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You never truly appreciate pop bumpers...
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skippy church
May 31, 2012, 5:47:12 AM5/31/12
to
...until you put them on a playfield. I'm in the middle of a playfield
swap, and am getting started by putting a lot of new stuff on the new PF
first. So, I started with my nemesis: pop bumpers. Don't get me wrong,
they're not super hard, but I'll be damned if there isn't, still, a lot
of parts and what not in these things.
Really makes you appreciate when a game has working pops, knowing all
the parts involved to make it happen!
--
skippy church
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
wayout440
May 31, 2012, 6:59:21 AM5/31/12
to
Ah, but on the other hand a game with many other good features and
layout, you won't really miss them as much as you might think. I have
an Elektra, and it's pretty darn fun without pops.
I have some pops that are pure evil on some of my other games...you
know, the ones where the casual slow ball gets blasted right between
your flippers at high speed. Simply...pure...EVIL! (but I love 'em)
--
wayout440
Kerry Imming
May 31, 2012, 7:08:27 AM5/31/12
to
"skippy church" <skippy...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:skippy.chu...@rrgparchive.com...
>
> ..until you put them on a playfield. I'm in the middle of a playfield
> swap, and am getting started by putting a lot of new stuff on the new PF
> first. So, I started with my nemesis: pop bumpers. Don't get me wrong,
> they're not super hard, but I'll be damned if there isn't, still, a lot
> of parts and what not in these things.
>
> Really makes you appreciate when a game has working pops, knowing all
> the parts involved to make it happen!
>
... and pretty darn clever the way they work.
> ..until you put them on a playfield. I'm in the middle of a playfield
> swap, and am getting started by putting a lot of new stuff on the new PF
> first. So, I started with my nemesis: pop bumpers. Don't get me wrong,
> they're not super hard, but I'll be damned if there isn't, still, a lot
> of parts and what not in these things.
>
> Really makes you appreciate when a game has working pops, knowing all
> the parts involved to make it happen!
>
- Kerry
Pinsgonewild
May 31, 2012, 8:14:59 AM5/31/12
to
On May 31, 7:08 am, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com> wrote:
> "skippy church" <skippychu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
So who is credited with the modern day pop bumper invention? Not the
early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
Don
> "skippy church" <skippychu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
Don
Kerry Imming
May 31, 2012, 12:43:10 PM5/31/12
to
"Pinsgonewild" <pinpl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:36adc023-5bdb-4a05...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> So who is credited with the modern day pop bumper invention? Not the
> early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
> the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
Good question. Harry Williams designed the first game that used them,
> early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
> the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
Saratoga in 1948 (according to IPDB).
Harry is responsible for a lot of pinball inventions, so he very likely
invented the pop bumper. Wayne Neyens has the patent on the pop bumper
spoon switch though, and that was in 1948 also.
- Kerry
Frank Furhter
May 31, 2012, 10:49:45 PM5/31/12
to
skippy church wrote:
> ..until you put them on a playfield. I'm in the middle of a playfield
> swap, and am getting started by putting a lot of new stuff on the new PF
> first. So, I started with my nemesis: pop bumpers. Don't get me wrong,
> they're not super hard, but I'll be damned if there isn't, still, a lot
> of parts and what not in these things.
>
> Really makes you appreciate when a game has working pops, knowing all
> the parts involved to make it happen!
>
>
Bumper my friend, look at bumper.
> ..until you put them on a playfield. I'm in the middle of a playfield
> swap, and am getting started by putting a lot of new stuff on the new PF
> first. So, I started with my nemesis: pop bumpers. Don't get me wrong,
> they're not super hard, but I'll be damned if there isn't, still, a lot
> of parts and what not in these things.
>
> Really makes you appreciate when a game has working pops, knowing all
> the parts involved to make it happen!
>
>
frenchy
Jun 1, 2012, 1:41:41 AM6/1/12
to
Given how the parts are basically unchanged from 65 years ago, the two
ideas together (skirt scoring and pop ring) have to be the out of the
box best-designed mech in pinball. Cleverest, most efficient, number
of moving parts. Compare that to flipper units and slingshot mechs -
different designs for different companies, linear vs. crank, big
changes over the years to increase power and durability.
