Photos of Costco BDK
mikeo
figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
by the crane.
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
Mike O.
Team-EM
JimB
riggy469
Thanks for the pics!
John Dayhuff
> $3299???? what a deal, NIB, sweet.
WOW, Killer price. I'm heading that way right now.
John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836
honda350r
That game is way different . They took out the right top wire ramp and
lots of other small changes .
Jim
Troy
I get the basic business concept of doing it. Make it so it can only
be HUO so ops can't use it. Remove some coin mechs, etc., and cost
down it so you can justify to distributors/ops that they aren't being
undercut price wise for the same machine. Try to present it to the
consumer at a lower price with some cost reductions, etc. Keep the
main toy (crane, in this case) and discard anything less important.
I don't think it will sell to collectors in significant quantity --- I
think too many of us want the "real deal". So, it's strictly a play
for the consumer that wants to own 1 pinball machine for a rec room
with a theme they like and 1 cool toy. Not sure I see it working
out, but I understand the idea. If I were them, I would probably try
it too. You have to see if you can create demand for your product or
get out. Still, I prefer Pat Lawlor's idea --- do something
"different" and "creative" that people haven't seen before and is neat
but doesn't cost a fortune. I think Pat was thinking of different
smaller scale versions of P2K reflective images, etc. that could be
done that would still seem high tech. In my view, if you can't
innovate, you are in trouble.
Troy
mattyb
That's just depressing. The regression continues.
MattyB
Brian Munn
Yeah if you like the taste of vomit..... Zizzle plus....
Brian
Detroit Pinball
Rare Hero
Thanks Mike, great pics. Looks like the spotlights are gone, too.
That's just ...bizarre. Some effort went into cheapifying the
game...that's an all new ramp..., some new plastics, including ones
that combine the gadgets feature into the new ramp situation.
Greg
kbliznick
Looks like they moved the upper right mini pf weapon switch and lights
over to the new left side mini pf/ramp.
They even kept the batmobile and moved it to the upper left corner.
ScottinSGFNY
That things stripped - they could save more money by not including
legs - you can set it up on concrete blocks to match the rest of the
machine.
J Pinball
Thanks for the pics,
hope they start selling discount pins in Canada at Costco!
I think Stern & Costco should make it clearer it's a value home
edition.
The sign is misleading saying Authentic Arcade Unit and could
anger buyers who find out missing items later.
Tell them up front would be best.
Hope it works out!
Trying to think
what they could leave out of Spiderman,
and LOTR to get the price to $2999 :)
Tom G
I really don't like it. I spend the extra cash and get the real deal.
appetite4pinball
Thanks for the pics! If the software is basically the same (minus the
absent joker drop target), it may not be too bad? I never really
cared for the joker can, teeter totter, and upper pf anyway. I just
wonder how well that left ramp flows? It looks kind of hacked
together. If there's only going to be 48 made, it may not be a bad
buy from a collect-ability stand-point?
-Mike
PinballBuyer
Mike
Rare Hero
> Trying to think
> what they could leave out of Spiderman,
> and LOTR to get the price to $2999 :)
Spidey:
-No Magnet
-No moving toys
-No Sandman target bank
-No upper flipper (turn left ramp into only Venom ramp)
LOTR ....I'm not even gonna go there cuz they'd never do it
anyway. :)
Greg
jfp2673
looks like the joker drop target assembly was removed for a green
insert, really making the game too easy
appetite4pinball
> Do you think George Gomez helped with the "redesign"?
>
> Mike
There's a pic of George Gomez on Facebook looking over one of these
very games. He definitely had a part in the re-design.
-Mike
Rare Hero
> Do you think George Gomez helped with the "redesign"?
Yup.
Greg
mattyb
I pity the fool who buys one of these. Especially when they find out
they bought a bastardized version of another game. These things will
be selling for 1500 after a year.
I'm sure we can thank Sterns new investors for this abomination.
For every dime they put in, they take out a dollar.
MattyB.
Rare Hero
> Thanks for the pics! If the software is basically the same (minus the
> absent joker drop target), it may not be too bad? I never really
> cared for the joker can, teeter totter, and upper pf anyway. I just
> wonder how well that left ramp flows? It looks kind of hacked
> together. If there's only going to be 48 made, it may not be a bad
> buy from a collect-ability stand-point?
> -Mike
OK, being objective - you're probably right...it's probably a decent
playing game that is pretty much going to have the same rules.
Gameplay-wise, seems like these will be the main changes:
-Seems like it'll be way easier to collect the gadgets w/ the mini-pf
concept being combined into one ramp shot.
-Joker multiball will be much easier to start without the drop target
Even though I'm not a huge fan of the Bridge or Joker reveal either -
I don't like knowing they were SUPPOSED to be there. Even though they
don't really have much gameplay function, I've grown to like that bit
of "flash" from the Joker thing spinning or the bridge moving to send
the ball over.....and I like that the ramp shot might bring the ball
to the left or the right.
Oh well...it'll be interesting to see if anyone in RGP land is going
to go buy one of these.
Greg
BoJo
They did a lot more then just removing a teeter-totter and joker can.
They completely redesigned a lot of the PF. So cut costs on the IM
and regular BDK by using plastic aprons and ribbed shooter rod
supports, then put that money into making a cheaper BDK for Costco.
Glad to see this is their focus. So much for being innovative.
mattyb
Stern has now forsaken both Ops and homeowners. Their only real
customer now is the investors. I'll save my money for Gene Cunningham.
MattyB.
Lloyd Olson
"mikeo" <mi...@dmwcc.com> wrote in message
news:6726535a-247c-4eba...@42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Borygard
So it seems to me that this would be BDK if it was made under the current
Stern instead of a couple of years ago when it was first made for the movie.
I guess I'd need to play the game before really making a final opinion on
it, but for now I don't like it at all.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
"mikeo" <mi...@dmwcc.com> wrote in message
news:6726535a-247c-4eba...@42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Pinballpark
All of that cost cutting and they still installed the side rails with
protectors that they dumped from IM.
> > Team-EM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rare Hero
> So it seems to me that this would be BDK if it was made under the current
> Stern instead of a couple of years ago when it was first made for the movie.
...and it's totally putting this thought into my head:
Costco Batman vs. Iron Man. If you compare both games from a cost
perspective:
-Both have 3 action figures
-Both lack drop targets
-Both have 1 moving motor driven toy
-IM has 2 ramps, but CBDK has a scoop
-IM has magnets...but I'm sure at the end of the day the cost of
building each of these games is about the same.
