Warning – Bad dealings with Mad Amusement, very, very poor customer ethics!

[Pinwizman]

Don’t buy from Mad Amusement. They will screw you if given half a
chance, unfortunately I gave them that chance by buying from them with a
check, no way to come back on them if there’s a problem.

They sent me damaged goods and then tell me that I was too stupid to
open a box with a backglass in it. They don’t have the balls to own up
to their own damages, or it is that they are trying to get rid of a bad
glass that they screwed up themselves. I now believe they sent me the
damaged Bally Eight ball Backglass on purpose because they knew I
couldn’t come back on them because I sent a check. For those of you out
there who know me, know that I do operate on the up and up. I own up to
my mistakes, some people just don’t have the balls to. I think I know
how to unwrap a backglass!!!!

Apparently, his shop manager would never do anything wrong, only the
buyer is wrong or a dam liar.

This is photo's of what I got from them:
http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo5.html. You can see in the photos that the
box is undamaged. I hand pealed the bubble wrap off the backglass (DID
NOT USE A RAZOR KNIFE AS THEY ACCUSED ME OF) to see scratched all over
the back of the glass. The response I got was I was treated like a
little kid that was stupid and had never unwrapped a backglass before
and most likely swapped the backglass.

Here is their response:

I spent quite a bit of time talking with my shop manager who prepares
and
wraps all of the backglasses. He puts backglasses aside that have
pinhole
size issues, so nothing like this would ever be wrapped up and shipped
to
anyone.

THE SCRATCHES SHOWN IN THE FIRST CROPPED PICTURE ARE EXACTLY WHERE THE
BUBBLEWRAP WAS CUT AND THEY RESEMBLE RAZOR OR SCISSOR MARKS. ALL OF
THE
OTHER SCRATCHES ARE VERY CLOSE TO WHERE THE EXTRA BUBBLEWRAP WAS AFTER
THE
GLASS IS WRAPPED. THE BACK OF THE GLASS, JUST LIKE ANY BACKGLASS, IS
VERY
DELICATE AND WILL SCRATCH IF ITS IMPROPERLY HANDLED, UNPACKED OR PLACED
ON
A SURFACE AND MOVED AROUND.

MY CONCLUSION AT THIS POINT IS THAT YOU DAMAGED IT WHEN
HANDLING/UNPACKING
IT OR YOU SENT A PICTURE OF A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BACKGLASS; POSSIBLY
THE
FIRST ONE THAT YOU ORDERED IN JANUARY. IN CHECKING YOUR ORDER HISTORY,
THE ONLY OTHER ITEM YOU EVER PURCHASED FROM US THROUGH OUR WEBSITE WAS
THIS EXACT SAME BACKGLASS ON 1/15/11; WHICH IS VERY IRONIC.


Now look at this photo: http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo6.html. As you
can see I peeled the bubble wrap away from the first scratch I saw thru
the bubble wrap. As you can see the rest of the bubble wrap is still on
the backglass. So how did all the other scratches get under the bubble
wrap before I removed it??? What would I have to gain by damaging my own
backglass???

The backglass he refers to from last year January that I must have
swapped out with was on a game that I sold last May. See photos:
http://www.pinwizman.com/SoldGames/EightBall_4.html, not to mention how
ironic it is that I would have bought a backglass a year ago sense I
restored and sold 4 Eight Balls in 2011.

Here’s a few of the machines I’ve restored over the past couple years.
http://www.pinwizman.com/Restorations.html.

With many more pins I have to restore over the coming months and years,
the big looser will be Mad Amusement who will never see another penny of
my money again. Keep in mind what he did to me; he could do it to you
some day.

Robert H.


--
Pinwizman
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[Joe Grenuk]

I am sorry you had an issue, but really, this isn't the way to handle
it. TALK to them, work it out. You haven't posted to try to fix
anything for yourself; you posted to extract your pund of flesh for a
wrong, perceived or real. Once you come here and set the oil wells on
fire, you've also blown up any chance you had to get your issue
resolved. Mike has been around a long time here, and is generally
regarded as a good guy. Not the best, not the worst. I for one, won't
be dissuaded from doing business with him because of your issue...and
I think you risk being put on the "Don't do business with" list of
people here, who don't want to be on the receiving end of a blast like
this.

Sorry, just my $.02.

Joe

[junkbaron]

I have always had great service from Mike at MAD. He is my favorite
parts guy because of him always having fast turn around time as well
as great products.

I can't explain how you got what you got as far as that backglass but
I find it hard to believe Mike would ship something out in that
condition. What would he have to gain by doing that? Pissed off
customer, bad feedback from the customer, post like this on RGP, etc.
Something just doesn't seem right.

I would call him and talk to him about it but I just can't see him
shipping something like that. I am not saying you did the damage and
I do understand your frustration but something just doesn't seem right
about this.

[TunaSled]

Nothing but good business with Mad in my experience. Never a problem.

[shlockdoc]

I am sorry either way about the glass. Bummer. I do agree with joe here
and rgp is not binding arbitration though many would like it to be.
Mike has been solid with me and hard to find parts for restores was a
blessing. Hope it gets resolved.


--
shlockdoc

[PINBALL SAMURAI]

On Jan 10, 5:33 pm, TunaSled <tunas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nothing but good business with Mad in my experience. Never a problem.

Mike has always been a pleasure to deal with . Never a problem. Good
stock , fast shipping . Nothing negative ..

[Jesse Wilson]

How come those marks are all the same triangular shape? Any chance it
was opened in transit for some reason? Well if it didn't happen in
transit, then it must have been there before it was sent or you did it
after you got it and that's a tough situation for sure....


Jesse

[llabrevlis]

Any sign that the box was opened for inspection or something, can't
believe a respected seller would send out something with an issue like
that, just doesn't pass the smell test.

Dale

[Ben Yetter]

A++ for mike for years on my parts

[Detroitboy]

I'd calm down and talk to him. I can understand your feelings, but
Mike has always treated me good and been very helpful over the phone
with pointing me in the right direction on issues. Its unfortunate
that these things happen, but they do in this hobby as well as many
others.

