CPR Black Knight Playfield Reproduction - Opinions needed ASAP
Mike Purcell
We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
However, there is some thing we need some your input on. We have the
artwork and its super, we have the wood, we have the inks...... he's
the catch. We cannot get the original style inserts.
Pilgrim Plastics was contracted in the 80s to design an insert that
would diffuse the filament so it could not been seen directly through
the insert. The faceted design they produced for BK was a failure and
it just did not work as they thought it would. The pinball companies a
short while later had a new design made, one we are all familiar with,
the starburst design that is basically still used today. So there is
the rub. We can get and use the newer starburst designs but there is
no way the originals can be had at any cost.
So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
or not at all. We need about 50 guys to buy these before we can break
even so We need to get a feel for how many guys would take these with
the modern inserts...
Now is the time for your input.
Thanks
Mike Purcell
www.classicplayfields.com
Mike Purcell
We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
However, there is something we need your input on. We have the artwork
and its super, we have the wood, we have the inks, however......
here's the catch. We cannot get the original style inserts.
Pilgrim Plastics was contracted in the 80s to design an insert that
would better diffuse the bulb filament to make the filament harder to
see directly through the insert. Black Knight used this new insert. It
basically didn't work and the pinball manufacturer's had a new design
made, the starburst design that appears on most newer games we are
familiar with.
Here's the rub, the original inserts are just not available so we'll
either have to use the ones we have available or give up the project,
something we'd just rather not do. We'd like proceed with this project
but need your input to figure out if its worth the huge amount of
effort we'll have to put into these.
We need about 50 guys interested to go forward with the project. I
think you'll get a gorgeous PF with the correct colored inserts but
they will have a more modern look. But anyone in the know would be
able to tell it from original.
Opinions?
Thanks
Mike Purcell
www.classicplayfields.com
seymour...@excite.com
> Hey Guys;
>
> We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
>
I'll still buy it even with the newer style insert. Heck if you offer
the rescreening service I'd send you my field also to get rescreened.
If it's that or not made at all....... No chance of getting the old
non-faceted style and I'll assume that the tooling/molds were
destroyed for the octogon type.
Weren't some playfield produced with the starburst style even older
like flash?
-scott CARGPB#29
p.s. are these going to be sold through IPB or can be bought direct
now?
Mrhide
> So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
> or not at all. We need about 50 guys to buy these before we can break
> even so We need to get a feel for how many guys would take these with
> the modern inserts...
> Now is the time for your input.
>
> Thanks
> Mike Purcell
> www.classicplayfields.com
I'll buy the modern inserts over nothing at all IN A HEARTBEAT !
Count me in ! Where do I send my money ?!
Phil ( who's having issue breathing since he's so happy )
http://mrhide.pinnesota.org
Mike Purcell
When Pilgrim Plastics went out of business in the mid 80's everything
disappeared. I asked around and made quite a few calls to guys who
should have had some insight and no one had any insight. I looked into
having the molds remade but the costs are scary, especially with us
making so few PFs.
The starburst designs according to the guys I talked to were from
another company with both companies trying to make an insert that
diffused the light filament more efficiently. In the end the faceted
design lost out.
These would be available directly from us which really should improve
service and convenience for everyone. Not having to hold the entire
lot till the end makes the project more exciting and easier on us as
well. This also allows us to spot problems early on and repair them as
we go. Making all the PFs at once which we had to do the last time
means its harder to improve our quality as we go. Truthfully though we
are getting better and the improvements we are making now are smaller
each time. Still though it does help in the end.
Thanks
Mike
www.classicplayfields.com
Mike Purcell
Thanks for the support, if we get enough guys wanting these we'll go
ahead and order the inerts and proceed with the project. If the
support is high enough that we figure we can sell all the PFs once
they are made then we'll just go ahead and make them and they'll be up
for grabs when they are done.
If the demand is lower than we hoped we'll have to take the prorder
and ask for a deposit of $50 which will be returned if the project for
any reason does not proceed.
So please no money yet as we are just trying to get a rough idea of
what qtys of materials we'll need to order to make enough PFs.
Thanks
Mike
Dale Smola
> So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
> or not at all. We need about 50 guys to buy these before we can break
> even so We need to get a feel for how many guys would take these with
> the modern inserts...
>
> Now is the time for your input.
>
I'll be more than happy to take it with the newer style inserts. If
you offer the rescreening service on originals, I'd do that too.
