CREECHY HOLOGRAM - Feedback Thread - CPR Wants Your Opinions
Classic Playfield Reproductions
With the latest posts regarding more failing Creech holograms, Mike and I
are ready to get people talking about alternative solutions because we've
been quietly researching this for months and were looking at the new year to
make final strides in a decision to move forward to provide relief via a new
(original) CPR product.
Our proposed idea is a "CFTBL Mod" which is a hologram offering + light kit
& possible motion armature enhancement kit (with assistance from PinBits).
Special thanks to Martin Reynolds who has been on the case with us through
the last several months.
Since the original Universal Creature and all it's likenesses are off the
table, and not allowed, our idea was always to step back to square one and
think outside the box. For example, offering an 8x10 hologram of a 3D
turnip has nothing to do with pinball, Williams, or Universal Studios.
Likewise, a hologram of a screaming woman, muddy hands, or bulrushes are
also not in infringement (or licensed) in any way shape or form. They can
be hung on a wall, they can be framed on a coffee table. We have no
intention of barking up Universal's or Williams' tree with this. People can
decide to frame the hologram and put it on their desk or put it inside their
TZ pinball machine, or their CFTBL machine....it's none of our business. :)
So with this compromise on subject matter in the hologram, comes the
decision of the pinball community at large. If you want it, we WILL have it
made. We've already got 80+ hours of communication, quality samples, and
committments from a chosen studio we've worked with so far. We've got the
finances in order to float the project. The final piece of the puzzle is IF
and WHAT:
Our offering would involve a modern 3D hologram with up to 180 frames (2
seconds) of fluid motion. Shot on an actual soundstage with or without live
actors involved (depends on content chosen) and using a moving-arc camera.
The substrate lasts 25 to 50 years, depending on exposure and handling.
They would be superior in every way to any past or present hologram offering
done on the old-school green s.halide or polaroid systems. So there is the
IF.
The question of WHAT would be the content of the 2-second motion in the
hologram. What would you all suggest? We're looking for people to fire
out suggestions on here. Keep in mind - NO Universal Creature. So...
blinking evil eyes in the dark? Screaming woman? Woman being strangled
from behind? Muddy hands parting the grass? Post follow-ups with your
ideas and thoughts.
We'll nail down several of the suggestions from this thread and start a poll
at our web site. The winner of the poll will be the theme made. It's that
easy.
Timeframe proposed on this process will be a) polling to the end of the year
b) January getting the final theme to the studio and getting the shoot
booked c) production of the holograms in February and March d) for sale by
late March or into April
Estimated price on these holograms will be $125 to $150 - yes, you read
that correctly.
--
KEVIN WAYTE
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com
GOCATGO
Kevin
Great news...I think anyway.
Can you make a hologram that slightly resembles the creature, or can
that even rock the boat?
Best of luck to you in your efforts. I'll keep a look out for your
poll on the web site. Maybe you could make an announcement here when
that is up.
Russ
www.Team-EM.com
my_spacies
maybe use these monster hands
mega...@hotmail.com
hands would be rather creature like.
ldnayman
Magic Mike
> the grass?
Just as long as it's not Metallik swimming up from the bottom of the
playfield, I'm good. ; )
Mike
bwodie
As the person who posted the last thread on my holo being "red" yeah I
would be interested for sure.
I need to see how mine looks in a game.. not sure how bad a reddy
green creature will look! lol
can someone give me some background on what the deal is with the
creature coming on?
Its when you start a multiball where you are trying to save the women?
then the holo starts up and you see the creature (i looked on you
tube)
what effect are they actually going for
Jeff S
initially interested. Since the machine is CFTBL and all artwork and
hologram were based on the movie, seems like your hologram should be
too. I understand your hesitation about licensing issues, but picking
something less related to the movie does not hold any appeal for me.
Isn't there someone out there who can shed some light on the legal
impacts from basing the reproduction on the Universal monsters given
the amount of time that has passed since its initial public release.
JeffS
ATL
bwodie
Surely we can find something related to the movie thats not
copyrighted. we just need to be clever! :)
Jim D. in TN
> Isn't there someone out there who can shed some light on the legal
> impacts from basing the reproduction on the Universal monsters given
> the amount of time that has passed since its initial public release.
No need for a discussion of copyright law on this one. It's not old
enough to have fallen into the public domain. FYI, the remake of
CFTBL movie is due out in 2009.
Classic Playfield Reproductions
"Jim D. in TN" <jd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c6874c1d-2e05-4e51...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
I'll stress again, no Universal Creature. No gloves, no anything to do with
the Creature.
This is where we're asking for creativity. Pretend you didn't know what was
"supposed to" be on the holo....what would be a brand new image?
Other posters on here are correct... there should be hundreds of ideas that
would theme with the drive-in movie idea or creepy swamp or monstery scare.
This is precisely what we are looking for. So suggestions on imagery is
what we need posted here.
Someone mentioned that if it's not the Universal Creature, it won't be
intriguing. We understand the "purist" view, but think it's definitely
possible to top the original look. Topping a standstill model of a Creature
holding out its hand is easily toppable. The original model never moved and
the holo had no motion. The light beam just swung back and forth. It's a
still picture. We think a 180-frame 2-second animation in crisp 3D
holography would *definitely* trick-out a Creech machine. Think of it as we
originally proposed it - a mod for your game. With the original holograms
pretty much all dead, and the repro's being sold out (and some dying), we're
creative enough in the community to trump this issue with something else
that is better.
