Do you prefer to crimp, or solder your Molex connectors?

[m6onz5a]

I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.

I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
double check the wire. Move on to the next wire

I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
from trying to crimp them too hard. I went through a good 5 or 6
connectors before I said F&#* IT!! (I only bought 100 of them for 2
conncectors) LOL

I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
off.

I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
without ANY fuss.

Chas

[arcaderehab]

Crimp. I can crimp wires with my eyes closed and get a perfect crimp
every time. Practice and a high quality crimper are all you need.

[CornCob]

Make sure you have the correct crimp tool/head insert for the
connector/crimp pin. When I don't, often the little prongs which hold
it into the plastic shell get folded over. I only solder as a last
resort, normally when I don't have the right crimp tool or crimp pin
and even then I consider it a temporary fix - It's like looking at a
painted wall, your wife says it looks fine but you know the bit around
the wall socket isn't perfect!

Ping

[Ron - NY]

I have tried many crimpers,cheap and expensive ones. I have found a great
crimper made by Paladin ( model 1645 ) that does a great job of crimping the
.100 , .156 , .093, & .062 pins, no need to have 4 separate tools. They
crimp so easy and tight you can do chin ups off the crimps. Almost makes you
want to find a burnt plug !
Ron

"m6onz5a" <cor...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:117362d9-478c-47f0...@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

[Ron - NY]

oh yah , they cost about $125
"Ron - NY" <rons...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:47bc1fbc$0$25044$607e...@cv.net...

[Steve Kulpa]

Crimp! Get some decent crimpers and the job will be easy enough as to
not discourge you from doing the job properly.

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces

[seymour-shabow]

Do you have the correct crimper? It takes a bit of practice even with
the correct one. If you are just soldering and not crimping, you have
no good mechanical connection between the wire and the connector which
is essential to a good electrical connection - do not ever depend on
solder to bridge the connection successfully forever.

I have crimped a connector and then added some solder to seal it up, but
that's rare I would break out the solder for that - some very high
stress connections maybe but not on a regular basis.

-scott CARGPB#29

[heckheck]

On Feb 20, 7:14 am, m6onz5a <corv...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> without ANY fuss.
>
> Chas

Good thought, however it's dead wrong.

As someone who's worked in the electronics industry for many years, I
can tell you that I've had this conversation with many very
knowledgeable hardware engineers who really know their stuff. The
simple reason why you want to crimp instead of solder is that a
crimped connection offers many times the strain relief of a soldered
connection. The soldered connection is rigid and will over time crack
and cause a fault (especially in a pinball machine with LOTS of
vibration). This is the reason why all avionic systems employ crimped
connections (airplanes shake too, and it's REAL BAD when a connection
fails there). A properly performed crimp is air tight, virtually gas
free and will not corrode or fail. Ever wonder why crimp connectors
cost so much and good crimping tools cost a small fortune. Well
that's the reason. It takes a precision tool and connector to make a
good crimp.

So crimp your connections. It's the RIGHT way.

h_h

[5voltsr...@gmail.com]

Definately crimp them.

[badta]

On Feb 20, 8:19 am, "5voltsrequi...@gmail.com"

> Definately crimp them.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I keep a razor blade close by and bend those little fins on the pins/
sockets way out so they grab good on the first try, too...........

Don

[m6onz5a]

So, since I've soldered one connector, is it ok to leave it that way
for the time being? Hell, their are solder connections all over
pinball machines.

Is it really that bad to leave them soldered instead of crimped or is
it ok for now?

Chas

[mnpinball]

I crimp them, then heat them to put a touch of solder on them.
It bullet-proofs the repair. No chance of them wiggling out over time.
(a loose crimp can cause heat and poor connection).

I guess I feel it's the best repair since I have learned repairing
vehichles the last 15+ years.
Those scotch locks on cars are just s**t. I have seen some horrible
repairs by do-it-yourselfers. I always solder.
(I know the weather and conditions on a vehicle are different, but all
the same to me)

Jason.