When can we send the money in?
Dale Smola (the other Dale)
BWAGNER5150
Newer inserts are just fine here, too. How much will the playfields
be?
Ben
Mike Purcell
There is quite a bit more wood involved (about 1/3 more) which means
about 1/3 more cutting and all the extra work that is involved. But we
will still drill and dimple each PF as always and will give nice new
clearcoat, not as thick as the last ones but still as nice. Price
should be no more than $550 even with all the extra work. We are
trying hard to keep the prices down and refusing to fall into the
route of adding costs for each step extra we do that some others are
trying to do (ie - drilling, dimpling, clear coat, etc)
Mike
MIKE PAYNE
Id say Id still take one. But the jeweled inserts would be the cat's
meow... Black Knight isnt the only machine that used these inserts
tho. I think they used jeweled inserts way on up with other pins... If
the inserts you use are gonna be the same look w/o the jeweling, im
ALL in. That would be fine. I just couldnt see regualr red inserts
working :(
One thing I ask, I beg of you. Dont use 20,000 coats of clear on
these, that clear on the Centaur was way way way overboard looking. It
looked like a wall hanging and not a playfield.
BWAGNER5150
Sounds great to me! Thanks for the reply. Will you also be doing HH
playfields as well? :-)
Ben
anthony...@gmail.com
> Sounds great to me! Thanks for the reply. Will you also be doing HH
> playfields as well? :-)
Yes and HH backglasses also! What's happening?
rel...@gmail.com
What I'd like is a way to have the original inserts from my existing
playfield put into a new playfield; THAT would rock, since, in
actuality, all I need is some touch-up work done on the top half.
Also, Flash did not have the starburst inserts -- the semi-trans were
untextured. Textures didn't arrive until Black Knight showed up, with
its gem-face inserts. Pity there's no way to reproduce them without
it costing an arm and a leg.
--*relayer;
anthony...@gmail.com
Here's an idea - since you are putting inserts in by hand, maybe some
people would pull out their own from trashed BK fields, send them to
you with payment and you could put them in the field you send them. I
know that's more stuff to keep track of, but that'd be the ultimate in
customer service.
Classic Playfield Reproductions
your question. I am just waiting on Steve Young's & Gottlieb's go-ahead.
They received their sample glass on monday.
-
KEVIN WAYTE
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com
<anthony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176848329....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Chris Evans
>So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
>or not at all. [...]
>
>Now is the time for your input.
I'd prefer that you listen to your poll results and make Xenon playfields.
Chris Evans
>One thing I ask, I beg of you. Dont use 20,000 coats of clear on
>these, that clear on the Centaur was way way way overboard looking. It
>looked like a wall hanging and not a playfield.
Agreed.
And for the Love of God, could you folks finally make sure your blue
inserts are *ACTUALLY BLUE*?
RazerX
Rob
Mike Purcell
> On 17 Apr 2007 13:10:21 -0700, Mike Purcell <M...@ClassicPlayfields.com> wrote:
>
> >So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
> >or not at all. [...]
>
> >Now is the time for your input.
>
> I'd prefer that you listen to your poll results and make Xenon playfields.
Chris;
We are still waiting for the artwork from IPB, we've been waiting for
many months but I they are very busy. The last time one of us spoke to
them they were still trying to get time to have the artwork copied and
sent. In the mean time we decided to make another very popular choice,
Black Knight. This does not mean we won't or can't make Xenon, its
just that we rather make Black Knight now and Xenon later if/when the
artwork arrives. We just don't want to wait forever for the artwork
for Xenon.
Thanks
Mike
cody chunn
fields. I must have misunderstood.
--
-cody
CARGPB4
"Mike Purcell" <Mi...@ClassicPlayfields.com> wrote in message
news:1176853573.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
MarcelG
>
> Chris;
>
> We are still waiting for the artwork from IPB, we've been waiting for
> many months but I they are very busy. The last time one of us spoke to
> them they were still trying to get time to have the artwork copied and
> sent. In the mean time we decided to make another very popular choice,
> Black Knight. This does not mean we won't or can't make Xenon, its
> just that we rather make Black Knight now and Xenon later if/when the
> artwork arrives. We just don't want to wait forever for the artwork
> for Xenon.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
Mike, please just keep bugging them. I have a feeling IPB is simply
stalling on their efforts, and I don't know why. Copying films just
take a few business days.
