So I came across a Stern NBA test machine..??
ToddIsBored
noticed a few differences, and realized what it was. Played a few
games, then snapped some pics. You can check them out here in all
their camera phone quality goodness.
yetterben
Milt
> Looks like a big ol turd. :P
Let the bashing begin!
yetterben
come on its basketball...........only thing basketball related that
ever rocked was nba jam
PT
theme. It's not supposed to be a second coming of Spiderman or AFM.
It's a game that required very little design work and can hopefully
keep Stern going until the economy recovers. Most of all its a new
game. We should all be thankful that ANY new games are being
released.
Hey, at least its not an EM, a crane or a redemption machine!
John
Milt
> Why bash? It's a simple game for location with a great international
> theme. It's not supposed to be a second coming of Spiderman or AFM.
> It's a game that required very little design work and can hopefully
> keep Stern going until the economy recovers. Most of all its a new
> game. We should all be thankful that ANY new games are being
> released.
>
> Hey, at least its not an EM, a crane or a redemption machine!
>
> John
I have no idea, ask the people that have been trashing this game since
the idea was first mentioned. But then again, hasn't the last few Stern
machines been bashed for being "garbage" and "The Death of Stern
Pinball" before they were even seen?
Xerico
Why is Allen Iverson on the translite???
Steve Nash would have been a much better choice. Especially
considering all the Canadians that his mug would attract!!
My only serious question is regarding price. Is this priced at the
same level as 24 and CSI?
Marcus
derek
I am not going to knock it until I try it; looks like it could be ok.
At least we are still getting new games.
derek
ToddIsBored
Oh I forgot to add.. The half-court circle is a spinning platter like
whirlwind.
Les Manley
JKir...@yahoo.com
balanced looking field with no shitty gimmicks, I'm eager to play this
one.
It looks like a pinball machine, not a board game with a silver ball
in it. This could sell a few units.
Joe
m6onz5a
so does it suck?
ToddIsBored
Software wise, way too early to say anything.
Shots felt good, but in the end it's a Space Jam with a spinning
platter in the middle of the playfield. Not to say it's bad or good,
just that it shouldn't be critiqued as a new game, but instead as an
oldie revived(that doesn't have bugs bunny yelling 'MJ MJ MJ MJ MJ!'
incessantly lol). Hopefully some good work will be put into the
software/ruleset, to further separate it from Space Jam.
Oh and that platter is so perfectly circular and level, with
absolutely no marking. I had no idea when it was spinning or when it
wasn't, until the ball touched it.
Joe Jet
And...am i seeing correctly the ball can actually go in or miss that
hoop via the ramp? looks to high, but that would be cool... assuming
that hoop is made of steel!
ToddIsBored
Only time the shot missed via that ramp was by falling too short.
The sinkhole to the right of the MVP dropbank fires the ball up
towards the basket. It went in about 50% of the time for me.
The right plastic ramp has a small metal ramp in it that rises up as
the ball hits the first switch, you can see it in one of the pictures.
The sinkhole for multiball, that needs something to make the shot
stick. More than half my shots bounced right back out
jb...@comcast.net
spacejam and the NBAFB I can get on Epay for only 4800.
chuck
Is this really real? They are re-using the spacejam design in a "new"
pin? It might sell well in foreign countries who love the nba but I
don't know about here. Costs are probably much lower due to the
repurposing.
hobs
Hobbs
Lloyd Olson
"hobs" <ho...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:016b18d9-ee92-4c32...@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
kbliznick
> Is this really real? They are re-using the spacejam design in a "new"
> pin? It might sell well in foreign countries who love the nba but I
> don't know about here. Costs are probably much lower due to the
> repurposing.
I like the looks of it. The parque floor looks great. I just wish
Stern would stop doing the red into blue fade (on the apron) as the
colors come out purple and pink in between.
Stern did a great job with rethemeing FG into Shrek. I think they'll
do an even better job of retooling a turd of a theme into something
much better.
How many other games are there that noone is interested in picking up
used because the themes are terrible or dated. There are a quite a
few titles that might have great gameplay but the themes are so bad I
wouldn't want to own them and don't seek them out because of the
theme. I have never played it but space jam looks ugly, from the
descriptions here the sound is annoying and the game play was bad.