[Frank Furhter]

Pinwizman wrote:
> Don’t buy from Mad Amusement. They will screw you if given half a

[... lots of problems with your dealings ... ]

Try doing some other titles, broaden your skills/experience/horizon.
Your CC is either not cured and/or finished properly. Box art does make
for glitz, but not quality alone.

As for the BG, looks to have a screwdriver taken to it out of anger or
excitment to unwrap by a drunk restoration guy. :)

[jeffb418]

Never had an issue with Mad Amusements or Mike. Great seller and a good
guy in the pinball business.


--
jeffb418

Jeff B
--------
Salt City Pinball Group (Central NY)
http://groups.google.com/group/SaltCityPinball

[Beemus]

> Here s a few of the machines I ve restored over the past couple years.http://www.pinwizman.com/Restorations.html.

>
> With many more pins I have to restore over the coming months and years,
> the big looser will be Mad Amusement who will never see another penny of
> my money again. Keep in mind what he did to me; he could do it to you
> some day.
>
> Robert H.
>
> --
> Pinwizman
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

The only 8 Ball BG on his site are 2nds and out of stock. Might they
have also received some 9ths? :p
If these came out of canuckia might the customs folks have damaged
them on the way to the distributor?
Can you scratch through the backing layer with a fingernail?
Very mysterious.

[Ed Z]

Am i crazy or is bubble wrap *only* a very weak packing method for this
item.

Seems like a cardboard covering for the back would be simple cheap and
effective for preventing what the seller *said* happened.

I could see damage being done right through the bubble wrap.

My complaint would be poor packaging.

Blaming it on the buyer with the words used, was unnecessary as they
could have simply stated that "something happened after it left our
facility" and avoided insulting the buyer.

There could be some unknown communications that we are not privy to, but
with the information provided, the *judgement* although a likely
scenario, is still *speculation* and is bad customer service.

If the seller has an "AS IS" or "shipped at your own risk" policy then
the buyer has no recourse or complaint. Each party seems to blame the
other when there is a *possibility* of another explanation, including
the packing guy carelessly handling the package and accidental damage.

If the back was covered in cardboard, then this type of damage (by the
recipient) would be harder to accomplish.


Ed Z


--
Ed Z

[John T.]

It almost looks like something else was also packed in the box and was
rubbing on the glass in transit....Was the glass shipped by itself in
the box or were there other parts?
Sorry your having this problem...
-John T.

[Dennis Cole]

Just want to say,if that was done in transit the flakes of paint would
be in the bubble wrap. If mike didn't pack it himself,then he has no
way of knowing if it was shipped out like that, what? No one on RGP
has ever lied to the boss before. You can never trust an employee.

[GOCATGO]

> Here s a few of the machines I ve restored over the past couple years.http://www.pinwizman.com/Restorations.html.

>
> With many more pins I have to restore over the coming months and years,
> the big looser will be Mad Amusement who will never see another penny of
> my money again. Keep in mind what he did to me; he could do it to you
> some day.
>
> Robert H.
>
> --
> Pinwizman
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Sorry to hear of the mishap Robert. I too have had no problems w/Mike
but only have ordered a couple of times.

W/those marks on the bg it almost looks like to me like there were
those heavy copper metal staples that are used to close up cardboard
boxes etc.(if you know what I mean) and were possibly wrapped in the
bubble wrap against the glass...did you find anything laying in the
bubble wrap??? Otherwise I would think that it came that way to you
as box is unmarked from outside and I certainly doubt those marks were
made from a knife upon cutting open bubble wrap. Maybe damge was
overlooked by his 'packer' or 'packer' did it and didn't want to speak
up...probably a lot of variations could have occured.

Hope this all works out for you.

Russ
www.Team-EM.com

[Rick Swanson]

On Jan 10, 4:39 pm, Pinwizman <rhoffm...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> This is photo's of what I got from them:http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo5.html.

I laid a ruler over the image in which one can see your hands on both
sides of the backglass. The three areas of scratching (score window
on left, waitress in center, girl next to pinball machine on right)
fall in a straight line and are essentially equal distance apart. Not
sure what that means... but I thought it was interesting.


Rick Swanson
cargpb6

[Tlamb]

Mike has always done right by me as well. I had one issue that was more of a misunderstanding and he promptly corrected the issue.

MAD is usually my first stop for pinball parts, I just wish I could get all the parts I am looking for from him. I always seem to have to place multiple orders to get all the items I need, 1 to Mike, 1 to Marco.

Talk to him, I am sure you can come to a resolution, but it did look like it may have been tampered with.

Todd

[Frank Furhter]

If if you are the employee, or your wife? Seriously?

[greatw...@hotmail.com]

I have shipped glass, & the seller assumes some or all risks usually.
UPS destroyed a glass, I was out the shipping & most of the selling
price on the glass. Personally I wrap glass in paper, then use a CPR
box which uses catacomb cardboard protection. Don't know what happened
here, but my guess is it was a damaged glass before shipping.

[Space-Bo]

There are three major areas of damage.  The pattern for each is
*almost* identical: a 3-4-5 triangle with a secondary *v* on the
hypotenuse. All three are in the same general orientation.  This
strongly suggests that (3) foreign objects were wedged against the
glass, at the same time, while the glass was moved.  The most likely
scenario is that the glass was placed on a counter top, art down, on
top of the foreign objects then slid around.  Who, when and exactly
how is undetermined. I cannot fathom how or why either the pin savvy
buyer or pin savvy sell would treat a back glass in this manner.

Doug D.

[Jesse Wilson]

Maybe it WAS in perfect shape until it got placed on top of something on
the shipping/packaging table to be prepared for shipment? Maybe whomever
packaged it was telling the truth and didn't notice that it happened
while he was packaging it.


Jesse

[Robinva]

MAD give this guy his money back and be done with this.

[Pinwizman]

It�s clear that Mike made his decision. He clearly stated (My
conclusion at this point is that you damaged it when handling/unpacking
it or you sent a picture of a completely different backglass; possibly
the first one that you ordered in January. In checking your order
history, the only other item you ever purchased from us through our
website was this exact same backglass on 1/15/11; which is very
ironic.). I take offense to being call a liar or a cheat. I will send
the backglass out next week to get it touched-up. I will stand up for
myself when wronged. End of story.

