WooooHoooo!! New pin company rockin' -n- rollin'
Starwriter
bought ALL of the Capcom pin parts, AND the rights to produce all of the
Capcom titles. They trucked in boxes, and boxes of Capcom parts, and
they are sorting them at this very moment. It was a blast talking to
him. He has taken the bull by the horns, and they ARE going to produce
new pins. The first title will be called Pinball Pool and the protos are
expected to be out later this year. WoooooooHooooooo!!!!!!
roby
Pinball? or what??
Are these games going to be built from Capcom architecture?
-Rob Craig
Starwriter <NOS...@ME.COM> wrote in message news:3900BCAE...@ME.COM...
Ray Johnson
takes to start cranking out a good supply of pins? You've almost got to
be huge in order to take something like this on. It's not the 30's
anymore where they could be made in garages in an afternoon and sold out
of the trunks of cars. I smell another Alvin G. thing- come-and-go
stuff.
Hmmm....
Ray J.
Cliff Boese wrote:
>
> ALL the capvom parts and rights, does this meen BBB? WOHOO
Rexxx
facility to store them... then he has some finances behind
him... So, it might not be as "fly-by-night" as you may think..
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Mf101723
>bought ALL of the Capcom pin parts, AND the rights to produce all of the
>Capcom titles
What does that last part mean? Make the odl games again? (why would he want
to do that except maybe for BBB or Kingpin) Or rights to put the name Capcom"
on his new machines??
Cliff Boese
On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:40:14 -0700, Starwriter <NOS...@ME.COM> wrote:
>Just got off the phone with Gene Cunningham of Illinois Pinball Inc. He
>bought ALL of the Capcom pin parts, AND the rights to produce all of the
DGoooch
game to the coin-op market this summer from a newly formed company, Illinois
Pinball Inc.. Gene Cunningham of Cunningham Enterprises in Bloomington, Ill.,
is working with experienced pinball designers and programmers to complete
Pinball Pool. Cunningham began his pinball odyssey 27 years ago when he
purchased a pinball game being rotated out of his skating facility, Skate 'N'
Place. One game led to another and today Cunningham has 1,200 pinball games,
along with a jukebox and antique slot machines housed in two separate buildings
on his property. His main business is real estate and construction, but pinball
occupies a special place in his heart.
Cunningham sought to purchase the pinball division from Williams Electronics
when it exited the market, but the company elected not to sell. Cunningham has
obtained the rights to the Alvin G. game Mystery Castle and six pinballs by
Capcom (Airborne, Breakshot, Flipper Football, Pinball Magic, and the
prototypes Big Bank Bar and Kingpin). Cunningham told Play Meter he also has
the rights to reproduce Capcom pinball parts and owns Capcom's pinball parts
business. Illinois Pinball Inc. can be reached at (309)827-3373 (for parts) or
(309)828-5844.
Dan in Denver
ChrisP4046
understand, BBB is pretty cool but kinda simple and easy. Kingpin - no one
seems to know much about. The mobster theme is cool. Was the software on this
game left unfinished? What's the deal with Kingpin?
Joe Schober
>The first title will be called Pinball Pool and the protos are
>expected to be out later this year.
Pinball Pool, huh? I wonder if this is going to be "Breakshot Special
Edition", or actually a new game.
Ray Johnson ray...@simsteel.com writes:
>I dunno- do these "little guys" (Cunningham and Lawlor) have what it
>takes to start cranking out a good supply of pins? You've almost got to
>be huge in order to take something like this on. It's not the 30's
>anymore where they could be made in garages in an afternoon and sold out
>of the trunks of cars. I smell another Alvin G. thing- come-and-go
>stuff.
Certainly a reasonable concern. On the other hand, word is that Mr. Cunningham
made an offer for the WMS pinball division. If he's well-off enough to make a
legitimate bid like that (I'm assuming it was legitimate), then he's probably
at least got the financial backing to run his own pin company. (Expertise, of
course, is a different matter... I can't comment on that, not knowing the man.)
--Joe
Iain Odlin
>Just got off the phone with Gene Cunningham of Illinois Pinball Inc. He
>bought ALL of the Capcom pin parts, AND the rights to produce all of the
>Capcom titles. They trucked in boxes, and boxes of Capcom parts, and
>they are sorting them at this very moment. It was a blast talking to
>him. He has taken the bull by the horns, and they ARE going to produce
>new pins. The first title will be called Pinball Pool and the protos are
>expected to be out later this year. WoooooooHooooooo!!!!!!
So, how can we mere mortals express our support to him for producing "Big
Bang Bar"? It's been developed already; it's got the reputation/word-
of-mouth. Seems like a good bet.
-Iain
tat-2
12...it might knock the value down a bit...
just a though
course It could even increase the value...if they make some minor/major
changes....
tat-2
Iain Odlin wrote in message <390144e3...@news.javanet.com>...
Mf101723
>takes to start cranking out a good supply of pins? You've almost got to>be
huge in order to take something like this on. It's not the 30's anymore<<<
Yes but nowadays what is a good supply of pins? It ain't 1992 anymore. Maybe
they want to use that "Capcom Classic" system they used in Breakshot as a base,
you would be AMAZED at how much less circuitry that game used than the others,
the backbox is 2/3 empty, it's only 2 circuit boards and one of them is size of
an envelope.
Russel Willoughby
I played a few games of Kingpin at the Expo a couple of years ago. The
software is very much unfinished. As it stood then, it was a
time-based game (sort of like Safecracker), but games seemed to go on
FOREVER. Also, there was a serious lack of goals to achieve.
