4 square pinball machine repair help!!!!!!!
Cubfan2008
Gottlieb 1971. I am trying to get it going, but to say the least I am
a novice. Cody Chunn referred me to this group for possible help. 1st
is there anyone out there in the Pensacola FL/ Mobile AL area that can
repair this machine and /or show me what to do? I am happy to pay
their hourly rate. If not here is the problem. Maybe someone can give
me a little advice. When the machine is plugged in only the backglass
lights up. When the start is pushed the start relay and the hold relay
on the right side activate, but nothing else. I can activate the the
bank of relays on the left by manually flipping the bar that operates
them, but it will not do anything by itself. When that bank of relays
is on the playfield lights up and the "computer" turns but that is
all. I have been sanding the points on the relays on the right side
but it has not made a difference. Don't really know where to go from
here. let me know if anyone out there can help me.
cody chunn
to repair. It is basically flatlining.
It should be noted that there was a, ahem, cumbustion event around the
adjustment wires for balls per game and the one next to it. Bad enough where
a few inches of insulation got burned off. These wires aren't shorting out
though.
With the game not responding to pretty much anything, I felt it better to
defer to the EM experts for advice.
--
-cody
CARGPB4
"Cubfan2008" <ja...@qualityfilters.com> wrote in message
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Cubfan2008
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Cody I forgot to mention the combustion around the wires.
cody chunn
?
--
-cody
CARGPB4
"Cubfan2008" <ja...@qualityfilters.com> wrote in message
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NJ Add-A-Ball
TECH EM:
its hard to know which posts need tech help without the above.
Mike
Chris Hibler
This is a Cardinals Fan. Proving that Pinball can transcend even the
Cards-Cubs rivalry, I'll take a shot.
1. Do you have the schematics?
2. Are you comfortable reading them?
3. Check all the fuses. They are probably good, but buzz them out with
your meter. Visual inspection is not sufficient.
4. Now, you say that when the credit button is pressed, the start
relay energizes. That is where you have to start. Check the
schematics. The start relay will have several NO (normally open)
switches that "start" things, like the motor running. Check the
switches for proper gapping. Use a flexstone file or no courser than
400 grit sandpaper on the points. Don't go crazy sanding. Just a light
pass or two should do it.
5. Head on over to www.marvin3m.com/fix and check out the two sections
on EM repair and restoration. You'll find a lot of good information to
get you started there. You need to take a methodical approach to
solving each problem.
Answer these questions please. Let us know what happened after these
steps...report back...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
Cubfan2008
> Hello Cub Fan.
>
> This is a Cardinals Fan. Proving that Pinball can transcend even the
> Cards-Cubs rivalry, I'll take a shot.
>
> 1. Do you have the schematics?
> 2. Are you comfortable reading them?
> 3. Check all the fuses. They are probably good, but buzz them out with
> relay energizes. That is where you have to start. Check the
> schematics. The start relay will have several NO (normally open)
> switches that "start" things, like the motor running. Check the
> switches for proper gapping. Use a flexstone file or no courser than
> 400 grit sandpaper on the points. Don't go crazy sanding. Just a light
> pass or two should do it.
> on EM repair and restoration. You'll find a lot of good information to
> get you started there. You need to take a methodical approach to
> solving each problem.
>
> Answer these questions please. Let us know what happened after these
> steps...report back...
> --
>
> On Feb 18, 8:00 pm, Cubfan2008 <ja...@qualityfilters.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I recently purchased my first eclectromechanical game,4squareby
> > Gottlieb 1971. I am trying to get it going, but to say the least I am
> > a novice. Cody Chunn referred me to this group for possible help. 1st
> > is there anyone out there in the Pensacola FL/ Mobile AL area that can
> > repair this machine and /or show me what to do? I am happy to pay
> > their hourly rate. If not here is the problem. Maybe someone can give
> > me a little advice. When the machine is plugged in only the backglass
> > lights up. When the start is pushed the start relay and the hold relay
> > on the right side activate, but nothing else. I can activate the the
> > bank of relays on the left by manually flipping the bar that operates
> > them, but it will not do anything by itself. When that bank of relays
> > is on the playfield lights up and the "computer" turns but that is
> > all. I have been sanding the points on the relays on the right side
> > but it has not made a difference. Don't really know where to go from
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you Chris. This is the year I can feel it Go Cubs! I do not have
a schematic but I will try to get one, and I will put all your
suggestions into action this week. The fuses were tested by Cody when
he checked the machine out, and they were o.k. He also told me to sand
the points. I have not done it yet, but will this week. I'll report
back after I have finished with the sanding. Thanks again.
AL
He also told me to sand
> the points. I have not done it yet, but will this week. I'll report
> back after I have finished with the sanding.
I must respectfully disagree with wholesale points cleaning. I feel
that more problems will be introduced by this process than will be
resolved.