[mikeo]

I crimp only using quality Molex crimpers.

As for your current repair, it will hold up until it fails. You could
go a long time before it gives you any problems. But don't expect to
put any tension on the wires removing the connector.

Mike O.
Team-EM

> Chas- Hide quoted text -

[Ratsputin]

On Feb 20, 6:47 am, "Ron - NY" <ronsc...@optonline.net> wrote:
> oh yah , they cost about $125

> "Ron - NY" <ronsc...@optonline.net> wrote in messagenews:47bc1fbc$0$25044$607e...@cv.net...

>
>
>
> >I have tried many crimpers,cheap and expensive ones. I have found a great
> >crimper made by Paladin ( model 1645 ) that does a great job of crimping
> >the .100 , .156 , .093, & .062 pins, no need to have 4 separate tools. They
> >crimp so easy and tight you can do chin ups off the crimps. Almost makes
> >you want to find a burnt plug !
> > Ron
>

> > "m6onz5a" <corv...@comcast.net> wrote in message

> >news:117362d9-478c-47f0...@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >>I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> >> the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> >> I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> >> crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> >> install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> >> double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> >> I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> >> doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> >> from trying to crimp them too hard.  I went through a good 5 or 6
> >> connectors before I said F&#* IT!!  (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> >> conncectors) LOL
>
> >> I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> >> a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> >> off.
>
> >> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> >> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> >> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> >> without ANY fuss.
>

> >> Chas- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep. Get the production Molex crimping tool. It holds onto the
connector and makes a perfect, foolproof crimp every time. No fuss,
no muss, no thought.

Oh, and you're broke afterward. I was lucky and found one for $125
off of eBay.

Brett

[m6onz5a]

> Brett- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Wow $125?? I guess I'm going to have to wait to get the proper
crimper.

Thanks people!
Chas

[kjohn]

I crimp them too. But sometimes I also flow some solder on them as
well. Usually just the .156 size. Crimping is like soldering in that
its something you get good at by experience and having the right
tools....

kj

[classicgameswi]

The crimper Ed sells at GPE is great!!! I have both the Molex one and
the one that Ed sells, and they both are very good, the only negative
on Ed's is that you have to make the insulation crimp seperate from
the conductor crimp but for the lower price it is fine, I keep my GPE
one in my service bag so I don't have my expensive Molex one on the
road. The product id on his site is Product ID: 1028-CT his web
address is www.greatplainselectronics.com

[heckheck]

> Is it really that bad to leave them soldered instead of crimped or is
> it ok for now?
>
> Chas

I'm sure it will be fine to leave them the way they are now. But
crimp in the future, now that you know why solder is not the right
tool (for a cable which will be pulled and tugged it is really just
not going to hold up). As my hardware engineer friends are fond of
telling me when I describe my pinball repairs, solder is just
"conductive waterproofing", it is really not designed to make any kind
of mechanical bond, or to take any stress or strain.

h_h

[heckheck]

Yeah, that's the one I use too. It works well. Remember don't over
crimp either! I've mashed a few myself.

h_h

[cal50]

Both.

Crimp and a dab of solder.
Maybe overkill but it guarantees a low resistance mechanically strong
connection. If I had hundreds of connectors to do it would be
different but for the limited numbers involved in a pinball machine I
still solder.

[Gott Lieb?]

If a crimp is done properly, solder should not be needed at all. In
fact, soldering will make the connection technically worse. What part
of the crimp connection will be mechanically fastened to the insulation
of the wire for strain relief? Even if you were to solder after a
crimp, the heat will melt the insulation on the wire, and there won't be
a good mechanical connection to the insulation anymore.

It's best to find a crimp tool specifically made for the job. I've been
using the inexpensive version made by Sargent Tools for many years now,
and haven't had problems. GPE offers the same unit for $25 -
http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=36.