The playfield layout seemed okay, but not memorable. On the whole, the
game was much less impressive than Big Bang Bar.
Russel Willoughby
<< rus...@bellsouth.net >>
Russel Willoughby
>Please, can someone else verify?? Will this be call Capcom or Illinois
>Pinball? or what??
The name of the company is Illinois Pinball. Capcom is a big Japanese
company that is still in business making video games (home and
coin-op), so I'm guessing their name will be nowhere to be found on
the new products.
(Well, maybe "Capcom Pinball" will still be screened on the PCBs.
We'll see...)
>Are these games going to be built from Capcom architecture?
I would imagine so. I don't think they would be expecting to have a
finished product this year if they had had to design a new hardware
platform from the ground up.
Russel Willoughby
<< rus...@bellsouth.net >>
Ray Johnson
Yes- this is probably the right recipe for smaller company, just
starting out. But then again, look at the success (or lack of success)
of Breakshot when it was first introduced by Capcom. Yes- a good
looking game, simple to make and maintain, but it didn't catch on at
all. I can't imagine an ambitious new company wanting to re-take that
risk.
Don't get me wrong- I wish them luck- we need all the pins we can get in
this world! :) But I sure don't know how they're going to do it.
:)
--
Ray Johnson * Fully Restored Pinball Machines *
Action Pinball & Amusement * Sales, Service, Parts, Repair *
Salt Lake City, Utah * Finest quality, best service- guaranteed *
Mail: ray...@simsteel.com Web: http://www.simsteel.com/rimg/action.htm
We're serious about pinball. Anything else is just for fun!
Mf101723
But then again, look at the success (or lack of success)>of Breakshot when it
maintain, but it didn't catch on
Well yes, but note I only said they might want to use that game's lower-cost
operating system, not remake the game.
Boag1
very well be right, Ray.
The thing of it is, though, that Capcom pins didn't seem to have any decent
distribution here in the U.S. (from what I heard, that story seemed to mirror
the distribution story in Europe, too). I can count on one hand the number of
pins that I've seen on location from Capcom. I've seen a couple Pinball
Magics, and a couple Breakshots. Neither seemed to be any worse off than any
other WMS or Sega product appeared to be. If anything, they worked BETTER.
IIRC, many Capcom pins weren't even carried by the local distributors. After
Pinball Magic, they just didn't order any. Back then, there was SEVERE
competition from 3 longstanding pinball manufacturers that consumed enough
market share to bury any challengers. Same thing happened with A. G. &
Company, only perhaps to a stronger degree. I guess the Capcom name DOES have
enough pull to keep them around a bit longer.
The biggest questions will revolve around operator acceptance. To me, "The
folks who helped make TAF." would be the biggest factor in their favor. Pat's
had a LOT of good pins. Louis is a fine software guy, and John's cool, too.
But as has been shown before, what the OPERATOR accepts as good can be
DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to what I think is good. And that's assuming that they
can get good distribution of whatever products they plan on manufacturing
(which I'm hoping will be pinball machines, but as of yet can't be confirmed).
And that's just Pat's company. What if the two new companies aren't
necessarily linked?
Me? I'm hoping against hope that the Capcom tradition is continued. I thought
that the flippers on Capcom games were second ONLY to WMS flippers, and even
then, not by very much at all! I LOVED THOSE FLIPPERS! I thought they had
some good titles and were about to break out with BBB had distribution
improved.
Aron (who would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a BBB on location)
Street maintainence instructions for pinball: 1. Unlock and open coin door
2. Remove coin box and empty contents 3. Replace coin box and shut door 4.
Lock coin door. Congratulations! You're a pinball tech in Detroit! Not that
I'm bitter.
Cliff Boese
TOTALY diffrent from the production run, maby they could make BETTER
changes to bbb that would but the production run a step forward of the
12 protos, or make a BBB part 2, the ALLY
Iain Odlin
>I dunno- do these "little guys" (Cunningham and Lawlor) have what it
>takes to start cranking out a good supply of pins? You've almost got to
>be huge in order to take something like this on. It's not the 30's
>anymore where they could be made in garages in an afternoon and sold out
>of the trunks of cars. I smell another Alvin G. thing- come-and-go
>stuff.
I don't see it.
We've had -- very recently -- the BIG IS BETTER paradigm shown to be a
non-viable method of pinball production. Williams, the last of the
titans, fell with a mighty "plop"; the finale in a long line of giants to
collapse.
Stern's owner states flatly that there is no way for a large corp. to
survive in the current arcade/amusement atmosphere.
The logical next attempt has to be a small company.
And I wish them _very_ well. Have you played "Striker Extreme" yet...?
-Iain
Lloyd R Olson
be able to put a monetary value on the fun they've had playing them.Hoping
everyone gets a chance at a new BBB ! Lloyd :)
Cliff Boese wrote in message <3901fdc0...@nntp.wctel.net>...
Cliff Boese
Ryan Avery
> Don't feel sorry for the owners of BBB, if the value decreases. You'll never
> be able to put a monetary value on the fun they've had playing them.Hoping
> everyone gets a chance at a new BBB ! Lloyd :)
And why would the value decrease? They'll still be the only ones who own a
Capcom Big Bang Bar. The rest can just be considered knockoffs...
--
Ryan Avery ICQ# 17490198
ry...@ryanavery.com
Pinball: http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~averyr
Music: http://www.listensmart.com/ryanavery
Or get my CD at http://www.mp3.com/ryanavery
Mushroom
It just has it all !!! The artwork , the sounds , the gameplay , the
colours , the "futurama"-like artwork (thank God for Stan Fukuoka !!!)