If it wasn't for the hassle of the lamp socket lugs when removing the
pop's base (bending and unsoldering them, that crap) I would call pop
units the all-time perfect mech, but then I particularly hate messing
with those stinking lugs. : )
ideas together (skirt scoring and pop ring) have to be the out of the
box best-designed mech in pinball. Cleverest, most efficient, number
of moving parts. Compare that to flipper units and slingshot mechs -
different designs for different companies, linear vs. crank, big
changes over the years to increase power and durability.
If it wasn't for the hassle of the lamp socket lugs when removing the
pop's base (bending and unsoldering them, that crap) I would call pop
units the all-time perfect mech, but then I particularly hate messing
with those stinking lugs. : )
Aeneas - www.flippers.be
Jun 1, 2012, 2:23:30 AM6/1/12
to
I know how you feel, just recently shopped my Safecracker. With the 2 drop target banks right next to the popbumpers (removed these first) and the wiring loom passing next to that, it's been quite a challenge..
Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be
Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be
Kerry Imming
Jun 1, 2012, 8:33:57 AM6/1/12
to
"frenchy" <mf10...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4068eff5-5d37-4d9e...@n8g2000pbv.googlegroups.com...
the playfield. I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the Gottlieb ones,
but I haven't heard of many complaints.
The other huge invention was the flipper HOLD coil (i.e. dual-winding coil).
I don't know what game first introduced this, but those original games had
to have weak flippers just to prevent the coils from burning up. By the 70s
the EM games had flippers that were just as powerful as many of the later
games, but it's hard for me to define that exact point in time.
- Kerry
Terry Cumming
Jun 1, 2012, 1:17:09 PM6/1/12
to
On May 31, 12:43 pm, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com> wrote:
> "Pinsgonewild" <pinplay...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Stoner's Zeta in 1938 was the first game with an active pop bumper,
invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
> "Pinsgonewild" <pinplay...@gmail.com> wrote in message
invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
Frank Furhter
Jun 1, 2012, 2:47:42 PM6/1/12
to
NJ_Auctions
Jun 1, 2012, 3:37:15 PM6/1/12
to
I definitely gained appreciation for them the first time I replaced the skirts
G
Jun 1, 2012, 4:42:38 PM6/1/12
to
I took apart pop bumpers on a Xenon recently. Since I don't own
current game ie. ACDC 1. why are the pop bumpers so much more
responsive than a game like Xenon? Coil strength? 2. On current games
does Stern still use the light tab nailed to the pf? Why can't it be a
Molex connector? It would make things much easier. It's effective but
a not so fun job. Is it the cost?
current game ie. ACDC 1. why are the pop bumpers so much more
responsive than a game like Xenon? Coil strength? 2. On current games
does Stern still use the light tab nailed to the pf? Why can't it be a
Molex connector? It would make things much easier. It's effective but
a not so fun job. Is it the cost?
seymour.shabow
Jun 1, 2012, 5:06:05 PM6/1/12
to
G wrote:
> I took apart pop bumpers on a Xenon recently. Since I don't own
> current game ie. ACDC 1. why are the pop bumpers so much more
> responsive than a game like Xenon? Coil strength?
Could be, Bally pops of that era have a different 'feel' to them.
> I took apart pop bumpers on a Xenon recently. Since I don't own
> current game ie. ACDC 1. why are the pop bumpers so much more
> responsive than a game like Xenon? Coil strength?
However, they should still be responsive - do you have switch caps on
them? Also double check the adjustment, you want the spoon switch to
offer barely any resistance to the pop skirt, to make them more sensitive.
> 2. On current games
> does Stern still use the light tab nailed to the pf? Why can't it be a
> Molex connector? It would make things much easier. It's effective but
> a not so fun job. Is it the cost?
>
wouldn't want them to, too much vibration. (Actually I think they use
LEDs in the pops now)
G
Jun 1, 2012, 5:21:46 PM6/1/12
to
Sorry Scott. I should have been more clear and had more detail. My
center pop bumper had the ring separate and fall off during a game. I
replaced the ring. So the pop bumper works as it should except every
once in a while a direct hit at 12 o'clock results in a dead bumper
effect. The reason I ask about Stern bumpers is when I played ACDC
those bumpers are very fast. I've played enough Bally games (Dr
Dave's) to know how they should feel. Are they a different design?