So there's been a couple suggestions... we'd like to have a good 7 to 10
ideas. Anybody else? Put on your thinking caps. :)
vinito
Theater" and there are a bunch of things happening on the game that
don't have much to do with the creature movie. How about muddy hands
fumbling with the latch on a bra strap? That's a more common climactic
moment at the drive in than any movie ever was. Pretty nostalgic too.
I'm getting get a little misty just typing about it.
I've never reached that moment on the game so I don't know what's
happening with the sounds at that point, but I never paid much
attention to the movie while fumbling with a bra strap either, so I
think it fits perfectly.
Did I win yet?
vinito
trying to tie in a thought with a previous post.
I still like the bra strap thing though. Comedy is received well in
games. Bare-back of a woman = sexy & suggestive. Good for pinball. Fun
during auditions & filming too ;)
bwodie
the window has sea weed and shit
it has to be something gloomy, b grade horror, etc etc
Magic Mike
I think that the key word here is: ambiguity. Your best horror movies
are the ones that never show you anything but instead, just lets the mind
wander.
For example, a shadowy image of a 'creature' swimming up from the murky
depths. However, once the 'creature' is about to surface, bubbles and sea
debris obscure everything!
Best idea so far?
Mike
Beemus
Bathing suit girl in the "Black Lagoon Arcade", as depicted by a sign
overhead, (or "Lagoon Arcade" if 'Black Lagoon' isn't allowed), She is
shown from the back or side (give us some curves please) standing/
playing at a pin, she turns her head and blows a kiss. Again, generous
with the curves please... only some rockin tits would make me forget
about the creature... but clean enough to sell obviously.
I'm not sure how a hologram not depicting something going on in the
BLACK LAGOON or its caves would work since that's what the center
window represents.
Honorable Mentions:
Rick Astley hologram
Sponge Bob
Geicko Gecko (get a free rate quote!)
On Nov 16, 7:07 pm, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
<inboxNOS...@classicplayfields.com> wrote:
> To RGP,
David B.
out to the lobby!" going on.
Classic Playfield Reproductions
>shown from the back or side (give us some curves please) standing/
>playing at a pin, she turns her head and blows a kiss. Again, generous
>with the curves please... only some rockin tits would make me forget
>about the creature... but clean enough to sell obviously.
Doesn't have to be as clean as you may think....
Actually, from what I have been led to believe about the studio shoot,
nudity IS an option. Frontal nudity included. There is a chance I am wrong
on this, but some of the holo's the studio has in stock (for example) have
full frontal nudity. I'll ask next time I am in contact with the owner.
The shoot can be whatever we want it to be, and respective models hired to
comply. Just so its out there, now y'all know. So if some of the ideas are
of the nudity realm, you don't have to be shy about mentioning them. We
want a good amount of suggestions.
TMFP
the window demands it
as somebody said above, bubbles rising and something coming through
the bubbles
bwodie
another vote, it has to be something undersea, and something to do
with that sort of theme
gman
Kevin,
how about a guy & girl making out in a car (like the one in the game)
or any car(convertible) at the drive-in
and to there surprize the ground shakes & breaks open and they sink
in to what looks like a swamp with bubbles that float to the top ???
OldTimer
"Classic Playfield Reproductions" <inbox...@classicplayfields.com> wrote
in message news:0e5Uk.1286$o15.618@edtnps83...
> To RGP,
>
> >
> Estimated price on these holograms will be $125 to $150 - yes, you read
> that correctly.
That much for a non-licensed generic holo? No wonder you were stoking the
flames of destruction of the IPB versions... even though there has been one
(maybe two) reports of problems. Yes I know you know the creator intimately,
know the "hidden" scoop" (holy classified info Batman), yadda yadda... ;-)
Still the IPB version is unavailable anyways so I'm sure there are still
people out there looking for some kind of alternative.
Loosey
Yep, best idea so far. I agree that it definitely has to be something
related to the swamp as that is what the window represents. A shadowy
figure done the right way could work nicely.
Dave
Ron - NY
lagoon, and when the music starts and the ramp goes down and you hear a
scream and the lagoon lights up, it seems in obvious context that your
expecting a monster to appear. My vote is for the idea of something that
resembles the creech but is obscured enough by the bubbles, then maybe end
it with the eyes glaring through the bubbles or something.
Ron
"bwodie" <bwo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:61926e7f-9d1b-4981...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Ron - NY
some cleavage) trying to escape the creature by swimming up to the surface,
then something from the bottom that you don't see but is obviously the
creech, grabs her feet and you can see her being dragged back down to the
bottom with a horrified look on here face as she disappears and fades to the
bottom of the lagoon.
Ron
"Classic Playfield Reproductions" <inbox...@classicplayfields.com> wrote
in message news:0e5Uk.1286$o15.618@edtnps83...
skbrothers
Woman in water up to her chest (Filmed from off angle top down)
She screams as she is being pulled under the water.
You don't need to show a monster's hand at all. Just her screaming as
she goes under.