Rob H.

[greatw...@hotmail.com]

I would wait & see how it plays out. I know what I would do in this
situation, selling glass sucks, & shit happens. I wouldn't even try
touching up that glass, into the trash bin it would go.

[John In WI]

Was there any indication on the bubble wrap that what ever rubbed
against the glass happened while it was wrapped?

[Space-Bo]

On Jan 10, 8:55 pm, John In WI <jhen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Was there any indication on the bubble wrap that what ever rubbed
> against the glass happened while it was wrapped?

Highly unlikely. This glass had the crap gouged out of it. That
ain't gonna happen even with 3 packing staples hiding in the bubble
wrap.

Doug D.

[Beechwood]

I bet someone was intrigued by all the "Fragile" stickers, opened it in
transit, and set it on something that scratched the heck outta it.
Rewrapped and sent it on its way.

Crazier shit has happened.


--
Beechwood

Joel
HIOP
"Hey, Its Only Pinball!!"

[Beechwood]

Holy crap, on closer inspection, I know who did this...

It was the Malachi brothers!!

[bara...@gmail.com]

The damaged spots are equal distant apart and mostly identical in appearance. Hrmm

[chriswatts]

I'll put this in there...
Rob is a stand up guy and would go above and beyond to do the right
thing. I've known him for quite some time and I believe anyone else
who knows him would agree with me. If there is something he can do for
you he is quick to lend a hand or give out some advice. I also would
highly doubt if he damaged the glass he would try to blame it on
someone else. On top of that Mike made the claim about it being a
glass he previously purchased and damaged why would he have paid with
a check? Anyone who does much selling knows that Paypal is the least
safe way to take a payment since paypal pretty much is always willing
to screw the seller without reason.
As for Mike..Ive had two dealings with him, one went smoothly and as
you would expect to be taken care of. The other transacion (oddly paid
with a check on this one) was a complete pain in the ass
headache..Couldnt reach him over the phone, wouldnt respond to emails,
was pretty abrasive when I could get in contact with him and wouldnt
ship our order out without reason.. He actually had deposited the
check and it was still nearly two months before we ever got the
order.. The whole situation gave me the feeling like he didnt really
care about my order because he has us all by the balls since we cant
just walk out to WalMart and buy our parts. Im sure theres plenty of
good transactions that Mike has made, This one however is just a
reminder for me to shop elsewhere..

[seymour.shabow]

Agree with you on Rob's character. And really, the people that are
saying "Had a good transaction with Mike" - that's great. So, are they
saying Rob's lying because Mike was good to them?

[Frank Furhter]

Seems there is a gouge on the BG, and the buyer is calling the seller a
liar/cheat/crap seller.

[The CNY PIN GUY]

> liar/cheat/crap seller.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Never had an issue yet dealing with Mike / Mad

always answers my emails and prompt on shipping + have always gotten a
partial shipping refund

if Mike has the part i need i usually get it from him as his prices
are usually lower then some not all but some

everyone has their own story but this was mine

James

[Frank Furhter]

Seems you along with about 10 others tell their story, and 1 with a
fucked up shipment or handling or opening tells another. Seems duh,
that 9 out of 10 win.

[Dan L.]

Are you saying this glass got the ... Malachi crunch?

Man - we're old.

Dan L.

[Mick406]

Robert H.

I am in full agreement with you and believe you 100%!!!!

I can't believe so many people on this forum say they just pick up the
phone and call Mike and he answers and so SWEETLY handles all their
problems. BULLSHIT!!!!

I am in the middle of a nightmare with Mike. Let me just say it in
simple terms:

1. He has had over $1,000 in his bank account for an order placed in
early November.

2. He NEVER answers the phone.

3. He does not answer his emails.

4. He is rude and arrogant.

5. He talks in circles, makes up stories, has a different version of
where the money is every time I have been able to reach him. And
believe me . . . I reach him in 1 out of every 100 phone calls made!!!

6. He does not have a store. He operates from a ghost mailbox
service.

7. I am not sure he even has other 'employees' in which to blame. I
think he is a one-man show.

8. He is not registered with the BBB in Brick, N.J.

9. Conversations with Consumer Affairs in that city indicate a man who
is trying to remain invisible in the business community.

10. Simply put, you can barely carry on a conversation with him.

There are many, many horror stories about people's dealings with 'Mad
Mike'. I'm rather shocked so many have defended him on this forum. The
man needs some medicine and maybe a tax lawyer.


--
Mick406

[Frank Furhter]

Its pretty funny how this 'community' of favors and long term
relationships comes to the aid of each other in this type of scenario.
Almost makes one believe by default is a sham.

[rly...@carolina.rr.com]

Having dealt with Mad several times over the years and knowing what a
great seller he is, I'm inclined to believe the package may have
actually been opened in transit, unwrapped, scratched either on purpose
or accidentally, and rewrapped, as preposterous as that sounds. I've
had crazier things happen in the mail.

Kind of looks like somebody scraped a screwdriver over it several times.
No matter what happened, it's a fucking shame that was a beautiful
backglass.


--
RLy...@carolina.rr.com

[BC_Gambit]

Wow that sucks.

I was going to stay out of this thread as I don't really have a horse in
this race ( the one order I thought about placing to MAD I cancelled as
the shipping charges were obsene to Canada for the "measly" $100 of
stuff I was buying).

I just find it interesting the frequency I see this sort of post with
for MAD compared to the other vendors. Mystery restocking fees for
items that have never left his site, bad customer service (customer
disservice is probably a better term...) and on and on.

Its either a big and ongoing conspiracy, or something's wrong on the
sellers end. Even if he were larger than all the other vendors combined
(something I find very unlikely) I would not expect to see this severity
of complaint come up this often.

It seems I see way more horror stories, and presumably waaaay more per
customer transaction.

I hope things work out for you guys.

BC_Gambit

[mummite]

Mike @ Mad Amusements is fantastic. Never had any trouble, great
service and products.

[Mark Combs]

On Jan 11, 2:47 am, mummite <mumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike @ Mad Amusements is fantastic.  Never had any trouble, great
> service and products.