So - why is Iron Man about $1000 more than BDK?
I know it seems like I'm being sour cuz I just bought BDK and
IM....nah, whatever...no regrets and I anticipate having tons of fun
w/ my games. ...but c'mon, how can I NOT think about this?! ;)
...now if Costco gets an Iron Man for $3299 ....I think a lot of us
will be super fucking pissed. That's the potential backlash w/ this
Costco thing, if it continues w/ other games. Why would collectors
buy a NIB coin-op game any more?
Greg
Rare Hero
> Funny,
>
> All of that cost cutting and they still installed the side rails with
> protectors that they dumped from IM.
Hah! Maybe they don't want to risk finger-wear on a game that might
sit on display at Costco for a while.
Greg
freeplayer
Just imagine a Spiderman home version, no Venom ramp or shot, Sandman
just a stationary toy, no shot, no movement, no Doc Oc magnet, remove
3rd flipper, standard shooter rod...bingo. Spiderman where you
been...home edition $2,995 NIB
Pinball Life
Ha! Bingo.
Terry.
freeplayer
Answer: because it's not distributed by Costco...to be fair, Iron Man
is coin operated so you need to compare to Sears BDK at $4,699, still
$500 less money, not bad for a new release. You do raise a good
point, Iron Man offered at Allentown for $3,900 plus tax, figure $700
mark up. Costco could probably sell 200 Iron Man pins easily $3,699
all day.
c2
I don't think it sour grapes at all. IM is a lot of fun, but its
always looked like a $3K machine. The comparison you made seems
consistent with that opinion.
Rare Hero
> I don't think it sour grapes at all. IM is a lot of fun, but its
> always looked like a $3K machine. The comparison you made seems
> consistent with that opinion.
Yeah....that's why I didn't jump on it right away...I didn't want to
"reward cheapness"by buying an Iron Man...but man...I love the theme,
I think it looks really fun, I love the music and sound, and I was in
one of those "I want it and fuck it I'm just gonna go get it"
moods...THEY GOT ME! ;) So, like I said...no regrets. I'm going to
have fun w/ it. :) It is what it is!
Greg
c2
I'm in much the same boat as I enjoyed playing it and know it would
look really cool next to BSM.
Its a tough call, but for me, just can't justify the cost with so much
seemingly missing. Having said that - since you've already taken the
plunge - I say forget the BS and enjoy playing the hell out of your
new game(s). Only live once.
-Craig
Mike
Given this, is there a reason this version has to be a $5000 machine
in $3000 clothing? I mean, does a "new" pin have to have every bell
and whistle on it to make the rich guys happy? Seems to me much of
this hobby is made up of non-DMD playing pinheads who may actually
consider this price point and this less-is-more playfield. Sort of
reminds me of Space Shuttle and yet nobody say that machine needs an
upper playfield and siren toppers? And working the math from a
different perspective: $1000 for a classic popular non-DMD pin that
needs to be resoldered by people that have NO experience working on
boards. Add in another $500-$1000 for either repro plastics, repro or
NOS backglass and other shop part replacements. OR, buy a BNIB BDK
with a revamped playfield and have the security of a warranty and also
something that does NOT smell like a bar.
How many coin mechs do you need on a HOU machine anyway? Looks like
ONE is the optimal number.
So what if 10 years from now it goes for $1500...you can bet the
people buying it won't care. And there will be very little to confuse
it with the more bell and whistled version...
I see Stern doing what they can to introduce NEW people to the
hobby...that's a good news item right there.
Scylla
I'm with Rob. This looks awful. Gomez must be sick looking at it. I
almost wish I hadn't looked. Blech ir whatever they used to say in Mad
magazine.
Daniel Tonks
I'm not sure I get what you're getting at. The issue as I see it is that
this $3000 pin looks like the latest $5000 pin, not that people expect the
$3000 pin to have what a $5000 pin SHOULD.
- Dan
Mike
My point is that it sounds like a lot of guys are posting about this
NOT being a $5000 version of BDK (ok ok, $4400 at Sears, I get it).
But if you look at it from the pinheads who CAN'T (or won't) afford a
True BDK pin for 4-5k, then this lower entry point for a very similar
game may be just what the doctor ordered. As I said, if you compare
this Costco version to pins from the 80s and 90s, what's so bad about
it? Add in a warranty and easy purchase from Costco (don't forget the
rebate if you use a 2% membership card) and this MIGHT still represent
a very good playing pinball machine at price point that makes it looks
risky to buy a $2800 USED pinball machine...
Daniel Tonks
>
> My point is that it sounds like a lot of guys are posting about this
> NOT being a $5000 version of BDK (ok ok, $4400 at Sears, I get it).
> But if you look at it from the pinheads who CAN'T (or won't) afford a
> True BDK pin for 4-5k, then this lower entry point for a very similar
> game may be just what the doctor ordered. As I said, if you compare
> this Costco version to pins from the 80s and 90s, what's so bad about
> it? Add in a warranty and easy purchase from Costco (don't forget the
> rebate if you use a 2% membership card) and this MIGHT still represent
> a very good playing pinball machine at price point that makes it looks
> risky to buy a $2800 USED pinball machine...
Oh, I think as a home market machine it's probably one of the better
efforts. You certainly get more than a Vacation America, which I think
streeted at $2800 back at a time when NIB Sterns were $3500 or less. Still,
it would probably do better at $2999, but I don't know if it's even possible
to get them that cheap.
But regardless, this is a big jump in playfield cost reduction, and as
collectors we're going to complain about something like that, especially
when we have a perfect A/B comparison to see where it's all been taken out.
This will also create future confusion in the resale market. When you see a
BDK advertised for $3000, which one are they talking about? Are people who
buy the $3300 version going to think their machine is actually worth $4500?
I mean they're all coin-op Stern Batmans.
- Dan
Mike
wrote:
It's not your job to worry about what future sellers will try to get
for their machines. Think of it from the other side...some family
member will inherit an original BDK and off it on CL for the price of
a Costco version. Good times for sure. Besides, us down on the lower
end all got screwed by PAWN STARS on EM machines. It's about time DMD
machines received their due. Heck, this may lower the value of all DMD
machines. More pins for more people! (Just kidding on this last
part)...
DugFreez
Sears into doing a price match for a full featured BDK?
freeplayer
Well the Operators and Distributors could be taking a back seat here
if this BDK launch sells out, and it probably will. Stern could
produce new home version titles in the future with exclusive marketing
and distribution through Costco, Walmart, Target, Sears. Stern could
build the games cheaper, move them faster and still market a coin op
version for location use, route operators.