Remember, the multiball mode is about finding the girl in one of three
underwater caves so the image ties in.
Now that I say this, I realize that the hologram doesn't come on until
you've found the cave she's in so maybe the above doesn't work
completely.
A variation then would be the reverse shot.
Girl rising up out of the water screaming. or maybe she's smiling (As
you've just "rescued" her).
You could offer both a PG-13 or an R rated version. In other words,
bikini top or no bikini top
Would certainly motivate a young lad (Or old one for that matter) to
"Save the girl", wouldnit it ;-)
Steve
miracleman
THAT BEING SAID...
Any 'fix' needs to be MECHANICAL.
Something that takes an available legal product, like an action
figure, full head mask, etc. and MOVES IT on a motor or whatever.
The clear plexi on the playfield needs to be replaced with one of
those magnifying lenses that makes whatever in underneath seem to get
closer as it moves the couple inches that the motor/arm/mechanism is
capable of.
The new magnifying lens for the pf would prob'ly be the most expensive
part of this solution to make.
KYPinGuy
> how about a scene of the woman with a scared look on her face ( throw in
> some cleavage) trying to escape the creature by swimming up to the surface,
> then something from the bottom that you don't see but is obviously the
> creech, grabs her feet and you can see her being dragged back down to the
> bottom with a horrified look on here face as she disappears and fades to the
> bottom of the lagoon.
> Ron
>
> in messagenews:0e5Uk.1286$o15.618@edtnps83...
That's exactly what I was thinking! Be generous with that
cleavage! :-)
jackb...@yahoo.com
one or two guys snorkling like the movie. Then have one's eyes get
wide a like they are scared and turn to swim to the surface while the
water gets murky and something grabs his ankle from the murk and pulls
him down, maybe as the other guy turns to help while wielding a knife
or spear gun ....... Would likely have to be careful to insure the dude
(s) don't look like the original actors of course ....
David
cch...@comcast.net
a hundred bucks for a knock-off? No thanks.
-cody
--CARGPB4
On Nov 16, 9:07 pm, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
Taxman
the darkness of a cave. If you have a couple of seconds of motion
then the seaweed could be moving, bubble going up and the eyes blink.
But if you did a nude one with a girl swimming or screaming it would
go great with one of those 20 playfields.
Dave "Taxman"
Sonic
Why is the Universal Creature off the table? You never said
why....cost? I mean, it is a crucial element of the game and if the
license drives the cost up to $200-$250 range - I assume people would
spend that (as they did for the IPB repro), or more. Just asking....
Why are the original/repro holo's failing? Since you know the
manufacturer....of course it bothers me why they would repro a part
that would eventually fail, and not try to fix the problem when the
repro's were run. I'm not sure that manufacturer is someone I'd be
dealing with in the future - their integrity is a bit suspect.
The solution? Get off the holo bit then. Why should we believe your
holo solution will last as the previous attempts over nearly 20 years
now - have not? Go mechanical. Make up a mod for the pin that fits
with a "Sideshow" Creature. Let folks buy the Sideshow product at
their hearts desire and you sell the rig for the pin. You could carry
that a step further and have Sideshow make a certain size/look for
this project - team up with them. I'd imagine a 7" Sideshow Creature
and some new hardware in the pin wouldn't cost more than $200.
Matt
skbrothers
If I'm not mistaken (Kevin, Chime in here) the scene needs to play out
over TWO SECONDS.
That's not alot of time to tell a story.
Needs to be short, sweet and to the point.
Steve
Kenbo
sings "Stranded at the drive-in" in Grease?
Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic
and not allowed". If the cost of the "new" hologram is going to be in
the $150 range, even a $50 licensing fee to Universal for *some*
creature likeness isn't unreasonable, if that results in a hologram
that retains the theme of the movie and the game. The movie was about
the creature - not the girl, not swamp gas bubbling up from the
depths. Anything else is just a stand-in for what *should* be there.
I think it would be great to have a hologram with a life span that
will outlast most owners, and I commend you for investigating this
project.
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
On Nov 16, 10:07 pm, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
CraigC -CPM-
from the player, then turning toward the player with a look of terror
would fit pretty well.
-c
On Nov 16, 9:07 pm, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
<inboxNOS...@classicplayfields.com> wrote:
> To RGP,
>
> With the latest posts regarding more failing Creech holograms, Mike and I
> are ready to get people talking about alternative solutions because we've
> been quietly researching this for months and were looking at the new year to
> make final strides in a decision to move forward to provide relief via a new
> (original) CPR product.
>
> Our proposed idea is a "CFTBL Mod" which is a hologram offering + light kit
> & possible motion armature enhancement kit (with assistance from PinBits).
> Special thanks to Martin Reynolds who has been on the case with us through
> the last several months.
>
> Since the original Universal Creature and all it's likenesses are off the
> table, and not allowed, our idea was always to step back to square one and
chad....@gmail.com
> Please clarify *why* likenesses of the creature are "off the table,
> and not allowed".
I'm guessing because they aren't copyright attorneys and attorneys
drive up costs more than anything you could involve.
This is a great and cool idea, but frankly, I'd rather see the
playfields that are months behind the original release dates.
Joey
the theme of the window. With this newer hologram technology, you
could get a whole scene going on. I'm picturing the window becoming
lit up like a shimmering lagoon with swimming fish and moving plants.
