some people to wait in the future
for their next NIB game if the LEs are continually announced after the
standard release, but until it becomes a regular occurrence, I
wouldn't overly worry about it.
ImpalaGuy
pro model right now (assuming they now want an LE), but preventing
this from happening in the future isn't difficult. They'll just
announce all three versions at the same time. Costco gets the cheap
one, ops buy the bang-for-the-buck pro, and us collectors pick the top-
o-the-line LE.
I suspect that's exactly what they'll do, as it's pretty much what
Gary stated when he announced the three-model approach. Now the LE
may not be available right away since it takes more programming, but
announcing it will be available would be sufficient.
Ron
On Nov 13, 3:48 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
> "Jason" <reactor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
cody chunn
everything to make it nice.
--
-cody
--
"Daniel Tonks" <dtonks@sunstormADD-DOT-COM> wrote in message
news:4cdf62bb$0$65861$892e...@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
David Marston
ImpalaGuy <ronse...@mcreccwb.com> wrote:
>It's possible Stern may have ticked off *collectors* who bought the
>pro model right now (assuming they now want an LE), but preventing
>this from happening in the future isn't difficult. They'll just
>announce all three versions at the same time. Costco gets the cheap
>one, ops buy the bang-for-the-buck pro, and us collectors pick the top-
>o-the-line LE.
>
>I suspect that's exactly what they'll do, as it's pretty much what
But Gary clarified a few days after that no game will get all three
tiers. It will be the Pro model and possibly one other for each
title.
--
................David Marston at MV
David Marston
Ron Lyons <rly...@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>...
>As for the original being stripped down, they'll strip it down further
>when they release the Costco version... this will probably be the
>first pin to get three models.
Nope. Their announced plan is to do no more than two tiers on any given
title, and the Pro model for the operators will always be one of the
tiers. Sometimes, it may be the only tier.
ImpalaGuy
> In article <0c74b515-d808-42b3-946d-9fa871eb9...@r21g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
> ImpalaGuy <ronsell...@mcreccwb.com> wrote:
> >It's possible Stern may have ticked off *collectors* who bought the
> >pro model right now (assuming they now want an LE), but preventing
> >this from happening in the future isn't difficult. They'll just
> >announce all three versions at the same time. Costco gets the cheap
> >one, ops buy the bang-for-the-buck pro, and us collectors pick the top-
> >o-the-line LE.
>
> >I suspect that's exactly what they'll do, as it's pretty much what
> >Gary stated when he announced the three-model approach....
>
> But Gary clarified a few days after that no game will get all three
> tiers. It will be the Pro model and possibly one other for each
> title.
> --
> ................David Marston at MV
Ah, I didn't realize he announced there would only be two. The
solution is the same, though. Announce both at the same time so
people know what models will be built and can choose. Where he'll get
into trouble is if he continues to announce a LE model afterwards,
upsetting those who thought the pro model was going to be the best. I
hope he understands this, as the home collector is an ever increasing
share of the market as the ops purchases are decreasing.
David Marston
ImpalaGuy <ronse...@mcreccwb.com> wrote:
>On Nov 16, 7:53=A0am, mars...@osmium.mv.net (David Marston) wrote:
>> But Gary clarified a few days after that no game will get all three
>> tiers. It will be the Pro model and possibly one other for each
>> title.
>
>solution is the same, though. Announce both at the same time so
>people know what models will be built and can choose.
Or at least, don't announce the higher-priced model later. We should
have a separate analysis of announcing the lower-priced model later.
Just announcing that multiple tiers are part of the strategy helps
a lot. I operated in the last decade of the electromechanical era,
when there were parallel 2- and 4-player models. Each manufacturer
(Gottlieb, Bally, Williams, Chicago Coin, in roughly that order)
got an initial indulgence for the first parallel model or two, but
then had to settle in to the pattern of making the pricier 4-player
model first. If the buyer wants to be first to have the game, they
have to pay more, and presumably they earned more on location.
>Where he'll get
>into trouble is if he continues to announce a LE model afterwards,
>upsetting those who thought the pro model was going to be the best. I
>hope he understands this, as the home collector is an ever increasing
>share of the market as the ops purchases are decreasing.
I'm positive that he understands the phenomenon of the buyer who
waits to see what's next. It's one of the oldest issues that a
manufacturer in coin-op has to face. Among other things, it
explains why he is not revealing the title of the next game or two.
JeffS
This has got to be one of the funniest threads in recent memory. There
is pandmonium in pinball land. What is striking is that not long ago
everybody bashed Stern for selling pins with incomplete software. That
topic hasn't come up yet in this discussion. That leads me to believe
the issue is being successfully addressed. Maybe we could reflect on
that fact for awhile and be thankful that Stern is trying new
approaches.
If Stern feels it is in their best interest to mention model levels at
the same time a title is annnounced, they will. Otherwise, they will
remain tight lipped, just as they usually do regarding what upcoming
titles will be. Agree that they haven't had to regularly consider what
to introduce in each level of machine. By fleshing this out during the
pinball development process they should know what might be included in
the professional level and hence be able to make that announcement at
the time of release.
My preference is for them to communicate their intentions ahead of time
and maybe they have gotten some valuable feedback from this cycle.
JeffS
ATL
--
JeffS
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
Max Pinball
get a beta v2. the factory upgrades parts after the machines are out
and after they get complaints from ops, they re-engineer certain parts
and change production. despite buying over 20 NIB machines right away
I now realize how dumb this is. best to wait about 1 year before
buying a machine for the kinks to work out. at that point the games
will definitely still be available NIB and you will no be left with
the inferior build. its not like upgrading software after a bug is
found on a vid. Stern literally refused to send me an upgraded bracket
for my Iron Monger and lied to me about other issues and available
parts.
Hugh
Great post Jeff, I agree with you 100%. Stern should be able to do
what they want ultimately but in the end it will affect how some of us
buy their games. For me I will take the wait and see approach.
Previously it was just because of code updates but it seems that it is
not an issue anymore as long as you don't mind waiting a few years.
Hugh