Tron Pro/LE 3Bank target question. Testers needed.
jackal2001
I need some testers out there.
1. Take glass off.
2. Start a game, launch the ball and keep it held on a flipper or
whatever. Just make sure the ball search doesn't kick in.
3. Manually hit the 3 bank targets until it drops.
A. Does your 3 bank target drop and stay dropped?
B. Does your 3 bank target drop, come back up, then drop again?
Test this scenero a few times.
reason: i've had, and others have had, issues where the bank goes
down and back up causing the ball, if hit in the disc area right away,
to get caught behind the bank while the disc is spinning. i've also
watched the bank cycle multiple times for no reason.
i've already called stern and discussed this issue. i told them i saw,
in test mode, that you get ghost switch contacts sometimes. more to
come on this later....
Please post your findings. If you have a 50/50% of it doing that, then
post that it isn't consistant also.
--
jackal2001
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
T-roy
It drops then back up then drops again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJg3wJboTA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Fattrain
No Need to go home and test my LE, because I have already noticed
this....
It goes down, then up, then down again (most of the time)...
I have stuck balls behind that dropgate before (which is why I started
noticing in the first place).
Please keep me/us updated on the status of this!
Thank you :-)
--
Fattrain
- - - - - - - - -
PinTrain / Justin
Sacramento, CA
jackal2001
your results.
I have an LE.
Thanks again.
George
jackal2001 <thej...@rcn.com> wrote:
Hello Jackal:
I am not quite sure I am following here.
Can you send me some better instructions on what exactly you are trying
to say. It would appear you are pretty much obsessed from all your LE
postings.
I just got my LE a few days ago and have found no issues whatsoever you
are talking about. Maybe there is something not connected correctly
under your play field. Have you considered that before calling and
complaining to Stern? I am sure they have much better things on their
mind then dealing with some guy who may just have an issue he has
invented.
George
jackal2001
> In article <jackal2001.4x6...@gmail.com>,
I didn't invent anything as they tested in their shop and saw the same
switch close a second time as I did before moving to the next switch
in the cycle.
I've had my motor/switch bracket out and watched it. Sometimes the
motor backs off a hair which deactivates the switch before moving
forward. This backing off and going forward will give you a, (close,
open, close, open) circuit when it should just be (close, open)
planters49
Mine goes up and down and then stays down. I have an LE
Pinboy
my TRON LE.
MB
> OK I ALSO do not need to go home and test, because it IS happening on
> my TRON LE.
Is it my imagination- or are we having a few more QA/QC problems than
usual form Stern on this title?
Recognizer wiring backwards, mis-aligned plungers, rubber discs flying
off the spinner and now this.
Two mechanical and possibly 2 software issues. Not good.
shinynick
T-roy;1745258 Wrote:
> I thought that was kind of weird when I saw this Tron video at 1:24.
> It drops then back up then drops again.
>
That's my Tron LE in the video, mine does the extra 3 bank cycle as
well.
Seems weird. All the switches are working correctly.
Nick
--
shinynick
phishrace
> Is it my imagination- or are we having a few more QA/QC problems than
> usual form Stern on this title?
Compared to other recent games? Sure. Remember though that Spidey was
total junk mechanically and software-wise when it was released. That
game seems to have worked out okay.
Don't own a Tron, but if I did, I don't think I'd hit the panic button
yet.
-phish
mnpinball
I've spoke with Jason (jackal2001) on the phone about this a few
times.
I unboxed a friends LE Monday and it was cycling 2 and sometimes 3
times before staying down.
We thought it wasn't right because a ball would get trapped behind the
bank before lowering and releasing it.
I then unboxed my LE that evening. Mine seems fine.
Out of say 10 games it acted up maybe twice, so 80% of the time it
goes down as normal.
soltic
drops, then the bank usually cycles up & down 1 more time which is a
little frustrating when u think u've got the shot into the disc just
to have it bounce off the bank or when it traps the ball in there
briefly.
I've noticed it doesn't happen all the time though & tested my bank
motor switches which are fine so I'm assuming it's software.
P/u LE 1.1 today from the distributor today, interested to see if
there's a fix...
Will post what I find!
-Rod
mnpinball
Probably because a majority of them are going into the home, and home
buyers read rgp.
Average op doesn't read rgp, and puts a game on location and just
collects the coin box.
soltic
>
> - Show quoted text -
What LE software r u running LE 1 or 1.1?
I've heard later shipments got 1.1.....
-Rod
jackal2001
I'm running 1.1 factory installed. Like I stated it could be the
motor/switch issue. Those microswitches they use are so sensitive,
more so than the B/W Cherry switches. At this point I don't know if
it is a switch issue where it is giving that ghost switch report, or
if it is a software issue.