, did I menton the colours ?? The ooooohs , the aaaahs , the "a little
more to the left" , the tube dancer , the ball locks , the blue ramp
arrows , the artwork around the speakers !!! Name it and this game has
it ! We gotta have it !!!
>well it could be like the flash gordon pinball, the prototypes were
>TOTALY diffrent from the production run, maby they could make BETTER
>changes to bbb that would but the production run a step forward of the
>12 protos, or make a BBB part 2, the ALLY
>
>On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:48:47 -0400, "tat-2" <ta...@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>>BBB would be good although I feel sorta sorry for the owners of the original
>>12...it might knock the value down a bit...
>>
>>just a though
>>course It could even increase the value...if they make some minor/major
>>changes....
>>
>>tat-2
>>
>>Iain Odlin wrote in message <390144e3...@news.javanet.com>...
>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:40:14 -0700, Starwriter <NOS...@ME.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just got off the phone with Gene Cunningham of Illinois Pinball Inc. He
>>>>bought ALL of the Capcom pin parts, AND the rights to produce all of the
>>>>Capcom titles. They trucked in boxes, and boxes of Capcom parts, and
>>>>they are sorting them at this very moment. It was a blast talking to
>>>>him. He has taken the bull by the horns, and they ARE going to produce
>>>>new pins. The first title will be called Pinball Pool and the protos are
>>>>expected to be out later this year. WoooooooHooooooo!!!!!!
>>>
>>> So, how can we mere mortals express our support to him for producing "Big
>>> Bang Bar"? It's been developed already; it's got the reputation/word-
>>> of-mouth. Seems like a good bet.
>>>
>>> -Iain
>>>
>>
>>
>
Bye
Bart Baeyens
Pinball Plastics & Flyers collector : *** buy , trade or sell ***
Interesse in een knappe , volledig gerestaureerde flipperkast ??? Check de ...
... Mushroom Amusements Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/mushroomamusements/
*WARNING* objects in game moving faster than they appear !!!
Joe Schober
>The playfield layout seemed okay, but not memorable. On the whole, the
>game was much less impressive than Big Bang Bar.
Really? Hmmm... interesting. I have exactly the opposite take. Kingpin,
though clearly unfinished, really intrigued me: good ideas, stacking modes,
etc. By comparison, though BBB *looks* ultra-cool, I thought the play was
fairly average. I truly think that if BBB were to go into widespread release,
it would kill the mystique, and people would find a decent but unremarkable
game.
But that's just my opinion, and you know how much that's worth... :-)
--Joe
Mf101723
> titans, fell with a mighty "plop"; the finale in a long line of giants
In addition, while there might be minor players trying to enter the market
similar to Alvin G. in the 90's, back then Alvin G. was entering a crowded
market, which didn't help heir odds of success. Now there is just Stern.
Cliff Boese
add more sutff, or change the hardware or someting to set them apart.
tat-2
2nd line not the originals...! hence more demand (if there ever could be a
more desirable machine to own then one of the original 12)
tat-2
Mushroom wrote in message <390227df...@news.skynet.be>...
Russel Willoughby
With great software, Kingpin could have been a really good game, maybe
even better than BBB (which I agree is a little overrated by many in
this newsgroup). But for the game to have been better than BBB, the
software would have to have been MUCH more polished than the software
on any previous Capcom game.
I guess it could have happened. Hell, I guess it could STILL happen,
but I doubt it. If it's true that Pat Lawlor Design is going to be
working with Illinois Pinball on new games, I would be surprised if
Kingpin will ever see the light of day.
Russel Willoughby
<< rus...@bellsouth.net >>
Boag1
kick-tail software that was polsihed well? i don't know about anyone else, but
it's been a LOOOOOOOOONG time since Mark Ritchie's last title, Indiana Jones.
Heck, that was back during the Superpin era.
I sure could use a new Mark Ritchie fix. Something new that was undeniably his
(with criss-cross ramps). While it may never happen, one can still dream,
can't he?
Aron
pin...@si-net.com
> I'd love to see a new Mark Ritchie pin, be it Kingpin or something
> completely new. Who knows what the future will hold?
Why, John Shields of course,
--
*************************************
Marvin Giesting
Fireball, Captain Fantastic, Expressway
Space Time, Flicker, U.S.A., Monte Carlo
Royal Flush, Hot Shot, King Kool,
King of Diamonds, Slick Chick, Big Daddy
Jack In The Box, Heat Wave, Coronation
Lady Luck, Travel Time, Turf King, Beam Lite
Miami Beach, Yacht Club, Baffle Ball
http://fayette.k12.in.us/~mgiestin
Wanna learn physics? Play pinball !
*************************************
Russel Willoughby
>But wouldn't it be great if Kingpin DID see the light of day with some new,
>kick-tail software that was polsihed well? i don't know about anyone else, but
>it's been a LOOOOOOOOONG time since Mark Ritchie's last title, Indiana Jones.
>Heck, that was back during the Superpin era.
>
>I sure could use a new Mark Ritchie fix. Something new that was undeniably his
>(with criss-cross ramps). While it may never happen, one can still dream,
>can't he?
I'd love to see a new Mark Ritchie pin, be it Kingpin or something
completely new. Who knows what the future will hold?
Russel Willoughby
<< rus...@bellsouth.net >>
David Marston
troublesome. Maybe the electroluminescent panel, too?
>It just has it all !!! The artwork , the sounds , the gameplay , the
>colours , the "futurama"-like artwork...
