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Gottlieb AAB question for the old timers
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ldnayman
Nov 11, 2012, 5:11:13 PM11/11/12
to
Anybody have any idea why Gottlieb went from the regular 10 position
stepper unit on AAB games (as seen on stuff like Pop A Card or Pinup)
and decided they'd be better off adding another stepper unit on later
games like Ship Ahoy or Team One?
Don't understand the reasoning there. From a cost and maintenance
standpoint, seems like one stepper unit is better than two.
Just spend a couple days getting two of the latter day AAB games
working correctly, in both games the additional stepper needed a lot
of attention.
stepper unit on AAB games (as seen on stuff like Pop A Card or Pinup)
and decided they'd be better off adding another stepper unit on later
games like Ship Ahoy or Team One?
Don't understand the reasoning there. From a cost and maintenance
standpoint, seems like one stepper unit is better than two.
Just spend a couple days getting two of the latter day AAB games
working correctly, in both games the additional stepper needed a lot
of attention.
timne...@gmail.com
Nov 11, 2012, 7:41:33 PM11/11/12
to
Didn't really think about that before, but maybe they were trying to put
a bit more excitement in their machines to try and keep up with these solid
state machines that were coming out. With all their success that they had
for better than 3 decades, it seems they weren't in no rush to make
the change. (Neptune's score reels) (T)
Todd Newman
Nov 11, 2012, 8:33:24 PM11/11/12
to
theory go from 1 ball left to 10 balls. On the WOW games you could at
best go from 1 ball left to 6 (1 plus five WOWs).
Todd Newman
Nov 11, 2012, 8:33:53 PM11/11/12
to
Frank R.
Nov 13, 2012, 11:16:10 PM11/13/12
to
Adding the second ball count unit made the games convertible for export
use. In Europe these games were set to novelty mode where a WOW scores
50,000 points. Since free balls were illegal in Italy, the games were
limited to 5 balls per game; the second ball count unit was used to tally
the high scores which were attainable in novelty mode (up to 1,999,990).
Frank R.
"ldnayman" <ldna...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0788dfd-8743-41dc...@k6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
use. In Europe these games were set to novelty mode where a WOW scores
50,000 points. Since free balls were illegal in Italy, the games were
limited to 5 balls per game; the second ball count unit was used to tally
the high scores which were attainable in novelty mode (up to 1,999,990).
Frank R.
"ldnayman" <ldna...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0788dfd-8743-41dc...@k6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Frank R.
Nov 13, 2012, 11:16:10 PM11/13/12
to
Adding the second ball count unit made the games convertible for export
use. In Europe these games were set to novelty mode where a WOW scores
50,000 points. Since free balls were illegal in Italy, the games were
limited to 5 balls per game; the second ball count unit was used to tally
the high scores which were attainable in novelty mode (up to 1,999,990).
Frank R.
"ldnayman" <ldna...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0788dfd-8743-41dc...@k6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
use. In Europe these games were set to novelty mode where a WOW scores
50,000 points. Since free balls were illegal in Italy, the games were
limited to 5 balls per game; the second ball count unit was used to tally
the high scores which were attainable in novelty mode (up to 1,999,990).
Frank R.
"ldnayman" <ldna...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0788dfd-8743-41dc...@k6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Wedgehead Killer
Nov 14, 2012, 12:28:01 PM11/14/12
to
I think Frank R is correct, it was the AAB laws in Italy. If you look at a Lucky Hand backglass from the back, you can see 100,000, 200,000... up to 900,000 etched in the glass in the blue backround above the girl, and to the left of the queen. I have had all 5 wow's lit and it was a marthon game. Once you get the WOW lit and the red cards only, you can nudge your way to heaven. HOwever this game will eat balls for the ball trappers because of the gap between the flipper lane and the outlane.
Todd Newman
Nov 14, 2012, 6:32:41 PM11/14/12
to
On Nov 14, 12:28 pm, Wedgehead Killer <petersonbr...@att.net> wrote:
> I think Frank R is correct, it was the AAB laws in Italy. If you look at a Lucky Hand backglass from the back, you can see 100,000, 200,000... up to 900,000 etched in the glass in the blue backround above the girl, and to the left of the queen. I have had all 5 wow's lit and it was a marthon game. Once you get the WOW lit and the red cards only, you can nudge your way to heaven. HOwever this game will eat balls for the ball trappers because of the gap between the flipper lane and the outlane.