Looks like Stern is truly testing the home market measuring it against
it's current distribution network. It's very easy to compare when you
have two very different BDK versions, but what if a new pin was just
released to Costco with no previous model to compare it to, could be a
hit and stand on it's own merit. I say build Avatar similar to this
new BDK, place it just in Costco and watch it take off.
freeplayer
> I'm wondering if anyone unintentionally or intentionally duped
> Sears into doing a price match for a full featured BDK?
Now you can't be serious bringing up the subject about duping Sears.
Do you believe that someone will brag on a public forum about screwing
Sears out of an original BDK. What's that old Steve Martin skit on
SNL. Naaaaa.
freeplayer
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Mike O.
> Team-EM
by the way...awesome pictures, just noticed in pic 8 that it's labeled
as an Authentic Arcade Version by Costco...really? since when can you
walk into an arcade and play pinball for free.
freeplayer
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Mike O.
> Team-EM
I meant to say Authentic Arcade Unit
thaiisl...@yahoo.com
I don't like it at all. This is now truly just a one ramp wonder
machine. At least with the mini pf and the diverter on top it felt
like it was a two ramp machine to me. Plus I like the mini pf on BDK
much more than the POTD on LOTR. The rules must really be dumbed down
on this machine. No, I don't like it at all.
Randy
firepower
this reeks. The layout doesn't make sense to me anymore.
Be glad they haven't got designers like Lawlor or Ritchie involved with
this type of game layout. They would be so limited in what they were
allowed to do. It would be like putting a heavyweight fighter under
contract, and then before he gets in to the ring breaking his right arm.
I would rather buy a TZ or a ST:TNG for the money and get some toys!
-Richard
Joe Jet
I agree with this as well... i think they really should create two
versions of the same game... look - there is already that other
pinball company in Spain..
When that Spanish company showed up everyone was raving - now stern is
doing the same thing and people bitch? Stern is trying to experiment
with competition for their own brand. I think the informed people
will still want the "real thing" and some informed ones maybe simply
dont want all the detail of the real thing and will be happy with the
price.
Unless Stern cannibalizes their own product line (which apparently
they will not as these cant be coin-op) they are simply expanding
their reach. Who would be in a better position than to create a cheap
alternative to stern that was cost effective and attacked a new market
than stern? No one.
eagle68
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Mike O.
> Team-EM
I take a little different approach here. I think you have to put on
the business hat and take off the hobbiest hat. I think it's terrific
for the hobby to get pinball machines in Costco so kids/parents who
are not collectors, who don't hang out in bars can actually see/play a
new full size pinball machine. Once again, we are not the target
market, and I personally don't like the cheapened version, but I think
it's a great idea to offer different levels. I would recommend 3
levels, the stripped down Costco version, ops version and a collector
version. Three audiences, three offerrings with three price points.
Think about the sheer exposure of having a pinball machine in these
large box stores (Costco, Sam's, maybe even Walmart), simply for
exposure. It's an entry level machine, some folks will buy this and
throw it down in the basement for 10 years with the pool table, etc,
others will really like it and may get interested in the hobby thus
bringing a new group into the hobby to keep it thriving. I say nice
job Stern on the strategy/exposure, we now just need an over the top
"Collector Version" (preferrably sold direct from Stern) with more
toys, bells and whistles. Just my 2 cents.
Kerry Imming
>
> - Show quoted text -
The only issue I see here is the lack of differentiation in the name.
Whether this confusion was intentional can be debated all day.
Whether Stern does it or not, we need to have a unique name for this
machine. BDK-VE (Value Edition)?
- Kerry
gpsdrew
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Mike O.
> Team-EM
Thanks for the pics.
What a complete TURD!
:(
Drew
TheKorn
5a93d0...@42g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
Personally, I don't understand all the hub-bub.
Stern took off a part of batman that pretty much nobody likes (the PoTD).
They took off a part of batman that was fucking retarded (the see-saw),
and they took off a part of batman that from the looks of it can be added
right back in should you want to (the joker drop target).
About the only thing I can see being mildly annoyed by is removing the
joker can. But I can see a mostly empty can any day of the week just by
going down and rummaging through a city park's trash!
Maybe I'd have a stronger negative reaction if I liked the original
batman game / layout more. Since I think it's pretty "meh" to start out
with, removing parts that were fairly universally panned when the game
came out doesn't seem like a big foul to me.
I think if you like the original and are on a budget, this might not be
all that bad.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the
web or on DVD?
Adm56
To me the problem is going to be that it's still not exactly cheap!
Way better than the $4500 that is out of reach for 95% of folks for
this sort of thing? Sure...but $3200 is probably still out of reach
for 80% of the population. Not exactly mainstream pricing here.
Mike
BDK3K
Mike Schudel
>BDK3K
How about: CBDK or BDK Lite
Although nobody will confuse a POTC with a zPOTC, I'm sure 5 years down the
road someone will think the CBDK Lite machine they have is the real deal and
worth every penny as the regular BDK. Of course this is a RARE
machine...only 1 of 48 ever made! rare Rare RARE! :-)
--
Mike S.
Kalamazoo, MI
Gameroom: http://tinyurl.com/yxzavc
W C S Owner's List: http://tinyurl.com/8ua2n
Gameroom Video: http://tinyurl.com/y8vmz6k
Brian
> Personally, I don't understand all the hub-bub.
It's the new meme here on RGP.
BBH becomes known and everyone goes into a hissy fit, but once the
game comes out, people seem to like it. Iron Man photos come out and
everyone blasts how it's just Austin Powers in red and gold trim, now
people seem to love it.
> I think if you like the original and are on a budget, this might not be
> all that bad.
It's not bad for people who are not in the hobby. For those who think
Barbwire and Waterworld are awesome games. I sometimes think people
here need to do a few service calls and see what the true population
thinks of pinball. To 99% of the population, this game will be
awesome.
-- Brian
BoJo
It's not like people who did not want to pay $4500 are going to run
out and now drop $3200. That still is a lot of money and doubt
parents are going to tell their kids "sure you can have one for your
birthday." Plus, after taxes you are better off just paying a few
extra bucks for a nice HUO BDK. Seems like most first time buyers
just look to Craigslist or ebay first for pins anyway. The last few
games I sold on Craigslist were actually to first time buyers. Maybe
I will be proved wrong by Stern and hope that is the case, but it
seems the passion is no longer there with the new management and they
just want to stay afloat.