Yes the game has a similar lay-out to Space Jam (same PF layout and
ramp although even the inserts are in different places), but it will
have different art, different sounds, different software (on a
different boardset). Different ramp lay-outs, 3 ways to shoot the
basket with a chance of a miss. For all intent purposes this is a
different game!! and to me I see little difference between the
similarities between the new NBA and SJ as I would see the differences
between say High Speed 1 and 2, or Firepower 1 and 2, Pinbot and
Jackbot, or Flash and BK2K, and many other games that were very
similar to others. Anyway I hope I am making my point. Although it
is highly derivative of another previously made game I would hate to
bash it before even one quarter has been dropped into it. Jackbot
and Pinbot are perfect examples of how much a game can be changed just
with the software let alone ramp changes. IIRC the only differences
in the layout from Pinbot was the addition of one switch at the mini-
PF exit and the DMD. The depth of the game was greatly enhanced in the
jackbot version.
I wonder what percentage of their development time and money is saved
with this partial re-theme? The tooling and engineering for the
ramps, ball guides, plastics and main PF lay-out are the same (minus
the insert lamp holes and spinning disc). Wiring harness will be very
similar but still different (different lamp locations, the rest should
be very similar). Bill of materials for PF assembly will be almost
the same. The software will be all new, the artwork is all new, the
animations are all new, I'm assuming the rules will be different.
I feel the theme on this one will hold up much better in 10 years than
say CSI or 24 or X-files or Baywatch and some other TV-show based
themed pins.
Del
I for one liked NBAFB, But could not stand the scoring of that game,
I mean a great game was about 120 points total & that just killed it
for me .
I have never played SJ, So I can not judge that game, That said I
think it would be Great for Stern if these games Sold like hot-cakes
over-sea's to help them get their feet back on the ground, I havent
seen a CSI or 24 on location to play either, But the TV shows Suck &
I'm not going to go out looking for these to play, But talking about
re-makes, If this game does well it could lead to better games like
NFL or Hockey & anything that is good for Stern would be Good for
Pinball !
I won't bash this game just because it looks like a re-done SJ .
Pin-Del,
cargpb28
gamefixer
What a waste of wood, paint, wire and time...
Matt
american...@hotmail.com
Welcome to America, where we are free to think and have our own
opinions.
warp9pinball
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't watch basketball, but I still like NBAFB and I'll play this
game. The low scoring on NBAFB is one of the things I love about the
game.
Taylor-VA
interesting.
Or at least re-making something interesting.
taylor34
Money saving, yes, but sales to the rgp type crowd are going to be
about zip. Might be a decent game for location though, the theme is
better than CSI at least and can be put anywhere from a movie theater
to a bar. The rules are going to either save or kill this game in the
long run, no doubt about that.
I think they had the chance to really to make a unique game with the
theme, it's too bad they decided to reuse something on this.
Taylor34
kbliznick
> I think they had the chance to really to make a unique game with the
> theme, it's too bad they decided to reuse something on this.
>
> Taylor34
Unique how? You mean with ramps and spinners and flippers and pop
bumpers. Stern hasn't added anything unique to pinball since they
added the DMD when they were data east.
NBA looks like it might be a great player. The basketball hoop is a
very obvious toy when someone walks up to the machine and should be a
great draw. The fact that not every shot is going to go into the
basket is appealing to me to make it more of a challenge.
I think the theme has a very wide appeal to alot of demographics and
it's very clean looking. A game doesn't have to be cluttered with junk
to be good. I think theme alone is going to make this a great game
for the home market. While RGP is part of the home market (and a very
active and vocal part of it) it is not by any means more than a small
percentage of it. Ignore the fact that it is a redesigned SJ (which
most people outside of RGP won't know or care) and I think this game
will do well.
As a side note I expect to see this game much sooner in my city
(Tucson) than any of the last few games from Stern. No 24 or CSI
around and I only just got to try TDK and IJ4 for the first time this
weekend and after 1 extremely long game on each I was done with both
of them, After 20+ minutes on BDK and still on ball 2 I was ready to
let the ball drain just to get it over with. I left credits on both
of these games. Went up to a WOF and played about 5 games in 20
minutes. Now this was more interesting then either of the other 2 and
felt like a real challenge. I like the oddball lay-out and hope they
can figure out a way to retheme this one next with more complete
software.
CornCob
... and look where that's got you today?
Ping
PT
their cribs...
John
On Apr 28, 5:35 am, Steven <steven.vander.sta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> Although I hope the re-themed thing isn't going to be used for the
> next 5 pinballs, I don't care if once in a while they retheme a
> playfield. I think most of it's succes (as far as I'm concerned)
> stands or falls with the new software, sound and animations, but
> mostly the rules-software. The same time, that's my main concern: will
> the rules be good enough.