Agreed!
--
................David Marston mar...@mv.mv.com
David Marston
Iain Odlin <od...@reed.edu> wrote:
>...
> We've had -- very recently -- the BIG IS BETTER paradigm shown to be a
> non-viable method of pinball production. Williams, the last of the
> titans, fell with a mighty "plop"; the finale in a long line of giants to
> collapse.
>
> Stern's owner states flatly that there is no way for a large corp. to
> survive in the current arcade/amusement atmosphere.
I recall Gary Stern saying that a PUBLICLY HELD company couldn't survive
making pinball or any games other than whatever is currently hot. That
usually subsumes "large corp." unless Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen gets
into coin-ops. A small but publicly-held company would be just as bad off,
so I'm not disagreeing with your point, just suggesting that Stern's main
thought was about stockholder expectations.
Bromley Corp. is an example of a small privately-held company that is
managing to stay afloat. They use contract manufacturing services and
have been known to make games that have a steel ball rolling down an
inclined surface, under a playfield glass.
In theory, a big company like Sega can ride out downturns in the market.
In reality, only a privately-held company wants to.
--
................David Marston mar...@mv.mv.com
Dan Wilga
> Russel Willoughby wrote:
>
> > I'd love to see a new Mark Ritchie pin, be it Kingpin or something
> > completely new. Who knows what the future will hold?
>
> Why, John Shields of course,
OK, folks, I just killfiled JS. I don't need to keep seeing his name pop up
here :-).
Dan Wilga dwilga...@mtholyoke.edu
** Remove the REMOVE in my address address to reply reply **
Kurt van Zyl
pinball. He said that his favorite pinball game featured an Alien trying to
get into a strip club. Could this be something from Big Bang Bar?
Lemme Know,
Kurt
pin...@angelfire.com
MGPACAK
offered to sell some of that to Mr. Cunningham when he said he was buying
Williams. He went around me and bought the stuff himself and Basically shafted
me. When he buys anything its like a big vacumn. It goes in and never comes
out. I personally do not think anyone will ever see any Capcom parts from him
.Gimme a call for more of the story. Mike Pacak 330 549 2596
Mf101723
of that to Mr. Cunningham when he said he was buying >Williams. He went around
me and bought the stuff himself and Basically
Why not give us the whole story right here? Guess it all depends on what he
is going to do with the parts...sell them.... hoard them (how many people are
clamoring for Capcom parts anyway? )...or use them to start making pinball
machines with. Same goes especially for Alvin G. parts, most pinball people
have never even heard of the company OR seen any of their (few) games. I don't
expect to see protestors with torches and pitchforks marching down main street
yelling "we want Alvin G. parts!!"
Gregg Woodcock
If you do, have them contact John Pierce at CP Distributing or Mike
Pacak; those 2 guys got all the Alvin G. stuff!
--
THANX...Gregg wood...@fastlane.net http://www.fastlane.net/~woodcock
*CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)*
"If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because
I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Boag1
reports don't hold much water. Sour grapes?
Come on. I'm not trying to be rude (well, okay, I'm not trying to be VERY
rude), but why weren't you able to obtain the rights in the first place? Offer
enough cash, and it's yours. Hey, if a MM can sell for $5500, it shows that
for the right price, you can have ANYTHING YOU WANT IF YOU WANT IT BADLY
ENOUGH.
Tell your side of the story if you like. I've got eyes to read it with. I'm
sure yours isn't the only view. HOW were you shafted? If he made Capcom/A. G.
& Co. a better/more lucrative offer than you did, how's that shafting you?
Sounds like capitalism at its finest. Sounds to me like you were TRYING to buy
the rights, but he tried a little HARDER.
Give us the story. We can judge for ourselves what happened. I'm not going to
waste the time or money calling long-distance without reading something
substantiated.
Kevin Myers
>If you do, have them contact John Pierce at CP Distributing or Mike
>Pacak; those 2 guys got all the Alvin G. stuff!
Wasn't this thread started by Mike Pacak?
Kevin Myers
Joe Schober
>My friend and I were on the schoolbus one day and we were talking about
>pinball. He said that his favorite pinball game featured an Alien trying to
>get into a strip club. Could this be something from Big Bang Bar?
Certainly possible... though unless he's been to any of the major pinball
shows, or y'all live in Phoenix, it's unlikely that your friend has played BBB
... I believe there are only 12 in circulation, and most (all?) are in private
homes, occasionally creeping out to play at shows.
--Joe
Gaymond Lee
Or, he could have lived in San Diego where they were orig (at least
2-3 of them). I used to play BBB and Kingpin (didn't really care for
it) at the Capcom arcades and they were set @ 2 or 3 nickels per play.
Gaymond Lee
Mf101723
>> expect to see protestors with torches and pitchforks marching down>main
street
>> yelling "we want Alvin G. parts!!"
>
>Pacak; those 2 guys got all the Alvin G. stuff!
oh it said Gene purchased the rights to A.G. and CO. also, but I guess he
didn't get the parts...?
Stelter
I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know that
Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has been my
experience..
If you ever are with him at an auction he will buy TONS of stuff. He will
talk very friendly to you and ask you what you are looking to buy. If you
tell him that you have been wanting a Fireball for 20 years, and that you
FINALLY saved the money to buy the one at the auction, you can bet that
he'll outbid you and win it. Then he'll mention that he already has 10 of
them in a barn. It's just my opinion, but I have always disliked the concept
of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever restored
or set up to play.
