Dissapointment with Stern and lack of quality control
PINBALL PRINCESS
few weeks now but have never posted before now. I wanted to share a
letter I just sent to Mike Jr. of Automated Services and all 3 reps
for Stern. I'm fairly new to pinball and until today, only owned two
machines(STTNG and SWE1). I'm hoping for a peaceful resolve with this
whole thing. If anything, I hope my problems help future NIB
purchasers. I was not expecting these kinds of issues. If anything, I
figured something might get damaged in shipping. However, this was
clearly not the case. Below is the e-mail in its entirety:
Hello,
I had 5 new in the box pinball machines delivered today to
my home.(LOTR LE w/shaker motor, Batman TDK, CSI, Shrek and Ironman) I
was so excited to finally receive these pins! I had been waiting for
what seemed like forever! Automated Services gave me explicit
instructions as to looking for damage on the machines and warned I’d
pretty much be stuck with any damage I didn’t document or flat out
refuse and send back:
“Hi Shelley,
Your machines shipped today via YRC BOL #******** Their Customer
Service number is 800-610-6500.
Thank you for your purchase.
Best,
Candice
*****PLEASE NOTE
SHIPMENT MUST BE UNCRATED AND THOROUGHLY INSPECTED (ALL FOUR SIDES,
TOP, BOTTOM, ETC.) UPON ARRIVAL WHILE THE FREIGHT COMPANY IS STILL
THERE - DO NOT LET THE DRIVER "RUSH" YOU. THERE CAN BE DAMAGE
SUSTAINED DUE TO DROPPING THE MACHINE WHICH MAY NOT BE OBVIOUS WITH A
VISIBLE INSPECTION OF THE OUTSIDE PACKAGING. IF THERE IS ANY DAMAGE
WHATSOEVER, YOU MAY EITHER REFUSE THE SHIPMENT OR NOTE THE DAMAGE ON
THE BILL OF LADING PRIOR TO SIGNING FOR THE SHIPMENT. IF THERE IS NO
INDICATION OF DAMAGE NOTED AT DELIVERY, THEN THERE IS NO RECOURSE FOR
A CLAIM OF DAMAGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CALL
US AT 800-727-8363 OR CALL THE FREIGHT COMPANY'S CUSTOMER SERVICE
NUMBER ABOVE.
AGAIN, DO NOT SIGN FOR THE MERCHANDISE UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED THAT IT
HAS NOT BEEN DAMAGED IN TRANSIT - YOUR SIGNATURE ON THE BILL OF LADING
WITHOUT NOTING DAMAGE MEANS THAT THE MACHINE WAS RECEIVED CLEAR OF ANY
SHIPPING DAMAGE.*****”
In order to thoughly inspect the new machines, most had to be removed
from the boxes. I said most because upon opening the top of the LOTR
pin, it was obvious this was NOT a new pin. First, the box was not
stapled like the others. It was taped shut. The cabinet was scratched
up where legs had obviously already been installed. Also, the gold
trimmed lockdown bar was badly scratched. There was no need to remove
it from the box. I paid over $5,000.00 for a new in the box machine.
This may be acceptable to someone putting this on a route and it’ll
get beaten to hell anyway, but as a private collector this is
unacceptable!!
I refused the Batman TDK with scratches down the cabinet and a chip
missing from the cabinet as well. Shrek was equally disappointing with
many gouges in the silk screening on one side of the cabinet. I
refused 3 machines. The 2 I kept and documented on the invoice are not
without their problems as well. CSI has a small chunk missing from the
top, left of the backbox. It’s something I believe can be repaired
with one of your qualified techs without decreasing the pins value.
The second problem with the CSI machine is the top, back glass panel
bar that had an obvious long gouge in it and was crudely covered up
with a black marker. It needs to be replaced! Ironman has scuffs on
its cabinet as well and also needs to be fixed.
I realize that there is no such thing as, “Perfect” when it comes to
these games. I am willing to accept minor imperfections. However, I
believe the majority of these problems are not minor, nor the miss-
treatment in the handling by the shippers. These problems weren’t
caused by shipping. These problems are due to the poor quality of
Stern products and its lack of quality control. I hope to have this
matter resolved ASAP. If this is a fluke and this kind of thing is
rare, I’d be willing to have replacement pins shipped out and give
this one more try. If however, I am correct and this sub-standard
quality is business as usual for Stern, then I want a full refund,
including shipping for the 3 refused pins and a qualified tech to fix
the 2 I kept.
I really do hope I’m wrong and this really IS a fluke. I love pinball.
I love the art of pinball. Pinballs are beautiful machines and it
seems to be a dying art form. Imagine the excitement of getting new
pins turning into this huge sick, sinking feeling upon opening these
boxes. I am so disappointed that I can’t even begin to put it into
words. If this is how it is, these will be the last new pinball’s I
purchase from Stern
Not only did I document everything on the inventory sheet, I also
photographed everything. I will gladly send these to you if you want
them.
Looking forward to your reply,
Shelley
spazz...@hotmail.com
Just thought I'd share my experiences with Stern pinballs new in the
box as I have been unboxing 10 or more a year for the last 6 years.