>
> I agree WOF would be a great layout to use again. I'd rather have a re-
> themed game and then a well-designed game like WOF, SM, POTC (my
> opinion) or 24 (what I hear), then just total-new games, but all more
> like IJ4. It's said some/a lot of us would rather see less new
> pinballs, but better ones, then 4 new pinballs a year. I think re-
> using 2 old ones in a year, is a good sollution which, hopefully,
> won't take that much time and effort so Stern can keep more time for
> the other 2 new ones.
> As always: I'm eager to play this new pinball, even though it's not
> completely new.
>
> Oh, and I agree with kbliznick: rather have shorter games. Somehow,
> I'd like to play a short game again more then a long one. Played a TOM
> in a pub a lot, paid much, tried getting a replay (very hard) or a
> high score, and when it was replaced by a Batman (Sega one), I played
> 2 games, of which one was free.... after that, I'd seen enough, even
> though I don't think the shots itself were boring.
djcha...@hotmail.com
that might encourage them to continue to produce crap like this.
Maybe next they'll turn Popeye into Titanic.
jackofd...@earthlink.net
How come the software is never done?
Ozricman
and a 24. And in the reflection of the backglass, you can see the
word ZONE. Thats all I got, go find it.
gamefixer
Well thank you very much!
I still think that the game is going to suck wind. I really hope I'm
wrong though. I love pinball and want to see Gary and the crew stick
around for a long time.
Matt
american...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
The main thing that matters is if players put money in the machine.
american...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
REVEALED!
Brunswick Zone
3111 River Road
River Grove, IL 60171
rond...@comcast.net
> At first I was like, 'hmmm that's an odd looking SpaceJam'. Then I
> noticed a few differences, and realized what it was. Played a few
> games, then snapped some pics. You can check them out here in all
> their camera phone quality goodness.
>
> http://www.toddisbored.com/pinball/NBA
I predict that this will be a very good seller for Stern, especially
if it can be a few dollars less expensive. It's not going to sell to
pinheads, but it should be a good operating unit and the general
public should go for it.
Rick Swanson
>
> ....They are re-using the spacejam design in a "new"
> pin?
I'm one of the few who really really likes Space Jam. The "sneaker
squeak" gets old pretty quick, but the rest of it is pretty darn good
in my book. Plus, I grew up in the heyday of the Warner Brothers
cartoon era, so the game appeals to the little kid that still lurks
inside my old fat man facade. ;-)
Rick Swanson
gpsdrew
If this is what they need to do to survive then so be it. As others
have said, I'm just happy to see a new game.
With the way it looks, it''s not intimidating and may even attract new
players.
Honestly I don't think many people outside the hobby will recognize it
as a do-over...
Drew
ldnayman
Even ops probably won't remember it. Space Jam is 15 years old.
Still this is pretty bizarre in my opinon. I guess they'll be
retheming Robocop or Playboy 35th anniversary next?
american...@hotmail.com
Good point, Gottlieb made a new baseball themed pin with most being
somewhat similar every few years.
azpinlawyer
Gottlieb re-themed pins CONSTANTLY!! Target Alpha and its numerous
variations, Orbit, Eye of the Tiger, Jacks (to) Open--I'm sure there
are MANY more.
american...@hotmail.com
First one that I really noticed was Sheriff/Lawman to Atlantis.
gpsdrew
>
> - Show quoted text -
So then is this really a bad thing?
I know it may not be what RGP or collectors want, but myabe it has an
upside to it for other reasons.
I can think of a few possibilities...
Drew
Sam
I'm a bit confused by Stern. Not that long ago, it sounded like they
were gonna pay more attention to the home market cuz the operator market
is/was dropping. 24 came out not that long ago too. Now, I understand
that there needs to be something in the pipe but when is NBA suppose to
come out? I would think soon since it's the middle of the playoffs now.
Does that mean that 24 is selling like crap if they're ready to put
NBA out in public?
Sam
american...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not bad in the least bit to me. A remade Williams OXO or Gold Rush in
Solid State (heck, in EM as well) would be bought NIB by me as soon as
it came out.
kidorbit
I agree. The more money Stern makes the more resources that can be
allocated for the development of more complex machines. This new NBA
machine appears to be targeted to operators and I'd expect it to do
OK. It seems like a souped-up Gottlieb "Street Level" experiment
although without any other competitive pin manufacturers I think the
concept will do better this time around.
Mike W. from NJ
> Gottlieb re-themed pins CONSTANTLY!! Target Alpha and its numerous
> variations, Orbit, Eye of the Tiger, Jacks (to) Open--I'm sure there
> are MANY more.
