Mylar/Varathane Disaster Recovery Advice?

[Shredso]

I sold a decent System 11 to a buddy. I did a mini shop on it, played
great, looked ok. Had some bubbles in the mylar but I decided it was
too risky. He decided to try a full teardown. He got about 2/3 of the
way thought both and quit. I bought the machine back with much of the
top playfield and mylar removed. Not all the glue.

I started to lose some paint, ok a lot of paint when removing the glue.
I have no idea what he used previously on the playfield. It was a risky
undertaking and I guess it didn't pay off. I had all the glue off but
every rub with a rag pulled off more paint. I panicked and decided to
clear it as is to save the paint that was on there even though i didn't
sand out ball tracks, magic eraser, aptha, etc. I put on a couple coats
of Varathane and despite the playfield wear and spots of paint gone it
was looking great. I've had very good luck with Varathane in the past.


Last night I put on another heavy coat. I went a little too heavy in a
couple spots. I tried sanding it down a little today before the next
coat and I started to get peel. The peel wouldn't stop. I probably
have close to half the clear peeled off now. I'm hoping to take some
lessons from this total disaster so my first question is: did the clear
peel because it wasn't cured enough, or because it wasn't properly
prepared? I typically sand and Naptha the playfield before clear, but I
was horrified to think what Naptha would do to the already fragile
paint.

If I can sand the edges of the peel will a new coat marry to the old?
I'm worried if it starts to wear anywhere it will peel down the road.
The amount of touchup for me to do is unrealistic , and the title is not
desirable enough to warrant bringing it to a pro. If the rest of the
clear peels right up I may just throw a few coats of wax on and call it
a day.


--
Shredso
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[great_pinball_limited]

I only do 1 coat of Varethane a day. I never sand between coats, & it adheres well (1 day to weeks). I send it out for sanding & finish clear coats. I would think you needed it to dry more or just apply a coat a day.

[jta...@aol.com]

On Sep 6, 6:46 pm, Shredso <shre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I sold a decent System 11 to a buddy.  I did a mini shop on it, played
> great, looked ok.  Had some bubbles in the mylar but I decided it was
> too risky.  He decided to try a full teardown.  He got about 2/3 of the
> way thought both and quit.  I bought the machine back with much of the
> top playfield and mylar removed.  Not all the glue.
>
> I started to lose some paint, ok a lot of paint when removing the glue.

That happened to me on a High Speed. What was the game you were
working on?

Jerry

[Brad]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I used Varathane on Jumping
Jack and it somehow messed up the pink pain..much worse than the on
Cliffy's passion for pinball web site. I decided I could not match his
fix..finished with a few more coats of Varathane. I figured..even if
it can't look good, it can at least play well..and it does. It has seen
MANY games and it is fun. I'd wait a few days for the Varathane to dry
out before you do anything else.


--
Brad

[seymour.shabow]

Shredso wrote:
> I sold a decent System 11 to a buddy. I did a mini shop on it, played
> great, looked ok. Had some bubbles in the mylar but I decided it was
> too risky. He decided to try a full teardown. He got about 2/3 of the
> way thought both and quit. I bought the machine back with much of the
> top playfield and mylar removed. Not all the glue.
>
> I started to lose some paint, ok a lot of paint when removing the glue.
> I have no idea what he used previously on the playfield. It was a risky
> undertaking and I guess it didn't pay off. I had all the glue off but
> every rub with a rag pulled off more paint. I panicked and decided to
> clear it as is to save the paint that was on there even though i didn't

> sand out ball tracks, magic eraser, naptha, etc. I put on a couple coats

> of Varathane and despite the playfield wear and spots of paint gone it
> was looking great. I've had very good luck with Varathane in the past.
>
>
> Last night I put on another heavy coat. I went a little too heavy in a
> couple spots. I tried sanding it down a little today before the next
> coat and I started to get peel. The peel wouldn't stop. I probably
> have close to half the clear peeled off now. I'm hoping to take some
> lessons from this total disaster so my first question is: did the clear
> peel because it wasn't cured enough, or because it wasn't properly
> prepared? I typically sand and Naptha the playfield before clear, but I
> was horrified to think what Naptha would do to the already fragile
> paint.
>
> If I can sand the edges of the peel will a new coat marry to the old?
> I'm worried if it starts to wear anywhere it will peel down the road.
> The amount of touchup for me to do is unrealistic , and the title is not
> desirable enough to warrant bringing it to a pro. If the rest of the
> clear peels right up I may just throw a few coats of wax on and call it
> a day.
>
>

When it peeled was it peeling all the way down to the original coat on
the playfield or one of the upper coats? If you still had some clear
you laid down on the original field you probably just didn't sand it
enough to lock the next coat in.

If it's the original field you've got wax or some other petroleum based
stuff on it that the clear just isn't going to stick to.

Personally when I use varathane I follow Cliffy's method, no 24 hours
between coats. Follow the directions on the can and do it within 30-60
minutes.

[Frank Furhter]

Don't ever use varathane again. Use ISO or some of the new water based
fast flashing/window car stuff (the new stuff is rather new, so new in
fact it really hasn't been used by many here if any at all, most are on
2K iso still.)

[Shredso]

I did wait a day before sanding. I typically don't sand anyway, but
there were a few high spots. I'm sure it was because it wasn't properly
prepped. Hopefully I don't take up any paint with the clear. I'm
pretty sure it's the whole clear coming up, not just the last coat. I
don't think my problem here has anything to do with the product I used,
I'm betting without proper preparation I would have gotten bad results
with any clear. Live and learn I guess.

[kenny_ii]

Shredso;1993221 Wrote:
> I did wait a day before sanding. I typically don't sand anyway, but
> there were a few high spots. I'm sure it was because it wasn't properly
> prepped. Hopefully I don't take up any paint with the clear. I'm
> pretty sure it's the whole clear coming up, not just the last coat. I
> don't think my problem here has anything to do with the product I used,
> I'm betting without proper preparation I would have gotten bad results
> with any clear. Live and learn I guess.

From your long description in the original post, it sounds like your
surface prep is suspect. I would almost say the playfield is a lost
cause. You have to get all the old glue, any wax or other impurities
off before any top coating material will hold. If you are loosing
artwork, the original laquer is gone, nothing you can do about it now.
Get the playfield clean (I use naptha) and restore the artwork as best
you can. Then sand, clean and clear.

K2


--
kenny_ii

[Beaver]

I have done several Varathane restores, and all went fine. I agree with K2. Surface prep is the key. Just because you put a layer of clear onto a surface, it does not mean it will remain. If one of the lower layers is flaking, it is not adhering well, and the higher layers will come off.

Edward_Cheung CARGPB26

[Frank Furhter]

Just don't waste time with Varathane, use ISO outdoors or indoors in an
open garage doorway with bunny suit and activated carbon respirator.
The results with 'proper' prep, meaning a good wipe down with surface
cleaner and dust free cloth will do the trick 99.99% of the time. The
issue is do you have oils or incompatibility with touchup work/materials
and you may often using Varathane.