Printing New Backglass Art for old Wood rail
Brent Sorensen
Williams Sweethart backglass, which i have spent a few computer hours
& it is all touched up & ready to print (my original glass is vey
worn) & want to print it on a vinyl (mylar) type material as a
replacement behind a piece of clear glass sim to how the new ones are
done. Need to know which type of printer to use or if any can do it
for me I'd be happy to share the art if anybody else needs it
thx Brent
Drx10
my computer in 6 sections. I then found a program that would merge all 6
images into one single image (jpg). I then touched the image up and have not
had any luck trying to print one out. I did have Kinko's print on out on a
material that is designed for "backlit" applications. I was extremely
disappointed with the results. I did not even want to pay for them.
I have not given up hope on this project. I have contacted a guy in California
that said he has done this on his website. After e-mailing back and forth, I
don't believe that he has really completed one.
I think you should talk to a professional printing company, not Kinko's.
Let's keep talking!
Matt J
Joseph A. Tony Dziedzic
Many of them have the (specialized) equipment to print a translite. Keep an
eye out for sign company info on the back-lit displays commonly seen in
airports - another source of leads. Cost will run in the neighborhood of $100
from what I've found.
There's a place close by that claims to have done a few prototype translites
for Capcom. I brought a rifle gallery backglass in to be digitized and the
guy there quickly recognized what I wanted to do, and offered some
suggestions.
I also uncovered a company that would be able to do ink-jet printing directly
onto glass, but the samples they sent me didn't look like they'd have enough
body (opacity) - plus they had no way of creating the mask for the rear to
selectively block out light transmission on the areas that were black or
silver painted on the original glass.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
In article <20030122175249...@mb-cc.aol.com>, dr...@aol.com
amyotte
One problem I do note is that you have saved the images as jpegs. Jpeg
images are greatly compressed and lose alot of their detail. During the
digging I did I found that I was to scan, save and work using a TIFF image
format as there is no compression BUT the files are huge.
Kinkos can only print whatever is given to them.
Brian
www.geocities.com/amyottepinball/brianstoys.html
"Drx10" <dr...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Drx10
matching" capabilities. The end product looked nothing like the image off the
computer screen. It was such a poor job that the manager quickly offered to
reduce the price by 50%. The original price was going to be over $90. The
material is the expense part.
I strongly suggest that if you attempt this project, find a good graphic
printing company.
My feeling is that it is not going to be easy.
Matt J
cfh
Ok, hold onto your hats, here's what I have learned and done.
It's rather complicated, but if you want to do it right, this
is the procedure...
First, you MUST learn to use Photoshop. And it's gotta be version
5.0 or higher also, and NOT an "SE" version. It must be the
"full blown" $500 photoshop version. Photoshop is a must.
Second, you're gonna have to spend some more money and buy what is
known as a "Pantone solid to process" guide. These are not cheap,
but you *absolutely* must buy one. You can get them on ebay for
about $60 to $80. Don't buy one that is older than one year old,
as they fade with age.
Now there are a lot of "other" Pantone guides (matte, gloss, etc).
You don't want them! You ONLY want the "solid to process" guide.
What it is are a bunch of color swatches. You use this to match
the color off the original backglass. It gives you a Pantone color
number. The color number is the ink number that a printer would
use to match the color exactly. But the solid to process guide
also has a "4 color" version of this solid color. This is important,
as this 4 color version is what an ink jet printer uses to make
colors! So if using an ink jet printer, match on the process color.
Now back to photoshop. Bring your scanned image into photoshop.
You should have scanned it at 300 DPI or even 400 DPI. You can go
as high as 600 DPI. Any more is overkill. Make sure the size of the
document is correct in Photoshop. This is VERY important to do
BEFORE you start to edit the document!
Next figure out the first color you want to edit.
Use the Pantone guide and get the Pantone color number.
Inside photoshop you can type this pantone number in
DIRECTLY to photoshop! No messing around, photoshop will KNOW the
color you mean in the color selection area! PRETTY COOL. Now edit
that color, and EVERYWHERE you find that color you will need to
use the "paint bucket" tool to fill that color with the Pantone
color. For advance photoshop users, there are other ways to do this,
but for the novice, the paint bucket tool will work. I usually have
the adjustment set to 20 to 30, so it fills pretty well.
Ok so you did the whole document in this one color right? Now
move to the next color! Keep editing until you have the whole
document done. Note you should probably never go above about 12
different colors in a backglass. The more colors, the more complicated
reprodution will become (if you actually want to screen this
backglass).
Save the file in PHOTOSHOP FORMAT. Do NOT save in any other format!
You think you're done? Well if you're gonna print this on an
inkjet printer, you are done. Just print it. Or take it to Kinkos
and have them print it.
If you want an actual backglass, that is you want to print this
on glass or plexiglass, you are NOT done! If you REALLY want to do
this right, you now need *another* expensive tool. That would be
Adobe's Illustrator. Version 7.0 is the standard amoung printers,
though version 10 is currently available. This is a vector editor
(opposed to a pixel editor like Photoshop). But that's not really
why you need Illustrator. The reason you need Illustrator is to
COLOR SEPARATE the Photoshop document.