I like including Ron-NY's idea at this point with a woman swimming to
the surface and a hand pulling her back into the murk. OR even just
have all this lagoon activity with the swimming fish, moving plants,
light rays moving around on the refracted surface of the water and
then a hand coming up and swatting at the window.
ldnayman
To be fair the creature doesn't exactly run around raping, strangling,
and drowning women. Shouldn't a phony holo-knockoff at least try to
stick with the theme?
Why not just "alter" the creature a bit? Give him two sets of gills or
change up his face a little or something?
seymour-shabow
> On Nov 17, 12:10 pm, ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Why not just "alter" the creature a bit? Give him two sets of gills or
>> change up his face a little or something?
>
CPR is licensed through Wayne.......
-scott CARGPB#29
ldnayman
Great! So stick a fin on his head and slightly alter his eyes and lips
and get on with it.
Seriously this isn't rocket science...people have been doing shit like
this for years. Pink Floyd (1987 ltd.) famously stuck a huge pair of
balls on their inflatable pigs in 1987 so Roger Waters wouldn't sue
them. Not that I'm suggesting sticking some balls on the
Creature...but then again...
Pin Snob
How about a scream or two from someone in similar hair, makeup,
wardrobe then fading into the water. Shot staying on the torso. Just
scream then into the water.
I would go for an overhead shot of a monster/sea monster playing
pinball then looking up/out at the player like "what are you lookin'
at?"
JMHO
D.
brokenvette
> Here is a scream queen that looks really authentic.
>
>
> How about a scream or two from someone in similar hair, makeup,
> wardrobe then fading into the water. Shot staying on the torso. Just
> scream then into the water.
>
> I would go for an overhead shot of a monster/sea monster playing
> pinball then looking up/out at the player like "what are you lookin'
> at?"
>
> JMHO
>
> D.
If it aint the creature it aint worth putting it on my game. Someone
made it once, it should be able to be made again. If Wayno licenses
CPR then why cant he get the rights to do another holo.
That being said you could do a lizard-fish man type face comming out
of the murk.
madsygrl
probably go along with what's going on at the time during the game .
(DMD animation) Otherwise it won't make much sense.
MAD
On Nov 16, 11:55 pm, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
<inboxNOS...@classicplayfields.com> wrote:
> "Jim D. in TN" <jd_12...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:c6874c1d-2e05-4e51...@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 16, 11:28 pm, Jeff S <je...@jeffspinballpalace.com> wrote:
>
> > Isn't there someone out there who can shed some light on the legal
> > impacts from basing the reproduction on the Universal monsters given
> > the amount of time that has passed since its initial public release.
> >No need for a discussion of copyright law on this one. It's not old
> >enough to have fallen into the public domain. FYI, the remake of
> >CFTBL movie is due out in 2009.
>
> I'll stress again, no Universal Creature. No gloves, no anything to do with
> the Creature.
>
> This is where we're asking for creativity. Pretend you didn't know what was
> "supposed to" be on the holo....what would be a brand new image?
>
> Other posters on here are correct... there should be hundreds of ideas that
> would theme with the drive-in movie idea or creepy swamp or monstery scare.
> This is precisely what we are looking for. So suggestions on imagery is
> what we need posted here.
>
> Someone mentioned that if it's not the Universal Creature, it won't be
> intriguing. We understand the "purist" view, but think it's definitely
> possible to top the original look. Topping a standstill model of a Creature
> holding out its hand is easily toppable. The original model never moved and
> the holo had no motion. The light beam just swung back and forth. It's a
> still picture. We think a 180-frame 2-second animation in crisp 3D
> holography would *definitely* trick-out a Creech machine. Think of it as we
> originally proposed it - a mod for your game. With the original holograms
> pretty much all dead, and the repro's being sold out (and some dying), we're
> creative enough in the community to trump this issue with something else
> that is better.
>
> So there's been a couple suggestions... we'd like to have a good 7 to 10
> ideas. Anybody else? Put on your thinking caps. :)
Classic Playfield Reproductions
>over TWO SECONDS.
>That's not alot of time to tell a story.
>Needs to be short, sweet and to the point.
Absolutely dead-on correct.
And the 2 seconds is maximum, with a full left-right pan of the hologram (if
you held it in your hands for example). The problem with the Creech
mechanism is that the pan is not a full 90 degreens, it's limited to
probably 50 to 60 degrees...so you'd get the middle 65 to 70% of the
complete motion. Thus we're also looking at a potential mechanism mod with
the help of PinBits. The idea being the armature/reflector swings deeper
side to side.
So we're looking at 1.5 seconds of movement in the end, that rocks back and
forth, the action repeating forwards and backwards (keep that in mind).
It's got to be something that "loops" naturally, although technically it's
not a loop. It goes beginning->end, then end->beginning, and so on....
Kenbo
<mpurs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I think one challenge will be that whatever is put down there SHOULD
>probably go along with what's going on at the time during the game .
>(DMD animation) Otherwise it won't make much sense.