Remember all I know is Bally games so I have no reference point. Not
even Gottlieb em games. That is why I ask. It is just cumbersome to
take a Bally out and thought there might be a better mousetrap.
Yes I have caps on all bumpers. I'm getting better with spoon
sensitivity.
Scott I always appreciate your help.
Skippy what game are you working on?
Aeneas: that sounds tight and a lot of work. Are the target banks
wired? Wouldn't' Molex connectors make that easier?
center pop bumper had the ring separate and fall off during a game. I
replaced the ring. So the pop bumper works as it should except every
once in a while a direct hit at 12 o'clock results in a dead bumper
effect. The reason I ask about Stern bumpers is when I played ACDC
those bumpers are very fast. I've played enough Bally games (Dr
Dave's) to know how they should feel. Are they a different design?
Remember all I know is Bally games so I have no reference point. Not
even Gottlieb em games. That is why I ask. It is just cumbersome to
take a Bally out and thought there might be a better mousetrap.
Yes I have caps on all bumpers. I'm getting better with spoon
sensitivity.
Scott I always appreciate your help.
Skippy what game are you working on?
Aeneas: that sounds tight and a lot of work. Are the target banks
wired? Wouldn't' Molex connectors make that easier?
seymour.shabow
Jun 2, 2012, 3:50:14 AM6/2/12
to
G wrote:
> Sorry Scott. I should have been more clear and had more detail. My
> center pop bumper had the ring separate and fall off during a game. I
> replaced the ring. So the pop bumper works as it should except every
> once in a while a direct hit at 12 o'clock results in a dead bumper
> effect. The reason I ask about Stern bumpers is when I played ACDC
> those bumpers are very fast. I've played enough Bally games (Dr
> Dave's) to know how they should feel. Are they a different design?
> Remember all I know is Bally games so I have no reference point. Not
> even Gottlieb em games. That is why I ask. It is just cumbersome to
> take a Bally out and thought there might be a better mousetrap.
Yeah, the early bally's have the type of pop body where you can't get
> Sorry Scott. I should have been more clear and had more detail. My
> center pop bumper had the ring separate and fall off during a game. I
> replaced the ring. So the pop bumper works as it should except every
> once in a while a direct hit at 12 o'clock results in a dead bumper
> effect. The reason I ask about Stern bumpers is when I played ACDC
> those bumpers are very fast. I've played enough Bally games (Dr
> Dave's) to know how they should feel. Are they a different design?
> Remember all I know is Bally games so I have no reference point. Not
> even Gottlieb em games. That is why I ask. It is just cumbersome to
> take a Bally out and thought there might be a better mousetrap.
the ring out without pulling the whole thing apart.... now THAT's a
PITA, since the part that's replaceable easily (the ring) isn't on that
era bally.
The dead spot is going to be related to the spoon adjustment. You can
put a bit of graphite in the spoon although I've never had to do that.
Replace the switch, too, as it's probably been adjusted/maladjusted over
the years.
Kerry Imming
Jun 2, 2012, 7:32:03 AM6/2/12
to
"seymour.shabow" <seymour...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fc9c27c$0$24385$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org...
centered in the spoon. There should be enough play in the screws that
fasten the switch assembly down to move it slightly in all directions. When
centered, the first movement of the spoon switch when you touch any side of
the skirt will be in the direction of closing the switch.
As for the "kick" of the pop bumpers, there are many things that control
that. Ignoring EMs for now,
1. The coil. Lower resistance (less windings, thicker wire) will provide
more kick.
2. The voltage. For a given coil, higher voltage will provide more kick.
3. Any mechanical binding will interfere with the operation (SS and EM)
4. Software can pulse the coil longer to provide more kick. This should be
constant for a given game.
5. The shape of the spoon itself can effect how fast the switch responds to
movement of the skirt.
- Kerry
Frank Furhter
Jun 2, 2012, 7:38:52 AM6/2/12
to
> 2. The voltage. For a given coil, higher voltage will provide more kick.
> 3. Any mechanical binding will interfere with the operation (SS and EM)
> 4. Software can pulse the coil longer to provide more kick. This should be
> constant for a given game.
> 5. The shape of the spoon itself can effect how fast the switch responds to
> movement of the skirt.