It makes no sense to me to have a bunch of duplicates wasting away when
other collectors would really appreciate and do something with them. Of
course Gene is a millionaire and I'm not. He probably looks at the games as
an asset that will increase in value. In fact, maybe he is trying to buy up
all of the pinball rights so that no more will be produced. That way his
collection would be worth more (at least short term).
I don't know Gene other than seeing him at shows and auctions. I would LOVE
to hear from someone who has bought (NOT TRADED) something from Gene. If he
would start pinball production with a new company it would be great, and I
would wish him all the luck in the world!
MGPACAK <mgp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000425223651...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> For what it is worth I was buying all the Capcom pinball stuff and Rights
and
> offered to sell some of that to Mr. Cunningham when he said he was buying
> Williams. He went around me and bought the stuff himself and Basically
shafted
> me. When he buys anything its like a big vacumn. It goes in and never
comes
> out. I personally do not think anyone will ever see any Capcom parts from
him
> .Gimme a call for more of the story. Mike Pacak 330 549 2596
Jeremy Wilson
says...
>He went around me and bought the stuff himself and Basically shafted
>me. When he buys anything its like a big vacumn.
Sort of like you at the manufacturer's tables at Expo!
--
xe...@inforamp.net - Jeremy Wilson - Modern Pinball Game Collector
Wonder what's inside my wallet? http://www.inforamp.net/~xeno/wallet
Boag1
I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know that
Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has been my
experience..
If you ever are with him at an auction he will buy TONS of stuff. He will
talk very friendly to you and ask you what you are looking to buy. If you
tell him that you have been wanting a Fireball for 20 years, and that you
FINALLY saved the money to buy the one at the auction, you can bet that
he'll outbid you and win it. Then he'll mention that he already has 10 of
them in a barn. It's just my opinion, but I have always disliked the concept
of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever restored
or set up to play.
It makes no sense to me to have a bunch of duplicates wasting away when
other collectors would really appreciate and do something with them. Of
course Gene is a millionaire and I'm not. He probably looks at the games as
an asset that will increase in value. In fact, maybe he is trying to buy up
all of the pinball rights so that no more will be produced. That way his
collection would be worth more (at least short term).
I don't know Gene other than seeing him at shows and auctions. I would LOVE
to hear from someone who has bought (NOT TRADED) something from Gene. If he
would start pinball production with a new company it would be great, and I
would wish him all the luck in the world! >>
While this might be RUDE, it's certainly not unfair. As always, to the winner
goes the spoils. Perhaps it's a legitimate beef to complain about it...it's
not very "sportsmanslike," if you will, but it's certainly not WRONG. If he
outbids everyone, he's won the right of first purchase.
Perhaps he does hoard what he owns (I don't know Gene or his methods), but it's
his right to do so if he chooses. Again, while this might irk me to the Nth
degree, I'll be the first to say (grumpily) that he's allowed to do whatever he
wants with what he purchases. He'd be well within his rights to BURN any
equipment he owns. I'd think it was foolish and selfish, but who am I to tell
him what to do with HIS stuff?
What bothers me about the whole thing is a "victim" mentality from a guy who
may not be above going around other people himself in order to get what he
wants. Why should someone wait to purchase something through a middle man when
they can go directly to the manufacterer and purchase it for themselves?
Obviously the price Gene named was better than what Mike was offering. Why
should Gene allow Mike to buy the rights cheap, and then pay Mike for a
PERCENTAGE of the stuff (with a hefty markup for the Pacak foundation) when he
can get the rights for himself WITHOUT Pacak's "generosity?"
This is the way capitalism works, and at times the truth can hurt like the
dickens. Money talks, everything else walks. Anyone who says differently is
selling something (oddly enough).
That's one of the key reasons I like this newsgroup. For those of us who are
passionate about pinball, the money usually isn't the primary concern...it's
the GAME. Sure, money's a part of the whole game, but every hobby has a price
of admission, right? I'm not looking for a WCS to be dropped on my doorstep
tomorrow morning. Few folks around here charge astronomical prices for their
wares. Usually they're relatively fair, and if they're too much, they won't
sell. Sometimes you can find deals, too, and heck, some people posts deals for
others to get if they can't get to them themselves! That's passion, folks, not
greed.
It's an ugly world out there sometimes, and as Mick Jagger once crooned, "You
can't always get what you want." Capitalism reigns in most cases, as it
should, but there are good places, such as RGP, that don't run strictly on
greed tactics. I, for one, am happier because of it.
ChrisP4046
>.it's
>not very "sportsmanslike," if you will, but it's certainly not WRONG. If he
>outbids everyone, he's won the right of first purchase.
OF course, but that doesn't give him reprieve from the title of greedy bastard.
If I had tons of money, I wouldn't hoard pinball machines and collect all the
MM's I could get my hands on, only to leave them in a warehouse doing nothing.
It runs contrary to the spirit of pinball, which is to have fun! People who use
beautiful things such as music, art, pinball, etc. in order to make profit are
big phonies! I don't care how much money he has. Of course, Williams based
their own livelihood on pinball sales, and so they cannot be blamed for their
actions (their business saavy is another matter entirely). If I was rich and
had a diamond plated Whitewater and wanted a second one, and the kid bidding
against me wasn't rich and wanted the pin badly because he wanted to go home
and have FUN with it, then I would let him have it. But that's just me.
Capitalism is a great system only when people respect it and don't succumb to
greed and envy. YES, this Gene character, from the description given, is greedy
and morally at fault. Don't blame me for having values. I'm no spiritualist or
moralist, but I call em as I see em. I don't like this Gene fellow unless he
starts producing good pins, because for the moment at least, Stern isn't giving
it to us.
