Blew Up My Data East Jurassic Park Flipper Board
Scott
I've been toying around with my DE JP and replacing various bits here
and there. Recently the bottom right flipper was acting up so I dug in
without knowing much and determined it at least needed a new coil and
end of throw red plastic piece. Ordered the right parts per the manual
and installed the coil as the old one was (was careful to put the
proper wire to the proper terminal) and powered the puppy on. Smoke,
fire, etc... lots of fun. Looks like I at least killed R4 on the
flipper board. I am no pinball technician, not an electrical
engineer... just a do it all myself kind of guy.
So I was hoping someone would be able to tell me what I did to blow up
R4 (I can't read schematics at all) and what parts I need to replace.
It looks like R3 and D1 are ok but they are a bit black so not sure if
those need to be replaced at all.
I did recently install a new fuse in F2 but I was fairly sure it is
exactly the same as the one that was in there but now that I review
those fuses they do actually seem to be different. So if possible
could I also get an idea of what should be in F1 and F2? I replaced
the one in there because it looked a tiny bit "burnt" and this was
during my evaluation of the flipper issue so the machine has been on
since then, I believe.
Help!
Scott
question and took a pic. Again, no expert, but it looks to me like the
top layer of the board above the fiberglass was melted but the bottom
of the board looks fine. I assume some sort of test with a DMM would
give me the indications of any damage?
Chris Hibler
It's been a while since I looked at a DE flipper board. It looks to be
single sided so you can be relatively certain via visual inspect
whether or not traces on the other side were damaged.
As you examine the failure, there are other components related to the
already failed resistors and diode like Q1, Q2, and Q3 that you should
test.
Lastly, it's probably not a coincidence that this problem occurred
right after you replaced a flipper coil and EOS switch. Recheck your
work. Check to ensure wires to the three lugs are correct relative to
the diodes and EOS switch. Check the orientation of the diodes on the
new coil vs. the old coil. I'll bet you a cup of coffee that something
is/was different.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
Scott
Thanks for the notes. If I am inferring correctly from your statements
the "traces" are the pathways on the board. Yes, they appear to only
be on the bottom and they appear to all be intact. So I hope that
means I can throw in some new resistors and diodes and use this board.
I just don't know which ones I need for the various positions. I
understand how to read a diode and resistor (markings, bands) but not
schematics. Maybe you would take a look at the JP manual and let me
know?
I am sure it was not a coincidence that it occurred after my
replacement, the game was working fine (aside from the dying flipper).
I ordered the coil that is listed in the manual (and it looks exactly
like the coil it is replacing). I took a picture of the coil and
matched up the wires to the proper lugs old v. new. The diode appears
to be in the same orientation.
Hoping someone else here might know a bit more about the solid state
flipper board (coils with this board only have 2 lugs) and be able to
tell me what the diode/resistor I blew controls and that might
indicate what I did wrong? I assume swapping the wires on a coil would
be bad but would this be the result? I really don't want to fix the
board and get it all installed again to have the same thing happen
because it is some other problem I didn't know about. The fuse
situation would be helpful as well, but from my reading it seems that
all the fuses on the flipper board are the same slo-blo fuse?
* F1= 3a slo-blo +50 volt for lower right flipper initial power.
* F2= 3a slo-blo +9 volt for hold power.
* F3= 3a slo-blo +50 volt for lower left flipper initial power.
* F4= 3a slo-blo +9 volt for hold power.
* F5= 3a slo-blo +50 volt for upper right flipper (if game is a 3
flipper game).
Do the +50 or +9 change the fuse type?
Thanks!
stangbat
I'm not a pro with schematics, but in looking over them it appears to me
that these components deal with end of stroke switch and cabinet flipper
switch for the right flipper. So I'd double check how your EOS switch
is set up and compare it to the other side.
I could be wrong, but this is how it appears to me.
--
stangbat
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
Loki9
wiring.
-Jeff Taylor
Scott
Chris, thanks.
Jeff, I'd REALLY appreciate that. It would be the right side coil
connections, end of stroke switch and the left side of the solid state
switch board (lower left side of the cabinet). thank you!!