> - Kerry
G
Jun 2, 2012, 9:04:11 AM6/2/12
to
Thanks Scott, Kerry and Frank for the tips. Raining hard here today in
NH. Looks like its going to be a pin day. :)
NH. Looks like its going to be a pin day. :)
Gott Lieb?
Jun 2, 2012, 10:27:28 AM6/2/12
to
OK, I'll take the bait. First of all, Bally Bumper did not use "pop",
"jet", or "thumper" bumpers (pick your name dependent on manufacturer),
which is what the OP is referring to. Secondly, read the notes under
the Bally Bumper entry:
"Contrary to widespread belief, 'Bumper' was not the first pinball
machine to have bumpers. Bally copied the idea from Pacent Novelty's
1936 'Bolo', a game that came out several months earlier. Bally did
change the bumper design enough to obtain a patent on it."
So, as usual, Todd, you're wrong.
Jim
Frank Furhter.;1949393 Wrote:
> Terry Cumming wrote:
> wrote:
> >> "Pinsgonewild"<pinplay... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> news:36adc023-5bdb-4a05-9978-c3369097a275 (AT)
> f14g2000yqe.googlegroups (DOT) com...
> >>
> >>> So who is credited with the modern day pop bumper invention? Not
> the
> >>> early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
> >>> the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
> >>
> >> Good question. Harry Williams designed the first game that used
> them,
> >> Saratoga in 1948 (according to IPDB).
> >> Harry is responsible for a lot of pinball inventions, so he very
> likely
> >> invented the pop bumper. Wayne Neyens has the patent on the pop
> bumper
> >> spoon switch though, and that was in 1948 also.
> >>
> >> - Kerry
> >
> > Stoner's Zeta in 1938 was the first game with an active pop bumper,
> > invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
> > metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
>
> What-cha-smokin' Willis?
> http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=405
--
> >>> So who is credited with the modern day pop bumper invention? Not
> the
> >>> early ones that just scored points when hit but the pops that skirt
> >>> the ball away when hit? What was the first game to use them?
> >>
> >> Good question. Harry Williams designed the first game that used
> them,
> >> Saratoga in 1948 (according to IPDB).
> >> Harry is responsible for a lot of pinball inventions, so he very
> likely
> >> invented the pop bumper. Wayne Neyens has the patent on the pop
> bumper
> >> spoon switch though, and that was in 1948 also.
> >>
> >> - Kerry
> >
> > Stoner's Zeta in 1938 was the first game with an active pop bumper,
> > invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
> > metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
>
> What-cha-smokin' Willis?
> http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=405
Gott Lieb?
Frank Furhter
Jun 2, 2012, 2:08:17 PM6/2/12
to
Fish is on!
Gott Lieb?
Jun 2, 2012, 2:48:39 PM6/2/12
to
Methinks the word "pop" trumps the word "active" in Terry's statement.
Even if it didn't, the discussion has revolved around pop bumpers, not
active bumpers.
I agree that the argument is moot. I should know better than to take
the bait, and debate with such a mental giant. I apologize, and it will
never happen again.
Have a great day!
Jim
Frank Furhter.;1949971 Wrote:
> Gott Lieb? wrote:
> > OK, I'll take the bait. First of all, Bally Bumper did not use
> "pop",
> > "jet", or "thumper" bumpers (pick your name dependent on
> manufacturer),
> > which is what the OP is referring to. Secondly, read the notes under
> > the Bally Bumper entry:
> >
> > "Contrary to widespread belief, 'Bumper' was not the first pinball
> > machine to have bumpers. Bally copied the idea from Pacent Novelty's
> > 1936 'Bolo', a game that came out several months earlier. Bally did
> > change the bumper design enough to obtain a patent on it."
> >
> > So, as usual, Todd, you're wrong.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >> Terry Cumming wrote:[color=7:08 PM 10/21/2009]
> >>> Stoner's Zeta in 1938 was the first game with an active pop bumper,
> >>> invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
> >>> metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
>
> >>> invented by Wendel Bartelt, although it worked by compressing thin
> >>> metal pieces that would bulge out in the middle.
>
> An idiot would *not* catch the word 'active' and argue the point moot.
> Fish is on!