Instead of trying to create something new and innovative that will
attract peoples attention they decide to sink their money and time
into making a cheap version to appeal to the home market which for the
past decade they claimed the never cared out. Well, they totally
skipped over the collector market because I doubt any collectors who
will want this version. And once people realize the machine they got
is not the same as the one they played at the local arcade they will
feel cheated as well. Their display makes the "common" person, which
is the target audience they want to sell these machines to, think they
are getting the real deal and that is shady advertising if you ask
me. Say all you want about it's the buyers job to do their homework
but they are in no way advertising this as a home model machine and
stating the differences.
My vote is we call is BDK CE for Cheap Edition (or Costco Edition)
mattyb
All good points but I couldn't recommend this game to anyone. Firstly,
the resale value will be nil. Buyers are going to lose their ass on
this game. Secondly, original HUO BDK's (with metal apron and
rails)are available for the same price. Thirdly, with a budget of
3450(including tax), there's too many other vastly superior games to
be had.
Home model pins is Stern's way of screwing the ignorant masses. :(
MattyB.
Rare Hero
> I don't think these are going to be flying off the shelf at $3200.
> It's not like people who did not want to pay $4500 are going to run
> out and now drop $3200. That still is a lot of money and doubt
> parents are going to tell their kids "sure you can have one for your
> birthday." Plus, after taxes you are better off just paying a few
> extra bucks for a nice HUO BDK. Seems like most first time buyers
> just look to Craigslist or ebay first for pins anyway. The last few
> games I sold on Craigslist were actually to first time buyers. Maybe
> I will be proved wrong by Stern and hope that is the case, but it
> seems the passion is no longer there with the new management and they
> just want to stay afloat.
I hate to defend this thing, but you're thinking like a pinball
collector. I think this experiment is for people who haven't even
THOUGHT about pinball in 20 years. People who don't know what HUO
means, or that you can buy a nice used pinball off CL - which is more
of a chance encounter than a sure thing, anyway. This is for people
who don't even know anyone makes pinballs anymore. They're going to
Costco to shop for groceries or TVs or whatever, and will be exposed
to something they didn't know existed.
I dunno, after a day of reflecting on this, maybe it's a decent idea.
They're just experimenting right now w/ these few machines...I guess
we'll see what happens.
Greg
Rare Hero
> All good points but I couldn't recommend this game to anyone. Firstly,
> the resale value will be nil. Buyers are going to lose their ass on
> this game.
You'd totally buy a used one for $1500 though.....c'mon. I think
ANYONE here would and not complain a bit. ;)
>Secondly, original HUO BDK's (with metal apron and rails)are available for the same price.
Oh yeah? Where? I would have bought one of those if I could. Since
the new code release, collectors aren't selling it.
Greg
Mike
Nil? Really? Nil?
Nobody has explained why this machine will not sell...to MOST people,
they will see a ramp, some targets (drop targets are so old school
anyway) and bumpers and flippers. Oh, and there's a crane thingy.
They'll think hey it's a pinball machine. Cool. By definition, if they
already KNOW what the original game is like, they will be IMMEDIATELY
aware of the differences so no big deal there. If they have not seen
the original BDK, they probably never will. Again, no problem for
those folks. What's so WRONG with this machine that no one has
apparently even played yet? Sounds like another BBH tempest in a
teapot all over again. Never underestimate the power over buying
something NEW versus buying something USED. For many folks, that's a
non-starter.
Brian Munn
> On May 27, 9:07 pm, Rare Hero <rarehero...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 27, 9:00 pm, c2 <tx_slings...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > > I don't think it sour grapes at all. IM is a lot of fun, but its
> > > always looked like a $3K machine. The comparison you made seems
> > > consistent with that opinion.
>
> > Yeah....that's why I didn't jump on it right away...I didn't want to
> > "reward cheapness"by buying an Iron Man...but man...I love the theme,
> > I think it looks really fun, I love the music and sound, and I was in
> > one of those "I want it and fuck it I'm just gonna go get it"
> > moods...THEY GOT ME! ;) So, like I said...no regrets. I'm going to
> > have fun w/ it. :) It is what it is!
>
> > Greg
>
> Given this, is there a reason this version has to be a $5000 machine
> in $3000 clothing? I mean, does a "new" pin have to have every bell
> and whistle on it to make the rich guys happy? Seems to me much of
> this hobby is made up of non-DMD playing pinheads who may actually
> consider this price point and this less-is-more playfield. Sort of
> reminds me of Space Shuttle and yet nobody say that machine needs an
> upper playfield and siren toppers? And working the math from a
> different perspective: $1000 for a classic popular non-DMD pin that
> needs to be resoldered by people that have NO experience working on
> boards. Add in another $500-$1000 for either repro plastics, repro or
> NOS backglass and other shop part replacements. OR, buy a BNIB BDK
> with a revamped playfield and have the security of a warranty and also
> something that does NOT smell like a bar.
>
> ONE is the optimal number.
>
> So what if 10 years from now it goes for $1500...you can bet the
> people buying it won't care. And there will be very little to confuse
> it with the more bell and whistled version...
>
> I see Stern doing what they can to introduce NEW people to the
> hobby...that's a good news item right there.
You have to be sniffing glue to think this would be worth $1500 a day
after buy it... Under a Grand.... with in a year... $500 in 10
years...
Brian
Detroit Pinball
DesignerJpop
it would be nice to see a lower price...like $2499....for a full size
pinball game.
John
Mike
Meh - I don't have a dog in this race. Pinball is supposed to be fun
on many different levels. For me, I am a SS/EM guy. But it sure is
interesting seeing the pushback from existing owners of BDK. Again,
this machine is not marketed to you guys. Get over it. Lobby Stern to
build a $10k BDK...
mattyb
> On May 28, 6:54 am, mattyb <mdbri...@sentara.com> wrote:
>
> > All good points but I couldn't recommend this game to anyone. Firstly,
> > the resale value will be nil. Buyers are going to lose their ass on
> > this game.
>
> You'd totally buy a used one for $1500 though.....c'mon. I think
> ANYONE here would and not complain a bit. ;)
Seriously, if I had room for a thousand pins I wouldn't have this
imposter.
> >Secondly, original HUO BDK's (with metal apron and rails)are available for the same price.
>
> Oh yeah? Where? I would have bought one of those if I could.
With a little patience you could have found one but I understand the
urgency.
> Since the new code release, collectors aren't selling it.
True, but that just goes to show us that the majority of pin buyers
are pinheads and not Costco shoppers making spontaneous purchases.
Stern has a distributer network reaching over 1 billion people and all
they can sell are a few thousand machines per year. The public has
spoken!
MattyB.