If you do a google search, you'll find lots of help on how to do
this. But basically you want a separate Illustrator layer for
each color, made from your Photoshop document. There are some
programs to do this automatically too, but they cost like $1000.
Once you have a layer for each color (and by the way, you can do
a BLACK MASK layer too, which is used to block light, making only
parts of the backglass semi-transparent!), you can take the
Illustrator 7.0 document to a screen printer or someone that
prints blueprints and architectural stuff. From this a screen printer
can make screens and actually screen a backglass. Or it can be printed
directly on plexiglass (some blue print and architectural places have
actual printers that will print directly onto plexiglass! That's the
best alternative, as it's cheaper, faster and easier).
As you can see this whole process is a considerable amount of work.
And it's not for the novice! I personally have not done the last
step (color separation). I have done up to that though, and have
re-created some nice stuff on the ink jet printer we have at work.
But a friend of mine has done the color separation and has recreated
his own blackglasses, complete with the black mask layer! (the black
mask layer is actually done on a separate thin film that is later
attached to the back of the printed plexiglass backglass, if you
are NOT using inks and screens, but instead are printing directly
on plexiglass).
Well i hope that helps. Good luck! And let us know how it came out.
mark
minus the lift rail to a graphic design printers who have a flatbed scanner
large enough to scan the glass.Any mirror pattern in the glass will come out
grey.They will print one copy on paper and then any other copy on
mylar.There are other techniqes in use but this is the only process i have
seen where you get a semi descent result.I have seen Tom Kenedys haunted
house back glasses and they look great dont know how he does those.
Michael Sands
bren...@cox.net (Brent Sorensen) wrote:
I have done this and with success. However it has been difficult and
needs a lot of learning to get it right.
I agree with CFH comments almost completely with the following additions:
Yes, Photoshop is a must! There are even tools and techniques for
stitching together the multiple scans of the glass into a single file.
Do not use Pantone! I disagree strongly here! While Pantone has a
proven process for color matching, there are problems. (My first effort
I used a Pantone color for one segment. It was the only color that was
incorrect!)
Use a computer that has color matching and prepress capability. (I am
biased. I started ColorSync at Apple as the engineering manager. Once
the computer, scanner, monitors and output are set correctly, you do not
need to worry further. What you scan, is what you see, and what you see
is what comes out on the output.)
Once the image is complete in Photoshop, run the final image through
another Adobe product called Streamline. This helps reduce the jaggies
by anti-aliasing the image.
As said, do not use jpeg. TIFF or other loss-less format is essential.
Finally, I have had good luck outputting the image in LaserMaster form.
Go to your local service bureau or find one that supports LaserMaster
output. The result is a transparency. It still needs support and the
silver layer that obsures the light.
Idaho, a woodrail war time conversion was my first image:
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/coinop/services.html
Finally, as stated before, this is time consuming and you need to
understand your tools. I spent over 40 hours on the above image. Some
of it was learning the tools, most of it was completing the image.
c...@provide.net
> I agree with CFH comments almost completely with the following additions:
>
> Yes, Photoshop is a must! There are even tools and techniques for
> stitching together the multiple scans of the glass into a single file.
>
> Do not use Pantone! I disagree strongly here! While Pantone has a
> proven process for color matching, there are problems. (My first effort
> I used a Pantone color for one segment. It was the only color that was
> incorrect!)
I had just the OPPOSITE result! The last thing I did I forgot
to do two colors on the Pantone system. And guess what? Those
were the two colors that didn't match and looked WAY different
than the original!
It may all have to do with the inkjet printer you use. The one I
used was designed with Pantone in mind. Also when you go to a
screen printer, and you say "pantone", they know EXACTLY what you
are talking about! Pantone is the industry standard for printers
(not computer printers) of nearly every type.
Tom Kennedy
Get the printing company to print out a proof on photogloss or similar paper
at full size for your comparison, then take that home and touch up any
other areas that need attention and colour correct where required.
I use a high resolution indoor backlit media made up of a plastic and minute
glass particles. I've had the Haunted House image printed onto an outdoor
backlit media and it looked only 70% as good as the more expensive high res'
media.
I created the blocking layer from the front layer so that when I laminate
them together they match exactly. Originally I had the rear of the HH glass
scanned and printed, but found they were slightly out and the crows eyes
didn't quite match etc.
I have just completed an El Dorado backglass using similar techniques but
this time scanned it in sections with my home scanner. It is not accurate
enough and once you stitch them back together you'll find that the display
areas don't match up correctly and you need to stretch and distort the image
until you're so sick of it and wished you'd paid the money to have it put
through a roller or similar scanner.
With this one I've had to make it using 3 layers. 2 for the main image
providing solid colours in the yellows so that the black blocking layer
doesn't make the yellow look dull.
I scan at 300dpi and drop the res' down to 200 to work with, then the
printer prints out at 600dpi.
Print and scan resolution are different.
Get your image professionally scanned and colour corrected right from the
start then take the image home and remove any scan lines, digitally touch
up the image, create a blocking layer from the front image, proof print it
and make sure you're happy then do the final print.
Regards,
Tom Kennedy
P.S. I've poured about $2000 Aus into scanning, rescanning, learning,
software, touching up, re-printing, changing media type and print
companies etc. It can be a real pain in the arse. Now I'm looking at
getting it screen printed. More money!!
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