> Fish is on!
frenchy
Jun 2, 2012, 4:00:33 PM6/2/12
to
On Jun 1, 5:33 am, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com> wrote:
> I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from underneath> the playfield. I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the Gottlieb ones,> but I haven't heard of many complaints.>
I may be wrong on some of this, all from my fading memory, but...
> I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from underneath> the playfield. I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the Gottlieb ones,> but I haven't heard of many complaints.>
There were also those modular pops that Wico put in the few pins they
made. I remember from their catalog that they did modular kicker
holes too, maybe some other mechs. The pops weren't the same ones
that Bally used were they? Not sure how much of the Wico ones were
included in that unit, like the spoon switch.
G
Jun 2, 2012, 4:08:34 PM6/2/12
to
On Jun 2, 4:00 pm, frenchy <mf101...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 5:33 am, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from underneath> the playfield. I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the Gottlieb ones,> but I haven't heard of many complaints.>
>
> I may be wrong on some of this, all from my fading memory, but...
>
> There were also those modular pops that Wico put in the few pins they
> made. I remember from their catalog that they did modular kicker
> holes too, maybe some other mechs. The pops weren't the same ones
> that Bally used were they?
Are you referencing the pops that are in games like Fireball Classic?
> On Jun 1, 5:33 am, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from underneath> the playfield. I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the Gottlieb ones,> but I haven't heard of many complaints.>
>
> I may be wrong on some of this, all from my fading memory, but...
>
> There were also those modular pops that Wico put in the few pins they
> made. I remember from their catalog that they did modular kicker
> holes too, maybe some other mechs. The pops weren't the same ones
> that Bally used were they?
They are somewhat different than the pops from Xenon?
Gott Lieb?
Jun 2, 2012, 4:16:45 PM6/2/12
to
Yep, Wico made them, and classic Sterns used them around F2K. Then, DE
used a similar modular design later.
Jim
frenchmarky;1950005 Wrote:
> On Jun 1, 5:33*am, "Kerry Imming" <kcimm... (AT) pobox (DOT) com>
> wrote:
> > I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from
> underneath> the playfield. *I'm not sure if they were as reliable as the
> > I guess that's why Bally went to the pop bumper that mounts from
> Gottlieb ones,> but I haven't heard of many complaints.>
>
> I may be wrong on some of this, all from my fading memory, but...
>
> There were also those modular pops that Wico put in the few pins they
> made. I remember from their catalog that they did modular kicker
> holes too, maybe some other mechs. The pops weren't the same ones
> that Bally used were they? Not sure how much of the Wico ones were
> included in that unit, like the spoon switch.
--
>
> I may be wrong on some of this, all from my fading memory, but...
>
> There were also those modular pops that Wico put in the few pins they
> made. I remember from their catalog that they did modular kicker
> holes too, maybe some other mechs. The pops weren't the same ones
> that Bally used were they? Not sure how much of the Wico ones were
> included in that unit, like the spoon switch.
Gott Lieb?
frenchy
Jun 2, 2012, 4:26:15 PM6/2/12
to
> Yep, Wico made them, and classic Sterns used them around F2K. Then, DE> used a similar modular design later.
> > Jim>>
Hah I was about to go check my Lightning and see if it used them, then
> > Jim>>
remembered it doesn't have any. : )
Frank Furhter
Jun 2, 2012, 5:02:41 PM6/2/12
to
Gott Lieb? wrote:
> Methinks the word "pop" trumps the word "active" in Terry's statement.
> Even if it didn't, the discussion has revolved around pop bumpers, not
> active bumpers.
>
> I agree that the argument is moot. I should know better than to take
> the bait, and debate with such a mental giant. I apologize, and it will
> never happen again.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Jim
Its OK to be below or just below average. :)
> Methinks the word "pop" trumps the word "active" in Terry's statement.
> Even if it didn't, the discussion has revolved around pop bumpers, not
> active bumpers.
>
> I agree that the argument is moot. I should know better than to take
> the bait, and debate with such a mental giant. I apologize, and it will
> never happen again.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Jim
>
> Frank Furhter.;1949971 Wrote:
>> Gott Lieb? wrote:
>>> OK, I'll take the bait. First of all, Bally Bumper did not use
>> "pop",
>>> "jet", or "thumper" bumpers (pick your name dependent on
>> manufacturer),
>>> which is what the OP is referring to. Secondly, read the notes under
>>> the Bally Bumper entry:
>>>
>>> "Contrary to widespread belief, 'Bumper' was not the first pinball
>>> machine to have bumpers. Bally copied the idea from Pacent Novelty's
>>> 1936 'Bolo', a game that came out several months earlier. Bally did
>>> change the bumper design enough to obtain a patent on it."
