I talked to Gene last night at The Houston Expo about Wizard Blocks
brokenvette
he wont redo BBB because it will lower the value of the ones people
already have. :( 2 I asked him about Wizard Blocks and he said that it
should be in the works right after Kingpin there will be 4 levels( not
the correct word) we will be able to buy. He said he is going to
announce it today at his seminar. Thats exciting to me. WB seems like
a cool pin to have.
If you already know this or I have gotten facts wrong sorry. I was up
till 3:00 AM
Oh he did tell me that Rick bought Wayno out and if I'm not mistaken
they were already working together on some projects.
JJJ
along, please post back.
-Julius
Steven
info.
Robert Somerdin
Correct me if I am wrong, Gene has NOT actually taken any Kingpin
deposits yet.. Correct? I am on the list but I haven't been following
up.. Thanks..
extraballin tmc
anybody have any idea when kingpin will start production and deposits
will be collected?
azpinlawyer
That's correct, Rob. I'm waiting, too--KP will complete my Capcom
collection.
Vegemite Nick
few weeks) that Robert Winter maintains mentions that Gene told
someone a few days ago that the deposit request will do out in a few
weeks. http://www.robertwinter.com/pinball/kingpin/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45
Tom G
MetalPin
I'm sorry if this has been covered since the end of July, but did Gene
officially get as many preorders as he wanted or would he still
consider additions to the list? I would probably get my name into the
pot now if possible. It's a great game, plus I'd like for it to be a
success to keep the projects rolling.
Michael
llabrevlis
I had a brief conversation with Gene at PPE, and he pretty much told
me the same thing, Kingpin first, then WB. The reason it may be very
quiet on the KP front right now is that Gene is on the road, PPE, then
Vegas, now Houston, next his show in Chicago. Once he is finished
with the traveling, I expect things will heat up!
Dale
Robert Somerdin
I am 90% sure he is still allowing people to go on the list.. At $7000
it's a smaller crowd than Big Bang Bar. Although I just got my BBB so
that's another story..
Robert Somerdin
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you!! That is awesome Greg!! You mentioned you had all the
titles. The guy I just bought my Cactus Canyon from asked me if I
would be interested in his Pinball Magic too so for NAVLs additional
$10 shipping charge how could I resist!! They are arriving Tuesday..
Can't Wait! I think my psychiatrist appointment is Wednesday.. Haha
metallik
> It's very cool if does Wizard Blocks but isn't it an unfinished game?
I played it at his place once.. it is quite fun, but definitely
unfinished. The question being, will Gene try to get it finished (it
will need art, music, programming), or ship it as-is? Finishing it
will cost lot of money, which might make the project too expensive
for a lot of people.
I'd buy the unfinished version as a kit for my P2K cab, but doubt I'd
buy a whole game unfinished. If it does get finished, and done right
(quality work), it could be a real kickass game.
Retrogameconnection
>
> - Show quoted text -
What is NAVLs additional $10 shipping charge?
Robert Winter
Shipping 2 machines instead of 1 I believe. I thought it had gone up to
more than that but I guess I'm mistaken.
Robert
-----
http://robertwinter.com
frenchy
> > I played it at his place once.. it is quite fun, but definitely
> unfinished. The question being, will Gene try to get it finished (it
> will need art, music, programming), or ship it as-is? Finishing it
> will cost lot of money, which might make the project too expensive
> for a lot of people.>>
Sounds like a lot of stuff is missing for me to ever want to buy one.
Plus if it was finished, it would have to be finished well by somebody
that knew what they were doing and not just some programmer that knew
how to write P2K code.
But heck there are probably some Williams crazies out there who would
buy a Wizard Blocks remake if it just had a whitewood pf and all it
did was boot up and go into an attract mode.
SaBbRa CaDaBra
I asked him how serious he was
> about not reproducing BBB and he made it clear he has no intention of
> messing with the game's value by even producing enough spare parts
> that people might be able to piece one together. He was quite proud
> of the high aftermarket value of BBB.
Does he have more of these games in storage or something? Why would
he be concerned about the value if all of his original units are sold?
Why not make more, sell them at the current HUO price of ten grand
(which could be the new NIB value), and recoup the cost of his first
run?
SaBbRa CaDaBra
> But heck there are probably some Williams crazies out there who would
> buy a Wizard Blocks remake if it just had a whitewood pf and all it
> did was boot up and go into an attract mode.
Haa, that's funny!!
RomulusX
Is Pat Lawlor too busy?