Maybe, but I'm not totally giving up yet.
> I think Frank R is correct, it was the AAB laws in Italy. If you look at a Lucky Hand backglass from the back, you can see 100,000, 200,000... up to 900,000 etched in the glass in the blue backround above the girl, and to the left of the queen. I have had all 5 wow's lit and it was a marthon game. Once you get the WOW lit and the red cards only, you can nudge your way to heaven. HOwever this game will eat balls for the ball trappers because of the gap between the flipper lane and the outlane.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1175&picno=4895
Note the flyer for "High Seas" - which is the Italian version of the
AAB "Ship Ahoy", which in turn is the US AAB version of the replay
game "Buccaneer".
So, reading the flyer for the Italian version:
"Hitting 11 numbers lights 3 rollovers to score extra balls"
So....why would you have the Italian version advertise a feature that
is illegal in Italy?
....and why would there even BE an Italian version if it was the same
as Ship Ahoy?
Anyway, if I'm wrong, at least that means I'm not an old timer.
ldnayman
Nov 14, 2012, 6:42:27 PM11/14/12
to
You weren't actually winning free games, OR extra balls! You were
winning "wow!"
Maybe an oversight on the flyer who the hell knows.
Terrapin Mark
Nov 14, 2012, 7:44:36 PM11/14/12
to
Holy Fuck!
A pinball thread? You're/Your/yore the best :)
Grate guy alert! Bye with confidence.
RG3
A pinball thread? You're/Your/yore the best :)
Grate guy alert! Bye with confidence.
RG3
ldnayman
Nov 14, 2012, 9:30:04 PM11/14/12
to
Terrapin Mark
Nov 14, 2012, 9:38:29 PM11/14/12
to
Says the guy who is flying to go see the Eagles and Cowboys play :)
/´¯¯/)
,/¯.../
/..../
/´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../....../¨¯\
('(....´...´... ¯~/'..')
\..............'...../
\....LEIGH _.·´
\....VYE...(
\..............\
/´¯¯/)
,/¯.../
/..../
/´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../....../¨¯\
('(....´...´... ¯~/'..')
\..............'...../
\....LEIGH _.·´
\....VYE...(
\..............\
vivasantana
Nov 14, 2012, 9:45:34 PM11/14/12
to
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:38:29 PM UTC-5, Terrapin Mark wrote:
> On Nov 14, 9:30 pm, ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote: > You've gone full retard Mark. Says the guy who is flying to go see the Eagles and Cowboys play :) /´¯¯/) ,/¯.../ /..../ /´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../....../¨¯\ ('(....´...´... ¯~/'..') \..............'...../ \....LEIGH _.·´ \....VYE...( \..............\
Now Pinside would slap your ass for that! Haha...
> On Nov 14, 9:30 pm, ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote: > You've gone full retard Mark. Says the guy who is flying to go see the Eagles and Cowboys play :) /´¯¯/) ,/¯.../ /..../ /´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../....../¨¯\ ('(....´...´... ¯~/'..') \..............'...../ \....LEIGH _.·´ \....VYE...( \..............\
Rob
Rock on Carlos, Rock on!
Six decades strong!
ldnayman
Nov 14, 2012, 9:51:33 PM11/14/12
to
like Tom Brady on Sunday, if that makes you feel any better.
Terrapin Mark
Nov 14, 2012, 10:01:13 PM11/14/12
to
On Nov 14, 9:51 pm, ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote:
> Yeah well I'm also going to see the Skins defense make Nick Foles look
> like Tom Brady on Sunday, if that makes you feel any better.
Now that makes me feel better. I thought we had lost you!
> Yeah well I'm also going to see the Skins defense make Nick Foles look
> like Tom Brady on Sunday, if that makes you feel any better.
I am going to see the Skins play the Browns in Cleveland next month.
Stadium is just a few minutes away from Quicken Loans arena where I
saw Rush last month. When is the Abba concert in Chelsea?
How did this EM thread turn off topic? Oh wait a minute....!
ldnayman
Nov 14, 2012, 10:10:26 PM11/14/12
to
And I'm going to see the Stones twice next month.
Terrapin Mark
Nov 14, 2012, 10:13:01 PM11/14/12
to
On Nov 14, 10:10 pm, ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote:
> And I'm going to see the Stones twice next month.