And each time Gottlieb did it (especially when AABs and Replay games
differed), some element of scoring or game goals changed to really
differentiate the first game from the spinoff (sometimes in not-so-
good ways). And this was in primative times (ie there wasn't too much
they could do by adding a few relays and a stepper but it DID make a
difference in the game to those that studied the [primative] strategy
of the day).
But in this case, with a few tweaks to playfield (which it seems they
have done) a new theme, and all new Software, I would suggest that
this is a NEW game. As somebody said, it's not the 2nd coming of AFM
or Spiderman but if they can push 10 of these to every NBA arena, to
foreign markets, etc. and make some dough then good enough for me.
If people are offended by it then just look at it as another
redemption game that we'll likely never see unless we take our
toddlers to Chuck E Cheese.
I still can't see how they can make money though. Considering the
fact that they won't finish code on WoF, etc (here we go again), how
do they think they can make $$ creating new software, art, licensing,
testing and distribution, etc. Sure they don't have to tool new ramps
or pay a design firm to create a new layout but still.
Having said all of this, if they were to make an NHL version of this
game, I'd be up for it but that's just me.
-Mike W. from NJ
www.EMwhite.org
acarp...@madixinc.com
insert reminder that gary doesn't care about what we think here..
An insert for a rebound and a captive ball with one target to get a
rebound. Lets hope the rules make this harder than collect all
pirates or sinking a ship. Rules will be everything for this game.
Lets hope keith can ... oh wait.. Lyman can work his.. oh wait..
he is busy with current releases and finishing IJ4 and BDK when
possible. can Lonnie be up to the challenge? I can wait and see..
How bout a conspiracy mode that makes sure Kobe and LaBron meet in the
finals. or a mode where you have to purposely tank it to get a better
darft pick. and then there could be throw off the spread mode so the
offical has to answer to the bookie. It basketball people, how good
could it be..
Alan
LOL..
frenchy
> > I think they had the chance to really to make a unique game with the
> > theme, it's too bad they decided to reuse something on this.
>
> > Taylor34
>
> Unique how? You mean with ramps and spinners and flippers and pop
> bumpers. Stern hasn't added anything unique to pinball since they
> added the DMD when they were data east.>>
I think he meant they should have used a more unique theme... probably
meaning make it a specific movie or character license instead of just
'basketball'.
I don't see what the big deal is, we're in a bad recession and they
weren't rolling in money before this, so they came out with a wide-
appeal game (practically unlicensed compared to other pins of late)
using a seen-before playfield. I wouldn't buy one unless it somehow
turns out to have software and rules in the realm of LOTR or something
spectacular like that, but hey put one in a bar and I'll toss in a few
bucks. Getting harder and harder for me to believe pinballs are still
being built in the first place, but I'm glad they are. Rehashes like
this were done by Williams and Gottlieb when videogames were killing
them, I'm not exactly flabbergasted.
Lloyd Olson
3 months, and they are putting more in than Williams did. LTG :)
<jackofd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:637174f5-798d-4cfa...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Olson
not a pin ? LTG :)
<djcha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0639021d-7125-4779...@z23g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
frenchy
> At Williams the programmers had 9 months to work on software, at Stern it's
> 3 months, and they are putting more in than Williams did. LTG :)
>
Besides, with all the contracting out to SRP and PLD etc,, are there
really any 'Stern programmers' per se anymore anyway? Are there any
game programmers left working directly at and for Stern?
And if a fix needs to be made to an SRP game, is Stern at the mercy of
them to do the fix or do they have people who can make these fixes at
Stern?
Lloyd Olson
market did. LTG :)
"Sam" <sam7...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rfFJl.24639$Db2.8859@edtnps83...
>
> I'm a bit confused by Stern. Not that long ago, it sounded like they were
> gonna pay more attention to the home market cuz the operator market is/was
> dropping. > Sam
frenchy
> Solid State (heck, in EM as well) would be bought NIB by me as soon as
> it came out.>>
Might be cool; I have a Gottlieb Amazon Hunt (SS re-do of Fast Draw)
in my restoration queue. But I would not pay $4,000 for it even if it
was NIB, to be damn sure. I think it's a big deal for a lot of home
buyers that for that kind of cash, they want a new-to-the-world
playfield layout as part of the deal, even if a remake turned out to
be a killer game.
Sam
How does the Stern factory work? Do they tool up for the next game
right away (from 24 to NBA) regardless of sales? Seems like there's no
lag time between 24 and NBA. Didn't that hurt TDK sales by having it
come out soon after IJ4? I take it that this has little to do with
China if they're producing it in China for the Chinese market. If NBA
doesn't come out very soon, is it gonna fizzle when the season is over?
Seems like 24 and NBA should have been reversed now.