Voltherd
Personally, I have no problem with this, as long as it's clear during
a future transaction what version of the machine we're dealing with.
From these pictures it's clear that a photograph of the playfield will
tell all, eliminating confusion in a moment. So all it needs is a name
to differentiate it from the real BDK. I personally see it as BDK-Jr,
of the same birth, but a little younger and less sophisticated than
its parent, BDK.
I am not offended by it. It's not a crappy Zizzle or Tomy toy, it's
clearly a real pinball machine.If I came into a friend's house and
found it in their basement, in playable condition, I'd play the hell
out of it and give them a high-five for having a pin in there for me
to play with. That's what pinball is supposed to be, a fun time! It
looks like fun, even if it clearly isn't a real BDK but BDK-Jr.
I also applaud Stern's attempts to reach a larger pinball audience.
Lots and lots and lots of people could see, touch, hear, and play this
machine. I'm constantly amazed by people who play my machines in my
basement and say things like, "Whoa, look at that-- its got pictures
on the score display!" now a 20 year old feature, or "Wow, this thing
talks and plays music," a 30 year old feature. You, my fellow
RGP'ers, are the pinball luminaries. The majority of the world's
population are pinball illiterati but might like to know more, and
play more, and perhaps might even spend some money on a game, given an
adequate introduction. Costco is a place to reach out to them. I
hope it succeeds, because that means more pinball for everyone.
Ron Lyons
> Barbwire and Waterworld are awesome games. I sometimes think people
> here need to do a few service calls and see what the true population
> thinks of pinball. To 99% of the population, this game will be
> awesome.
>
> -- Brian
I agree. I have a lot of older SS pins, people love them. I just
sold a Millionaire, the guy loved it. He thought the speech was SO
COOL! Personally I thought the game was a dud, but this guy was
thrilled with it. Now granted a lot of my older ss pins are probably
a hell of a lot better than a stripped down BDK, but even games that
aren't that great people like because they're a pinball machine and
they haven't played one in years. To someone with the funds, there
won't be anything at all wrong with this game.
mattyb
>
> Nil? Really? Nil?
Ok, I exaggerated. Not nil but close enough.
After five years of reading RGP daily I've yet to see a poster seeking
out a home model pin.
Zero demand = Zero resale.
> Nobody has explained why this machine will not sell...to MOST people,
> they will see a ramp, some targets (drop targets are so old school
> anyway) and bumpers and flippers. Oh, and there's a crane thingy.
> They'll think hey it's a pinball machine. Cool.
Because $3450 is alot of money and someone who's not really into
pinball is going to have a hard time justifying it.
>By definition, if they
> already KNOW what the original game is like, they will be IMMEDIATELY
> aware of the differences so no big deal there.
I predict one or fewer RGP'ers buy it because all that missing stuff
is a big deal.
>If they have not seen
> the original BDK, they probably never will. Again, no problem for
> those folks.
But surely some of them will learn of the real deal and they may feel
decieved.
> Never underestimate the power over buying
> something NEW versus buying something USED. For many folks, that's a
> non-starter.- Hide quoted text -
I prefer to buy new but why would any knowlegeable person with 3450 to
blow want their first NIB experience to be this malformed econoball?
This pin is made specifically for the clueless. It's hard to do but I
think Stern has overestimated the gullibility/stupidity of the general
public. :)
MattyB.
appetite4pinball
I agree. I think if you put one of these cost-reduced BDK side by side
with a brand new IM for the general public to play inside a Costco, i
doubt hardly any of them would know which pin was the cost reduced
version. The Costco BDK even has the benefit of having the better toy
(crane) and deeper software. I don't see what the big fuss is all
about.
-Mike
Brian
> I don't think these are going to be flying off the shelf at $3200.
> It's not like people who did not want to pay $4500 are going to run
> out and now drop $3200. That still is a lot of money and doubt
> parents are going to tell their kids "sure you can have one for your
> birthday."
You would be SURPRISED. Working in a game-room store for a year really
opened my eyes about how much money people do spend. We had one guy
come in and drop ~3k on Strike Xtreme because his daughter liked
soccer. His son was a huge Terminator fan so he got him a T3 for
Christmas.
> Instead of trying to create something new and innovative that will
> attract peoples attention they decide to sink their money and time
> into making a cheap version to appeal to the home market which for the
> past decade they claimed the never cared out.
Well they *could* do both, but I agree with you. I'd rather see more
(any) R&D and try some new things.
At least they trying something though, so who knows, maybe it will
lead to something?
> Well, they totally
> skipped over the collector market because I doubt any collectors who
> will want this version. And once people realize the machine they got
> is not the same as the one they played at the local arcade they will
> feel cheated as well.
Unless these people have die hard pinball friends, they will never
know. Furthermore, if they do bitch, just show them the version at
Sears which costs 1200 more. All they will see is the cabinet, dmd,
crane, etc and say "1200 more for that stuff?"
My only fear is that if it DOES work, Stern will get even cheaper on
their normal coin-op games. I fully expect a game without ramps soon.
Brian
AAPIN
necesarily targeteg at the home market.
It has a coin slot, and Costco sells vending machine and other items
targeted at the business owner...I think this is a simplified, lower-
cost machine for a route operator or bar owner.
Besides that, the only built a very limited number to test reaction.
This doesn't mean that Stern is going down this path for good. It
could just be a sign that they will be offering two levels of each
machineo - a "stadard" and a "premium" for the collector. Let's not
all panic....yet.
Rare Hero
> I agree. I think if you put one of these cost-reduced BDK side by side
> with a brand new IM for the general public to play inside a Costco, i
> doubt hardly any of them would know which pin was the cost reduced
> version. The Costco BDK even has the benefit of having the better toy
> (crane) and deeper software. I don't see what the big fuss is all
> about.
The big fuss is - should those of us who bought Iron Man's feel like a
bunch of assholes for spending what we did? LOL ;)
Greg
appetite4pinball
Greg,
I don't think you should feel bad at all about splurging on a NIB IM.
The measure of a game isn't how much money it cost to build and the
number of toys/ramps. If that were the case games like RS, DM and JD
would be selling for huge money! IM is a lot of fun, and has a great
license and art/sound package!
Now if Costco released a price reduced version of IM that was the same
game as what is out there now, then I would be upset! Enjoy your new
games!
-Mike
Hunty
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Team-EM
I see a mysterious black spot in front of the ramp; maybe the Joker
drop target has been replaced by a magnet? That would be cheaper, and
quite possibly even cooler than a drop target! If that's the case, and
if they replaced the teeter-totter nobody liked with a more-LOTR-like
bat-gadgets bagatelle, and got rid of the coffee can, is there
anything else actually missing?