Sorry to hear that dingleberry!
> And I'm going to see the Stones twice next month.
timne...@gmail.com
Nov 14, 2012, 10:17:50 PM11/14/12
to
of Diamond Jack, and Harmony-the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Melody,
Elite Guard, Italian Add-a-Ball version of Palace Guard, and actually
I understand it that there were no Italian versions of Subway or Ice
Show. They just sent Subways and Ice Shows to Italy. I'm only wondering,
when did Add-a-Ball machines suppose to have become illegal in Italy?
And also Hi Seas is listed as the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Ship
Ahoy and Buccaneer.
Frank Furhter
Nov 15, 2012, 12:37:55 AM11/15/12
to
--
The Frankster, a playfield prankster
Once upon my crank her ballpark shrank.
http://PinWiki.net, Prep-H 4 pinballers.
CARGPB #42 (Its free to join, sign up now!)
pinballtom
Nov 15, 2012, 7:22:31 AM11/15/12
to
There were indeed Italian versions of the both Subway and Ice Show
released exclusively for Italy;
that were slightly different than the US Versions of these same AAB
pins.
At least the BackGlasses are different,
not 100% sure about how they awarded Extra Balls.
If you look closely the USA versions of Ice Show
they have 10 numbers showing for balls to play
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4778
and the Italy versions have a BG with only 5 numbers displaying for
balls to play
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1263
(I am betting that some of the ice skaters on the Italian BG
would light up to designate extra balls "won")
Same happens with Subway
5 numbers showing on Italian model
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4777&picno=13102&zoom=1
(with the 5 passengers under the Game Title on the BG probably lit up
for extra balls "won")
but 10 numbers dispalyed on BG for US AAB model.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2412&picno=2301
And for CardTrix the Italian AAB is not showing any numbers for Balls
to Play
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3748&picno=49394
its got 5 little green flags instead ( to show player what extra balls
they won)
with the 5 balls (to play) given at the start of game play,
displayed (but hidden) until back lit;
compared to US version with normal 10 numbers indicating Balls To Play
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=446&picno=10095
Sometimes its kinda fun looking at the Italian model's BackGlasses,
trying to determine how they were able to "slyly" display
( to the player ) what extra balls they earned,
above and beyond the normal balls given at start of the game.
Some times it was flags or balls or stars or star bursts
Or cacti flowers or billiard balls or little fishies.
cheers Pinballtom
released exclusively for Italy;
that were slightly different than the US Versions of these same AAB
pins.
At least the BackGlasses are different,
not 100% sure about how they awarded Extra Balls.
If you look closely the USA versions of Ice Show
they have 10 numbers showing for balls to play
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4778
and the Italy versions have a BG with only 5 numbers displaying for
balls to play
http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1263
(I am betting that some of the ice skaters on the Italian BG
would light up to designate extra balls "won")
Same happens with Subway
5 numbers showing on Italian model
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4777&picno=13102&zoom=1
(with the 5 passengers under the Game Title on the BG probably lit up
for extra balls "won")
but 10 numbers dispalyed on BG for US AAB model.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2412&picno=2301
And for CardTrix the Italian AAB is not showing any numbers for Balls
to Play
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3748&picno=49394
its got 5 little green flags instead ( to show player what extra balls
they won)
with the 5 balls (to play) given at the start of game play,
displayed (but hidden) until back lit;
compared to US version with normal 10 numbers indicating Balls To Play
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=446&picno=10095
Sometimes its kinda fun looking at the Italian model's BackGlasses,
trying to determine how they were able to "slyly" display
( to the player ) what extra balls they earned,
above and beyond the normal balls given at start of the game.
Some times it was flags or balls or stars or star bursts
Or cacti flowers or billiard balls or little fishies.
cheers Pinballtom
timne...@gmail.com
Nov 15, 2012, 9:45:32 PM11/15/12
to
Todd Newman
Nov 15, 2012, 10:18:15 PM11/15/12
to
On Nov 15, 7:22 am, pinballtom <pinball...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There were indeed Italian versions of the both Subway and Ice Show
> released exclusively for Italy;
> that were slightly different than the US Versions of these same AAB
> pins.
> At least the BackGlasses are different,
> not 100% sure about how they awarded Extra Balls.