Sam
Lloyd Olson
tournament, be sure and thank him. He loves pinball and is dedicated to
making things better. LTG :)
"frenchy" <mf10...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5f60d148-1053-44c1...@u39g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Olson
make 45 games a day, and made 200 CSI's, a lot of people aren't working
until the next game starts. LTG :)
"Sam" <sam7...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XuIJl.24737$Db2.23542@edtnps83...
Rare Hero
> Didn't that hurt TDK sales by having it come out soon after IJ4?
I think in terms of operators, they just bought a "BIG HIT MOVIE" pin
(IJ4) and it was earning well...they didn't have a reason to get
something "new and exciting" so soon....and in terms of collectors, I
think we were all too skeptical at that point w/ the incomplete
software of Spidey, WoF, and IJ4 to "take a chance" on Bats.
At least NBA is a totally different demographic than 24...they have a
shot at selling it to sports bars and whatnot.
Greg
Sam
work. I can't imagine 24 to be a big hit right now with the economy.
Sam
Rare Hero
> Serious? Only 200 CSI's? That's it? That's like a week's worth of
> work. I can't imagine 24 to be a big hit right now with the economy.
Have you seen a CSI on location? Know anyone who's clamoring for
one? See anyone here discussing it at all? I think only 2 or 3
RGP'rs bought it.
Greg
kirb
> variations, Orbit, Eye of the Tiger, Jacks (to) Open--I'm sure there
> are MANY more.
You can't really call an EM version (1, 2 and 4 player), add-a-ball
version, and a SS version of the same basic game released in the same
time period a re-theme. They were creating popular games for different
markets (EM ops, non-replay states, and keeping up with the times).
I'll give you the re-themed pins such as El Dorado and El Dorado city
of gold as taking a VERY popular EM and RE-RELEASING it in electronic
form, not re-theme.
Look at how many games and titles GTB was cranking out during those
years. WAY more than Stern has. GTB wasn't strapped for cash and dove
into the design bin for a free layout like someone else we know.
Kirb
kirb
> I still can't see how they can make money though. Considering the
> fact that they won't finish code on WoF, etc (here we go again), how
> do they think they can make $$ creating new software, art, licensing,
> testing and distribution, etc. Sure they don't have to tool new ramps
> or pay a design firm to create a new layout but still.
Don't discount the cost involved with design, parts, engineered
drawings, schematics, shop floor jigs, paying a designer, etc. You saw
this coming when they fired most of the designers.
Be ready for slew of re-hashed games as long as they can sling games.
Kirb
Sam
Well, I live in the Great White North. There's no pins on location
unless it's the airport. That's it. Judging from RGP threads on 24,
it's not doing so hot either.
Sam
Mike Schudel
>
> I have no idea, ask the people that have been trashing this game since the
> idea was first mentioned. But then again, hasn't the last few Stern
> machines been bashed for being "garbage" and "The Death of Stern Pinball"
> before they were even seen?
Death of pinball will be when "Big Buck Hunter" hits the street.
"POACHING MULTIBAAAAAAAL!!!!"
--
"All Your Pinball Are Belong To Us"
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
M B Scoop Repair: http://tinyurl.com/9lfu
Woz
> Still this is pretty bizarre in my opinon. I guess they'll be
> retheming Robocop or Playboy 35th anniversary next?
or how about DE Star Trek? There's a new Star Trek movie out this
year... :)
Woz
Lloyd Olson
collectors, one of each already changed hands. LTG :)
"Rare Hero" <rareh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c7c25674-3d81-43ac...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Sam
Out in 10 days, too late. How about a pin on 'Bruno'. lol.
Sam
Lloyd Olson
Kenny smashing down on the playfield you have Big Buck smashing down, and
that kid's voice screaming "you killed Big Buck". LTG :)
"Mike Schudel" <schu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ezJJl.93666$0%2.2...@newsfe22.iad...
ldnayman
> At Williams the programmers had 9 months to work on software, at Stern it's
> 3 months, and they are putting more in than Williams did. LTG :)
More ain't always better.
Jackbot's software is a masterpiece compared to most of the Stern
stuff.
kirb
> I thought it would be when BBH is a rehash of South Park, and instead of
> Kenny smashing down on the playfield you have Big Buck smashing down, and
> that kid's voice screaming "you killed Big Buck". LTG :)
I think the re-hash of the toilet of SP (and AP) to BBH would be the
death of Stern.
How telling.
Kirb
Les Manley
> On Apr 27, 5:34 pm, ToddIsBored <t...@toddisbored.com> wrote:
>
> > At first I was like, 'hmmm that's an odd looking SpaceJam'. Then I
> > noticed a few differences, and realized what it was. Played a few
> > games, then snapped some pics. You can check them out here in all
> > their camera phone quality goodness.