Jim
CARGPB35

[Steve Kulpa]

Well, you still have to strip the wire (right?), so there is a chance
to mess it up. :-)
On the other hand, I would love to have one that does both crimps at
once. I have the cheap-o Molex/Waldon crimpers, which work great, but
I have to do each crimp separate. I build a lot of connector
harnesses and I'm sure I'm heading to a carpal tunnel issue down the
road.

Someday I'll get a dual-action crimper and then I'll be in crimper-
heaven.

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces

[heckheck]

Just to beat a dead horse, the reason soldering after crimping is bad,
is that it "glues" the strands of the wire together below the crimped
area. This is bad because a wire is supposed to have strain relief
(especially if it will be removed and replaced). If the strands of
the wire can't move relative to one another, they will fracture
instead and the failure will come not in the crimp, but in the
soldered wire just below the crimp. A good crimp is basically a solid
metal connection and needs no additional wetting with solder for
longevity of conduction.

h_h

[Steve Kulpa]

Oh, and I forgot to add this: Another bad thing about soldering is
you can not get any solder near the contact since it has to be free
moving. Given the way solder flows on those tin-plated contacts,
that's always a concern. Plus the flux - you really don't want to get
any of the solder's flux down there either.

If it'll make you feel better, when I first started out before I had
any of the proper tools, I used to squeeze them on w/ needle nosed
pliers, then solder them too. Then Clay virtually kicked my ass, I
bought the proper tool, and I learned the proper way to install them.

[Captain Neo]

I use the crimpers on pinrestore.com and they are absolutely awesome.
I've never had a bad crimp. Awesome tool and reasonable.

[kirb]

On Feb 20, 7:14 am, m6onz5a <corv...@comcast.net> wrote:

You need a good molex crimper and the skills to make a proper crimp.
It's not hard, but you have to take your time.

A good crimp is stronger than the wire.

Kirb

[PT]

h_h,

Thanks for beating this dead horse. I just wanted to add that I've
been to a factory authorized molex training class. They told us
multiple times during the training to NEVER solder a crimp. A good
crimp is damaged by the addition of solder. This applies to all crimp
style connections, not just Molex. At the end of the training the
teacher (half jokingly) made us hold up our hands and repeat after
him: "I will never solder a crimp connection!"

If you feel the need to solder a crimp then you are not using the
right tools. The crimp joint on an 18AWG wire should be able to
withstand a minimum of 20 pounds of pull force without coming free or
severing the wire. Check the chart at the bottom of this page.

http://www.molex.com/product/apptool/cspec.html

John

P.S. Yes, I am aware that NASA just fixed some connectors before this
latest Shuttle mission by soldering the pins. That was a special case
inside of the cryogenic fuel tank and certainly doesn't apply to
pinball machines!

[RonKZ650]

As previously mentioned you don't want to solder. The wires are
"stranded tinned copper" meaning the individual wound wires already
have solder on them. When you heat the wires to solder them to the
connector, heat travels up the wire effectively giving you a solid
wire up to and beyond the insulation crimp area of the connector, then
vibration over time sets in and you get broken wires at the crimp.

[mega...@hotmail.com]

soldering after crimping is a bad idea, when you flex the wires the
edge of the solder acts like a sharp edge against the wire. for
example take some 18 or 20 awg wire and strip some insulation off of
it, then solder about 1/4 inch of it, now flex the wire back and forth
and see whats happening. do that long enough and it will break at the
edge of the solder.
your problem may be the connectors (the little metal peices that you
crimp on the wire- not sure of the proper name) i bought some and had
a very tough time with crimping, after alot of trouble and scratching
my head i discovered the pins where of poor quality made, the little
tab that keeps them from coming back out of the white molex housing
were too far to one side, i compared them to some i just got in from
great plains and they where made alot better, the tab was centered up
perfectly. i can't remember who i ordered them from but this is
something i check out now everytime i order new pins.
i also crimp with the high dollar double crimp tool, at $125 it is
worth every penny. now if they made a tool that would auto-strip at
the right length.
-chris-