Rob is a stand up guy and a great asset to the pinball community. I
have seen this backglass in person and there is no way it was damaged
when the box was opened! I have had problems with Mad in the past
also. It's a shame Mad is not willing to give him a full refund. You
will never see a post like this about Pinball Life or PB resource
because they don't do business this way.

[hobs]

Im sure neither party is at fault here. Common sence would tell you
that. Im quite sure Mike would not have sent out a product looking
like that. What because hes personally out to f@#k Rob or pawn off bad
inventory for a few dollars. I dont think so.

That being said and with Robs credability here. He wouldn't start a
tread, complain to Mike , and give himself a headache if he did this
damage himself.

That only leads to one conclusion. SHIPPING. Both partys need to get
together on this and contact the shipper . If no insurance was taken I
would chalk it down to a lesson. Take insurance especially on
backglasses. You really cant expect Mike or any vendor for that
matter, to pay for something if they know the damage was not there
before it shipped. ( I wouldn't )

Get together on this and stop waisting tour time on treadslike this .
Its not going to help matters at this point,

Hobbs

[Space-Bo]

>
> That only leads to one conclusion. SHIPPING. Both partys need to get

> together on this and contact the shipper....

Lots of luck pinning it on the shipper. The box is clearly not
externally damaged. Unless there is clear and present evidence that
the box was opened in transit (cut packing tape that has been taped
over), they have no case.

Doug D.

[seeburg220]

This would make a great case for Judge Wapner, had he not retired.
I'm scared of Judge Judy ; )

[Pinhead37]

+ 1000 for Mick

[seymour.shabow]

It's laughable how somehow it's the BUYERS fault in any way shape or
form in this situation. Regardless of if it's the shipper's fault or
not, the seller is a BUSINESS, so it's obvious that they're going to be
shipping backglasses, if they sell them. Until the glass gets to the
buyer 100%, it's all on the seller. Unless there's some caveat on their
site that says "glass shipped at buyer's risk" - and no one sane should
buy glass from a site that says that.

From the pictures it looks like they packed it wrong anyway - you don't
put bubble wrap, packing peanuts, or anything that can rub against a
glass in shipping up against the unprotected back of a screened glass.

The right thing for the seller to do is offer a refund (or a partial as
I doubt Rob will risk sending it back - it would be "broken in transist"
if that were case) for the damage. Past performance from 2006 on would
indicate that's not going to happen with this seller. How 'bout them
apples, eh?

Pile away, guys, pile away.

[Butterflygirl24]

I have never dealt with MAD so I can not speak for his character...But
I do know Rob and
I will agree with Mark and Chris here that Rob is a stand up guy and
an asset to the pinball community.

Phoebe
CARGPB#38

[Pacpin]

Pinwizman;1859974 Wrote:
>
> This is photo's of what I got from them:
> http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo5.html. You can see in the photos that the
> box is undamaged. I hand pealed the bubble wrap off the backglass (DID
> NOT USE A RAZOR KNIFE AS THEY ACCUSED ME OF) to see scratched all over
> the back of the glass. The response I got was I was treated like a
> little kid that was stupid and had never unwrapped a backglass before
> and most likely swapped the backglass.
>
>

Hmm, by looking at the picture, it does look like it was scratched as
you were opening it. Did perhaps you use the restroom while you in the
middle of opening it and your cat or dog ran across it while it was on
the counter? Or perhaps the cat or dog did a 'butt scoot' over it and a
hardened piece of excrement scratched it? Do you have any rings on your
hand that might have inadvertantly scratched the glass as you were
opening it? Were there any loose nails heads poking through your
counter as you were unwrapping it? Is it possible one of your kids
might have played with their toy truck on top of the backglass while you
ran to answer the phone? Retrace your steps and really think about what
was going on while you were opening your backglass. Then i think you'll
figure out what happened.


--
Pacpin

[Joe Grenuk]

It never happens with Pinball Life or PBR cause they are smart enough
to not sell glasses :)

And, is it true that Mad Amusements used to be called Happy Amusements
before they started dealing with us customers?

Having said that, I am ready to issue my verdict.

Having heard all the evidence, which is insufficient to pin the blame
on either party, I hereby order Mad Amusements to issue a Mad
Amusements gift card in the amount of 50% of the purchase price to the
Plaintiff Rob, who can keep the glass.

I also order Mad Amusements to attend 15 minutes of remedial "How to
Best Ship a Backglass" training, conducted by Shay "Box-in-a-Box"
Assad.

I further order Plaintiff Rob to read the book "How to Be a Really
Nice Person", available at Amazon.com:

http://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_be_a_really_nice_person.html?id=wZNEPQAACAAJ

Thank you, have a nice day.

Thread is hereby declared Over, Court is adjourned.

Judge Joe

[Rompen]

I have had great experience with Mike - he's very attentive to making
sure items get promptly shipped.

[Robinva]

I see the humor in what you had to say, however Rob does not come
across as someone thats incapable of unpacking a BG for his restore
and the suggestion is downright insulting. He also does not strike me
as the kind of person that would waste his time with this for the
money or even post this thread if he didn’t feel he was wronged. I buy
from MAD and I like Mike…but he has a duty to his customer and not
doing the right thing will hurt him in the long run.

[John Wart, jr]

I can vouch for Rob, he's a good guy who you could trust with anything.
No way he screwed up this backglass and tried to place the blame back on
MAD.

I've known Mike to be a good seller, hopefully something can be done here.

[MrBally]

On Jan 11, 9:01 am, seeburg220 <seeburg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This would make a great case for Judge Wapner, had he not retired.
> I'm scared of Judge Judy ; )

The People's Court is currently hosted by Cuban hottie Judge Marilyn
Milian.

Judge Judy is a different show. She would be good at judging this
"case" though...

[NM]

seymour.shabow;1860480 Wrote:
>
>
> ...it's all on the seller...
>
> ...Pile away, guys, pile away.

Indeed.

Extremely well-run businesses will sacrifice profits to making a
situation right--even if the damage is the buyer's fault by accident.


--
NM

Current: AFM, CFTBL, FGY, MB, NGG, SS, STTNG, TAF, ToM, TSPP, TZ, WH2O,
'54 Gottlieb Stage Coach.