>
>MAD
Oh c'mon, a dancing hot dog *always* makes sense :)
Classic Playfield Reproductions
"Pin Snob" <gro...@lawsuitguitars.com> wrote in message
news:49c2863d-2f4f-4ee6...@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> Here is a scream queen that looks really authentic.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Breaker-Accept/dp/B0007ZBG1U/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1226944395&sr=8-15
>
> How about a scream or two from someone in similar hair, makeup,
> wardrobe then fading into the water. Shot staying on the torso. Just
> scream then into the water.
It's funny you found that picture because the image of a "shocked woman"
gasping like that was exactly the first idea I had. That photo is dead on
what my idea was. :) The cyclical motion of the animation (in my idea) was
that muddy hands come out of the dark from behind her and clasp around her
neck, as her face exclaims to a scream....then it reverses, hands slip off
her neck in reverse, the scream leaves her face, and it starts over again.
Keep in mind folks, the animation can be around 1.5 seconds with the limited
rocking motion of the mechanism in the machine. It also has to be a
cyclical action.
twilightzonepinball
Much easier to use a real 3D toy and light it. Cheaper too. I haven't
seen the hologram, but the ones I have seen are not that interesting.
The money could be better spent on lighting effects that would look
cool.
-Tom
Pinball Basics DVD
1st
Chris
1st
They sell those DVD players for about $50 now don't they?
A lot less hassle/repair (no mechanicals) and much useful for other
mods.
Chris
brokenvette
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can we buy the creature from MB and put it under there with a green
filter over the light? You obviously cant make it if you cant make the
holo. I think its a copout from Gene however that he made them once
and he cant make them again. I would buy another one if they were made
better cuz the game aint shit without the hologram.
Heres another Idea. Why cant we make something like a photo cell and
put it where the holo should be.
Adrian Godwin
> The question of WHAT would be the content of the 2-second motion in the
> hologram. What would you all suggest? We're looking for people to fire
> out suggestions on here. Keep in mind - NO Universal Creature. So...
> blinking evil eyes in the dark? Screaming woman? Woman being strangled
> from behind? Muddy hands parting the grass? Post follow-ups with your
> ideas and thoughts.
>
A figure making the classic creature moves, but recognisably someone
other than the creature. Maybe (for all sorts of different reasons) :
Dubya Bush (joke scary)
Homer Simpson (joke)
Uncle Fester (joke)
Steve Ballmer (substitute for fester)
Wayne (monster)
Marty Feldman (just a great look)
Dr Flash (who else deserves to be there ?)
Pin Snob
a creature to go on a stick. TeeHee. I figured the trolls would be all
over it so........
Here is one. Maybe not the best.
There should be many "action figures" coming out with the new movie
coming out.
There are many filters that you could buy for the underside of the
glass to distort or make look like water.
The real 3D thing may be somewhat of an upgrade over dying Holograms.
Just thinking out of the box.
D.
> put it where the holo should be.- Hide quoted text -
CraigC -CPM-
-c
Adrian Godwin
> The license issue is not with WMS but with Universal. Gene Says he
> paid HUGE money for that license. We are not talking about it adding
> $50 to the cost of the holos but several times that. We spoke with
> Universal a while back and although they could find no record of
> Gene's license we were told a license of that type would easily cost
> what he claimed to have paid. Its a big company so its possible we
> just spoke to the wrong person. Anyhow, unless we could spread the
> cost of the holo out over many many hundred of examples then the cost
> is just prohibitive. Remember these are just not cheap to make any way
> you cut it. The cost of the holos themselves is just too expensive and
> nothing is to be gained by trying to cheap out and make another half
> baked attempt that is destined to fade away in just a short time. If
> its going to be done it has to be done with modern holography
> techniques that will last a long time.
>
The original 3D version of the movie is claimed by ebay sellers to be
public domain. If this is true, is it possible to make a projection
consisting of a short clip from the film ?
Obviously it's easy to do this in 2D with a small DVD player, but the moving
holo technology might be able to reproduce the original 3D effect.
-adrian
J.G. Wentworth
>
>Mike Purcell <Mi...@classicplayfields.com> wrote:
Those eBay sellers make that claim to try to avoid having their auctions
cancelled.
But, make no mistake - the film, be it 2-D or 3-D, is fully protected by
copyright law.
BP
the suit), treading water...lends itself to forever swimming as the
holo loops, bubbles popping all around and near the surface,
concentric rings moving away from the girl she'd bob up and down just
a bit...with an ever darkening area behind with the shape of something
there, ccould be a croc, could be the creech. This darkening would
fade in/fade out as it loops...I see a few catails or something along
the edge to tie into the lens..
If you extend hands out of any shape out, to go for the girl, they
would come up and down...1.5 to 2 seconds is a pretty good amount of
film of loop...But I'm a big fan of the shimmering water, with bubbles
coming up, and the girl...we all love the girl...full frontal would be
nice, but then means some kids wouldn't get to play...but get that hot
girl in there, and I'll be buying the game again for sure...
If you go with the dancing hot dog...make a replacement lens.
goatdan
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:27:27 -0800 (PST), madsygrl
>
> >I think one challenge will be that whatever is put down there SHOULD
> >probably go along with what's going on at the time during the game .
> >(DMD animation) Otherwise it won't make much sense.
>
> >MAD
>
> Oh c'mon, a dancing hot dog *always* makes sense :)
Come to the snack bar!