>
> >http://www.toddisbored.com/pinball/NBA
>
> I predict that this will be a very good seller for Stern, especially
> if it can be a few dollars less expensive. It's not going to sell to
> pinheads, but it should be a good operating unit and the general
> public should go for it.
I never got the impression that these were going to be any less then
the standard (what's it up to $4,300 now?)
mnpinball
3 rgp'rs were in Minnesota and they are still here ;-) Loved and
enjoyed.
mnpinball
> In my area only one CSI and one 24 on location. Two of each were bought by
> collectors, one of each already changed hands. LTG :)
>
>
> news:c7c25674-3d81-43ac...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 28, 12:44 pm, Sam <sam72w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Serious? Only 200 CSI's? That's it? That's like a week's worth of
> > work. I can't imagine 24 to be a big hit right now with the economy.
>
> Have you seen a CSI on location? Know anyone who's clamoring for
> one? See anyone here discussing it at all? I think only 2 or 3
> RGP'rs bought it.
>
> Greg
3 of each LTG. 1 or each changed hands within the circle of
pinheads.
Mine aren't going anywhere.
Lloyd Olson
"mnpinball" <mnpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93fb3648-5d8a-4519...@u9g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
ToddIsBored
footage. Should have the time to put it up tomorrow morning.
ToddIsBored
footage of gameplay. I'll have the time it put it up sometime very
late tonight or early tomorrow morning.
john8...@aol.com
> On Apr 28, 8:32 am, Ozricman <Ozric1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From the pics you can tell that the test location also has a Nascar
> > and a 24. And in the reflection of the backglass, you can see the
> > word ZONE. Thats all I got, go find it.
>
> > On Apr 27, 7:05 pm, hobs <ho...@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> > > Were was it located ?
> > > Hobbs- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> REVEALED!
>
> Brunswick Zone
> 3111 River Road
> River Grove, IL 60171
GAMEWORKS !!!!!!!!
BP_
Loved 24...and fastbreak will be fine. Longer play times, easy to
walk up to and recognize. Nifty shots, and a good spread on the field
of things to do. Its not going to have Simpson's deep rules, but
believe it or not the younger generation of kids who haven't grown up
with pinball, will be able to walk up recognize what to do and
play...and for those who are more skilled will be able to walk up
play, and work the levels of the game.
Don't hate it until you played it!
Rare Hero
> 3 rgp'rs were in Minnesota and they are still here ;-) Loved and
> enjoyed.
OK so the "RGP Neilson Ratings" for CSI and 24 are 3 each....what does
that translate to nationwide? Compare that to the amount of Spidey,
FGY, Batman, IJ4, and WoF (granted there was a price incentive) bought
by RGPrs, and the discussion those games have inspired. Seems like
almost no one cares about the last two titles.
Greg
Wolffy
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4023&picno=3805&zoom=1
-wolffy
--
-wolffy
"Hail! Hail! Rah! Rah! Rah!" - The Pharaoh
Wolffy
> OK so the "RGP Neilson Ratings" for CSI and 24 are 3 each....what does
> that translate to nationwide? Compare that to the amount of Spidey,
> FGY, Batman, IJ4, and WoF (granted there was a price incentive) bought
> by RGPrs, and the discussion those games have inspired. Seems like
> almost no one cares about the last two titles.
CSI and 24 have not been produced in the mass quantities we are use to
seeing in a standard production run. The end result is many people have
not seen one. I personally have not seen yet played a single game of
CSI. I have played 24 and talked about it here. Someothers jumped in
that conversation but there is one RGP who jumps on every thread and
responds "24 is greta, shut up and don't say anything about it!" Kinda
kills off having any good discussions of the game.
The initial run of 24 was 800 (based on stuff I overheard so don't
assume that is 100% accurate). When word got out that the game was good
more distributors wanted to buy but Stern had sold out. So getting 24
out on location so the general public can put play time in will be slow
going.
Rare Hero
> CSI and 24 have not been produced in the mass quantities we are use to
> seeing in a standard production run. The end result is many people have
> not seen one. I personally have not seen yet played a single game of
> CSI.
Call me a weirdo, but I'm actually more curious about playing CSI than
24. Not that either theme does anything for me, but from the videos
I've seen - I really like CSI's music and playfield aesthetic. Sure I
know the skull isn't much more than a lock gimmick but it looks pretty
cool.