There is a start up / reset sequence that should occur. Pressing the
start button should activate the start and hold relays. It will be
additional contacts on the start relay that will continue the process
to reset the score reels, reset the relay bank, clear any bonus and
kick out the ball. All of this requires the score motor (what you
referred to as the computer) to run until the sequence is complete. A
set of contacts on the score motor will open, and when the start-up
sequence is complete, the Start relay [S] will de-energize and the
score motor will stop.
Without a schematic for that particular game, it will be next to
impossible to follow the logic ciruitry to resolve the problem. I
would humbly suggest that you refrain from a random approach to the
repair and order a schematic on Monday. Gottlieb published
Installation and Operations manuals as well. I am not sure it they did
this on these earlier games.
In the mean time, you can manually exercise (pressing the metal
actuator bar) other relays to see if it will jump start it. Try the 1
point, 10 point, 100 point, Reset control, Hole and tilt relays.
But, there may be more than one problem now. If any solenoid activity
occurs, any lamps are lit in the backbox and playfield, you can rule
out fuses. The more precision you use in describing your symptoms, the
more accurately we can assist in isolating the problem(s). Be
patient, we haven't lost one yet. : )
Steve at Pinball Resource wwill be you most complete documentation and
parts source for this game. You can start surfing now at www.PBResource.com
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com
Chris Hibler
generally done than good; and he's neither a Cards fan or a Cubs
fan...
Focus only on the switches that are in the problem path for the
symptom you are working.
cody chunn
sort of cause the motor to run the contacts were arcing. This machine had
obviously been neglected for a long time. In my limited experience, it is
best to go through and clean all the contacts and verify a good make/break
before trying to diagnose problems because you then end up doing one switch
at a time, but still having to visit most them anyway. I also found a few
switches that were out of adjustment, so they all need to be checked and if
you're going to do that, why not hit them with a file since you're going to
be touching them anyway. Following this process, I have had games that were
out of commission play fine afterward, with no troubleshooting needed
because the problematic switches were corrected during servicing. So I
respectfully disagree with your position that more harm is done by cleaning
and adjusting contacts.
--
-cody
CARGPB4
"Chris Hibler" <ch...@team-em.com> wrote in message
news:327df0ba-004f-4ff6...@34g2000hsz.googlegroups.com...
Chris Hibler
in the condition you describe probably do warrant a good cleaning. I
don't run across many in that "cruddy" of a condition.
Perhaps some contact cleaner? :-)
Whoa...put down the flame thrower everyone...you might catch the
contact cleaner on fire...
Just kidding, really, about the contact cleaner...
AL
> Well, all the contacts are cruddy with black gunk, and one relay that would
> sort of cause the motor to run the contacts were arcing. This machine had
> obviously been neglected for a long time. In my limited experience, it is
> best to go through and clean all the contacts and verify a good make/break
> before trying to diagnose problems because you then end up doing one switch
> at a time, but still having to visit most them anyway. I also found a few
> switches that were out of adjustment, so they all need to be checked and if
> you're going to do that, why not hit them with a file since you're going to
> be touching them anyway. Following this process, I have had games that were
> out of commission play fine afterward, with no troubleshooting needed
> because the problematic switches were corrected during servicing. So I
> respectfully disagree with your position that more harm is done by cleaning
> and adjusting contacts.
Cody,
If this game were being serviced by you, I wouldn't question the
process of cleaning every contact and properly adjusting every switch.
I'm sure in your hands, this would yield a nicely working game that
would perform flawlessly for years to come.
Sadly, it's not in your capable hands. It is owned by someone who has
come to this forum for help. Not only to get his game operating, but
perhaps to gain some understanding as to how it works and how to
troubleshoot it in the future.
Hypothetically, let's say the owner did go through and clean and
adjust every single contact set in the game. Now, are you suggesting
that every time the game experiences a problem that this process be
repeated? Why not start the process of understanding now?
I have repaired dozens of games that have been fully cleaned and
adjusted by thier owners. More often than not, their inexperience has
created problems that now must be resolved, compounding the original
issue. Logic, be it Relay or Solid State is far easier to troubleshoot
when resolving a single set of symptoms.
On this game, there is some functionality that can be built upon.
Those contacts that are suspect will be cleaned in the process of
troubleshooting.
I mean no disrespect to your approach. I still feel that it is not
appropriate for the inexperienced.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com
cody chunn
good can be the result, and it is easy for a novice to do it wrong.
Absolutely agree. I concede I am not an EM repair whiz, that's why I
suggested he come here for advice. I'll just keep quiet and let you guys do
your stuff.
:0)
PS: Terming the score motor "computer" is also my doing. It's usually easier
for people to relate to it being the brain of the calculator. Cause what are
pins besides a glorified calculator?
--
-cody
CARGPB4
"AL" <A...@team-em.com> wrote in message
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