Chris (who just bought his first pin, a Whitewater, and is contemplating buying
a Safecracker next)
Kurt van Zyl
bell.
Kurt
pin...@angelfire.com
Duncan Brown
Stelter wrote:
>
> I have to back up Mike about Gene.
> I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know that
> Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has been my
> experience..
> If you ever are with him at an auction he will buy TONS of stuff. He will
> talk very friendly to you and ask you what you are looking to buy. If you
> tell him that you have been wanting a Fireball for 20 years, and that you
> FINALLY saved the money to buy the one at the auction, you can bet that
> he'll outbid you and win it. Then he'll mention that he already has 10 of
> them in a barn. It's just my opinion, but I have always disliked the concept
> of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever restored
> or set up to play.
Everyone is welcome to their opinions on this- it's a touchy subject for
some. How much is too much? Should he-with-the-most-cash-win? But
let's at least get some facts straight. Gene does not have 10
Fireballs. I believe it's 7 (at least of the original 1972 version).
And none of his games are in a barn, they are all very well treated - he
has buildings with sufficient heating, cooling, light, and electricity
to keep all his games in as good a condition as he finds them in. That
fact alone puts him way ahead of all of the other massive-collection
folks out there. Many hundreds of them are set up, I don't know about
their playability though. In the long run that may well determine his
ultimate love-him or hate-him rating: will he start a museum? Restore
all his games and give tours? Or will they all just sit there untouched
until they're sold at an estate auction decades from now? Decry his
hoarding habits all you want, but there is no other place on this planet
right now where so many different (and some very rare) games exist
together in close proximity. It's an enormous *potential* resource...it
seems silly to damn the man until we find out what he ultimately does
with it. I'll tell you what, though: I bet every game designer out
there would kill to have access to that kind of historical resource when
dreaming up new game ideas! If it helps his new company design great
games, it will all be worth it (IMHO.)
For proof that his Fireballs aren't in a barn:
http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/fireballs.jpg
(I think he has one more that is not in that row...)
And for a tiny fraction of his games (you'd need to take the roof off
the place to get them all in one shot!):
http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/gene1.jpg
Duncan, just layin' out the facts and stayin' out of the argument
Stelter
I was told that Mike had a deal worked out with Capcom.
He mentioned to Gene that he had something in the works, and then Gene snuck
in behind his back.
I don't know this to be a fact, I just have heard it from some people.
I go to LOTS of coin op shows. Many times I hear people talking in the hotel
bar the night before the show about a potential deal that they have going.
Sometimes I know the seller, and it's an item that I want.
But as a matter of common decency, I don't run to the seller and try to
steal the guy's deal.
Sometimes I will ask the seller to let me have the first crack at it if (and
ONLY if) the deal with the first guy falls through, but I NEVER try to steal
the deal!
Maybe I'm a sap, but I can tell you that after 20 solid years of dealing in
coin op stuff, I have an excellent reputation, and am proud of being a
straight shooter in all of my dealings!
I'm also the President of a manufacturing company. Many of my competitors
will "sneak" into a customer's office when the customer is out to lunch or
in a meeting, and will look at the other potential seller's prices for
equipment. Some of them even offer customers money or gifts to let them know
the other seller's prices.
This might get them a few more orders every year, but I would prefer to have
my company regarded as being of the highest integrity, and with NO question
of our honesty.
I guess it's all about being able to sleep at night, and being able to look
my kids in the eyes when they ask me about being fair and honest in life.
Later!
Keith
Boag1 <bo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000426125354...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
> << I have to back up Mike about Gene.
> I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know
that
> Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has been
my
> experience..
> If you ever are with him at an auction he will buy TONS of stuff. He will
> talk very friendly to you and ask you what you are looking to buy. If you
> tell him that you have been wanting a Fireball for 20 years, and that you
> FINALLY saved the money to buy the one at the auction, you can bet that
> he'll outbid you and win it. Then he'll mention that he already has 10 of
> them in a barn. It's just my opinion, but I have always disliked the
concept
> of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever
restored
> or set up to play.
> It makes no sense to me to have a bunch of duplicates wasting away when
> other collectors would really appreciate and do something with them. Of
> course Gene is a millionaire and I'm not. He probably looks at the games
as
> an asset that will increase in value. In fact, maybe he is trying to buy
up
> all of the pinball rights so that no more will be produced. That way his
> collection would be worth more (at least short term).
> I don't know Gene other than seeing him at shows and auctions. I would
LOVE
> to hear from someone who has bought (NOT TRADED) something from Gene. If
he
> would start pinball production with a new company it would be great, and I
> would wish him all the luck in the world! >>
>
>
> While this might be RUDE, it's certainly not unfair. As always, to the
winner
> goes the spoils. Perhaps it's a legitimate beef to complain about
it...it's
> not very "sportsmanslike," if you will, but it's certainly not WRONG. If
he
> outbids everyone, he's won the right of first purchase.
>
> Perhaps he does hoard what he owns (I don't know Gene or his methods), but
it's
> his right to do so if he chooses. Again, while this might irk me to the
Kurt van Zyl
that he was talking about! He said it was in San Diego. Man that's cool that
he played one of the 12 BBB's when it was actually on location.
TSAMAIL
say if 'WOW'. If Bill Gates was into pinball, I don't think there would be
much difference. (in girth or variety)
The question is, where is this place, and how does one get 'invited'??