Spend all your money!
Come to the snack bar
Eat 'em up, yummy!
goatdan
I don't remember exactly what is going on at that point in the game to
come up with any strong suggestions, however I feel like unless you
can get the action of the game to match up with exactly what is going
on there, it wouldn't make sense to have anything else there. For
instance, if the holo shows up at the start of multiball, you could
have bubbling water with pinballs "coming through it" and the word
"Multi-Ball!" appearing and disappearing while the balls floated
around, and that wouldn't look bad.
Whatever it is that you do, it *has* to be game related in one way or
the other because even if I thought it would be funny to upgrade it to
a woman cowering (or whatever -- and by the way, while gratuitous
nudity would sell to a point, it also makes less sense in the theme),
I probably wouldn't want to do it for that cost. I would be more
inclined to save for a old Creech holo, or figure out a mechanical way
to put an action figure or something in there instead.
TheKorn
news:1f5be8c7-f3d1-4f9a...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
> Woman in water up to her chest (Filmed from off angle top down)
>
> She screams as she is being pulled under the water.
>
> You don't need to show a monster's hand at all. Just her screaming as
> she goes under.
...then she pops back up and inhales REALLY visibly, then screams again,
goes under water, pops back up again and inhales really visibly, repeat ad
nauseum. :)
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the
web or on DVD?
TheKorn
news:27a0bf31-fea0-46fc...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
> If it's not the Creature, what's the point? You're still talking over
> a hundred bucks for a knock-off? No thanks.
I concur. If you're going to do a "cheap chinese knockoff", then I expect
to pay a cheap chinese knockoff price. (A Sorny TV for $200? No way. A
Sorny TV for $45? Sure!)
Classic Playfield Reproductions
>> a hundred bucks for a knock-off? No thanks.
>
> I concur. If you're going to do a "cheap chinese knockoff", then I expect
> to pay a cheap chinese knockoff price. (A Sorny TV for $200? No way. A
> Sorny TV for $45? Sure!)
Unfortunately nothing is "cheap" nor "chinese" about getting ANY hologram
made, especially 180-frame motion holograms. It could be a hologram of a
rolling turnip, or the best Universal Creature you ever saw, the price of
$125 to $150 is *amazing* - because I scoured the globe to find a studio
that could get us into the $100 range. Believe me, this was totally
intentional. But it wasn't in china. It was actually in europe - in the
area where the best worldwide facilities are, including the motion camera
studio.
Remember, the IPB static holograms on the oldschool green film were ~$250
retail, sold out, and are now changing hands for $400 to $600, right ?
$125 to $150 for a modern 180-frame hologram is, believe me, amazingly rock
bottom. We're nearly doing it as a favor, the price is so low. :) We'd
also have to sell 95% of them just to break even. Precisely why the content
is soooo crucial here. If overwhelmingly a lot of people aren't on board,
we can't have them made. Period. I bet nobody knows that costs of
holographic film alone have *quadrupled* in the last 2 years. The industry
is struggling right now, and all the studio owners were very upfront about
the outrageous costs. Just go back to the thread from 48 hours ago called
"Another new IPB holo turns red" and one of the posters copy-pasted a
quotation from a holographic studio.... $100,000 to get (300) 8x10
multi-frame holograms made, with a light kit each. That's $333 each
folks...before any freight, brokerage, or even a pittance of a markup for
the time spent.... We wouldn't even be having this offer possible if I
hadn't found the shop in europe.
We knew from the beginning that for a non-Creech hologram, essentially a mod
for the game, the price has got to be in the low $100's range, or it's just
not going to fly.
Here is the quotation in case you all missed it (from RabbitHoles Motion
Holograms):
- - -
Hamish,
Thank you for interest in our RabbitHoles 3D Motion Holograms. Our
medium will allow you to show the Creature from the Black Lagoon in
full-color and 3D, and will allow him to animate as the viewers walk
past the print. The use of animation in the 3D Motion Holograms does
not effect the pricing, except for how much more your 3D artist
charges for the model to be animated!
What type of animation are you imagining? Are you planning on creating
background imagery? Having foreground and background objects in your
RabbitHole create built-in perspective and enhance the 3D effect of
the holograms.
RabbitHoles Media can produce a series of (300) 10"w by 7"h landscape
RabbitHoles at $200/print for a print cost of $60,000. Additionally,
there is a $2,000 image setup fee and a minimum project production fee
of $1000. For this size print, we have a lighting solution that is
less than $100/unit. Roughly, the project will cost on the order of
$100,000 and can be completed within 5-6 weeks of content approval.
Please let me know if you would like to discuss any other details of
this project or how we can maximize the effectiveness of your content
for presentation in a RabbitHoles 3D Motion Hologram. Also, a formal
bid can be provided on request.
Thank you again for your interest in RabbitHoles and I look forward to
bringing the Creature from the Black Lagoon to life!
Sincerely,
Robert Metcalf
RabbitHoles Media, Inc
Director, US Sales and Engineering
626.319.5326
- - -
homebrood
The Rolling Turnips!
Was looking for a good name for my band...Thank You!!!
Sonic
Why not a Creech? Too much? Too complicated? If it's $300 a holo -
seems people would pay.
Why are the originals, and the repro's failing? Why wouldn't yours
fail?