MrSanRamon
> Out of say 10 games it acted up maybe twice, so 80% of the time it
> goes down as normal.
I don't own a Tron, but it doesn't sound to me like S/W (totally);
more like the switch that senses the targets drop isn't always working/
sensing.
I would think that if it does it some or most of the time it's a
mechanical issue, or a timing issue (s/w looks too soon or for too
short a time for a switch or opto "closure"); rather than a s/w issue.
Robert
vivasantana
>
> - Show quoted text -
That would be 2 timees too many, considering the cost of these things.
Rob
Rock on Carlos! Rock on!
jackal2001
They said "ya that isn't right" and "that shouldn't be happening".
They are going to send me a few more switches to test first. I don't
know if this is going to fix it. They also said the recognizer motor
on the LEs are the same so if I wanted to try that motor I could swap
them (to see if it moves a hair backwards before going forwards).
Chriskd
CD
Brian Smith
that do changing them?
Most likely the motor is running too long which passes up the switch
position, the cpu notices the switch is open, and since the motor runs
in a single direction it has to continue to the up and down direction
again. If they made the software drive the motor with less power so
it runs slower, then the switch would remain closed longer allowing
the motor to turn off at the correct time and not go past the switch
position.
Lloyd Olson
and push the wires in so they are seated very good and making good
electrical contact. LTG :)
"jackal2001" <jasonm....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:68154642-e501-45f0...@fv14g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
jackal2001
To see if the motor itself is the issue. Why would the motor back off
a hair say counter clockwise before going clockwise?
I guess you have to understand what I am talking about. Kind of hard
to do if you don't see it in person. Maybe I'll take some pics
tonight.
mnpinball
> If the wiring for the switch goes through an IDC connector nearby, be sure
> and push the wires in so they are seated very good and making good
> electrical contact. LTG :)
>
>
> news:68154642-e501-45f0...@fv14g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Just got off the phone with Stern after sending them Nicks video link.
> > They said "ya that isn't right" and "that shouldn't be happening".
>
> > They are going to send me a few more switches to test first. I don't
> > know if this is going to fix it. They also said the recognizer motor
> > on the LEs are the same so if I wanted to try that motor I could swap
> > them (to see if it moves a hair backwards before going forwards).
Dumb da dumb dumb TRON !
Pinboy
> Dumb da dumb dumb TRON !
oh well
Datafry
something, but then it started it a few times when it was not suppose
to. I'm also having issues with the opto behind the 3 bank that
triggers off and on. At first I thought it was an alignment problem,
but after aligning the opto's better, it's not as bad but still
happens. You can really tell during zuse when all targets are worth
something.
Tron LE Software Version 1
jackal2001
open. As soon as he hits the shot to the disc, the bank starts coming
up and the ball slams into the 3bank, and goes SDTM.
Around 2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYNAO6GkrpM&feature=related
Troy
_Troy
Mark W
danfritsch
Mine is running 1.1 and it keeps going up and down 2 or 3 times. No
switch errors, so something might be telling it to do that in the
software. Kinda irritating, the ball gets stuck up there every few
games.
Fattrain
I had posted earlier in this thread that it was happening on my LE as
well....
Just wanted to update and say that I have already updated to LE v1.1
and its still doing the same thing....
P.S. If anyone needs the LE 1.1 software email me
(Stern sending out 400 usb memory sticks for every update seems pretty
NON-COST effective in my book & they'll never keep it "off the internet"
anyways....)
--
Fattrain
- - - - - - - - -
PinTrain / Justin
Sacramento, CA
arcaderehab
goatdan
I've said this before, and it's really true -- Bally / Williams games
in the heyday had many more issues than this. I have an early DM that
has a 'first gen' skip ramp design (which means it rejects clean shots
to it maybe 25% of the time) and the ROMs that were in it were
absolutely abysmal. It was theoretically HUO it's entire life, and
the software was like P 1.0 or something and it had like 10 quotes in
it and had some combo rules, and that was about it. And unlike today,
where Stern actually informs their customers pretty clearly about how
to update things and do it regularly, unless you knew how to update
your ROMs, you didn't do this back in the day.
cody chunn
years ago?
-cody
"goatdan" wrote in message
news:c85e9cb8-7ed8-4c02...@u26g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
MB
I was only comparing TRON LE to other Sterns. I've had 17 Stern NIB
purchases since HRC- and, frankly, I can't remember having a single
issue (besides maybe a small cabinet flaw and incomplete software).
Not a one. So it just seems like they are rushing this one or there
is no longer in Quality Control.