Loki9
No problem, I'll do it when I get home later today.
-J
Scott
Pics of just the right side coil should be enough. I had a friend read
the schematics and get the resistor and diode values for me and I
soldered them on and having the right coil detached everything seemed
to work ok. So before I solder it back on I'll wait to see what you
come up with in a picture and make sure I put it on correctly. I
looked at the top right flipper and see two orange wires on one lug
(which I assume then comes down to the lower right flipper since it
has the same orange wire). But I'll wait to see yours to confirm.
Hopefully the board isn't dead (led's work) and if I install the coil
correctly I'll be back in business.
Scott
problem. Left the right coil unplugged and replaced the left coil and
EOS switch, no problems. Everything working. Might have had a problem
with the coil sleeve on the right side that caused an issue, guess
that could have blown the resistor. Also noticed that a fuse was blown
and some on the board were not 3amp. Swapped those out as well, all
looks good. Hopefully the pic will show me the correct orientation and
we'll be good!
Scott
confirmed the location of the wires. Went ahead and put the new coil
in and this time the fuse in F1 blew with a nice glow. At least the
board was ok, and I assume the incorrect fuses caused the earlier
issue.
So the fuse in F1 is the initial power for the lower right flipper.
Any thoughts as to why it is blowing?
Loki9
Can't find my camera, but it's pretty simple:
Orange/Purple wire goes to the "outside" lug with non-banded end of
the diode.
Blue/Yellow wire goes to "center" lug with banded side of diode.
Brown wire and Blue/purple wire go to EOS switch.
That's it.
-Jeff
Scott
something is up... I found this post:
Jurassic Park Switch Matrix Problems.
On the game Jurassic Park, one of the main playfield wire harness
trunks can rub against the upper right flipper coil stop. The
vibration of the flipper coil can cause the harness to saw against the
coil stop, shorting the wiring. This can cause random coil firing,
blown fuses, and switch matrix shorts. To fix this, first inspect the
wires for any cuts or shorts. Then resecure the wiring harness with
nylon wire ties. Use the ties to pull the wiring harness away from the
coil stop. This problem was discussed in service bulletin number 53.
View this bulletin by clicking here and here.
http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index3.htm#factory
While I did look in to that issue (hard to see because it's under the
under playfield ramps) but I didn't see any issues. But obviously
there is a short somewhere. If anyone can give me any help with the
switch board F1 blows that would certainly help.
Trevor
ahead and remove those ramps under the playfield so you can get a good
close look at the wiring there. I'd imagine that's where you're going
to find the short. If it helps, take lots of pictures(lots of them!
more than you think you'll need, and from various angles) of the area
you need to disassemble before taking things apart. It's just going
to be a guessing game until you get in there and verify what needs to
be done. Good luck! You'll be flippin' away on this game in just a
matter of time!
Trevor
Scott
ramps and unbundled the wires and I don't see any cut wire insulation.
I'm going to give it a some more review and have my g/f look as well,
she is good at finding stuff I don't see. Thanks!
Scott
or around any of the coils. I will fix the frays and throw a new fuse
in but I have a feeling that isn't it.
Trevor
is started and you push the right flipper button? One of those 3
wires going to the coil is most likely shorted somewhere(I'm thinking
the one that carries the 50v). If you can trace each of those wires
all the way to the flipper board, I would think you would find the
short somewhere along the way. I know this has probably been gone
over again and again, but you're certain the diodes on the coil are
good and oriented properly?
Good luck!
Trevor
Scott
turn on the machine, it does it's diagnostics and then when I go to
enter diagnostics mode and it gets to the point where it gives the
flippers power for testing the fuse blows. I threw the old coil on to
just test, blown fuse. I threw the old left side coil on the right (I
replaced both) and fuse blows.
A few notes.. I read on another site installing a coil backwards could
blow the diode. I suppose this could have happened originally, but one
of the other 2 coils (the original left one) should be good. I hooked
them all up with the orange/purple wire to the unbanded side of the
diode. Confirming with the picture I took before I removed the
original right coil it was infact wired that way, so I have to
conclude the wiring is correct.