Greg
skibum2002
surprised Stern actually hasn't come out with a new wrestling themed
game like WrestleMania or something. Royal Rumble seemed like a good
game. It would get the kids to play, John Cena, HHH, The Big Show,
etc. on the backglass and what not.
As you beat more levels you work your way up in championship belts.
Old School Al
CSI pf to 24's. Now 24 blows CSI away in ruleset but I'm not that good
anyway so I dont' care how 'deep' a game is. In fact I prefer a
simpler game and NBA's layout is right up my alley. In fact I have
also played NBA and it was a drain monster! OPs dream.
acarp...@madixinc.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Played them both last week. PF layout is nice for CSI but the
gameplay drove me back to 24. I spent the rest of my time on 24. No
decision for me, 24 would be one I would pick out of these two.
Alan
Abby Normal
> The main thing that matters is if players put money in the machine.
Yep! And this looks like a game normal folk might play.
The theme does nothing for me, but I can say that about almost every
recent stern.
kbliznick
http://www.toddisbored.com/pinball/NBA
One small critique on the PF layout, 4 stationary targets on left
side with 3 inserts "A L L" and 3 stationary targets on right side
with 4 inserts "S T A R" ????? So are all the switches on either side
just parallel and hitting any of the targets in a bank lights the next
insert? (i.e. left side is one switch, right side is one switch) I
am not a big fan of this when I have seen this on other machines
(Strange Science being the one right off the top of my head and maybe
Fishtales) This decreases game depth or difficulty.
Also the spinning disk is solid orange but from the pictures posted by
others it looks like they are going to put the basketball lines on it.
Questions on game play.
The 1 point shot (free throw) fires the pinball into the air towards
the basket, the 2 point is the metal lift on the right ramp, the 3
point is the left ramp. It looks like the left ramp is too low for
the shot, is there a metal lip or bump on the end of that ramp that
causes the ball to jump? ( I haven't played Space Jam). And is that a
magnet in the back board? If so does it grab the ball every time? I
would rather see the ability to miss the basket.
How was the game flow? It looks a little stop and go. With 2
saucers, and 3 different shots where a magnet might grab the ball it
seems like that might slow down the game a bit. I suppose if the
magnet is quick then this isn't a problem.
I still like the looks of it, with only the 2 ramps and 2 toys it's
somewhat of a system 11 type set-up, but as seen with Jackbot you can
have a deeper game even with a system 11 PF.
Thanks
Kris
BJones
I played Space Jam for the first time at the TPF, and actually liked
the playfield layout. The rules were kind of crappy though, and I
hope they do the layout justice.
It would be smoking hot if this game was something like $2200 - $2500
because of the cost reduction due to saving on design, tooling, etc.
I think that would be a major factor for this game to sell. Maybe ops
would be more inclined to buy if the price was that low. There
doesn't seem to be much to break down on the playfield other than the
flippers, slings, and usual basic pinball features. From what I've
seen of Stern games on route here in town, the flippers seem to last a
good amount of time. We've got a Spiderman here at the movie theater
that gets played A LOT and before it was even cleaned or serviced, 90
percent of lower pf gi was out and the rest of the game functioned
perfectly (although dirty). It was months before the op even touched
that thing. Hopefully this game can keep up with that pace.
A cheap new game that can stay on route without needing regular or
major repair could sell well I think. It may not be the best theme
but its definately recognizable; I'd sure as hell play it and I don't
even like basketball.
Brandon
Lloyd Olson
parts cost, I suspect it will be the same price as other current Stern pins.
LTG :)
( half price would be great, just don't see it possible )
"BJones" <re...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:76f99bf8-5730-4c71...@t36g2000prt.googlegroups.com...
It would be smoking hot if this game was something like $2200 - $2500
Brandon
BJones
Hehe, yeah i know. I'm just doing a little wishful thinking :).
Brandon
Lloyd Olson
now, and if Stern could retail pins for $2500, they'd be gold to the ops.
LTG :)
"BJones" <re...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:778f7cd6-5ee0-47b9...@g31g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
mr tobias
If NBA takes decent money on location, then that's a step in the right
direction pretty much regardless of what we think of the game here. I
don't know how much real world monitoring of earnings Stern carry out,
but pinball isn't earning enough to survive as a coin op phenomenon.
If they know this then they need to respond to it otherwise it's 'game
over' sooner or later. Maybe this latest game is an attempt to try
something simpler in response to poor earnings, or maybe it's just a
cost cutting measure.