What if -- and I'm going way out on a limb here -- but what if this is
a test run of the new DE-FACTO BDK? I've read a lot of BDK discussions
here on RGP, and the major points have been:
it needs a code update
the teeter-totter is superfluous
the coffee can is superfluous
Otherwise, BDK has gotten a lot of love, and meanwhile, people have
also been singing the praises of the magnets on SM and IM. Stern has
been talking a lot about cutting costs, and Gary Stern specifically
mentioned in his expo speech that BDK had too many toys. He also
mentions that magnets are a great, cheap way to add more randomness,
and people seem to really like them.
So, now this test run of 48 machines appear. They have a MAJOR code
update (which is, of course, also compatible with the original version
of the playfield) that everyone loves. They toss the teeter-totter and
the coffee can, and they (if that black dot is what I think it is) add
one of those cool magnets in lieu of a more expensive and less cool
drop target. If nothing is missing besides the expensive features
nobody really liked, then this version is BETTER than the original, at
3/4 the price!
Now think about that "what if" for a minute; think about the
possibility that this represents Stern listening to the players and
the ops and the collectors, and doing everything they asked, while
ALSO cutting costs AND passing on that savings to the buyer. Get out
of the mindset of "ITS BORKEN CUZ IT'S MISSING STUFF I DIDN'T LIKE
ANYWAY!!!" and think of this more in terms of a new revision of a
piece of software; like a new version of Word that runs better than
the previous version and gets rid of Clippy.
If this machine completely replaces the original version of BDK from
here on out, what would you think of that?
Kerry Imming
> It's hard to do but I think Stern has overestimated the
> gullibility/stupidity of the general public. :)
That, sir, is not possible. :-)
Kerry
mikeo
games are listed for sale. This Costco resides in close proximity
(within two miles) of one of the wealthiest areas in the state of
Kansas. My 17 year old can name three or four friends who have
pinballs in their homes, most of which are late model or HUO games.
These are not hobbiests like ourselves so the level of quality that
exists in this version of BDK is going to be more than adequate. So
the philosophy of marketing these in this area/location is not lost on
me. I'm curious which stores will get these, if not all Costco's will
get an allocation, and how they were selected.
Mike O.
Team-EM
Ron Lyons
I have no gauge of what the profit or expenses are that are involved
in all this; to me 48 seems like chump change, surely they're not
making (Stern) more than 48 grand profit out of these, but I guess
every little bit helps. I guess when it comes down to it, Stern
isn't really all that big-time of a company. If they're selling 3000
of a new game, at 1 grand profit a pop, that'd be what 3 million
profit per title, two a year, 6 mill profit a year sounds pretty
good. Why would they be so worried about 48 grand? I guess it truly
is a test to try to go much bigger next time around.
Rare Hero
> I see a mysterious black spot in front of the ramp; maybe the Joker
> drop target has been replaced by a magnet?
Nope. The black spots are where the old ramp hardware used to be.
The new ramp has been moved back a bit.
Greg
Lloyd Olson
"freeplayer" <fclan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f41cbf8d-999a-458d...@c22g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Lloyd Olson
drill more holes to let the water out ? LTG :)
"mattyb" <mdbr...@sentara.com> wrote in message
news:bc334447-cb11-4126...@z17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
MHS
Couple of things here...
1st, the new game looks like crap compared to the old one. Too much
empty space.
2nd, the joker looks ridiculous enough on its own, but at least the
can makes some sense that you have to reveal him.
3rd, the upper playfield has a functional purpose, both during regular
play and multiball. During multiball, you can park balls there to
save a few seconds. During regular play, it's the single hardest
insert to complete before getting to the wizard mode. By eliminating
the upper playfield, you significantly reduce the difficulty of the
game.
4th, the drop target missing is gigantic. What was once a major non-
controlled shot now becomes a controlled shot. Again, the game is
much, much, much easier because of this.
The best part of batman is the crane... but it's not the only part
worthwhile, and not everyone dislikes the teeter and upper playfield.
I get what stern is doing by trying to sell to consumer market (not
collector), but I think you're making the mistake of thinking this
game could compete with the real deal, and there's just no way that's
possible. By removing the items they've removed, whether you believe
they're superfluous or not, Stern has changed the gameplay strategy
and difficulty drastically.
appetite4pinball
It looks like they moved the ramp back and filled in the hole where
the wiring comes up. It doesn't appear to be a magnet. It also looks
like the drop target hole was either filled with a plastic material or
replaced with a green insert. I definitely don't think this version
will be better than the original, but if it is 85% as good for 75% of
the price that wouldn't be a bad thing.
The bad news through-out all of this is that it appears that the
Costco Batman is the reason that Stern brought George Gomez back,
instead of bringing him back to work on the next game? My guess is
that the next game will be another John Borg game, which isn't
necessarily a bad thing given the success of IM and BBH. but it would
have been cool to see another Gomez design!
Mike
ScottinSGFNY
the Real one and the Costco one?
I bet maybe $100 tops??
I would say they could have shipped the real one to Costco, sell it
for the same price as the Stripped version (Save on costs for the
slight redesign) and make the same profit.
Why didn't they? Because they would anger everyone from the
distributors to the collectors that already bought them at the higher
price, and they are still selling them currently to distributors.
They won't do it on a future release title either to maintain the
extra profit they get from the Distributors vs. what they sell it to a
warehouse club for.
Anyone agree - or am I just plain wrong?
ScottinSGFNY
gpsdrew
:)
Drew
seymour.shabow
It wouldn't surprise me if Stern kept the stripped design and
re-released BDK to the distribs......
I don't think they really care about angering collectors, and $100 per
unit saved in manufacturing is actually a lot.
-scott CARGPB#29
freeplayer
It's easy to miss the big picture here. Stern needs to
survive...Sales and Marketing 101. The Big Box Stores will display
Stern Pinball to millions of shoppers who normally would never have an
opportunity to see or play a Stern pinball machine, on freeplay,
surrounded by hundreds of other people catching a glimpse of the
excitement. Costco alone has 415 stores in the US X thousands of
shoppers per day, that equates to showing the product to every
Hobbyist on rpg on your lunch break.
I do believe that rgp, Betson, Pinball Sales, Automated Services,
Brady, plus all the other distributors nationwide play a very
important role in the pinball community. If you add all of us
together we could never expose the hobby to the public like Costco
can. If you surveyed every person leaving Costco, Sams Club, Sears,
ask if they ever heard of Stern Pinball, rgp, or if they ever played a
BDK, 90% would answer no.