The red circled item in the flipper board below had one of the legs
barely soldered on when I pulled the board. It is awful close to the
resistor that blew so I wonder if that piece is messed up or also the
traces to it looked a bit eroded. Any idea what that is?
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/problem.jpg
I guess my next step is either to contact a local pro to help diagnose
or maybe just order a replacement flipper board. If someone knows what
that circled item is I could try and replace it but I have a feeling
the trace is probably bad and that might be the issue?
Trevor
replaced. Do you have experience with a multi-meter? There are some
tests you can do using a meter to determine if the part is bad or
not. Clays guide at pinrepair.com can probably walk you through the
test. You can also use the meter to test the trace on the circuit
board from where it connects to the transistor over to the next point
in the circuit. If the transistor and circuit board trace both check
good, you may want to check the 50v wire from the problem coil. If you
know which wire on the flipper coil carries the 50v, I'd try tracing
wire to its connector where it hooks up to the flipper board and see
if there are any shorts along the way. If no shorts are found, it may
well be a problem on the board. Can you take some close up pics of
the board where the transistor in question is? Pics of the front and
back of where it attaches to the board would be even better. Maybe a
bit of solder is bridging 2 points that should not be connected? Many
possibilities here, just a matter of narrowing them down...
Trevor
Scott
Both lower coils have orange base colored wires and dark colored
wires. The dark are blue/yellow and gray/brown (I believe). I only see
the dark colors going to the flipper control board. I assume those are
the 50v ones and I am hoping the wire color are kept consistent. I
traced as much as I could see and nothing sticks out as a short.
Here are pictures of the board with some notes on them to know what
you are looking at. I read the pinrepair guide for testing a
transistor and from what I could tell using my DMM the transistor is
working ok. Also testing the resistance for the trace seems to point
out that it is making contact ok. (both had the same resistance as
touching the DMM leads together).
While I'm no expert at soldering from looking at the board all seems
to be visually ok.
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/DSC_1081.jpg
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/DSC_1082.jpg
I also ran a continuity test on all the new components and traces and
they all seem ok. I ran a resistance on the new resistors, all look
good. The new diode I'm not sure what it should be reading. The
pinrepair site talks about coil issues and replacing transistors,
etc... again, I'm green so not sure where to start.
Chris Hibler
> Cool, some more details:
>
> Both lower coils have orange base colored wires and dark colored
> wires. The dark are blue/yellow and gray/brown (I believe). I only see
> the dark colors going to the flipper control board. I assume those are
> the 50v ones and I am hoping the wire color are kept consistent. I
> traced as much as I could see and nothing sticks out as a short.
>
> Here are pictures of the board with some notes on them to know what
> you are looking at. I read the pinrepair guide for testing a
> transistor and from what I could tell using my DMM the transistor is
> working ok. Also testing the resistance for the trace seems to point
> out that it is making contact ok. (both had the same resistance as
> touching the DMM leads together).
>
> While I'm no expert at soldering from looking at the board all seems
> to be visually ok.
>
>
> I also ran a continuity test on all the new components and traces and
> they all seem ok. I ran a resistance on the new resistors, all look
> good. The new diode I'm not sure what it should be reading. The
> pinrepair site talks about coil issues and replacing transistors,
> etc... again, I'm green so not sure where to start.
Scott,
I scanned this long thread but didn't read it all.
1. F2 in the pic looks like a 6A fuse. It should be a 3A
2. Q3 is a TIP-36c transistor
3. Don't buy a new flipper board. You haven't figured out what caused
the failure. If the failure is still in the game and you put a new
flipper board in, you'll just fry that board too.
4. The fact remains that this problem coincides with replacement of
the flipper coil. Searching elsewhere is probably chasing your tail.
Could you post a picture of both flipper coils wiring that clearly
shows the wire colors and the diode on the coil?
stangbat
Definitely check that transistor. It is directly in the same path as
the components you have already replaced. Most likely the reason the
other components blew up is because of it being over-fused, but that
transistor could have taken a dive too after the initial problem. It
sounds like you have a multimeter, it should have a diode test mode that
will let you test the transistor. And remember, sometimes they are
still flaky even if they test okay with the meter.