My experience is the exact opposite of what you describe. All
machines have arrived unmarked, undamaged, and not even so much as a
fingerprint anywhere to be seen.
I'm sorry to hear about this. I'm sure others will chime in, too.
Maybe it is the distributor you may have an issue with. I don't
know. Good luck and best wishes.
-Jeff
Bingovit
If the box of the LOTR LE wasn't even stapled shut you can bet the
game was used but not by Stern, they staple their pins when they leave
the factory!
It sure sounds like you didn't get NIB pins and that the distributor
put them back in the box as far as I know...
And that surely isn't Stern's fault...
Too bad your first NIB experience has to be like this though!
--Evert
CEG
Sounds like you may have received the floor models from the
distributor. You need to speak with them, not Stern. A taped box was
the first sign it had been opened before.
DugFreez
I had 2 problems with my NIB Black Spider-Man when I received it.
A flaky switch: It could have went bad during shipping or the
problem may have been over looked. The left return lane "E" would work
and test fine as long as the Doc Ock was in the up position...but if
he was down the switch would not work.
The second problem was an obvious Stern screw up. The diode on the
tilt was soldered on backwards. This tells me the tilt wasn't even
tested at all before leaving the factory. The stranger thing is that
when I called them about it...they said it wasn't supposed to have a
diode on it at all...even thought all of them seem to.
Anyway...small issues to get fixed once it was figured out what the
problems were. Certainly easier to fix than cosmetic problems. Good
luck on resolving your issues and try to enjoy the games you are
keeping.
- Doug
Magic Mike
fast one. You might have been sold floor demos or light use buy-backs.
Mike
mooky
probably used. call your credit card co and stop payment on all. that
should expidite your responce from mike also. he is on this group so
it won't be long im sure..
captkirk
With the LOTR I'm assuming they had to remove it from the box to
install the shaker motor? I was not aware that any of these were
shipped from the factory with the shaker motor installed.
I agree with the above post, perhaps they were floor models?
captkirk
firepower
installed at all.
I had some damage on my LOTR LE cabinet from factory that had been
"fixed" with black marker and was not due to shipping. My distributor
said that nothing is perfect, and that even new WMS / Bally games came
with flaws back in the day. I agree with the OP that any big chunks
missing from the wood are unacceptable, though.
On an LOTR LE "gold trim" will scratch and tarnish easily in normal use,
so I wouldn't panic about that unless it is truly bad. The gold finish
should be nearly perfect when opened. In my experience it will not be
as durable as chrome.
If you still want LOTR LE, ask for a new one from the summer run.
-Richard
toyboy6
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, shaker motors are not installed by Stern - they are just pre-
wired for it if you want to add it. Never let anyone else open your
NIB and install an add on. Buy them yourself and add them yourself -
easy to do, even for a novice (I would know, I've installed 2 of
them). These don't sound like Stern issues to me....
Scott
Joe Jet
Pics Please? Could be minor stuff, could be floor model - "damage" is
subjective...
AFM_TZ
I have to agree here. I received two Stern NIB last week - IM and BDK.
The BDK left flipper blew out within three games.
Thanks to RGP i traced it to a bad transistor. I was fortunate to swap
my SM board with the BDK to get it to work (but, waiting on Mike Jr to
send me a new board so i can get SM back up).
During the process, i was grateful to have RGP for help, and couldnt
help but think if this machine went to a non hobbyest. If it did, all
of the excitement of a new machine would be crushed while that person
waits days for repair men / service calls. In a more likely case - the
machine in the hands of kids - think of the dissapointment! What a let
down.
I understand this is isolated case and these things happen - BUT - i
have read its very common for transistor issues on these machines out
of the gate. I was surprised.
Now i have to ask Mike Jr at Automated where the new boards are......
JKirby
YRC is famous (or infamous) for handling cargo like rag dolls.
Joe
Bags
Welcome to the group.
I have to say, this borders on epic stupidity by the distributor. Why
in the world would you ever try to hoodwink someone who orders 5 NiB
machines? Turning would has to be considered a platinum customer into
a person who probably will never order again shows the business sense
of a mule.
If anything the distributor should have personally made sure you were
getting 5 NiB machines considering you were dropping $20k. I can't
imagine he gets the "I want 5 NiB pins" call every day, or he was so
swamped with pinball machine orders your measly 5 pins slipped through
quality control.
I am sorry you have this issue, but I do thank you for sharing. I
know who I will not buy a NiB pinball from now. I can only imagine
the level of customer service people buying only 1 NiB would get from
this particular distributor.
wbradley
I believe this is a case where the distributor needs to get this all
fixed up ASAP. Not many people buy 5 NIB machines. Unless you know the
facts, dont assume you have been hoodwinked. The shaker would have
been installed by the distributor.
I hope you didnt buy them for distributor's cost + $50, because when
you spend that much money you expect some goodwill, and goodwill costs
money.
gtr
For what its worth I just received
A Lotr Le with shaker and a Ironman with shaker
from Automated Services 2 days ago and my
machines arrived quick and in perfect NIB shape
and I am on the west coast. my previous new
Stern from Jack at pinball sales also arrived quick
and in perfect shape.