Why not team with Sideshow, or similar, and devise a rig that would
have a actual 3D, full color, Creature model move around under the
lagoon window?
Classic Playfield Reproductions
"Sonic" <mattm...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fe119db1-d8d3-440f...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Kevin - Still have a few questions you haven't answered....
>
> Why not a Creech? Too much? Too complicated? If it's $300 a holo -
> seems people would pay.
Mike may want to chime in here if he reads the thread... he knows better the
background regarding the licensing woes. I know for right now, we wanted to
explore the weather for an alternative that is inexpensive. Sure, there are
a few dozen people that would pay $300... but what happens to the 20X that
many CFTBL owners that have faded out or jet black holograms that just can't
afford $300 to replace it. They just ignore it in their game. $300
holograms don't solve the problem of the dead/dying holograms that have the
next 3 to 5 years and they are ALL gross for guaranteed sure - in every
Creech, everywhere. The only guys with nice holo's will be the ones sitting
on the hundred or so IPB repro's. The solution needs to encompass both
affordability and an improvement over the original look, or it's just more
of the same and at a heavy price tag. We want something where *everybody*
can pay. So $125 was our target price. Thus keeping the Universal
licensing out of the picture was key.
If we want to get into licensing and get the actual Creature involved, then
we start approaching the $200-$250 price tag, minimum.... Mike would know
better, but it could possibly be more. Hologram pricing has at least
doubled (possibly tripled) since IPB ran theirs. The cost of film
quadrupled over the last 2 years. At $200 to $250 we're already in a price
range where only the "richer" Creech owners would be the customer base. The
economic times aren't hot right now. We wanted the hologram to be around
the price of a plastic set, or it just isn't going to sell. IPB's repro
already knocked 100 or so buyers off the table. Another run of 100 would
probably not sell out. It's a sticky situation unless the entire Creech
populous are potential buyers... $125 is "do-able" for most Creech owners.
$300 is not. An armature kit and light kit is also a must, so people are
also looking at a further $50 or so for a complete package. We wanted the
entire idea, hologram, enhancements, and shipping to be sub-$200.
We can probably contact IPB and check the status of their Universal license,
if it's still in effect (not expired), and see if we can piggyback another
project off it. We're not opposed to partnership for licensing at all. We
just wanted to avoid it for these very subtle cost factors as described
above. The price "sweet spot" may not be of concern to many who have the
money (at any price) to buy. But to us it's a very important part of the
puzzle.
Also, if it's $300 a holo and we're doing 100 for example, that makes the
bankbook required to float the project (up front) be $30,000 with no
guarantees on time to get it back in sales...depending on how sales of $300
holograms go. It's a little scary and unknown at that price. We don't want
to be left sitting on the bag.
If it's a $125 holo, we're only floating $12,500.... less than half the
risk... but likelyhood of way better sales because its so afforable.
>
> Why are the originals, and the repro's failing? Why wouldn't yours
> fail?
The modern holos are not done on the old green or blue halide film. They
are done on a modern film that lasts like a 35mm camera film negative. I
still have negatives from my camera from 20 years ago that would still make
perfect prints if I ever wanted to use them. Think of it that way.
> Why not team with Sideshow, or similar, and devise a rig that would
> have a actual 3D, full color, Creature model move around under the
> lagoon window?
We don't have the time to go down such a road in design and planning. We're
swamped with backglasses, playfields, plastics sets. We didn't want to get
into molding toys or designing anything like a flea circus to put on a show
under the playfield. The only reason we considered doing the holo thing is
because it's outsourced to a european shop that will take 2 months to make
them - on their time. We had the bankroll to float the project. We had the
time and means to sell them via our website and distributors. And a holo
being an easy mod, it just had to be something that was close enough to
original function so it wasn't a foreign concept to Creech owners. I'd be
scared to death to invest in a figurine/model set that installed under the
playfield and moved around... that's a whole different conversation. :)
Whether people would buy into that product seems like a steep risk to me...
remember, one needs to be confident 100+ people would be ready to buy or we
just won't go forward with the run.
Sonic
your best bet is finding an existing figurine that works (let folks
buy them separate from Sideshow or wherever) and build a simple rig to
the existing motors (or use a shaker motor) to move the creature
around a little bit and be done...sounds like a foolproof solution
that one would argue is an improvement over the holo.
Otherwise, if you really think about what you are looking to do for
your holo, you'd realize that since pins are collectibles and they
don't make them anymore (well, the Creech that is) - the same care/
cost we put into playfields/backglasses should be done here as well. I
would never 'cheapen' my game with a silly non-original - vaguely
thematic hologram if it wasn't THE Creature - that's the whole point
of the game is to find the "Creature". Or look more deeply into
Gene's license and try to make an improved Creature holo.
3D "Sideshow"esque model or Creature holo is all anybody on this
newsgroup is really going to agree upon, otherwise your proposal won't
sell.
One last comment, understand that the original/repro's were made
similarly (halide film) but the reality is that heat destroys the
holograms (find someone that has owned a HUO for nearly all its life
and I'm sure the holo is green) and as long as folks keep them in a
cool storage place (like wine) or in their games installed - they
actually will likely last a long time...not a couple years....
1st
Or at least run a vote style like you do for playfields.