[Sir Tiltsalot]

On Feb 20, 5:14 am, m6onz5a <corv...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> from trying to crimp them too hard.  I went through a good 5 or 6
> connectors before I said F&#* IT!!  (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> conncectors) LOL
>
> I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> off.
>
> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> without ANY fuss.
>
> Chas

I only crimp and never solder. I worked as an A&P (Aircraft, Airframe
and Powerplant Mechanic) at Continental for eight years. We were only
allowed to crimp in most applications. This was specified by Boeing.
You learned quick how to make a good crimp, or it wouldn't pass
inspection. Get a good crimper, and practice. I hold the Molex pin
lightly in the crimping tool and slide the wire in just the right
distance, then make the crimp. After hundreds of them, I'm getting
good at it. You also don't want to heat the molex pin as it has a
spring temper for good contact against the header pin. You could mess
up the temper. John

[seymour-shabow]

mega...@hotmail.com wrote:
> i also crimp with the high dollar double crimp tool, at $125 it is
> worth every penny. now if they made a tool that would auto-strip at
> the right length.

They do -
http://www.schleuniger-na.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-6916/

This is just one of many from a cursory google search :)

I'd love to have all these toys!! It might awkward to hold one of these
at the correct angle to strip though.....

I'd bet they make a hand held unit with a stop so you can get consistent
strips......

-scott CARGPB#29

[David Gersic]

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:14:56 -0800 (PST), m6onz5a <cor...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> without ANY fuss.

Get the right tools (sounds like you have a crappy crimper) and use them
correctly. The pins are designed to be crimped, not soldered.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Macintosh: Machine Always Crashes; If Not, The OS Hangs! |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |

[Dallas Overturf]

You are probably using a cheap set of crimpers; would be my guess. The
"correct" set has a ratchet like action such that
once you start the crimp you can't abort it.

I've always used cheap crimpers (Good needle nose pliers) on pinball and
followed that up with a small touch of solder. No problems to date!

If you look around I've seen info on why soldering is bad from the
manufacturers. But... It worked fine for me over many years and on
location in the 80's
Oh and the right tool in the 80's used to cost an arm and a leg and these
were made by the manufacturer of the pins as I recall.

Most of the stuff I've seen listed on here is the cheap stuff available at
your local electrical/electronics shop.
--
Home Page: www.geocities.com/d_overturf/index.html
Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address
dallas.ove...@verizon.net
REMOVE NOSPAM from the reply address.

----------

"m6onz5a" <cor...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:117362d9-478c-47f0...@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

>I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> from trying to crimp them too hard. I went through a good 5 or 6
> connectors before I said F&#* IT!! (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> conncectors) LOL
>
> I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> off.
>

> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> without ANY fuss.
>

> Chas

[greatw...@hotmail.com]

On Feb 20, 3:46 pm, "Dallas Overturf" <dallas.overt...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> You are probably using a cheap set of crimpers; would be my guess.  The
> "correct" set has a ratchet like action such that
> once you start the crimp you can't abort it.
>
> I've always used cheap crimpers (Good needle nose pliers) on pinball and
> followed that up with a small touch of solder. No problems to date!
>
> If you look around I've seen info on why soldering is bad from the
> manufacturers.   But... It worked fine for me over many years and on
> location in the 80's
> Oh and the right tool in the 80's used to cost  an arm and a leg and these
> were made by the manufacturer of the pins as I recall.
>
> Most of the stuff I've seen listed on here is the cheap stuff available at
> your local electrical/electronics shop.
> --
> Home Page:  www.geocities.com/d_overturf/index.html
> Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address

> dallas.overturfNOS...@verizon.net

> REMOVE NOSPAM from the reply address.
>
> ----------
>

> "m6onz5a" <corv...@comcast.net> wrote in message

>
> news:117362d9-478c-47f0...@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> > the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> > I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> > crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> > install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> > double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> > I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> > doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> > from trying to crimp them too hard.  I went through a good 5 or 6
> > connectors before I said F&#* IT!!  (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> > conncectors) LOL
>
> > I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> > a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> > off.
>
> > I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> > easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> > crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> > without ANY fuss.
>

> > Chas- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Molex crimper for me & no solder.