So great job Stern for taking the initiative, marketing the hobby to
the rest of the world who have never heard of rgp, BDk or even
pinball, seems like Mike Reimer at Stern knows his stuff and is on the
right track. IMHO
mr tobias
> I agree, not good for pinball. The original BDK game had some merit,
> this reeks. The layout doesn't make sense to me anymore.
>
> Be glad they haven't got designers like Lawlor or Ritchie involved with
> this type of game layout. They would be so limited in what they were
> allowed to do. It would be like putting a heavyweight fighter under
> contract, and then before he gets in to the ring breaking his right arm.
>
> I would rather buy a TZ or a ST:TNG for the money and get some toys!
>
> -Richard
>
> On 28/05/2010 08:55, thaiisland2...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 27, 11:14 pm, freeplayer<fclandp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On May 27, 9:52 pm, mikeo<mi...@dmwcc.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> >>> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> >>> by the crane.
>
> >>>http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> >>> Mike O.
> >>> Team-EM
>
>
> > I don't like it at all. This is now truly just a one ramp wonder
> > machine. At least with the mini pf and the diverter on top it felt
> > like it was a two ramp machine to me. Plus I like the mini pf on BDK
> > much more than the POTD on LOTR. The rules must really be dumbed down
> > on this machine. No, I don't like it at all.
> > Randy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
So this is what BDK might have looked like if the leaner, meaner Stern
had commenced six months or so earlier. The disquieting thought for
prospective Iron Man purchasers is what would that game have looked
like if it had been produced before this leaner, meaner Stern was
born.
The new investors may have saved Stern, but what exactly are we left
with? Well maybe it's better than no pinball production at all, but
for some of us at least it looks as though our initial fears are
proving well founded. The bean counters have taken over the show.
Lloyd Olson
"mr tobias" <john_...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5934cf1f-9936-4a3b...@q33g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
PT
> On May 27, 9:52 pm, mikeo <mi...@dmwcc.com> wrote:
>
> > Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> > figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> > by the crane.
>
> >http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> > Mike O.
> > Team-EM
>
> be HUO so ops can't use it. Remove some coin mechs, etc., and cost
> down it so you can justify to distributors/ops that they aren't being
> undercut price wise for the same machine. Try to present it to the
> consumer at a lower price with some cost reductions, etc. Keep the
> main toy (crane, in this case) and discard anything less important.
> I don't think it will sell to collectors in significant quantity --- I
> think too many of us want the "real deal". So, it's strictly a play
> for the consumer that wants to own 1 pinball machine for a rec room
> with a theme they like and 1 cool toy. Not sure I see it working
> out, but I understand the idea. If I were them, I would probably try
> it too. You have to see if you can create demand for your product or
> get out. Still, I prefer Pat Lawlor's idea --- do something
> "different" and "creative" that people haven't seen before and is neat
> but doesn't cost a fortune. I think Pat was thinking of different
> smaller scale versions of P2K reflective images, etc. that could be
> done that would still seem high tech. In my view, if you can't
> innovate, you are in trouble.
>
> Troy
PT
> be HUO so ops can't use it.
I think they got it backwards. A stripped down game would probably do
just as well on location, but not with home users. The average Joe
Sixpack playing in a movie theater or bowling alley would never miss
the removed features, but the home collectors will. If you are going
to lay out 4 digits for a toy to put in your home, why not buy the
full version? Lets face it, the average home buyer of NIB pins is not
poor. Ops on the other hand would love a thousand dollar+ savings
knowing that the game will probably make them the same coin.
John
Daniel Tonks
I think the problem is there's just not enough of those existing not-poor
NIB pin buyers to go around. So they want to try to expand the market to
people... less rich?
- Dan
mattyb
>
> news:5934cf1f-9936-4a3b...@q33g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > The new investors may have saved Stern,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wouldn't call this saving either. More like damnation to pinball
hell. :)
MattyB
twilightzonepinball
> Here they are. And I was mistaken with my earlier post regarding
> figurines on the playfield. There is the Joker, Batman, and the guy
> by the crane.
>
> http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/Costco-BDK
>
> Mike O.
> Team-EM
I liked the teeter-tooter. I was thinking adding a light kit so you
could see the car and it would be cool.
This looks like a Zizzle the Dark Night, as in a dark night for
pinball.
-Tom
http://home.myfairpoint.net/vze8f4tt/tomstwilightzonepinballmachineaccessories/index.html
Rare Hero
wrote:
> I liked the teeter-tooter. I was thinking adding a light kit so you
> could see the car and it would be cool.
What did you have in mind? Maybe one of those cointaker LED strips?
Greg
badbilly27
"If Stern put out a game at around $3K and stripped just a little bit
I would buy it....." was SOME of the comments. I think John P even
posted a thread on pricing many of you commented on. Now Stern does
it and foul is called. LOL.
As long as Stern calls this "Home Edition" so a buyer, whether random
shopper or aspiring pinhead, knows this one is slightly different than
those on location I see no harm (don't think they did that but hope
they change that). Unless they are trying to get that small business
owner to try coin op (didn't look close at pics on coin box). I
wouldn't buy it but then again I'm a collector - not the intent of
this offering. I like the experiment in marketing here.
Think about it. Most people who are not in the hobby have to go to a
rec room type store and get ripped on pricing or ebay/craigslist IF
they are shopping specifically for home gameroom toys. Now they go to
Costco and in some cases save up to $2K (Yes check some of these rec
room type stores pricing). Seems to be working for home popcorn
machines why not try pinball. Too early to tell if it will or won't
work - but for all the critiques on RGP in the past on Stern not being
creative or trying new things in marketing - don't look now but they
are.
Brian Munn
I have 4 words for you:
Internet - 90%+ of buyers of a big ticket item have internet access
and are very familar with a computer
Google - 90%+ of buyers of big ticket items have used search engines
Research - Generally buyers of big ticket items now do searches on
reviews and data regarding said items. Which I am sure will lead them
to RPG.
Evaluate - Based on the data they gather on the internet will greatly
infleunce their decision.
Stern doesn't get it, they compete against the past as well as the
current and future. Costco may expose them to Pinball but their
research will likely lead them to another direction.
Brian
Detroit Pinball
Steven
>
> Internet - 90%+ of buyers of a big ticket item have internet access
> and are very familar with a computer
>
> Google - 90%+ of buyers of big ticket items have used search engines
>
> Research - Generally buyers of big ticket items now do searches on
> reviews and data regarding said items. Which I am sure will lead them
> to RPG.