Just sayin'
Come to think of it- I've had 9-10 NIB WMS/BLY machines from the 90's-
no problems there either except one- path of adventure on IJ needed
adjustment. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Brian Smith
Jonny O
we sort of were scratching our heads.
So far I think it's a very fun player - STERNs best since the "new
formula" of more random play. IM is still a lot of fun, though.
mr tobias
> I'm seeing this behavior on my pro, ver 1.5.
It's clear that many Tron owners are having this problem. I hope Stern
comes up with a fix for it as it is annoying and could even put some
players off out on location.
I'm surprised this one slipped through as Tron is still a relatively
uncomplicated game, and that descending bank of three targets is
hardly a new feature on Stern machines.
In the past I have found Stern machines to be very reliable out of the
box, so I have no axe to grind on that score, but Tron seems to have a
few issues, particularly the LE.
Mark W
after 56 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYlnq0bFNaw
jackal2001
> You can see it happening in my video a few times, first time just
> after 56 seconds.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYlnq0bFNaw
Thanks Mark. It looks like it actually cycled two times more than it
should have at 56 seconds.
I'm hoping that Stern calls me back today.
Pinboy
Played a few last night, and in one instance it cycled FOUR (4) times :
(
spidey
starting with just comparing the results from the 3-bank target
diagnostic test. I see a square for each position on the display, so I
assume these are the open/close indicators. Maybe on Tron they toggle
to represent the open/close/opne/close behavior that was mentioned. On
SM I see the curernt box just clears and then when the bank has
changed positions, the other box gets filled in.
mnpinball
Never had this issue with Spidey or Avatar here.
MB
easy software fix. Does Lyman know?
spidey
Exactly, me either. What I'd like to figure out is if they made a
hardware change (intentional or otherwise) from SM/Avatar, of if this
is just a software issue.
spidey
I e-mailed him, no word back.
mnpinball
My guess, and just a theory, that the cam that connects to the motor
was possibly misbuilt.
Say the Allen screw that the flat is on is off a hair when the collet
is punched or the laser/stamping procedure in manufacturing was off a
bit. Something to that effect. I was told that the code on the 3-bank
is the same copy and pasted from game to game when written. So in
reality a batch of these cams could all have been made this way.
Again, my Spidey and Avatar did not have this problem.
Is there not enough slot adjustment to adjust the switches ?
I have not messed with mine.
MB
Jason's theory is a possibility, but even if there is a mechanical
defect- it can still be corrected in software. If the switches are
ghosting, then perhaps therein lies the problem (are these a different
switch barnd, etc). But, again, switches that are too sensitive can
also be addressed in software.
It seems there are enough issues that yet another software update is
now a forgone conclusion.
jackal2001
>
> - Show quoted text -
The easiest solution, if the switch ghosting because it is so
sensitive is the actual problem which I think it is, would be to delay
the motor from spinning a few ms after the switch activates.
They can easily take out the motor/switch assembly and watch it as the
cam rotates. When the switch activates, wait until the cam reaches
its high point, then shut the motor off by setting a delay.
I suggested that maybe the parts manufacure of the motor may be
different or something may have changed with the parts that is now
causing the issue. Who knows.
When I called Stern back today, they said the guys are looking at it.
jackal2001
Replaced both switches with B/W cherry ones. I get no ghost switch
errors anymore. Cycled the 3Bank in test mode about 30 times and no
duplicate switches went off.
Tested in game for a while and it still happens. Maybe a code
issue???
So I give up now. Its in the hands of Stern to fix.
MrStern
My SM does the same thing, i always thought it was part of the game
software.
jackal2001
I just played 5 games of SM and I don't see it happening at all. You
running 2.6 SM code?
Detroitboy
> I need sometestersout there.
>
> 1. Take glass off.
> 2. Start a game, launch the ball and keep it held on a flipper or
> whatever. Just make sure the ball search doesn't kick in.
> 3. Manually hit the 3 bank targets until it drops.
>
> A. Does your 3 bank target drop and stay dropped?
> B. Does your 3 bank target drop, come back up, then drop again?
>
> Test this scenero a few times.
>
> reason: i've had, and others have had, issues where the bank goes
> down and back up causing the ball, if hit in the disc area right away,
> to get caught behind the bank while the disc is spinning. i've also
> watched the bank cycle multiple times for no reason.
> i've already called stern and discussed this issue. i told them i saw,
> in test mode, that you get ghost switch contacts sometimes. more to
> come on this later....
>
> Please post your findings. If you have a 50/50% of it doing that, then
> post that it isn't consistant also.
>
> --
> jackal2001
Mine does the same thing....factory 1.1