[PinAffliction]

Here is a great one hand stripper with adjustable stop as requested.
http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/11062.html
The blue handled one at $35 is fine. You can get different blade sets
for various ranges of wire gauge at bottom of the page.
Radio Shack sells a Kronus version, but does not mention the stop,
which is just a clear plastic with a thumbscrew you position on a
standoff to limit how far the wire protrudes through the stripper
blades. You can see it in pictures at link.
We used these commercially back in my mainframe manufacturing days, a
good operator could strip between 10 and 20 wires a minute depending
on gauge and length of strip. Very repeatable.

Scott

[rudy1094]

You're scaring this crimping newbie. I just ordered a crimper and
some connectors from www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com last week. From
the prices I've seen on this website I see my crimper must be pretty
cheap. I also bought one of those insulation displacement connectors
in case I decide crimping is too troubling. Maybe I'll be going the
insulation displacement connector route.

[GPE]

"Ratsputin" <brett...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fcc6440-88d1-4e80...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

I gotta agree -- the tools make all the difference in the world.
But -- $125 for the Molex production tool is pretty steep.
You can find them lower priced here:
http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=53

These tools are actually made by Sargent tools -- they put the Molex name on
them for an additional $30 each.

-- Ed

[greenacarina]

I will second that! I bought el-cheapo from a "different supplier" (probably
shouldn't name names) and it was pure crap. The one that Ed has works
perfectly every time!
Chris

"classicgameswi" <classic...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b95dda8f-c5bf-4951...@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[John Robertson]

m6onz5a wrote:
> I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> from trying to crimp them too hard. I went through a good 5 or 6
> connectors before I said F&#* IT!! (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> conncectors) LOL
>
> I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> off.
>
> I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> without ANY fuss.
>
> Chas

Do a search for BCT-1 crimper on the B&C Specialty Products web site.
Best inexpensive crimper I've found so far.

Easy to use!

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Chad Tower]

I like the HT-1919, especially for the cost.

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp?nobox=&scat=&stext=crimper&stype=&sprice=&pg=2

[GPE]

"John Robertson" <sp...@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:mkivj.39305$w57.10874@edtnps90...

The BCT-1's are actually made by Sargent -- it's their 1028-CT crimper.

-- Ed

[m6onz5a]

I just got my sargent crimper and did my first crimp job after
practicing about 10 times. I do have to say I like how nice they
turned out.. Now I can change my game settings since it now works :)
Oh, got it for $89 too.

Chas

On Feb 20, 2:46 pm, "Dallas Overturf" <dallas.overt...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> You are probably using a cheap set of crimpers; would be my guess.  The
> "correct" set has a ratchet like action such that
> once you start the crimp you can't abort it.
>
> I've always used cheap crimpers (Good needle nose pliers) on pinball and
> followed that up with a small touch of solder. No problems to date!
>
> If you look around I've seen info on why soldering is bad from the
> manufacturers.   But... It worked fine for me over many years and on
> location in the 80's
> Oh and the right tool in the 80's used to cost  an arm and a leg and these
> were made by the manufacturer of the pins as I recall.
>
> Most of the stuff I've seen listed on here is the cheap stuff available at
> your local electrical/electronics shop.
> --
> Home Page:  www.geocities.com/d_overturf/index.html
> Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address