Name, e-mail, phone number, address.
At least that would let you know if you should really put time into
the license issue.
A: I would buy a non-creech holo at $175.
B: I would buy a creech holo at $400.
I still find it hard to believe that licensing can be THAT much when
there are creech toys, halloween costumes, etc.
Or is it the PINBALL part of the licensing that is so pricey?
Chris
On Nov 18, 1:36 am, "Classic Playfield Reproductions"
TheKorn
reprint the translite and the side art...
...I don't *own* a "topless woman in the reeds" pinball machine.
...I don't *own* a "blinking eyes in the murk" pinball machine.
...I don't *own* a "night out at the snack bar" pinball machine.
What I DO own is a Creature From the Black Lagoon pinball machine. You
*could* make the most AMAZING hologram of a shoe that'll last three
million years and survive a nuclear holocaust. But at $150 I'm just
*not* going to be interested in putting it my *Creature*.
(*Maybe* I'd be interested in a hologram of the ship crashing on the
waves, but that's about damn impossible to capture on a hologram!)
ldnayman
Again, this is a "Creature" game, not a "torture women" game. I must
have missed the part of the movie where a woman was being strangled,
drowned, raped etc. Not too interested in any kind of shit like that
on my CFTBL game, a game which is all class.
TheKorn
news:27d6bacb-df00-4294...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
> On Nov 17, 8:40�pm, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
>> skbrothers <skbroth...@comcast.net> wrote
>> innews:1f5be8c7-f3d1-4f9a-a68e-
> 236f7a...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Woman in water up to her chest (Filmed from off angle top down)
>> > She screams as she is being pulled under the water.
>> > You don't need to show a monster's hand at all. �Just her screa
> ming as
>> > she goes under.
>>
>> ...then she pops back up and inhales REALLY visibly, then screams
>> again, goes under water, pops back up again and inhales really
>> visibly, repeat a
> d
>> nauseum. �:)
>>
> Again, this is a "Creature" game, not a "torture women" game. I must
> have missed the part of the movie where a woman was being strangled,
> drowned, raped etc. Not too interested in any kind of shit like that
> on my CFTBL game, a game which is all class.
I agree 100%! I was just trying to point out how silly this would look
given the cyclic, reversing nature of how the hologram is presented in
the game.
Sonic
decals, playfields and plastics for CFTBL utilizing the Creech's
likeness, let alone playfields for MB so somehow he has the license
from Universal to do that, but not the hologram? Bullocks...someone
isn't looking into this further...if Gene doesn't have a license to do
that - sounds like he doesn't care .......... or he has the
license.....and it'll just cost some $$ for a repro holo....
brokenvette
> ldnayman <ldnay...@aol.com> wrote innews:27d6bacb-df00-4294...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 8:40 pm, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> >> skbrothers <skbroth...@comcast.net> wrote
> >> innews:1f5be8c7-f3d1-4f9a-a68e-
>
> >> > Woman in water up to her chest (Filmed from off angle top down)
> >> > She screams as she is being pulled under the water.
> >> > You don't need to show a monster's hand at all. Just her screa
> > ming as
> >> > she goes under.
>
> >> ...then she pops back up and inhales REALLY visibly, then screams
> >> again, goes under water, pops back up again and inhales really
> >> visibly, repeat a
> > d
> >> nauseum. :)
>
> > Again, this is a "Creature" game, not a "torture women" game. I must
> > have missed the part of the movie where a woman was being strangled,
> > drowned, raped etc. Not too interested in any kind of shit like that
> > on my CFTBL game, a game which is all class.
>
> I agree 100%! I was just trying to point out how silly this would look
> given the cyclic, reversing nature of how the hologram is presented in
> the game.
>
> --
> Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the
> web or on DVD?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I would save my money to buy a non fading creech holo because that
makes the game complete. I dont want any other holo. It doesnt have to
be the exact CFTBL but it does have to be the CFTBL.
my_spacies
BUT would need a manufactures back guarantee of at least 5 years
I wont be burnt twice
cch...@comcast.net
-cody
--CARGPB4
Classic Playfield Reproductions
a huddle on this. This is why we had to check the opinions of people so we
could do a litmus test of whether or not people could accept a non-Creature,
but Creech-themed hologram alternative for their pins. The response points
at "no" in the majority of cases. So there won't be any need of polls or
further exploration of screaming women, swamps, eyes in the darkness,
etc....
So the next step (if at all possible) is to check out the probability of a
hologram *with* the Creature - which was the predominant feedback. Mike and
I will talk it over and see if we are willing and able to go down that road.
Licensing, price points, etc. To even find out if the actual Universal
Creature is allowed to look different than the original pose and
still-stance with the arm reaching out... who knows. Maybe Williams won't
like the idea of the item not being an actual repro, but a whole new look.
Maybe they don't have a say since it's an original product. These are the
avenues we didn't want to go down if possible, but now we know no hologram
really has a shot unless it's got the creech in it.
Thanks everybody for all the feedback on this issue. Now we know where
things stand.
OldTimer
"Classic Playfield Reproductions" <inbox...@classicplayfields.com> wrote
in message news:JXLUk.1516$jr4.1107@edtnps82...
notmy...@mindspring.com
add to the scene.