>>>
frenchy
Jun 2, 2012, 5:31:29 PM6/2/12
to
<< Ignoring EMs for now>
> - Kerry>>
I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
> - Kerry>>
I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
Kerry Imming
Jun 3, 2012, 11:00:07 AM6/3/12
to
news:4972e5ea-4124-4151...@l5g2000pbo.googlegroups.com...
I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make sure
that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on the
pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch directly
energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a relay,
so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
sling.
What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent in
the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
- Kerry
<< Ignoring EMs for now>
> - Kerry>>
> I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
:-) Well then... since you asked.
> - Kerry>>
> I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make sure
that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on the
pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch directly
energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a relay,
so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
sling.
What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent in
the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
- Kerry
Frank Furhter
Jun 3, 2012, 11:17:11 AM6/3/12
to
from 2.8 ohm down to 2.2/.3 and you will be loving life with snappy
too-fast-for-era action on an old EM. Make sure to put down some mylar
or your under pop PF will quickly go away particularly if you don't
clean, heat gun with Johnsons, and put down regular waxing.
Now on to pop bumper relays...
1/3rd from the top, dead center, to the right is the pop bumper relay.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2502&picno=11528
'69 Gott. Target Pool, not 1970s at all.
Gott Lieb?
Jun 3, 2012, 11:52:54 AM6/3/12
to
Ah, but OXO has DC pop coils, IIRC. GTB didn't start using DC coils
until Cleo. There is really no comparison between AC and DC pops. DC
pops are so much more livelier.
Jim
kcimming;1950360 Wrote:
> "frenchy" <mf101723 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote in message
> news:4972e5ea-4124-4151-9f43-5297fb6cb9b7 (AT) l5g2000pbo.googlegroups
> (DOT) com...
> << Ignoring EMs for now>
> > - Kerry>>
>
> > I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
>
> :-) Well then... since you asked.
>
> I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make
> sure
> that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on
> the
> pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch
> directly
> energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a
> relay,
> so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
>
> sling.
>
> What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
>
> action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent
> in
> the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
>
> - Kerry
> > - Kerry>>
>
> > I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
>
> :-) Well then... since you asked.
>
> I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make
> sure
> that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on
> the
> pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch
> directly
> energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a
> relay,
> so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
>
> sling.
>
> What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
>
> action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent
> in
> the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
>
> - Kerry
Gott Lieb?
Jun 3, 2012, 11:56:04 AM6/3/12
to
Oh, and GTB pop relays go the whole way back to the 50's, if not
earlier. The 1954 Score-Board I had used pop relays.
Jim
kcimming;1950360 Wrote:
> "frenchy" <mf101723 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote in message
> news:4972e5ea-4124-4151-9f43-5297fb6cb9b7 (AT) l5g2000pbo.googlegroups
> (DOT) com...
> << Ignoring EMs for now>
> > - Kerry>>
>
> > I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
>
> :-) Well then... since you asked.
>
> I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make
> sure
> that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on
> the
> pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch
> directly
> energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a
> relay,
> so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
>
> sling.
>
> What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
>
> action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent
> in
> the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
>
> - Kerry
> > - Kerry>>
>
> > I am deeply offended. As Jack Benny would say, "WwwwELL !" ; )
>
> :-) Well then... since you asked.
>
> I'm not sure when they started, but 70s Gottliebs used a relay to make
> sure
> that any small switch closure on the pop bumper created a full stroke on
> the
> pop bumper. Bally and Williams games didn't do this, the switch
> directly
> energized the pop bumper. As far as I know, sling shots never used a
> relay,
> so the kicker action would be proportional to how hard the ball hit the
>
> sling.
>
> What's funny is that my Williams OXO "seems" to have livelier pop bumper
>
> action than my Gottlieb Spirit of 76. I don't know if this is inherent
> in
> the design, or just clean/adjust differences.
>
> - Kerry
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