Rick P. TSAMAIL@AOL..COM
"It only takes 1 ball "
Duncan Brown
TSAMAIL wrote:
>
> I just linked to Gene's ftp site with pictures of his 'collection'. All I can
> say if 'WOW'. If Bill Gates was into pinball, I don't think there would be
> much difference. (in girth or variety)
Just so there's no confusion: those are pictures I took, sitting on some
web space I have. Gene doesn't have any notion of the internet, I'm
afraid...
Duncan
Daina Pettit
>I have to back up Mike about Gene.
>I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know that
>Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has been my
>experience..
Some of these types of collectors call themselves 'amassers'. They buy
everything and the only way you can get something out of them is by trade.
If the stuff is well-treated, then a real bonus to this is that when his
estate is sold, tons of great stuff floods the market, unless of course
another 'amasser' gets the whole lot. :^(
Since Gene is older than most of us, I guess this may be a small consolation.
Tim Arnold is emphatic that he is a collector and *not* an 'amasser'. Tim
sells games and parts from time to time.
I am only aware of two major 'amassers' in the US, Gene Cunningham (IL) and
Richard Conger (CA). Are there any others? I would be interested in seeing
a world wide ranking of personal collections by size, and each qualified by
'collector' or 'amasser', kind of like a Forbes 500. Outside the US, I
believe there is a guy in France with over 600 games, but I don't know
anything else about him or other large European collections.
--
Daina Pettit=da...@xmission.com,voice:(801)277-6296,fax&msg:(801)277-0888
www.xmission.com/~daina UNIX Consulting SLC, Utah www.mrpinball.com
Mr. Pinball Classified--More Pinball Ads than ANYWHERE, and they're FREE!
Sean McCormick
up all of my machines and have them on display. Do you have any other
pictures that you can post?
"Duncan Brown" <brow...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message
news:390735DF...@eisner.decus.org...
>
>
> Stelter wrote:
> >
> > I have to back up Mike about Gene.
> > I don't know anything about the Capcom or Alvin G. Deals, but I do know
that
> > Gene buys everything and won't let go of ANYTHING! At least this has
been my
> > experience..
> > If you ever are with him at an auction he will buy TONS of stuff. He
will
> > talk very friendly to you and ask you what you are looking to buy. If
you
> > tell him that you have been wanting a Fireball for 20 years, and that
you
> > FINALLY saved the money to buy the one at the auction, you can bet that
> > he'll outbid you and win it. Then he'll mention that he already has 10
of
> > them in a barn. It's just my opinion, but I have always disliked the
concept
> > of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever
restored
> > or set up to play.
>
Mf101723
as>an asset that will increase in value. In fact, maybe he is trying to buy
up>all of the pinball rights so that no more will be produced.
Well he could TRY.... but rest assured there will never be any more Capcom or
Alvin G. pinballs made anyway...Even if Bill Gates bought General Motors and
Ford and boarded up their factories, other car makers (existing or new ones)
would fill the vacuum.
Gene was quoted as saying he's not in it for the money, he just wants to save
pinball. I cannot fathom that he meant for himself!
Kurt van Zyl
Thanks.
Kurt
pin...@angelfire.com
Duncan Brown
wrote:
>Can you give me a link to the site. I really want to see what this guy has.
It's just a couple of messages earlier in this thread! You need to go
back and get the context for the photos, they don't make sense
otherwise. It's not an exhaustive photodocumentary of his collection.
Duncan
Mike Burke
>For proof that his Fireballs aren't in a barn:
>
>http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/fireballs.jpg
>
>(I think he has one more that is not in that row...)
>
>And for a tiny fraction of his games (you'd need to take the roof off
>the place to get them all in one shot!):
>
>http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/gene1.jpg
(wow - I'm impressed)
Man, it must take ages to dust that place!
:-)
Mikey
--
Pinball Game Web Index Site (501 Games. 994 Sites.)
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frenzy/pinlinks/
MGPACAK
also told him I thought I could get the rights to Capcom and thought he could
use the system Again he was asking me to invest so my investment would have
been parts and rights He wanted to controll everything in the other deal
which is why everyone walked. . He called me several times When He supposedly
was buying Williams to ASk to invest as he did others. He really called to
pick brains. Sometime ask Pat Lawler Why He has no part of that deal. I bet
Anything we will never see those parts. He bought the Alvin G parts from C&P
Which Originally I had bought And worked out a deal for C&P to get all of what
I did not want.He has yes Many machines set up but 90% are not playable and ask
him they never will be. He does not want to preserve pinball he just wants to
think he is someone in the Bussiness when he really has no Clue. If anyone
wants to hear more email me your number and I will call you. Mike Pacak
Mf101723
out a deal for C&P to get all of>what>I did not want.
I think I missed something there. huh?
>He has yes Many machines set up but 90% are not playable and ask
>him they never will be
I read he has 1200 machines? How much room would you need to have them all set
up and working?? I would say the pinball community certainly has more than
it's share of 'hoarders', it goes with the territory, all of us are already
kinda nutty collecting pinball machines in the first place, having hundreds of
them is not that rare.
>He does not want to preserve pinball he just wants to
>think he is someone in the Bussiness when he really has no Clue.
well if he wants to try it and maybe or maybe not fall on his face, then let
him, I would rather wait and see what transpires before making a judgement
like that.
KME
was down here were heavily abused. Dont think they were EVER cleaned in
their short street life. 10 cents was a ripoff.
--
<KME>
David Gersic
>Everyone is welcome to their opinions on this- it's a touchy subject for
>some. How much is too much?
Who knows for sure? I think there's plenty of jealousy here to add to the
mix. Certainly I wish it were me with a huge warehouse full of pins like
this.
