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EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 4:42 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:40:00 -0400
Subject: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Looking for some assistance on getting a Super Spin going.It lights up
as it should.Pressing the credit button does nothing.Yes there are
credits on the game.Manually touching the start relay resets everything
as it should (score reels to 0,ball 1.player 1 lit up)I touch the
outhole switch and the ball kicker fires.I touch the trough switch and I
hear it click and register.But the playfield is dead.No flippers or pops
or lane rollovers work.The ONLY thing I can get to work on the playfield
is the hole will kick out.In my tinkering I have noticed several
clues.Closing the coin door switches does not add credits.But I do hear
the little coin unit click as I close the coin door switches.Closing the
Y relay in the back of the head will add credits.The credit unit and
player units both step up and down without any stickyness.I have cleaned
all coin unit switches,coin door switches,start relay switches,etc.Im
running out of ideas here.Yes I have also checked all fuses.Thanx in
advance for any assistance.

--
stanleystever
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Garry  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 5:24 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: Garry <rove...@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:23:37 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

There is a normally closed switch on the Game Over (Q) relay that
connects power to the playfield coils (except for the hole kicker). I
would start looking there. That probably won't cure your start button
issues though. When you manually trigger the S relay, does the credit
unit step down?

--
Garry
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 6:00 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:59:16 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Hey Garry.I fiddled around with the n/c switches in the Q relay but
nothing changed.No credits come off the reel when starting a game with
the start relay.When I power the game on I notice 3 relays lock
on...Tilt Hold,Game over and first ball relays all engage.Manually
hitting the start relay disengages all 3 and engages the hold relay.Are
those 3 relays supposed to lock on upon giving the machine power?

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 6:32 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:32:31 -0500
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5jtvi3@rrgparchive.com...

> Hey Garry.I fiddled around with the n/c switches in the Q relay but
> nothing changed.No credits come off the reel when starting a game with
> the start relay.When I power the game on I notice 3 relays lock
> on...Tilt Hold,Game over and first ball relays all engage.Manually
> hitting the start relay disengages all 3 and engages the hold relay.Are
> those 3 relays supposed to lock on upon giving the machine power?

Has this game been sitting for a long time?  If so, there are likely many
switches in need of cleaning.
Does the PLAYER UNIT in the backbox step all the way around when you start a
game?

A good place to start is the AX relay, it controls a lot of the reset
function, including power to the playfield when it resets.

- Kerry


 
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otis  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 6:42 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: otis <otis1...@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.
On Oct 2, 4:42 pm, stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Stanley,
It would probably help if you know what was suppose to happen and
when.  There is a sequence that the game reset goes through.  If
something does not reset then it won't go to the next step.  So here
are the sequence of events.  You might have cleaned some contacts but
that does not mean that there is continuity when they close.  They may
look closed to the naked eye but there is not enough tension to make
contact and provide a closed circuit.  They can be tricky.
1)  Pressing the replay button with replays up will actuate "V" relay
(replay button relay).  "V" relay locks in thru a motor 2B switch and
will actuate "S" relay.
2) Inserting a coin actuates "S" relay, also.
3) "S" relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B
switch.
4) "S" relay starts the motor running.
5) "AX" relay actuates through switches on "U" and "S" relays.  "Q"
relay will de-energize  when "AX" relay operates.
6) When "AX" relay is actuated the score units and player unit reset
sequence starts.  The 1st player score units reset to zero through the
P3 switch stack on the player unit and motor switch 1A.  When these
units reach zero the player unit steps once, the 2nd player score
units reset to zero through the P4 switch stack on the player unit
and motor switch 1A.  When these units reach zero the player unit
steps until P5B opens.  The score units and player unit are now reset.
7) When "P5A" on the player unit closes, "AX" and "BX" relays reset
through switches on motor 1A and motor 4C and switches on "U" and "R"
relays.  The reset cycle is now complete.
8) Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will
actuate "CX" relay through switches on "U" and "S"
relays and a switch on motor 1D.  The replay button circuit opens when
"CX" relay actuates.
9) Place the ball in the outhole.  The ball return switch closes and
completes the circuit to "O" relay through the normally closed
switches of zero position "Bonus" unit,  motor 1C, motor 2B, "Q" and
"AX" relays, "O" relay then locks in.  Through switches on motor 4C,
motor 1A, "BX" and "O", the ball return coil actuates kicking the ball
onto the runway.
10) The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the
trough switch which pulls in "P" relay.  "P" relay runs the motor.
Switches on "6B", "U", motor 2C, "P", "BX", and motor 1A advance the
"Player" unit the required number of steps determined by the "Player"
unit switches and "CX" relay.
11) The 3-5 Ball Adjustment changes the number of balls played per
game.  The third or fifth ball leaving the playfield will trip the
"last ball" relay "BX" through switches on "6B", "U", rivets on the
player unit disc and "O" relay.