Frank Gigliotti
Gene is a man of his word. It cost him dearly to produce BBB. He took the
loss because he was going to do what he said for the cost he said without
turning around. He respects the people that believed in his vision and
bought into it. Thus, he wants to protect their investment.
"SaBbRa CaDaBra" <generalem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6961f27f-fdf6-4b96...@t7g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
SaBbRa CaDaBra
wrote:
> One reason - INTEGRITY.
I shouldn't ask a question to which I already know the answer.
What I am meaning to understand is if Gene originally said he would
only do one run and done with no possibility of further runs or if
this is something he decided after selling all of the run. It seems
as if demand is there, and it seems as if he could benefit from
selling more, so I'm wondering when he made that deal.
Expat
wrote:
Well the obvious answer is that demand isn't there.
You gotta few people carping for one but balking at 10K fer like new/
HUO
So how many more exactly are gonna pay 7-8K for a new one????
I'd guess less than 25-30 at that price so its not even remotely
feasible to make it profitable for another run
He can blather all he wants about protecting the original buyers
Fact is that there is NO demand for a second run at least one he could
make $$$ on or would even be worth the time considering.
Captain Neo
> My impression is that Gene loves pinball. He's not in it for the
> money. He's already got plenty of money. He really enjoys the people
> in the community and contributing. But he's also a businessman, and
> any good businessman wants to cover his expenses and make a profit.
> But Gene is "old school" ethnical. He's not willing to profit at the
> cost of his reputation or by turning on those who have supported him.
> Yes, he may have lost $300k making BBB, but to him, his reputation and
> the respect he has among people in the industry is worth far more.
Don't kid yourself tho. Gene doesn't give money away either. He will
not drop prices and hard to deal with. He'd rather sit on it forever,
than drop the price and move it. he's got plenty of money for a
reason. He's tight with it. he's not going to go into something
knowing he might take a loss again. He does love pinball, but loves
money more.
seymour.shabow
> My impression is Gene never made any "deal" one way or another. He's
> just the type of person who wouldn't even consider screwing people
> over to make a buck.
>
> By the way, I also asked him about the LED ROM code, and he said that
> anything Wayne might say is irrelevant (and if push came to shove he
> can overrule anything formally). He has no problems whatsoever with
> people distributing modified ROM code to address LED ghosting issues.
Anything Gene says about ROM code is irrelevant too, as WMS retains the
copyrights on those..... but at least he would go to bat for the people
that want it - if one licensee says "quash anything" and the other says
"allow this" at least there's a tie vote.
-scott CARGPB#29
SaBbRa CaDaBra
> My impression is Gene never made any "deal" one way or another. He's
> just the type of person who wouldn't even consider screwing people
> over to make a buck.
Hold on. If Gene never made a deal one way or another then how could
he be screwing people over by producing more games? The original
buyers got their games for the price posted. More games being
produced would seem to me to just be sprinkling more pins into the
landscape; a good service to the hobby. These games are getting
tossed around at a huge markup to the original price, while Gene is
sitting in the red. Let the man make some games I say. Nobody is
getting screwed and if you think you are then you're just a flipper
anyway. Speak about integrity. Tell a man not to sell some games so
you can get top dollar for your investment. Git Real.
Mighty Chris
wrote:
Well I think the man is going to make some games--- different games,
which he hopefully will make a profit on. He'll take what he learned
losing money on the BBBs and make it up on other ones. No need to go
back and make more BBBs and piss a bunch of people off, making them
and others less likely to buy in the future, when he can just make
different ones.
mnpinball
What's the best way to get a hold of you Chris, you never answer your
email.
And it's a business email at that !?!?!
seymour.shabow
It's really only protecting the people that didn't even originally buy
the game from Gene.
I think it might be a case of "been there done that" as to why to not
make more BBB games. Concentrate on NEW titles. Just because Stern can
make a short run at the same time as another run doesn't mean PMI can.
-scott CARGPB#29
SaBbRa CaDaBra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Let me be clear. If Gene ever wanted to produce another run of BBB I
would support him. I do not think it is fair, nor the slight bit
courteous of anyone to imply that Gene would be subject to anger from
someone or some people who bought a first run had he the desire to
produce another run. A shame to see such a pillar of our hobby
metaphorically fettered.
Mighty Chris
The important business stuff goes through my wife's email, hehe. I've
just been so swamped for so many weeks I haven't caught up on mine.
Mebbe I do that today and shoot you my phone number because thats the
most reliable thing these days.