Marcel
Mike Purcell
I know, and they are good people. Gene has alot on his plate and they
are very busy for sure. We just can't wait for Xenon forever so
decided to do Black Knight. It wasn't a deliberate effort on our part
but one where many things came together. We had one of our own RGP
pinheads make this artwork and he did a super job so we decided to use
it. Its nice to see guys who want something take an active part in the
hobby. And he'll do very well in helping us out on this project. Like
to see more guys who want to help and have the skills to do so and
besides I'd rather compensate fellow pinheads!
Thanks
Mike
MarcelG
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike,
I hope your right on the money on IPBs efforts. Anyways, I wouldn't
mind a BK playfield with starbursted inserts. Better something than no
pattern at all.
Marcel
Mark Williams
one offered for Centaur, in addition to purchasing a new field.
"Mike Purcell" <Mi...@ClassicPlayfields.com> wrote in message
news:1176840786.3...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Chris Evans
>We are still waiting for the artwork from IPB, we've been waiting for
>many months but I they are very busy. [...]
>We just don't want to wait forever for the artwork
>for Xenon.
Makes perfect sense. Thank you for the clear and quick response.
Chris
original BK NOS fields (as yet to be installed) with the cool faceted
inserts. Thanks for continuing these playfield efforts!!!
Chris
"Mike Purcell" <Mi...@ClassicPlayfields.com> wrote in message
news:1176840621.0...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Marc W. Howard
> Hey Guys;
>
> We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
>
near future???
Marc
JDix
> New inserts will do just fine. I'd also use a rescreening service like the
> one offered for Centaur, in addition to purchasing a new field.
>
>
> news:1176840786.3...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hey Guys;
>
> > We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
>
> > However, there is some thing we need some your input on. We have the
> > artwork and its super, we have the wood, we have the inks...... he's
> > the catch. We cannot get the original style inserts.
>
> > Pilgrim Plastics was contracted in the 80s to design an insert that
> > would diffuse the filament so it could not been seen directly through
> > the insert. The faceted design they produced for BK was a failure and
> > it just did not work as they thought it would. The pinball companies a
> > short while later had a new design made, one we are all familiar with,
> > the starburst design that is basically still used today. So there is
> > the rub. We can get and use the newer starburst designs but there is
> > no way the originals can be had at any cost.
>
> > So would you guys prefer we make the PFs be made with modern inserts
> > or not at all. We need about 50 guys to buy these before we can break
> > even so We need to get a feel for how many guys would take these with
> > the modern inserts...
>
> > Now is the time for your input.
>
> > Thanks
> > Mike Purcell
>
> - Show quoted text -
How about avoiding these insert problems all together, scrap BK, and
go for BK2000? Hopefully those lightning inserts could be found. As
we know BK2000 playfields are all thrashed too.
Stewie Caines
I'd prefer the look of the original too, but if its not possible then
something is definitely better than nothing.
Would also be interested in the rescreening process in future.
Stewie
Retrogameconnection
Mike,
So glad to hear that you are going to be doing this. I'd definately
buy 1 maybe 2 fields. Would also consider doing the re-screen
service. Thanks!
Steve
N|co
but, i would say the prior is Black Knight 2000 ! all fields are dead.
And it is a Black Knight fan who says that (i prefere the 80
edition ). YOU NEED TO SAVE ALL BK2000 ;) else if you have free time
BK80 playfield are fine ;)
Nico (France)
TMFP
Classic Playfield Reproductions
will take 100-150 hours to complete what's there for all three levels.
Meanwhile, the original films *could* be available in the basement of
Gottlieb Development amongst the thousands of tubes of films stored
there...nobody knows. We need to fly down in person to find out for
ourselves sometime...the invite has been accepted long ago, and nobody else
is going to do the search. Until I know for sure, I am not proceeding on
completing repro artwork. If in the end no factory HH artwork turns up,
then I know 100% there is only one other choice - artwork redux. Consider
HH playfield set "shelved" until this is ascertained. With the buyers list
for the playfield set being "OK" to "just feasible" in number, it's still
something I'd like to see done, but it's not going to jump to the forefront
when we have BK in a 100% ready to go stage, with no worries of enough
orders to justify the run.
-
KEVIN WAYTE
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com
"Marc W. Howard" <foobar_ma...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:f0432...@news4.newsguy.com...