> If you look closely the USA versions of Ice Show
> they have 10 numbers showing for balls to playhttp://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4778
> There were indeed Italian versions of the both Subway and Ice Show
> released exclusively for Italy;
> that were slightly different than the US Versions of these same AAB
> pins.
> At least the BackGlasses are different,
> not 100% sure about how they awarded Extra Balls.
> If you look closely the USA versions of Ice Show
> and the Italy versions have a BG with only 5 numbers displaying for
> balls to playhttp://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1263
> (I am betting that some of the ice skaters on the Italian BG
> would light up to designate extra balls "won")
> Same happens with Subway
> 5 numbers showing on Italian modelhttp://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4777&picno=13102&zoom=1
> would light up to designate extra balls "won")
> Same happens with Subway
> (with the 5 passengers under the Game Title on the BG probably lit up
> for extra balls "won")
> but 10 numbers dispalyed on BG for US AAB model.http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2412&picno=2301
> for extra balls "won")
> And for CardTrix the Italian AAB is not showing any numbers for Balls
> to Playhttp://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3748&picno=49394
> its got 5 little green flags instead ( to show player what extra balls
> they won)
> with the 5 balls (to play) given at the start of game play,
> displayed (but hidden) until back lit;
> compared to US version with normal 10 numbers indicating Balls To Playhttp://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=446&picno=10095
> they won)
> with the 5 balls (to play) given at the start of game play,
> displayed (but hidden) until back lit;
>
> Sometimes its kinda fun looking at the Italian model's BackGlasses,
> trying to determine how they were able to "slyly" display
> ( to the player ) what extra balls they earned,
> above and beyond the normal balls given at start of the game.
> Some times it was flags or balls or stars or star bursts
> Or cacti flowers or billiard balls or little fishies.
>
> cheers Pinballtom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Getting back to the issue. Solitaire- the Italian Add-a-Ball version
> > of Diamond Jack, and Harmony-the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Melody,
> > Elite Guard, Italian Add-a-Ball version of Palace Guard, and actually
> > I understand it that there were no Italian versions of Subway or Ice
> > Show. They just sent Subways and Ice Shows to Italy. I'm only wondering,
> > when did Add-a-Ball machines suppose to have become illegal in Italy?
> > And also Hi Seas is listed as the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Ship
> > Ahoy and Buccaneer.
Very nice. RGP at it's finest.
> Sometimes its kinda fun looking at the Italian model's BackGlasses,
> trying to determine how they were able to "slyly" display
> ( to the player ) what extra balls they earned,
> above and beyond the normal balls given at start of the game.
> Some times it was flags or balls or stars or star bursts
> Or cacti flowers or billiard balls or little fishies.
>
> cheers Pinballtom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Getting back to the issue. Solitaire- the Italian Add-a-Ball version
> > of Diamond Jack, and Harmony-the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Melody,
> > Elite Guard, Italian Add-a-Ball version of Palace Guard, and actually
> > I understand it that there were no Italian versions of Subway or Ice
> > Show. They just sent Subways and Ice Shows to Italy. I'm only wondering,
> > when did Add-a-Ball machines suppose to have become illegal in Italy?
> > And also Hi Seas is listed as the Italian Add-a-Ball version of Ship
> > Ahoy and Buccaneer.
dmarston
Nov 17, 2012, 12:34:11 AM11/17/12
to
ldnayman;2018566 Wrote:
> Anybody have any idea why Gottlieb went from the regular 10 position
> stepper unit on AAB games (as seen on stuff like Pop A Card or Pinup)
> and decided they'd be better off adding another stepper unit on later
> games like Ship Ahoy or Team One?
book.
The operative principle is that some parts of Italy were more tolerant
than
others. By the late 1970s, Gottlieb apparently figured that they should
have
one title that would serve as an American AAB, Italian AAB, and a
non-AAB
novelty game with super-high scoring. "Italian AAB" refers to the policy
that
the balls-to-play count could never be shown to increase, unlike the
more
conventional American system where there is just one balls-to-play
counter.
Having the limit of 5 extra balls per ball-in-play was a convenient
by-product,
but I've never heard any factory source contend that it seriously held
down
the game times.
Regarding the "five similar objects" used to show extra balls in the
Italian AAB
system: this is one of the reasons that IPDB wants to have a picture of
the
back (interior) side of the backglass for every game.
................David Marston
--
dmarston
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