[Darrell DuMond]

> Hmm, by looking at the picture, it does look like it was scratched as
> you were opening it.  Did perhaps you use the restroom while you in the
> middle of opening it and your cat or dog ran across it while it was on
> the counter?  Or perhaps the cat or dog did a 'butt scoot' over it and a
> hardened piece of excrement scratched it?  Do you have any rings on your
> hand that might have inadvertantly scratched the glass as you were
> opening it?  Were there any loose nails heads poking through your
> counter as you were unwrapping it?  Is it possible one of your kids
> might have played with their toy truck on top of the backglass while you
> ran to answer the phone?  Retrace your steps and really think about what
> was going on while you were opening your backglass.  Then i think you'll
> figure out what happened.
>
> --
> Pacpin
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Really? This is the dumbest comment so far. Even a novice would be
careful opening a box with a backglass. How stupid do you think people
are? Dogs scooting across it? Kids playing with trucks on it? Just
stop posting, you are obviously incompetent, or this was a poorly
executed attempt at humor.

I don't know the buyer. I haven't bought from MAD before, but clearly
this is an issue with the seller and they not only refuse to stand by
their product and service, they accuse their own customer of being a
liar and trying to commit fraud. That is no way to do business.

[wbradley]

If I was a seller, I'd refuse to ship any glass without insurance. Same
for the buyer.

It's hardly worth saving the write-off to gain a ton of bad PR for the
seller. Unless he's really hurting, Mike is probably be better to just
own up this one time, and without determining cause, just split the cost
of replacement with the buyer. That way, both parties show equal desire
to resolve the situation. Let's face it, CSI can't solve this case.

And again, I defer to the first paragraph.

I have heard of people having issues with Mike, and many more who have
been happy with his service. I have bought from him with no issue and
believe it or not, I'd do it again. You know the saying, "Burn me once,
shame on you, burn me twice shame on me." That gives sellers a pretty
strong reason not to burn people if they rely on repeat business.


--
wbradley

[NM]

NM;1860683 Wrote:
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> Extremely well-run businesses will sacrifice profits to making a
> situation right--even if the damage is the buyer's fault by accident.

Attn. Mods: what happened to the edit feature on this site?

In any case, didn't mean to infer the damage was the buyer's fault by
accident--just wanted to point out the extreme.

I believe I'm done now.

:D

[Pacpin]

John Wart, jr;1860622 Wrote:
> On 1/11/2012 11:56 AM, Robinva wrote:

I wasn't saying it was definitely him, but the whole thought process of
"i know i didn't do it, therefore it must be his fault" is flawed. I'm
saying anything could have happened to the glass and that it is bad to
automatically place the blame on MAD.

[vivasantana]

> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's where it should end up. He should just take care of the
replacement & be done with it. Even if it was done in shipping of
which i see no evidence pointing to that. Of course that may not be
the actual box it came in. I can't see why the buyer would damage his
own stuff, makes no sense.
Replace or refund & move on.
Rob

Rock on Carlos, Rock on!

[seeburg220]

Lighten up, Francis. Me thinks a joke it was - Yoda

[Jesse Wilson]

Yea but it's hard to tell, bust out a winky face or something will ya!


Jesse ;o)

[homebrood]

Could it be that the bubble wrap got hot somewhere in transit, perhaps
set down by a heater or something along the way, and the plastic
softened, stuck to the paint on the glass, and when pulled off after
cooling and drying, pulled up the paint leaving strange patterns as
the paint cracked off? I like to cover glass in plain brown paper then
bubble for just this reason...

Just anther theory to throw in there...

Tom

[Jesse Wilson]

Find what would make that triangular shape scratch and you'll solve the
problem. Maybe MAD should look for something in their packaging area
that size and shape.


Jesse

[Mick406]

Mike at MAD belongs in an insane assylum . . . or in JAIL!

Some of you guys must have never heard him on the phone at full tilt
when he's going off like a psycho and you can't get a word in edgewise.
He's simply a bullshitter!!! He's always right! He's fucking rude,
obnoxious and arrogant!

You supporters of Mike will get your turn one day. Just wait . . . I
had three or four wonderful experiences . . . when I paid for a big
order and got it all. But when it goes outside of the usual
transaction, or you get him on a day he apparently didn't take his
tranquilizers, then LOOK OUT!

If he was a CARING seller, like Terry or all the other great pin parts
places, he would DEFEND himself on this forum or over on Pinside where
they are roasting him at this very moment too!

He doesn't care . . . that's why!


--
Mick406

[Pacpin]

I'm not defending the guy one way or the other, but just because the guy
doesn't show up on the forums and get in a big blow up argument with
other people on here is irrelevant. To me, that's called 'taking the
high road'. What purpose would it serve him to come on here and say he
didn't send the scratched backglass. He already told the buyer he
didn't do it. Why do you feel he needs to come on a public forum and
say it as well? So you have something to entertain yourself throughout
the day and watch them argue? I'm sure Terry and the other great
pinball vendors would handle the issue privately, which is what should
be done.


--
Pacpin

[BC_Gambit]

Pacpin;1861310 Wrote:
> I'm not defending the guy one way or the other, but just because the guy
> doesn't show up on the forums and get in a big blow up argument with
> other people on here is irrelevant. To me, that's called 'taking the
> high road'. What purpose would it serve him to come on here and say he
> didn't send the scratched backglass. He already told the buyer he
> didn't do it. Why do you feel he needs to come on a public forum and
> say it as well? So you have something to entertain yourself throughout
> the day and watch them argue? I'm sure Terry and the other great
> pinball vendors would handle the issue privately, which is what should
> be done.

I'm sure anybody here with a lick of sense would agree this should have
been handled privately, but see the original post again to remind
yourself of the outcome that had.

What would you do? Send an email begging for your money back pretty
please? Or at least give a warning to others by posting what happened
when you had a problem with an order?


--
BC_Gambit

[Mike Gervasi]

On Jan 11, 12:28 am, "Dan L." <daniel.tr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 6:26 pm, Beechwood <jzylstra1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Holy crap, on closer inspection, I know who did this...
>
> > It was the Malachi brothers!!
>
> > --
> > Beechwood
>
> > Joel
> > HIOP
> > "Hey, Its Only Pinball!!"

> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com
>

> Are you saying this glass got the ... Malachi crunch?
>
> Man - we're old.
>
> Dan L.

Don't tell Pinky.

[richiep]

Pinwizman tried to address it one on one, privately, but couldn't get
reasonable satisfaction from MAD. He 'aired' it here to see if any of
us had similar issues.....gotta tell you though, after reading through
all the posts in this thread, I for one would definitely think twice
about buying from MAD.


--
richiep

[Robinva]

Waiting on MAD to post here saying he DID the RIGHT thing = refund his
buyer.

[Mike Gervasi]

I bought a wide body lockdown bar from MAD. It came in and the box was
pristine. The bar was in bubble wrap and that was perfect. The bar has
a small circle of scratches on it and the lockdown arms were slightly
bent. I contacted them and was told it left them in perfect condition
but they would accept a return. I opted to take a 20.0 credit and call
it good.
HOW it was damaged in the first place is another mystery.
POSSIBLY whoever is handling these items last as they are packed are
damaging them and not realizing it?

[Pacpin]

richiep;1861341 Wrote:
> Pinwizman tried to address it one on one, privately, but couldn't get
> reasonable satisfaction from MAD. He 'aired' it here to see if any of
> us had similar issues.....gotta tell you though, after reading through
> all the posts in this thread, I for one would definitely think twice
> about buying from MAD.

Agreed, i have no problem with the OP at this point making it public to
warn others. But my reply was to the other poster who thought MAD was
wrong for not coming on here and defending himself. To me, there is no
point in doing that if it were me. MAD has stated where he stood with
the buyer, if MAD has a change of heart, he'll email the buyer privately
as well. Him coming on the forums and arguing with people will serve no
purpose. That was my original point. Again, i'm fine with the OP
coming on here and explaining the situation, thus, allowing us the
option of dealing with MAD in the future or not.


--
Pacpin

[Jonny O]

Some of the people around here crack me up. Like RGP is the CBS
Evening News of pinball and if people don't come on here to defend
themselves it's an obvious sign of guilt. Not speaking to this
particular situation and seller but the "why" is because they often
have better things to do.

[Joe Grenuk]

On Jan 12, 10:08 am, richiep <richard_pe...@colpal.com> wrote:

> Pinwizman tried to address it one on one, privately, but couldn't get
> reasonable satisfaction from MAD.  He 'aired' it here to see if any of
> us had similar issues.....gotta tell you though, after reading through
> all the posts in this thread, I for one would definitely think twice
> about buying from MAD.

Wrong, Richie. He didn't air it to see if any of us had similar
issues. He aired it because he was pissed off and wanted to do as much
damage as he possibly could to Mike and his reputation. It's like if
he couldn't have it his way on his dispute, Mike couldn't have his
reputation. Pretty shitty thing to do, IMHO.

[seymour.shabow]

I'm still failing to see how a buyer of something is responsible for the
shitty way it's packed. If there needs a claim to be put in by the
shipper, the shipper's gotta do it. All this could have been most
likely been avoided had they just wrapped the glass in kraft paper.

He aired it to warn others; yes, it damages Mike's reputation - that's
what a warning does..... you know all this Joe. If you sent something
out packed poorly and it was damaged, you wouldn't blame the buyer,
would you?

[Scott McClure]

On Jan 12, 10:46 am, "seymour.shabow" <seymour.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:

It's just my opinion, as I've never bought anything from this guy and
know nothing of him, but if you ship a backglass wrapped up only in
bubblewrap, well, your reputation has already taken a hit, if in fact
that is what happened. Bubblewrap, packing peanuts, any of that stuff
is abrasive and it won't mix well with the backside of a backglass.

I once shipped a glass to Norway. It made it without any damage
whatsoever. If I can do it (although at one point in my life I did
run a warehouse so I do know a bit about packaging things) then
someone who is selling stuff and shipping stuff for a living should be
able to do it too.

[Todd Newman]

This doesn't seem a whole lot different than publicly calling out an
ebay buyer/seller? Or calling for negative feedback? From the looks
of the thread, it appears that this company usually does well, but
also has a number of dissatisfied customers. They also do not seem to
have a "no questions asked" type return policy. These are all things
that should be considered when doing business with anybody.

My takeaway? Before this, I never would have considered doing
business with them because they were not really on my radar. After
reading this, I see that they have some parts I may be interested in
buying, but they will get paypal only, as that leaves me with the best
protection. So, the funny thing is, it can cut both ways and if the
OPs intention was to hurt MADs business, it may not work out that way.

I don't think knowing that there are mixed reviews on this business is
the worst thing in the world for our community.

[Larry Esposito]

seymour.shabow;1861406 Wrote:
> Joe Grenuk wrote:

> > On Jan 12, 10:08 am, richiep <richard_pe... (AT) colpal (DOT) com>

I agree and I'm glad the OP told his experience. Any reputatable
buisness has insurance for this type of stuff or eats the cost and makes
the buyer happy. They will be rewarded by having continued loyalty from
the buyer, not to mention reputations that will attract rather that
repel future customers.

Seems like buisness 101 to me.


--
Larry Esposito

[AddictedToEMs]

I disagree - Rob is a good guy and is getting screwed over. I think
this is valuable info for anyone considering buying a backglass from
this vendor.

[Frank Furhter]

Problem is you can't have insurance against someone or something like
tampering where the package shows no mishandling. You don't eat the
cost of an apparent screwdriver to the backglass. Problem here is its
he said she said, and the seller apparently wants folks to see the buyer
for what he thinks they are, and the buyer wants something covered that
he apparently didn't do. So, who wins, nobody. Who loses, both the
seller/buyer. You can't insure against tampering really, and if you do
find an underwriter they will consider that outside of the coverage
anyway eventually.

[Larry Esposito]

Frank Furhter.;1861547 Wrote:
>
> Problem is you can't have insurance against someone or something like
> tampering where the package shows no mishandling. You don't eat the
> cost of an apparent screwdriver to the backglass. Problem here is its
> he said she said, and the seller apparently wants folks to see the buyer
>
> for what he thinks they are, and the buyer wants something covered that
>
> he apparently didn't do. So, who wins, nobody. Who loses, both the
> seller/buyer. You can't insure against tampering really, and if you do
>
> find an underwriter they will consider that outside of the coverage
> anyway eventually.