> dallas.overturfNOS...@verizon.net

> REMOVE NOSPAM from the reply address.
>
> ----------
>

> "m6onz5a" <corv...@comcast.net> wrote in message

>
> news:117362d9-478c-47f0...@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I started tackling my Strikes and Spares solenoid problem by replacing
> > the J4 connectors for the MPU, and the solenoid driver board.
>
> > I got all of my crimping tools together and started to go to work. I'd
> > crimp a wire, give it a little tug to make sure it won't fall out,
> > install the wire into the molex plug, give one final minor tug to
> > double check the wire. Move on to the next wire
>
> > I'd start on the second wire doing the same steps. WTF! Now the wire
> > doesn't want to stay when I crimp it, and I keep boogering up the pins
> > from trying to crimp them too hard.  I went through a good 5 or 6
> > connectors before I said F&#* IT!!  (I only bought 100 of them for 2
> > conncectors) LOL
>
> > I went for my soldering iron. Boy this sped things right up. Just put
> > a drop of solder where the wire lays, and these wires aren't coming
> > off.
>
> > I'm now convinced soldering is the way to go. It was sooooo much
> > easier, and I didn't have to worry about messing up the pins from over
> > crimping. And the pin snapped ever so easily into the connector
> > without ANY fuss.
>

[Steve Kulpa]

Good news! Is it the type that does both the wire and insulation
crimp with one squeeze?
I want to get one of those. I have a single crimper, which works
nice, but when I do a lot of crimping, it sure would be nice to have a
dual-action type.

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces

[m6onz5a]

On Feb 27, 4:26 pm, Steve Kulpa <steveku...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good news!  Is it the type that does both the wire and insulation
> crimp with one squeeze?
> I want to get one of those.  I have a single crimper, which works
> nice, but when I do a lot of crimping, it sure would be nice to have a
> dual-action type.
>
> steve
> ---
> Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)

> Hermitage, TNhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm- Pinballhttp://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces

>
> On Feb 27, 3:22 pm,m6onz5a<corv...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I just got my sargent crimper and did my first crimp job after
> > practicing about 10 times.  I do have to say I like how nice they
> > turned out..  Now I can change my game settings since it now works :)
> > Oh, got it for $89 too.
>

> > Chas- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No.. It's the two step crimper clicker type. Still works great. Now I
need to get motivated and redo the ones I soldered. :)

Chas

[Steve Kulpa]

I use the yellow handled ones like Big Daddy sells, and I like them
very much (I do a lot of crimping). I can crimp .100" and .156" pins
perfectly, and for all wire sizes. It does a decent job on the .062"
and .093" molex pins too.

My only beef is that the grip slips lightly on each squeeze, so after
5 or 6 crimps, I have to slide the grip back down. My needle nosed
pliers do that too.

p.s. ditch that IDC crap!

steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Hermitage, TN

http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://www.geocities.com/stevekulpa/pinball.htm - Pinball

On Feb 20, 8:48 pm, rudy1094 <rudy1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You're scaring this crimping newbie. I just ordered a crimper and

> some connectors from www.bigdaddy-enterprises.comlast week. From

[PinAffliction]

So Ed,
I gotta wonder how much those crimper sales jumped since this thread
started, including my order :))

Scott

On Feb 20, 8:52 pm, "GPE" <GPE_NoS...@Cox.net> wrote:
> "Ratsputin" <brett.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> -- Ed- Hide quoted text -

[Dallas Overturf]

Congrats! Glad you liked them. If I was Betting... There are many on this
board that have never used a really good criimper.
My knowledge of them and how good they are was simply because I used to
repair Mini-computers and Networking equiptment.

I'm too cheap to spend $89 for good crimpers; I'd only use them a couple
times a year on my own or friends games.
The really good ones crimp the insulation down as well. Sounds like you've
got good crimpers, just not top end; and that's still easier than soldering!

But if you are doing a lot of crimping, the right tool is definitely worth
the $89 you paid just in time saved.

Enjoy,
Dallas...

--
Home Page: www.geocities.com/d_overturf/index.html
Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address

dallas.ove...@verizon.net

REMOVE NOSPAM from the reply address.