>
> Evaluate - Based on the data they gather on the internet will greatly
> infleunce their decision.
>
> Stern doesn't get it, they compete against the past as well as the
> current and future. Costco may expose them to Pinball but their
> research will likely lead them to another direction.
>
> Brian
>
> - Show quoted text -
OK, according to you, the mission has succeeded with the 'other
direction': there are new customers for pins, though they'll buy the
full version because of their investigation, either new or HUO. :)
No, seriously, I don't know what the succes will be, but I think
having a larger exposure can only be good, even if it's a cut-down
version. I think none of us, including Stern, can see how succesfull
this will be. That's why it's called a 'test'. If it fails, in 10
years some of us will buy that 'only 48 produced strange cut-back
version of BDK' :).
I hope it succeeds, though I do hope that Sterns statement that, next
to pinballs like these, full-version pinballs will continue to be
produced (and designed), will be true.
PS: I don't think Gomez has just returned just to design a single ramp
and to fill up some inserts. That would be very lame and not so cost-
saving. So I think he'll (co-?)design a new game.
goatdan
> ...now if Costco gets an Iron Man for $3299 ....I think a lot of us
> will be super fucking pissed. That's the potential backlash w/ this
> Costco thing, if it continues w/ other games. Why would collectors
> buy a NIB coin-op game any more?
Because the two games are still totally different?
I don't understand why everyone is having a cow about this. The
person in CostCo buying a $3300 pin isn't a teenager or 20-something
year old dropping coin on route. It's probably a late 30s or 40s
person who isn't that into pinball and wants one for his basement.
And this totally fits that bill. It's way simpler -- not to piss us
all off, but because stuff won't break. I mean, seriously -- the ONLY
moving part is the crane. No drops, no ramp thing, barely anything
that can go wrong for the person that doesn't want to learn how to
repair and restore these things.
I wouldn't doubt that some ops would go for these, but I'm betting
that Stern won't put them out for a long time after the first version
of the game (like this -- it's been what, almost two years?) and so
the price difference is fair. Looking at the playfield, they removed
nearly everything I thought was dumb and then removed some other
stuff, but that freaking crane is still in there.
For everyone screaming that they need to innovate, I don't understand
why people don't see a $1000 price reduction in a market that they
haven't tapped as not innovating. How about they stick a TV in them
and remake something like LOTR, but call it Revenge of the Rings!
That sort of innovation worked really well for Williams after all.
This is calculated innovation, that looks like it is being done
without a ton of risk. I'm really curious to see if it works or not.
I'd LOVE to play one of these to check it out.
As for it not being as good as the original, yup -- definitely not.
As for it working for the casual dude who wants a pin that they can
afford and that won't break down in their basement -- seems like a win
to me.
goatdan
> I don't think these are going to be flying off the shelf at $3200.
> It's not like people who did not want to pay $4500 are going to run
> out and now drop $3200. That still is a lot of money and doubt
> parents are going to tell their kids "sure you can have one for your
> birthday." Plus, after taxes you are better off just paying a few
> extra bucks for a nice HUO BDK. Seems like most first time buyers
> just look to Craigslist or ebay first for pins anyway. The last few
> games I sold on Craigslist were actually to first time buyers. Maybe
> I will be proved wrong by Stern and hope that is the case, but it
> seems the passion is no longer there with the new management and they
> just want to stay afloat.
>
> Instead of trying to create something new and innovative that will
> attract peoples attention they decide to sink their money and time
> into making a cheap version to appeal to the home market which for the
> past decade they claimed the never cared out. Well, they totally
> skipped over the collector market because I doubt any collectors who
> will want this version. And once people realize the machine they got
> is not the same as the one they played at the local arcade they will
> feel cheated as well. Their display makes the "common" person, which
> is the target audience they want to sell these machines to, think they
> are getting the real deal and that is shady advertising if you ask
> me. Say all you want about it's the buyers job to do their homework
> but they are in no way advertising this as a home model machine and
> stating the differences.
First off, how many people out there do you all think know how to buy
from distributors? I bet if you walked up to nine out of ten people
at the Midwest Gaming Classic, they couldn't tell you who the local
distributors that have pinball machine are. Hell, *I* don't know who
they are. But I bet at least nine out of ten people will have heard
of a Costco.
As for people being angry they just bought a machine that was
different then their local arcade, do people in this group really
believe arcades still exist? If so, newsflash here, they don't. If
the estimates of the original machine selling 2000 or less units, and
let's assume that half of those are on route in the US, and they earn
$50 / week which would be a great take, that means there are 100,000
plays on a BDK pin in an average week, so that means that 1/3rd of
1/10th of 1% of the US population plays a game on a BDK in a week. Or
one in every 3000 people plays the game.
So again, the Costco population, that perhaps hasn't seen a pin in
years and doesn't intimately know their local op or feel comfortable
buying a really complex machined used from someone they don't know
sees this here machine at Costco and decides that he can buy this one.
And BoJo, you're right -- most first time buyers look at eBay or
Craigslist right now because where else are you going to get games
at? The options really have been buy used or don't buy at all. *No*
other store has featured a pinball like this in store. And the
likelihood that someone is going to see this after playing the other
one and be angry that it isn't identical I think is almost nil --
however, the people who see this and think, "Wow, a pinball machine!"
and then look into dropping coin next time they are out -- that is a
MUCH larger population.
I've long been very critical of Stern's promotion of the machines, and
point to Roger Sharpe who turned down the original Batman licenses
because they wouldn't put pictures of the machines on cereal boxes.
Stern needs to get the mainstream to see their games again, and I
think that the nostalgia factor and uniqueness of the game will catch
on. Pinball isn't dying because it needs innovation and people are
bored of it, it's dying because you can't find it almost anywhere
anymore. Finding it, playing it, and thinking about it -- that is a
GREAT first step for promotions.
I'm *all for* this game. The only complaints I can see people having
are that it doesn't have a different title, but what did you expect,
Stern to call it, "Batman Pinball: But Cheaper!" Stern is watching
out for who they need to be watching out for. This is a GREAT product.
goatdan
> Stern has a distributer network reaching over 1 billion people and all
> they can sell are a few thousand machines per year. The public has
> spoken!
What the hell are you talking about? Unless you are saying that route
operators can cater directly to the public, or if you're saying anyone
with a computer could buy from Jack. Otherwise, you seriously think
that 1 billion people know they can walk into a distributor and buy a
pinball machine? That means one of every 6 people on earth needs to
know this fact.