Yeah, you're right, I forgot about the box and how it was in really good
shape. Even sans insurance, I still think the seller should come to the
plate for this one. Unless this buyer is a scammer, which there is
nothing to suggest he is, I can't justify the sellers attitude or stance
in the matter.

[Pinwizman]

Lets just end this. For you conspiracies, the backglass was packaged
very well. There was no damage to the box. There were no staples in the
box. There were no tears in the Bubble wrap. The backglass was packaged
very well. I’ve bought two not one but two backglass from Mad in the
past and I liked the way they were packed. I had no ell well against Mad
prior to this transaction. I did have plans on doing much more business
with them until now.

I did not use a screwdriver on the glass, why would I destroy a new BG
that I needed? I do not have any dogs or cats, so there were none
running all over the glass to scratch it. I do not have any kids living
in my house to scratch it while I was watching TV. Cut dry, the glass
had the scratches on it prior to being shipped. Did Mad do it, I don’t
know, was the glass damaged before Mad got it and had never unwrapped it
to see it, I don’t know. The point is it was scratched before shipping;
I did not damage a glass I need to sell a game. Mad call me a lair and
I’m call him on that. What’s my motive? To cost me more time and money,
for what? I would not have sent it back to them anyways, cost to muck. I
would have agreed to a small settlement, enough to cover the touch-up.
Period… I will have it touched up next week and go on with my business.


Rob H.


--
Pinwizman

[nitrojcrawf]

Is it possible the shipper i.e. ups/fed ex repackage the glass. They
have been known to do that on occasion. Just throwing it out there.


--
nitrojcrawf

[seymour.shabow]

nitrojcrawf wrote:
> Is it possible the shipper i.e. ups/fed ex repackage the glass. They
> have been known to do that on occasion. Just throwing it out there.
>
>

Even if they did, it's STILL up to the seller to make good. If the
shipping company screwed it up, it's the shipper who has to enter an
insurance claim on it.

The buyer has ZERO culpability in this until the box arrives at their
location from the shipper.

[Frank Furhter]

In this case it seems yes. However, if the buyer contracted either
boxing, shipment or alternative to the seller's standard delivery then
the buy is likely responsible for handling underwriting and claims.

[nitrojcrawf]

Agreed. I have had good luck with Mike. That being said I have never had
a situation like yours either. Good luck my friend. Stay the course and
be calm.

[Pacpin]

I was just throwing out ideas. I was pretty sure you were smart enough
not to let a cat or dog run across the backglass, but since you don't
have either, it is a moot point.

Do you by chance have a gerbil or hamster that you allow to run freely
throughout the house? From what i've heard they are attracted to items
that reflect light. If it was a sunny day outside, perhaps the sunlight
hit the backglass in the right way that attracted your loose
gerbil/hamster to scamper across it while you were in the shower.


--
Pacpin

[Chad H]

Pacpin;1862088 Wrote:
> I was just throwing out ideas. I was pretty sure you were smart enough
> not to let a cat or dog run across the backglass, but since you don't
> have either, it is a moot point.
>
> Do you by chance have a gerbil or hamster that you allow to run freely
> throughout the house? From what i've heard they are attracted to items
> that reflect light. If it was a sunny day outside, perhaps the sunlight
> hit the backglass in the right way that attracted your loose
> gerbil/hamster to scamper across it while you were in the shower.

Now you are just being silly. If he replies "no" to that are you goiing
to follow up with "Do you have a ferret or maybe a tea-cup pig?"


--
Chad H

[pins4fun]

Harry Selfridge,the self-made American-born retail magnate of the
British department stores "Selfridges", once said "customer is always
right". If I were Mad Amusements (considering the amount involved),
I'd immediately make a full refund and extend a public apology to the
customer and ask that the damaged item be returned at my own cost.
This would show to all watching/reading that I am a nice and reliable
businessman. It really doesn't matter if the customer is actually
right or wrong, IMHO.

[Robinva]

> right or wrong, IMHO.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No doubt! I just can’t believe that we have not heard from MAD about
him refunding his buyer. Had I opened that scratched POS, it would
have been shipped back to MAD before I sent him an e-mail. Paid by
check or not, if this is how MAD handles customer problems… he has a
lot to learn, to say the least. Just the title of this thread floating
around the top of RGP is extremely damaging to his business, although
he can still do the right thing and turn this around.

[Max Pinball]