Thanks for being interested in trying to be in touch with me! Sorry I
missed your last get together (was outta town.)
Chris
Bryan Kelly
although it's too late. Charlie and Andrew are on their way home
already. ;-)
Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
On Oct 10, 1:10 pm, Mighty Chris <axe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> The important business stuff goes through my wife's email, hehe. I've
> just been so swamped for so many weeks I haven't caught up on mine.
> Mebbe I do that today and shoot you my phone number because thats the
> most reliable thing these days.
>
> Thanks for being interested in trying to be in touch with me! Sorry I
> missed your last get together (was outta town.)
>
> Chris- Hide quoted text -
goatdan
> he be screwing people over by producing more games?
Here's my guess at the real reason...
With the BBB remakes being sold for double-ish what they cost buyers
to make, it makes it look like a phenomenal deal for any of those
original buyers. The secondary market on those games are huge. If,
however, he reproduced BBB to make it so that the secondary market for
the game was less than whatever he charged for the second run of the
games, that is suddenly a huge dis-incentive for a lot of people to
buy Kingpin or Wizard Blocks or whatever at full price.
How many people on these boards consistently say they will never buy
Sterns NIB because they can buy HUO in a couple months and save $500-
$1000? Having a similar dynamic with Gene would really make him run
the risk of being stuck with a bunch of machines, or not being able to
make a run large enough to make money. Make no doubt about it --
Kingpin is NOT going to be as popular as BBB because it doesn't have
the mystique, it isn't as good of a game, and people already know that
Gene can make it if he sets his mind to it.
Rerunning BBB would only further degrade the market for KP. He
doesn't want to hurt the investment that the first run owners had
because it would equally hurt him to do so. Simple as that.
Oh, and WB may be a totally different story if / when he does it. If
it is being set up as four different kits, it may be one that he runs
more than enough to meet demand. I'd buy a WB even if it is
incomplete if they price isn't crazy. My option, if they have it,
would be to buy everything as a kit (hopefully, with wiring harness
already made) and build my own game. That would be a huge attraction
to me.
Robert Somerdin
> On Oct 9, 3:16 pm, RobertSomerdin<rob...@somerdin.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, azpinlawyer <gregda...@mail2lawyer.com> wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I just had a pin shipped from California to Florida and the seller
offered me another pin which I added on to the shipping order. When I
called NAVL they only charged me an additional $10 for the additional
pin.. It is not a set amount but it only slightly higher than shipping
one pin. In my case $10.
epthegeek
Given Pat's previous comments on finishing wizard blocks, it'd cost
too much money to have him work on it.
It would be kind of a shame if it gets made in an unfinished state,
just as a collectors piece. But if it gets made as a full finished
game I'd absolutely want one.
MetalPin
I've never played either (unfortunately), but I've heard quite a few
people say Kingpin is a better player than BBB. I know one person who
owned one of the Kingpin prototypes and sold it years ago. He said of
all the prototypes he's owned (many), he would want to seek that one
out again because of how fun it was.
Michael
goatdan
I have been lucky to play both, and I definitely thought that BBB is
better, and in general when talking about them both, it seems like
practically everywhere I have seen those conversations take place,
people have agreed with that. I can't account for everyone's taste
though -- Heck, I like VND more than practically every other game ever
made, so clearly I'm a little cracked compared to "normal" people.
someotherguy
>On Oct 10, 12:44 pm, SaBbRa CaDaBra <generalemailacco...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>> Hold on. If Gene never made a deal one way or another then how could
>> he be screwing people over by producing more games?
>
>Here's my guess at the real reason...
Beyond the ethical perspective that most of us recognize...there's the financial
perspective, too. The economy of scale at the number he made previously could
not support the price he sold them for. He lost money. Now a few people, far
less than bought the original re-run of the machines, want one - how much do
they really think it would cost to build a smaller number of them? Do they
really think they can buy a very-limited-run BBB for $7,000? Not gonna happen.
So here we have another great reason for Gene to not make more: the potential
untapped "market" appears to be FAR smaller than the previous run of buyers.
Some people just don't get business, just like they don't get morals/ethics.
Some people really don't get it when the rare combination of both occurs.
Richard
Vegemite Nick
> Don't kid yourself tho. Gene doesn't give money away either. He will
> not drop prices and hard to deal with. He'd rather sit on it forever,
> than drop the price and move it. he's got plenty of money for a
> reason. He's tight with it. he's not going to go into something
> knowing he might take a loss again. He does love pinball, but loves
> money more.
You really have NFI, do you?