----------

"m6onz5a" <cor...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:daec171e-3a9a-4653...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

[m6onz5a]

On Feb 27, 11:05 pm, "Dallas Overturf" <dallas.overt...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Congrats!  Glad you liked them.  If I was Betting...  There are many on this
> board that have never used a really good criimper.
> My knowledge of them and how good they are was simply because I used to
> repair Mini-computers and Networking equiptment.
>
> I'm too cheap to spend $89 for good crimpers; I'd only use them a couple
> times a year on my own or friends games.
> The really good ones crimp the insulation down as well.  Sounds like you've
> got good crimpers, just not top end; and that's still easier than soldering!
>
> But if you are doing a lot of crimping, the right tool is definitely worth
> the $89 you paid just in time saved.
>
>                                                                          Enjoy,
> Dallas...
>
> --
> Home Page:  www.geocities.com/d_overturf/index.html
> Newsgroups to reply to me me via email, please fix the email address

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Here is the link for the ones I purchased.
http://www.datatelephonesupply.com/proddetail.php?prod=3135CT

Chas

[GPE]

"m6onz5a" <cor...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:ca1dab3f-0910-42b0...@41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Damn. they've got me beat by $6...
Oh, well....

-- Ed

[Boiler_81]

This is the correct way. A good mechanical crimp with just a VERY slight
touch of solder applied to the conductor crimp (after crimping) to make
it air tight. I have worked in the automotive wiring industry for 25
years and spent 3 years developing crimp tools for automotive terminals.
The ideal crimp is achieved in a very small tolerance band. There is no
way you can assure a gas tight crimp using hand crimpers alone.

mnpinball wrote:
> I crimp them, then heat them to put a touch of solder on them.
> It bullet-proofs the repair. No chance of them wiggling out over time.
> (a loose crimp can cause heat and poor connection).
>
> I guess I feel it's the best repair since I have learned repairing
> vehichles the last 15+ years.
> Those scotch locks on cars are just s**t. I have seen some horrible
> repairs by do-it-yourselfers. I always solder.
> (I know the weather and conditions on a vehicle are different, but all
> the same to me)
>
> Jason.

[cody chunn]

OH, NO! HERE IT COMES...!!!

:0)

--
-cody
CARGPB4

"Boiler_81" <boile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:etydnTnON-NVDFXa...@comcast.com...

[Boiler_81]

Yep, I have been waiting for Clay to jump on this one.

The fact is a LOT of bad things can happen if you do this incorrectly.
The risk probably outweighs the rewards for most people. Too much solder
can cause the terminal to not lock properly when the inserted into the
connector cavity due to soldered locking tabs. Too much solder will wick
up the wire strands and will go past the insulation grip this defeating
the purpose of the grip which is to provide strain relief.

However, the up side is you get a gas tight crimp. There is just NO way
you are going to do this by hand with any consistency. The tolerance for
a machine crimp on the types of terminals used in pinball machines is in
the range of +/- .002 inches on the crimp height and +/- .003 on the
width. Adding just a very small touch of solder to the conductor crimp
will seal the connection to air.

I saw this demonstrated on a crimp in our lab several years ago. We had
instrumented a crimp which was of poor design for the automotive
environment. I could move the wire from side to side and see the
resistance change as the terminal flexed. The reason for this was the
material thickness was too thin and moving the wire distorted the crimp
area. Adding a touch of solder eliminated the variable resistance and
dropped the value.
where there is

[cody chunn]

Actually, I agree that a drop of solder is a good thing, and have stated in
the past that I think it gives a 100% surface area contact in addition to
being airtight. For a long time I felt solder was necessary because I had
been exposed to many poorly-crimped (from the WMS factory no less!) pins
that would not have failed when they did if only they had been soldered. I
have come to understand that for pinballs, a good crimp is usually all that
is needed and solder is overkill for the vast majority of connectors (GI may
be the exception, IMO).

Anyway, good on you for putting a dissenting opinion out there.