>Should he-with-the-most-cash-win? But
That's the American way, isn't it?
>let's at least get some facts straight. Gene does not have 10
>Fireballs. I believe it's 7 (at least of the original 1972 version).
7? 10? At some point it does get a bit silly, doesn't it? Geez, I wanted
one of these for 20 years, and he's sitting on more than half a dozen?
Sure, it's his right to do so, but I gotta admit to some envy here.
>their playability though. In the long run that may well determine his
>ultimate love-him or hate-him rating: will he start a museum? Restore
>all his games and give tours?
For the number of games he has, I don't see any way he will personally ever
restore them all. Even if he could do one a day, every day, it would take
years. He'll either have to hire somebody to do it, or only do some of
them.
>Or will they all just sit there untouched until they're sold at an estate
>auction decades from now?
That would be my worst fear and first suspicion. Unless he can turn this in
to some kind of museum, or find a way to fund it's continued existance, the
collection will probably disperse someday. That will be a shame.
>http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/fireballs.jpg
>http://home.flash.net/~frobozz/gene1.jpg
I think I've seen nirvana.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
|David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
|Systems Programmer Northern Illinois University |
| |
| I need a Phillips Screwdriver. All of mine are Craftsman. |
| |
|I'm tired of receiving crap in my mailbox, so the E-mail address has been|
|munged to foil the junkmail bots. Humans will figure it out on their own.|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
David Gersic
[-snip-]
>a world wide ranking of personal collections by size, and each qualified by
>'collector' or 'amasser', kind of like a Forbes 500. Outside the US, I
>believe there is a guy in France with over 600 games, but I don't know
>anything else about him or other large European collections.
I believe Federico Croci also has a large number of machines. No idea how
many, though I recall him mentioning having warehouses (yes, plural).
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
|David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
|Systems Programmer Northern Illinois University |
| |
| If Noah had used Zip, he could have used a smaller boat. |
Duncan Brown
>For the number of games he has, I don't see any way he will personally ever
>restore them all. Even if he could do one a day, every day, it would take
>years. He'll either have to hire somebody to do it, or only do some of
>them.
You would think so...but Tim Arnold, bless his heart, is making pretty
good progress on *his* collection! You probably could have tagged Tim
with the "amasser" slur a few years ago, but time has shown that his
heart is in the right place after all. He claims to be shopping out
one a week, but I believe he's going faster than that. He probably
has 3 or 4 hundred up and playable, and it's noticeably more each time
I've been out there. And of course he *does* open up his place for
people to play, and to make money for charity, so he wins big points
there too.
Maybe Gene will get to that point someday too. Or maybe he will be
forever stuck in the "acquisition phase" and never get to the "do
something useful stage." Who knows. It seems a bit early to judge
him harshly on that basis. (People are of course free to judge him
based on other dealings with him, and obviously some people have come
away unhappy in the past...)
Duncan
Roberto F. Hurtado
Here's his info.
PAL
234 W. Devon Ave.
Bensenville, IL 60106
Office: (630) 616-9499
Fax: (630) 616-9610
MGPACAK wrote:
> For what it is worth I was buying all the Capcom pinball stuff and Rights and
> offered to sell some of that to Mr. Cunningham when he said he was buying
> Williams. He went around me and bought the stuff himself and Basically shafted
Jody McCullough
> of having multiple games or hundreds of games if they are not ever restored
> or set up to play.
Hmmmm... well you either have the collector gene (NPI) or you don't.
I guess I do, so I can kindof understand it. I collect albums, have
over 500 on vinyl, a few hundred on cassette, and well over 500 on
CD. I have several duplicates, especially on the vinyl. The thing
is, you find one, then you find another in better condition or
whatever. I looked for "Desire" by Bob Dylan for 5 years... FIVE
YEARS!, and then one day I found it in an antique store for $10 (in
mint condition too). You can bet I paid that in a second.
Well, as luck would have it, I found another one a few months later
at a garage sale. I already had one in mint condition, but I bought
it. If I had the money, I could collect pinball machines the way I
collect albums. And, for sure, I'd have some duplicates.
Having said all that, 7 (or 10, or whatever) fireballs is
ridiculous. People could be playing those. What is he thinking?
-Jody-
JoSH Lehan
> On 26 Apr 2000 05:46:33 GMT, aflj...@aol.com (Joe Schober) wrote:
>
> >"Kurt van Zyl" kva...@cfl.rr.com writes:
> >
> >>My friend and I were on the schoolbus one day and we were talking about
> >>pinball. He said that his favorite pinball game featured an Alien trying to
> >>get into a strip club. Could this be something from Big Bang Bar?
> >
> >Certainly possible... though unless he's been to any of the major pinball
> >shows, or y'all live in Phoenix, it's unlikely that your friend has played BBB
> >... I believe there are only 12 in circulation, and most (all?) are in private
> >homes, occasionally creeping out to play at shows.
Don't forget the South Bay (in the San Francisco Bay Area): there was
both a BBB and a Kingpin being operated and available to the public a few
years ago. The BBB was at American Video for several months, about 3-4
years ago (?). The Kingpin was at Pizza Depot, about 1-2 years ago.
So, a ton of players (including myself) got to play these games -- not to
mention them popping up now and then at pinball shows.
Josh
"I like that!"
--
______ | Dr. Demento on the 'Net:
\Josh/ Lehan | http://www.krellan.com/demento/
\ / mailto:krella...@krellan.com (remove ".spam")
\/ http://www.krellan.com/ ICQ# 10155825
Boag1
Nudged the skill shot, did you? =)