The end....JLC


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 7:52 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:51:56 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 7:51 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Hey Kerry and JLC.Yes the game has been sitting quite a while.Yes the
player unit in the backbox does a complete circle upon startup.I did
read about that pesky AX relay and had already cleaned it but just
cleaned it again.Thanx for the startup sequence.I didnt know the credit
button actuated the V relay.I cleaned the V relay but it still doesnt
work.I will try a closer gap next.If I actuate the V relay it starts a
game abd takes a credit off the credit wheel.I closed the V relay
switches one by one and found it was the bottom one that starts the
game.Perhaps its not gapped close enough.

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 8:05 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:05:57 -0500
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5ju0ol@rrgparchive.com...

> Hey Kerry and JLC.Yes the game has been sitting quite a while.Yes the
> player unit in the backbox does a complete circle upon startup.I did
> read about that pesky AX relay and had already cleaned it but just
> cleaned it again.Thanx for the startup sequence.I didnt know the credit
> button actuated the V relay.I cleaned the V relay but it still doesnt
> work.I will try a closer gap next.If I actuate the V relay it starts a
> game abd takes a credit off the credit wheel.I closed the V relay
> switches one by one and found it was the bottom one that starts the
> game.Perhaps its not gapped close enough.

For the replay button to work when credits are on the game, check:

1. N.C. switch on CX relay, orange-white & brown-white wires
2. Zero position switch on credit unit, brown-white & green-white wires
3. N.C. switch on W (2nd chute) relay, green-white & brown wires

The rest of the switches in the circuit are working because the S relay
holds in when you actuate it manually.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 8:48 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:47:25 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 8:47 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Wow Kerry.What fantastic directions.It was the n/c W relay green-white &
brown wires.It was open.So I bent it back to a closed position and the
game now starts with the start button.But it still only gets me to the
ball in the shooter lane with no playfield scoring.I can now watch and
see after pressing the credit button the V relay acuates (but does not
lock on) then I can see the start relay actuate and then the AX relay
actuates.So im getting closer it seems.

--
stanleystever
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 9:16 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 21:15:18 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 9:15 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Here is something interesting.I can start a game with the credit button
now,but I cant push it twice to get a second player added.If I manually
actuate the CX relay it will add a second player but not deduct a
credit.

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 9:33 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:33:58 -0500
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 9:33 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5ju4kn@rrgparchive.com...

> Here is something interesting.I can start a game with the credit button
> now,but I cant push it twice to get a second player added.If I manually
> actuate the CX relay it will add a second player but not deduct a
> credit.

After the PLAYER UNIT steps around (back to the home position),  P5A switch
on the player unit, cam 5 closest to the cam, closes and resets the AX
relay.

Check:
1. P5A with yellow+black & slate+black wires
2. N.C. switch on FIRST BALL relay (U) with slate+black & yellow-blue-red
wires

The FIRST BALL relay should NOT be energized until a score is made on the
playfield.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 9:44 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 21:43:07 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Ok I was screwin around with the AX relay and I held the top switch on
the shortest stack together (red-yellow.red-yellow) and hit bumpers and
rollovers and flippers and all worked.I heard lots of chimes but no
points were scoring.I eventually blew the primary fuse with all this
testing.

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 10:20 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 21:20:51 -0500
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 10:20 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5ju5v8@rrgparchive.com...

> Ok I was screwin around with the AX relay and I held the top switch on
> the shortest stack together (red-yellow.red-yellow) and hit bumpers and
> rollovers and flippers and all worked.I heard lots of chimes but no
> points were scoring.I eventually blew the primary fuse with all this
> testing.