Chad Tower
The insert issue isn't all that relevant to me. What is relevant to
me is that my BK has a beat to crap playfield worn down to the wood in
too many places. I have been hoping you'd get to BK sooner than
later. I would be in for a playfield and possibly for a rescreen of
my existing playfield as well depending on cost.
Mike Purcell
It just won't be possible to do a rescreen afterwards like we did on
Centaur as we just don't have enough screens to keep the artwork all
at once so the labour becomes crazy. We have in effect borrowed the
artwork from someone and the guy wants it back, I t would takes months
to do this afterwards so its just no possible.
Thanks
Mike
blub...@gmail.com
I would definitely be interested in 2 playfield sets.
PinballMoxie
> tho. I think they used jeweled inserts way on up with other pins
Jungle Lord also used Jeweled inserts.
I'm not aware of any games besides BK and JL that used Jeweled inserts
throughout the entire game (or even used partially within the PF
layout).
ibsnipin
going to be used. That is a *major* charateristic item on the
playfield. That was the one thing on the pf that drew me to that
game... even more then the artwork. I bought the last Jeff Elie
overlay, but I've been holding off installing it to see if BK repro
playfields would become available. Now that they are, and now that I
know of the likelyhood of different inserts will be used, I'm
considering scrapping my interest in a repro pf and using the
overlay. I just can't fathom what the playfield would look like
without the original 'jewel type' inserts. That game is a jewel and
the inserts certainly fit that game!
I emailed CPR and asked why the original inserts would not be
used and he told me that the molds had dissapeared and that it would
cost about $20,000 to make a new set. If CPR were to sell 150
playfields... which I'm sure they can, that would add roughly $134 to
the cost of the playfield, which I would be more than happy to pay!
That would be cheap compared to what one of these playfields would go
for on eBay. Probably in the thousands! Not only that, but there are
at least three games I know of that use faceted inserts. Black Knight,
the forementioned Jungle Lord and Pharoah. Should CPR decide to do a
run on either of those pfs, they will have the proper molds for the
inserts.
The only thing that I'm wondering about rescreening my playfield
is that would it be possible to re-tint the original inserts to their
proper color? The redness in the bonus lamps from about '4' up to '40'
have lost most of their tint. They are almost orangish in color
instead of a deep red. As far as CPR being worried about not having
the artwork, I would be willing to loan them my overlay if they can do
a ultimate touchup on my pf.
BWAGNER5150
way overboard.
Would it be nice to have the original jewel-look inserts? YES - sure!
Did all BK's have jeweled inserts? NO!
Is it great that there's a company out there remaking a great classic
- YES!
Would it REALLY suck if people who whined like you drove manufactures
to closing their doors? YES!
< If CPR were to sell 150 playfields... which I'm sure they can, that
would add roughly $134 to the cost of the playfield, which I would be
more than happy to pay! >
YOU may be willing to pay an extra $150, but assuming 150 others will
is completely ignorant. Do YOU know what their projected sales
numbers are? Are YOU the one taking a $20,000 financial risk just for
one game's proprietary inserts? It's very easy to whine....not so
easy to make great repro playfields.
Keep up the great work, CPR!
Dr. Dave
then why not just take them out of the bad "donor" playfield and have
CPR not install the newer type in their new field for you and not
clear it for you? That way you could put the original ones in the
new playfield yourself and have it clearcoated elsewhere.
That's what I'd do if I was going to buy one of these.
DR
ibsnipin
the one thing I really liked about the pf. It seems that I would be in
the minority here, but I would suggest holding off on the pf until you
can get molds made. If new molds were to cost $20,000 and if you had
at least 150 playfields spoken for (which I'm sure that would be no
problem!) that would add about $140 to the cost of the playfield...
which I would gladly pay! That would be cheap compared to what an
original BK playfield would go for on eBay! Not only that, but Jungle
Lord and Pharoah also use the same faceted inserts, so if you should
do a run on either of those games, you could get your money back for
sure.
If you're not going to offer a playfield with the original
inserts, could you at least offer the rescreening service? If you're
worried about artwork, I happen to have an unused Jeff Elie overlay
(which I have a funny feeling that you also happen to be using the
same overlay for your artwork). I would be willing to loan out my
overlay to you guys if you can give my playfield a good touch-up with
it. You would of course be welcome to use it to rescreen other pfs as
well.
Mike Purcell wrote:
> Hey Guys;
>
> We are getting ready to launch our new PF project - Black Knight!
>
mar...@pacbell.net
Thanks,
Mark.