I'm not sure that the transistor is the root of your problems, but it
won't hurt to check.
Scott
flipper was going "bad" originally. So I don't know if a short/bad
component was causing that or if it really was just the coil. So the
root of the flipper issue could be whatever caused the original
failure.
The fuses are ALL 3A slo-blo, I confirmed. I have tested several coils
on that side and all appear to be installed correctly. I did read
elsewhere that an improperly installed coil could kill the diode on
the coil. What is the proper diode test? Also, on my DMM I believe I
have a resistance (ohm) setting and a continunity? test (arrow with a
line through it). Would either of those help me test the transistor
and/or diodes?
Here are pics of the newly installed left coil (which does operate
just fine) and the right one that is now the old left one. Also one
note... the flipper switch does properly trigger the LED's on the
board and does still trigger the upper right coil. So hopefully that
does help narrow it down.
New Left Side Coil Installed & Working Properly
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/left.jpg
Originally Installed Right Coil
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/right_original.jpg
Newly Installed Right Coil (unhooked for testing)
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/right.jpg
Currently Soldered In Right Side Coil (which is the old left side coil
that was working fine)
http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/right_current.jpg
I am happy to unsolder the transistor... I looked up testing
procedures but without knowing what I am doing I'm not sure I
understand the procedures and results. http://www.elexp.com/t_test.htm
I don't know what kind of transistor it is and what pins are which.
Chris Hibler
> Guys, thanks for your comments, appreciate it. Chris, one note... the
> flipper was going "bad" originally. So I don't know if a short/bad
> component was causing that or if it really was just the coil. So the
> root of the flipper issue could be whatever caused the original
> failure.
>
> The fuses are ALL 3A slo-blo, I confirmed. I have tested several coils
> on that side and all appear to be installed correctly. I did read
> elsewhere that an improperly installed coil could kill the diode on
> the coil. What is the proper diode test? Also, on my DMM I believe I
> have a resistance (ohm) setting and a continunity? test (arrow with a
> line through it). Would either of those help me test the transistor
> and/or diodes?
>
> Here are pics of the newly installed left coil (which does operate
> just fine) and the right one that is now the old left one. Also one
> note... the flipper switch does properly trigger the LED's on the
> board and does still trigger the upper right coil. So hopefully that
> does help narrow it down.
>
> New Left Side Coil Installed & Working Properlyhttp://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/left.jpg
>
>
> Newly Installed Right Coil (unhooked for testing)http://www.scottberry.com/pictures_forum/right.jpg
>
> Currently Soldered In Right Side Coil (which is the old left side coil
>
> I am happy to unsolder the transistor... I looked up testing
> procedures but without knowing what I am doing I'm not sure I
> I don't know what kind of transistor it is and what pins are which.
Thanks for the pics Scott. It looks like you have it wired correctly
(orange wires on non-banded side of the diode).
The symbol on your DMM that looks like an arrow with a line thru it is
what you are looking for. That's "diode test"...the arrow and line
being the symbol for a diode.
To test the TIP-36c...from Clay's guide...
TIP36c: Put the red lead of the DMM on the metal tab of the
transistor. Put the black lead of the DMM on each of the two outside
legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts
should be seen. Put the black lead on the center transistor leg
(collector) and the red lead on the metal tab, and a zero reading
should be seen. Put the black lead of the DMM on the left/top (base)
leg of the transistor. The red lead on the center transistor leg
should show .4 to .6 volts. The red lead on the right/bottom leg
should be .2 volts. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and
will need to be replaced.
Carry on soldier...
Trevor
line going through it--sounds like you have that on yours. To test a
diode, you'll first want to desolder one end of it from the coil
first(make sure machine is turned off and/or unplugged for safety!)
Then with your DMM set to the diode test setting, put the black DMM
probe on the non-banded side(anode) of the diode and the red DMM probe
on the banded side(cathode) of the diode. You should get no reading(0
volts). Now, switch the probes to the opposite sides and the reading
should be somewhere in the range of .4 to .6 volts. If you get a
reading in both directions, or you get a reading considerably higher
or lower than .4 to .6 volts--you have a bad diode. If you're
uncertain that your readings are accurate, try the same test on a
known working diode(from a switch, lamp or coil that works)...that way
you can tell whether the DMM is set properly for the diode test.