Pinball is dropping off the public's radar, and it needs something
with wow factor to lure them back. I think non-enthusiasts are getting
tired of more of the same, and I'm not sure less of the same is the
answer. We need something fresh and different, but the opportunity to
produce something like that may have passed, at least for the
forseeable future. The SAM system seems capable of much more, but I
get the impression innovation is not in Gary Stern's thinking right
now, perhaps understandably given the economy. Sooner or later though
they need to innovate to survive.
Lloyd Olson
"mr tobias" <john_...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5f9e1059-7b43-4b52...@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
If NBA takes decent money on location, then that's a step in the right
direction pretty much regardless of what we think of the game here.
It will have to take in more than decent to justify the high cost of
equipment.
I don't know how much real world monitoring of earnings Stern carry out,
All they have to monitor is how many units they sell to distributors. That
tells everything.
loo...@goatstore.com
> On Apr 28, 2:50 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> > At Williams the programmers had 9 months to work on software, at Stern it's
> > 3 months, and they are putting more in than Williams did. LTG :)
>
> More ain't always better.
>
> Jackbot's software is a masterpiece compared to most of the Stern
> stuff.
Seriously?
To each his or her own I suppose. I adore Pinbot and the layout and
thought I would love Jackbot. The software made it my *least*
favorite B/W game that I have ever played.
loo...@goatstore.com
> Pinball is dropping off the public's radar, and it needs something
> with wow factor to lure them back. I think non-enthusiasts are getting
> tired of more of the same, and I'm not sure less of the same is the
> answer. We need something fresh and different, but the opportunity to
> produce something like that may have passed, at least for the
> forseeable future. The SAM system seems capable of much more, but I
> get the impression innovation is not in Gary Stern's thinking right
> now, perhaps understandably given the economy. Sooner or later though
> they need to innovate to survive.
Like Williams with Pinball 2000?
The thing is that I don't think the public will suddenly fall in love
with games that are so 'innovative' that they don't seem like
pinball. There is a novelty in the fact that there are much less
games on location now than there were, which is why I've been told
that in many locations, pins that are there are doing really well.
And I've mentioned it before -- the problem is three or four-fold:
1) Players don't want to pay more than 50 cents a game. Reread some
of the threads about it on these boards to hear people say that they
will not play games for $0.75 cents because it is a rip off.
2) Without charging much more, the real estate that it costs to house
a pinball machine, redemption machine or whatever might be better used
to house another table to sit people at instead of a game. Heck, if
you can serve one table an hour and that table averages a $20 /
transaction an hour, there is no way you'd ever see 80 people play a
pin in an hour to break the location 'even' for the space it takes up
at the costs of problem number 1.
3) Stern is unwilling to advertise to locations because their feeling
is that route operators need to, and because of that location owners
do not see the bonus in having a pinball machine or pinball machines.
I can tell you that I go to places specifically because they do have
pinball machines, and from running the MGC I have heard people discuss
where you can go to play that don't seem to be huge pinheads, so there
is a bonus to these locations that potentially helps with the second
issue, as having a machine ups the chances you fill more tables. But
since Stern is unwilling to advertise that fact, the locations don't
know it and don't ask operators for the games.
4) A lot of operators and locations don't understand the bonus in
having the games work relatively well. I'm not even saying error
free, but functioning flippers and not completely broken parts go a
long way toward people returning to play again and again. The
locations don't care to report the problems to most operators,
although they get a bad rep from players about their games when the
problems aren't fixed, and the operators may not spend the needed time
to check in on a game because as I've outlined before, it is simply
too expensive to to regular, long checks on games and stay in
business.
The first three, and to a lesser extent the fourth is the reason that
pinball is currently in trouble. If they could raise the price to a
dollar and demonstrate to locations why having machines benefits them,
I think pinball has a long life ahead of it. Between even the
hardcores whining about machines being placed at $0.75 cents a game
(or without having matches and easy replay settings) and the fact
Stern is unwilling to try to sell to anyone but the ops (admittedly,
their "market" but it doesn't increase the marketplace) means pinball
will continue to struggle.
mr tobias
> equipment.
Yes, the cost is now too high given what the equipment takes on
location. And the trend may now to be to give less for that
significantly higher cost.
Joe Blasi
> 4) A lot of operators and locations don't understand the bonus in
> having the games work relatively well. I'm not even saying error
> free, but functioning flippers and not completely broken parts go a
> long way toward people returning to play again and again. The
> locations don't care to report the problems to most operators,
> although they get a bad rep from players about their games when the
> problems aren't fixed, and the operators may not spend the needed time
> to check in on a game because as I've outlined before, it is simply
> too expensive to to regular, long checks on games and stay in
> business.
game works seems to keep the games working and they will fix them as as
well. At lest now they as they did not a few years ago.