On Jan 10, 4:39 pm, Pinwizman <rhoffm...@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
> Don’t buy from Mad Amusement. They will screw you if given half a
> chance, unfortunately I gave them that chance by buying from them with a
> check, no way to come back on them if there’s a problem.
>
> They sent me damaged goods and then tell me that I was too stupid to
> open a box with a backglass in it. They don’t have the balls to own up
> to their own damages, or it is that they are trying to get rid of a bad
> glass that they screwed up themselves. I now believe they sent me the
> damaged Bally Eight ball Backglass on purpose because they knew I
> couldn’t come back on them because I sent a check. For those of you out
> there who know me, know that I do operate on the up and up. I own up to
> my mistakes, some people just don’t have the balls to. I think I know
> how to unwrap a backglass!!!!
>
> Apparently, his shop manager would never do anything wrong, only the
> buyer is wrong or a dam liar.
>
> This is photo's of what I got from them:http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo5.html. You can see in the photos that the
> box is undamaged. I hand pealed the bubble wrap off the backglass (DID
> NOT USE A RAZOR KNIFE AS THEY ACCUSED ME OF) to see scratched all over
> the back of the glass. The response I got was I was treated like a
> little kid that was stupid and had never unwrapped a backglass before
> and most likely swapped the backglass.
>
> Here is their response:
>
> I spent quite a bit of time talking with my shop manager who prepares
> and
> wraps all of the backglasses.  He puts backglasses aside that have
> pinhole
> size issues, so nothing like this would ever be wrapped up and shipped
> to
> anyone.
>
> THE SCRATCHES SHOWN IN THE FIRST CROPPED PICTURE ARE EXACTLY WHERE THE
> BUBBLEWRAP WAS CUT AND THEY RESEMBLE RAZOR OR SCISSOR MARKS.  ALL OF
> THE
> OTHER SCRATCHES ARE VERY CLOSE TO WHERE THE EXTRA BUBBLEWRAP WAS AFTER
> THE
> GLASS IS WRAPPED.  THE BACK OF THE GLASS, JUST LIKE ANY BACKGLASS, IS
> VERY
> DELICATE AND WILL SCRATCH IF ITS IMPROPERLY HANDLED, UNPACKED OR PLACED
> ON
> A SURFACE AND MOVED AROUND.
>
> MY CONCLUSION AT THIS POINT IS THAT YOU DAMAGED IT WHEN
> HANDLING/UNPACKING
> IT OR YOU SENT A PICTURE OF A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BACKGLASS; POSSIBLY
> THE
> FIRST ONE THAT YOU ORDERED IN JANUARY.  IN CHECKING YOUR ORDER HISTORY,
> THE ONLY OTHER ITEM YOU EVER PURCHASED FROM US THROUGH OUR WEBSITE WAS
> THIS EXACT SAME BACKGLASS ON 1/15/11; WHICH IS VERY IRONIC.
>
> Now look at this photo:http://www.pinwizman.com/Photo6.html.  As you
> can see I peeled the bubble wrap away from the first scratch I saw thru
> the bubble wrap. As you can see the rest of the bubble wrap is still on
> the backglass. So how did all the other scratches get under the bubble
> wrap before I removed it??? What would I have to gain by damaging my own
> backglass???
>
> The backglass he refers to from last year January that I must have
> swapped out with was on a game that I sold last May. See photos:http://www.pinwizman.com/SoldGames/EightBall_4.html,  not to mention how
> ironic it is that I would have bought a backglass a year ago sense I
> restored and sold 4 Eight Balls in 2011.
>
> Here’s a few of the machines I’ve restored over the past couple years.http://www.pinwizman.com/Restorations.html.
>
> With many more pins I have to restore over the coming months and years,
> the big looser will be Mad Amusement who will never see another penny of
> my money again. Keep in mind what he did to me; he could do it to you
> some day.
>
> Robert H.
>
> --
> Pinwizman

[Pacpin]

pins4fun;1862112 Wrote:
>
> Harry Selfridge,the self-made American-born retail magnate of the
> British department stores "Selfridges", once said "customer is always
> right". If I were Mad Amusements (considering the amount involved),
> I'd immediately make a full refund and extend a public apology to the
> customer and ask that the damaged item be returned at my own cost.
> This would show to all watching/reading that I am a nice and reliable
> businessman. It really doesn't matter if the customer is actually
> right or wrong, IMHO.

I do agree with this to an extent, but you have to have limits. I work
customer service, and you would not believe the ridiculous things
customers expect us to do for them. Why do you think stores require
receipts for refunds? Why don't they return everything anyone brings in
and takes them "at their word".....because the company would go under in
no time! You need to draw the line at some point. By MAD publically
refunding this guy, even though they stated they did nothing wrong, that
could potentially open up cause for other people in the future to say
their stuff was damaged and expect refunds based on this thread.
Someone comes into my store, wants a 2.00 refund because the pop machine
at his money, i just give it to him because 2.00 isn't worth my time to
argue. Now if he goes on a public forum and says "hey everyone, this
store gives you refunds no questions asked on anything", then i'm going
to have a problem with it. At some point, you, as a business have to
stand your ground and say "no, i'm not going to let people walk all over
me anymore". Even if he does refund the money, this person isn't going
to buy from MAD ever again, so they aren't saving a customer at this
point.

If it were me, i'd say "look, i didn't do it, you claim you didn't do
it, no one knows for sure what happened, i'd be willing to refund you
half since neither of us knows for sure who is at fault" or something
like that. Which by the sound of the initial post, all the guy wanted
was the cost of touching up the backglass, which to me, is a 3.00 bottle
of paint. I would like to know what kind of 'touch up' reimbursement
money the OP was looking for.


--
Pacpin

[ldnayman]

On Jan 13, 10:00 am, pins4fun <pins4...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Harry Selfridge,the self-made American-born retail magnate of the
> British department stores "Selfridges", once said "customer is always
> right".  If I were Mad Amusements (considering the amount involved),
> I'd immediately make a full refund and extend a public apology to the
> customer and ask that the damaged item be returned at my own cost.
> This would show to all watching/reading that I am a nice and reliable
> businessman.  It really  doesn't matter if the customer is actually

> right or wrong, IMHO.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think this is a pretty outdated model of doing business. The
customer is often wrong these days.

Not in this case though. It would be infuriating to open a package and
get a damaged backglass, and have no recourse.

Personally I'm 0-2 shipping backglasses and won't be doing it any
more. UPS DID pay an insurance claim on the evel K backglass however.

[Frank Furhter]

-- Giving birth or resurrecting the dead, which is easier?
set Customer's isRight to true # new customer with property
put Customer into Seller's customers # new seller w/customers prop.
repeat while (each customer in Seller's customers).isRight
// doSomething here, anything that makes sense.
end repeat
Seller.liquidate #:)

[AddictedToEMs]

He doesn't do touch-up work himself. It would cost more than $3.

Scott

[Pacpin]

AddictedToEMs;1862199 Wrote:
> He doesn't do touch-up work himself. It would cost more than $3.
>
> Scott

So what would a resonable "touch up fee" refund be in this case, since
that's all the OP wanted from MAD? Assuming he would have to pay to
ship the glass to and from the person who's touching it up if he isn't
doing it himself? Most likely it'd be more than the backglass cost in
the first place.

[pins4fun]

CAVEAT EMPTOR:

Then: Under the doctrine of caveat emptor, originally, the buyer
could not recover from the seller for defects on merchandise that
rendered it unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the
seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material
misrepresentations amounting to fraud. Before statutory law, the
buyer had no warranty of the quality of goods.

Now: In many jurisdictions, the law requires that goods must be of
"merchantable quality". However, this implied warranty can be
difficult to enforce and may not apply to all products, as is being
shown to be true in this particular case.

Hi-yield: The buyers (the RGP community) would be well-advised to be
cautious.