Hopefully you'll find that you have a bad diode. In that case install
a new one(note which lug the banded side is on!!!), and you may also
want to check the coils resistance and compare with the other working
flipper coils to verify your coil is still good.
Good luck!
Trevor
Trevor
less work, and hopefully that will be the problem so you can disregard
what I suggested about testing the coil diode. If the transistor
tests good, then you'll probably want to check the coil diode(though
if it's a new coil, the diode is most likely ok)...
Trevor
Scott
All of my "red" coils (the green old left side one was the wrong
model, I believe) resistance is 4.6Ohm. This is with the diodes on the
coils.
I pulled the diodes on both the original right coil and the new one
(just to test them both and confirm) and the readout on the display
the first way was 1 (the way the meter reads on the diode testing mode
without doing anything) and the second way was around 550 or so on the
readout. Not sure if that is related to the volt measurements you
posted above.
The original red coil from the right side diode (clipped completely
from the coil) read out about the same. One way "1" on the display
(meaning nothing, no result as far as I can tell) and the other way
was around 500ish.
The resistance did not change after removing the diodes.
Not I desoldered (man desoldering wick and the suction tool from Parts
Express are awesome) the transistor from the board and it does not
test out as Chris noted above. Red on top and black on one outside leg
(on diode test mode) shows "1" on the display (no result) and the
other leg is around 525 or so. Black on top red to center leg shows
"000" on the display and either outside leg shows "1".
So I would have to think this transistor is dead?
I'm gonna order up some of the recommended parts from the pinrepair
site from partsexpress and replace the TIP36c in question. Can I test
the other transistors in the board? Or do I have to remove them and
diodes to test?
I tested the other two TIP36c's on the board without removing and they
read this:
RED on top black to outside legs 455 or so
BLACK on top red to center 000
BLACK on top red to either outside leg "1"
THANKS GUYS!
Trevor
are probably fine, but I'd go ahead and order a few extra just in case
you need them in the future, especially considering how cheap they
typically are to buy. You may want to get a few extra 1N4004 diodes
while you're at it, they are also usually very cheap to buy, and it
wouldn't hurt to have a couple spares lying around too. The coil
diodes you tested sound like they are good, though. So, chances are
the short that was blowing the fuse was in the TIP36c that tested
'525'(which should be .525 volts) with the red lead on the top and
black on one outer leg, but came up '1' when tested to the other outer
leg. So get yourself a new transistor and solder those diodes back on
the coils and let us know how it works out for you! You may have this
one figured out!
Trevor
Scott
Shack had when I was there the other day to get the resistors. I also
bought every resistor assortment they had (1/2, 1/4 and 1/8) so I'm
fairly set there. Of course I'm almost out of 3amp slo-blo now :D
Gonna order some parts up from mouser or somewhere, partsexpress
doesn't have many transistor options.
Trevor
Electronics. Excellent service, prices, and selection. Plus, the
owner/operator of the biz is a rec.games.pinball regular. I've
ordered parts from him a couple times and the service is top notch!
Get a few more fuses too, just in case. You never know, even though
the transistor should be replaced there may still be other things that
need attention...
Let us know how it turns out!
Trevor
Scott
Great Plains site. Hopefully this fixes it :D
Scott
in today finally and installed it, same problem. Now I *think* the
first time I had the machine on the flipper worked once and then the
F1 fuse blew. Relpaced the fuse to confirm and it blew right away as
the flippers got power.
Pulled the board and felt the R2 whatever it is and it was very warm.
Not sure if that is an indicator of anything but decided to pull it
and test it. On a diode test mode it says about 1997 on my meter on
the lowest resistance setting it shows nothing.
Should I keep trying to test and replace items or is there something
else outside of the flipper board that could be causing the issues?
Scott
seems to test properly per the transistor testing procedures listed
here before.