Al
Schus
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree and hopefully you got a deal for buying 5 at once....Again not
Stern's fault.....
Lloyd Olson
bought it from. LTG :)
"PINBALL PRINCESS" <XFILE...@COX.NET> wrote in message
news:d40a3e8a-f281-4e0a...@k25g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
BlackoutFan
> Games don't come from Stern taped instead of stapled. That was on who you
> bought it from. LTG :)
>
From the sound of the warning about making sure you througholy unpack
and inspect in front of the driver and if you dont its on you it
almost sounds like they knew there were problems and were banking you
didnt thouroghly unpack....your lucky you did.
Lloyd Olson
it lights up it gets boxed. LTG :)
"DugFreez" <dugf...@live.com> wrote in message
news:62f8fa92-f838-4cd7...@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> This tells me the tilt wasn't even tested at all before leaving the
> factory.
>
> - Doug
BlackoutFan
> They power them up and kick them down the line. They ain't testing them. If
> it lights up it gets boxed. LTG :)
>
>
> news:62f8fa92-f838-4cd7...@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This tells me the tilt wasn't even tested at all before leaving the
> > factory.
>
> > - Doug
Just to be clear, when I said "they" I mean the distributor not the
manufacturer. I do not believe Stern would send out pins in that
shape.
red69camaro
> few weeks now but have never posted before now. I wanted to share a
> letter I just sent to Mike Jr. of Automated Services and all 3 reps
> machines(STTNG and SWE1). I'm hoping for a peaceful resolve with this
> whole thing. If anything, I hope my problems help future NIB
> purchasers. I was not expecting these kinds of issues. If anything, I
> figured something might get damaged in shipping. However, this was
> clearly not the case. Below is the e-mail in its entirety:
>
> Hello,
>
> from the boxes. I said most because upon opening the top of the LOTR
> stapled like the others. It was taped shut. The cabinet was scratched
> up where legs had obviously already been installed. Also, the gold
> trimmed lockdown bar was badly scratched. There was no need to remove
> This may be acceptable to someone putting this on a route and it’ll
> get beaten to hell anyway, but as a private collector this is
> unacceptable!!
>
> I refused the Batman TDK with scratches down the cabinet and a chip
> missing from the cabinet as well. Shrek was equally disappointing with
> many gouges in the silk screening on one side of the cabinet. I
> refused 3 machines. The 2 I kept and documented on the invoice are not
> without their problems as well. CSI has a small chunk missing from the
> top, left of the backbox. It’s something I believe can be repaired
> with one of your qualified techs without decreasing the pins value.
> The second problem with the CSI machine is the top, back glass panel
> bar that had an obvious long gouge in it and was crudely covered up
> with a black marker. It needs to be replaced! Ironman has scuffs on
> its cabinet as well and also needs to be fixed.
>
> I realize that there is no such thing as, “Perfect” when it comes to
> believe the majority of these problems are not minor, nor the miss-
> treatment in the handling by the shippers. These problems weren’t
> caused by shipping. These problems are due to the poor quality of
> Stern products and its lack of quality control. I hope to have this
> matter resolved ASAP. If this is a fluke and this kind of thing is
> rare, I’d be willing to have replacement pins shipped out and give
> this one more try. If however, I am correct and this sub-standard
> quality is business as usual for Stern, then I want a full refund,
> including shipping for the 3 refused pins and a qualified tech to fix
> the 2 I kept.
>
> I really do hope I’m wrong and this really IS a fluke. I love pinball.
> I love the art of pinball. Pinballs are beautiful machines and it
> seems to be a dying art form. Imagine the excitement of gettingnew
> pins turning into this huge sick, sinking feeling upon opening these
> boxes. I am so disappointed that I can’t even begin to put it into
> purchase from Stern
>
> Not only did I document everything on the inventory sheet, I also
> photographed everything. I will gladly send these to you if you want
> them.
>
> Looking forward to your reply,
>
> Shelley
stern is not the problem,its automated services,ive delt with this
joker before and had the same problems,he deals in factory seconds and
blemishes,i stopped using him when this happened over and over,and his
help wasn't there either,no return phone calls and no support,DANGER
THIS GUY IS BAD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!
JeffM
I bought a NIB game from Automated Services and had great service. Had
a scratch on the cabinet. I called them and they delivered a brand new
game, no questions asked.
--
JeffM
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underlord
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree, Automated Services was great to me also. Had no problems
with Mike Jr or April.
--Rick.
g1teg
absolutely has some QC issues. We unboxed 3 IM's for the Premier Party
here in B'ham and had issues with all three. 2 of the 3 had major and
minor problems with IronMonger toy working correctly. The 3rd
apparently worked great, until the tournament. It repeatedly would
lose power to the flippers, and after 3 experienced techs tried to
resolve the problem with no success, we pulled the PDB from a working
24 pin and had no more problems.
I personally bought a NIB BDK and it had some very minor marks
doctored up with a marker. I was OK with that, but the game only
shipped with 3 balls. It's a 4 ball game!
I love pinball and I'm very glad that Stern is still in business. I
hope they remain, but they have some work to do.