--
-cody
CARGPB4

"Boiler_81" <boile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:pPKdnRhiZqlZOVXa...@comcast.com...

[GPE]

"Boiler_81" <boile...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:etydnTnON-NVDFXa...@comcast.com...

> This is the correct way. A good mechanical crimp with just a VERY slight
> touch of solder applied to the conductor crimp (after crimping) to make it
> air tight. I have worked in the automotive wiring industry for 25 years
> and spent 3 years developing crimp tools for automotive terminals. The
> ideal crimp is achieved in a very small tolerance band. There is no way
> you can assure a gas tight crimp using hand crimpers alone.

Ummm... no.
In the aerospace industry - you would be excommunicated for doing such a
thing.
Having the proper crimpers - you most certainly can and MUST have a gast
tight crimp.

-- Ed

[Boiler_81]

Cool! I have never been excommunicated. I may have deserved to be a time
or two in my life though.

Given a tool designed for a specific wire grip design and wire gage
combination it is possible to get an ideal crimp. The tool would have to
yield a crimp which is within +/- .002 of the ideal. A crimp higher than
this may not be gas tight. Tighter may fracture the strands at the edge
of the conductor crimp.

Given the differing cross sectional areas for each wire gage, a gas
tight crimp can not be achieved utilizing the same crimp height. You can
not use a generic 18-22 gage tool and expect to get consistent perfect
results with a hand crimper.

Having said the above, a perfect crimp is probably not required for
pinball machine applications. Environment plays a big part in the
performance requirement. A pinball machine is a rather benign
environment compared to an automotive application. In a pinball machine
you do not have to deal with salt water, extreme temperature swings,
high frequency vibrations, automotive fluids and large relative movement
between components.

I will continue adding a VERY small quantity of solder to the conductor
crimp after crimping. It can not hurt if done properly.

[PT]

Funny how all of Molex's own documentation call these type of contacts
"solderless". Molex also must be wrong when they call the crimp
joints "gas tight" in about a million places in their documentation.
But what do they know, they're only the manufacturer.

Here is a link to an official NASA termination handbook. We used
something very similar on Air Force rockets. Notice that their are
"solder type" connections and "solderless" connections. Never do the
two cross boundaries!

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87394.pdf

> In the aerospace industry - you would be excommunicated for doing such a
> thing.

We didn't use the word excommunicate, but we would have lost our
crimping Certification on the spot if we turned in ANY crimp joint
with solder on it to the Quality Inspector. After that you wouldn't
have been able to touch any airborne or ground hardware until you
passed through a very painful re-certification process. I can't say
that I ever remember anyone losing their certification this way
though. That's the type of bonehead maneuver that never gets
forgotten and usually inspired a new nickname that stuck with you
forever.

John

[Boiler_81]

I agree that a proper crimp does not require solder. A proper crimp is
usually done in an automatic termination press. In this way the crimp
height can be controlled very precisely. Like I said above getting a
perfect crimp for each wire gage and terminal combination requires that
you crimp it to within +/- .002. The hobbyist is not going to be able to
do that. Take a look at the crimp specifications for crimp height shown
in the table in this URL:
http://www.molex.com/product/apptool/cspec12.html

Those heights are the ideal given the width of the termination tool. If
you change the crimp width you will have to develop a new height.

[GPE]

"PT" <zeec...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56aaeb78-609f-44f3...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> Funny how all of Molex's own documentation call these type of contacts
> "solderless". Molex also must be wrong when they call the crimp
> joints "gas tight" in about a million places in their documentation.
> But what do they know, they're only the manufacturer.
>
> Here is a link to an official NASA termination handbook. We used
> something very similar on Air Force rockets. Notice that their are
> "solder type" connections and "solderless" connections. Never do the
> two cross boundaries!
>
> http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/codeq/doctree/87394.pdf

That's quite similar to what we use in the military world.
But, things such as multiple wires into one contact would never be allowed.

- Ed