Just manually reset the AX relay.  It latches in both positions, just
latch/trip it into the other position.
... after you replace the fuse.

A coil must have locked on.  Watch out for that.  Check around for a hot
coil next time the fuse blows.

Advance the score reels off zero manually and make sure they all reset
correctly when you start a game.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 10:58 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 22:57:13 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 10:57 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Kerry.I checked both of those switches (p5A AND THE N/C ON THE FIRST
BALL RELAY SLATE-BL & YELLOW BLUE RED) I cleaned both switches and
madesure they were closed.All seems fine with both.

I think I blew the fuse because ive got all these relays out and I think
two were touching.I blew a second fuse while testing the AX relay.That
was my last 5A slo blo fuse so I put a 5A fast blow in and its working
fine.I moved the touching relays and its not blowing fuses now.So when I
start a game I see the AX relay engage then disengage.So I engage it and
it latches and releases and the score motor turns slightly.It wont stay
engaged.I did try advancing the score reels earlier tonight and they
reset.

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 11:30 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 22:31:31 -0500
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 11:31 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5ju9aj@rrgparchive.com...

> Kerry.I checked both of those switches (p5A AND THE N/C ON THE FIRST
> BALL RELAY SLATE-BL & YELLOW BLUE RED) I cleaned both switches and
> madesure they were closed.All seems fine with both.

> I think I blew the fuse because ive got all these relays out and I think
> two were touching.I blew a second fuse while testing the AX relay.That
> was my last 5A slo blo fuse so I put a 5A fast blow in and its working
> fine.I moved the touching relays and its not blowing fuses now.So when I
> start a game I see the AX relay engage then disengage.So I engage it and
> it latches and releases and the score motor turns slightly.It wont stay
> engaged.I did try advancing the score reels earlier tonight and they
> reset.

5A fast is safe, but won't last long running coils.

So... everything's resetting and then AX is resetting.  Does it kick a ball
out into the shooter lane then?
You shouldn't have to re-engage AX, it's job is done once it resets.

I'm a little confused by "the score motor turns slightly."  Once the SCORE
MOTOR starts it should keep running to the end of a cycle (1/3 turn) through
it's own switch 1C.

If you're still not getting power to the playfield, check TILT HOLD (H) N.O.
switch with red-white and red-black wires.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 11:40 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:38:23 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 11:38 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

I think it's gotta be in this AX relay.I was playing around with that
first switch (red-yellow & red-yellow) on the shortest switch stack on
the AX relay and if I touch them together the score motor turns and a
chime rings.I can operate flippers and pops etc while holding this
switch together.But the score motor keeps running too.No points are
being scored though.I confirmed that all score reels reset upon
startup.The first player reels reset followed by the second player reels
resetting.

--
stanleystever
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 2 2012, 11:44 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:43:42 -0400
Local: Tues, Oct 2 2012 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

The score motor turning slightly was just when I was re-engaging the AX
relay.As it released the score motor stopped.I will check that tilt hold
relay.

--
stanleystever
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 12:01 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 23:02:43 -0500
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 12:02 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5jub8m@rrgparchive.com...

> I think it's gotta be in this AX relay.I was playing around with that
> first switch (red-yellow & red-yellow) on the shortest switch stack on
> the AX relay and if I touch them together the score motor turns and a
> chime rings.I can operate flippers and pops etc while holding this
> switch together.But the score motor keeps running too.No points are
> being scored though.I confirmed that all score reels reset upon
> startup.The first player reels reset followed by the second player reels
> resetting.

The AX relay controls a lot of things during reset and then it powers the
playfield through a switch on H and Q after reset completes.  It's not
surprising that if you short some switch contacts out you can make things
happen.

Adjust AX the best you can.  Start a game and see what happens, or doesn't
happen.  Given that, a set of switches can be identified from the schematics
that control that function.  My two cents worth.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 12:02 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 00:00:47 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 12:00 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Yes still no power to the playfield.I checked the tilt hold relay.I
picked it up and it felt somewhat energized.But the game was not on
tilt.If I actuate it then the tilt light comes on.So I checked that n/o
switch and I couldnt tell with my eyes if it was open or closed.So I
gently seperated the contacts with my finger and I felt it
de-energize.The coil was warm too so it was energized.But opening them
up did not restore power to the playfield.The only thing I have done so
far to restore power to the playfield was touching those switches on the
AX relay.

--
stanleystever
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 12:40 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 00:38:53 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 12:38 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Kerry do you know the switch wire colors on the Q relay that give the
playfield power? I would like to give that a real good look.

--
stanleystever
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Garry  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 4:08 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: Garry <rove...@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 04:07:48 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 4:07 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

I can't tell you the wire colors on the Q relay because my wiring is
dirty and faded. But here is how it is on my machine:

The Q relay has two NC switches. The middle switch at the front cuts the
power to the ball return relay, and the outside (furthest from the relay
coil) switch at the back cuts power to the playfield. One of the wires
appears to be red/white. Hope this helps.

--
Garry
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 8:05 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 07:06:02 -0500
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 8:06 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"stanleystever" <juventude...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message

news:stanleystever.5jue0s@rrgparchive.com...

> Kerry do you know the switch wire colors on the Q relay that give the
> playfield power? I would like to give that a real good look.

N.C. switch on Q, red-yellow (tracer) and red & white (mottled).

The rest of the power path is:
1. N.C. switch on AX (after it resets), red-black and red-yellow wires
2. N.O. switch on H, red-white and red-black wires

You haven't mentioned anything about tilt, so make sure the game isn't
tilted.

- Kerry


 
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 11:24 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:23:20 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 11:23 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Kerry.Thanx for helping me isolate the exact switch in the AX relay that
supplies power to the playfield (as well as the other 2 switches you
listed) It ended up being that AX relay switch.It looked closed but
needed a little bending to give it a good connection.So it's almost
there.I can see the light at the end of the tunnel,I think.Haha.Ok,so
now I have power to the playfield.The flippers,bumpers,kickers etc all
work...BUT...it looks like I must have a stuck switch somewhere because
when I start a game the AA relay (Left roto target relay) keeps engaging
and disengaging and the score motor keeps running.At the beginning of
the cycling I hear a chime,then they both keep cycling and no more
chimes.So I think that is telling me there is a point scoring switch
stuck probably relating to the left roto target.It is very hard to get
at those switches as they are blocked with the roto unit.I can activate
flippers,pops,rollovers etc while all this cycling is going on.Does this
look like a left roto target switch is stuck to you? Are there any other
switches that could cause the AA relay to stay engaged?

--
stanleystever
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stanleystever  
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 More options Oct 3 2012, 11:48 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: stanleystever <juventude...@yahoo.ca>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:46:21 -0400
Local: Wed, Oct 3 2012 11:46 pm
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

I was able to see the switch behind the left roto target and it is not
even close to being closed.The playfield ''Hit'' (scores left roto
target value) is flashing as well.Im not sure what direction to look
now.

--
stanleystever
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Garry  
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 More options Oct 4 2012, 12:54 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: Garry <rove...@optusnet.com.au>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 00:52:02 -0400
Local: Thurs, Oct 4 2012 12:52 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

Stanley,

The left stand up target is wired in parallel to the left roto target
and scores the same value via the AA relay. Check that it isn't closed.

--
Garry
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Kerry Imming  
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 More options Oct 4 2012, 10:00 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: "Kerry Imming" <kcimm...@pobox.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:00:49 -0500
Local: Thurs, Oct 4 2012 10:00 am
Subject: Re: EM TECH..Gottlieb Super Spin wont start.

"Garry" <rove...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message

news:Garry.5jw9c0@rrgparchive.com...

> Stanley,

> The left stand up target is wired in parallel to the left roto target
> and scores the same value via the AA relay. Check that it isn't closed.

As Garry points out, there are two switches that energize LEFT ROTO TARGET
relay (AA)
1. N.O. left roto target switch with maroon+white wire and ?* wires
2. Make-Make switch on left target with maroon+white and ?* wires
* ? There is an error on the schematics and this wire color isn't shown.

AA runs the score motor, so fixing the switch should fix that too.

You're getting close, hang in there.

- Kerry


 
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