WMS fliptronic Flipper rebuild kits - sheesh!
PT
the new flipper kits that include a longer plunger (and sometimes
longer coil stops too). This makes the flipper travel much less than
the OEM units. Obviously this hurts game play...
Until now I was still getting the OEM spec units from Marco, but I
just went to rebuild flippers on a TA*F and found that even Marco
switched to the new style.
You can tell if you have a correct kit right away. The new kits use a
single 3/8 nut to tighten on the bat shaft. The correct kits used the
OEM style 3/8 nut and allen bolt for tightening.
I have a big box with old flipper parts from more than a dozen WMS
games. Comparing parts to parts, the conclusion is inevitable.
Without exception the new kits are wrong. The plungers are simply too
long! The kit I just opened has stops that are shorter than OEM to
boot.
Flipper travel can be kludged by bending the flipper plate, but that
is not the point. Why can't someone build a correct kit? Are we
getting Stern plungers (and stops) instead of WMS now?
John
John Wart, jr
--
http://www.myhomegameroom.com
"PT" <zeec...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1170726660.8...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Mark_in_PA
> Pinball Life has the correct stuff - for new and old!
>
> --http://www.myhomegameroom.com
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
John, can you confirm this? I was under the impression that these were
all made in the same factory and just went to different distributors.
John Wart, jr
Perhaps some distributors are trying to cheap out by only carrying 1 style
and hoping nobody notices or cares?
--
http://www.myhomegameroom.com
"Mark_in_PA" <mark_i...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170727266.0...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
martin
John, would you mind measuring and posting coil stop and shaft
lengths, please? I guess we need stud length on the stop, and pin to
end on the shaft.
CraigC
and new plungers.
the stuff i got from competitive (and whoever got their parts from
them) are the longer incorrect plungers.
on FT i even went with the old style coil stops just because it gave
it a better feel when trying to stuff all the balls on the right
flipper while jamming them in the casters club with the left.
-c
Bill Ung
wrote:
>On Feb 5, 8:57 pm, "John Wart, jr" <johnwar...@johnwartjr.com> wrote:
>> Pinball Life has the correct stuff - for new and old!
>>
>
>John, can you confirm this? I was under the impression that these were
>all made in the same factory and just went to different distributors.
I can confirm this. The "old" equipment I bought from Pinball Life
was the correct size/length. Be sure to get "old" style flipper
plunger/links and coil stops.
The older style plungers have a more tapered link on them. The newer
ones do not.
Also, the older coil stop seem to be more of a brass color (the stop
itself), whereas the newer ones are fairly dark in comparison.
If you get these proper parts, they look correct.
--
+-- Bill Ung --- <http://www.ufopinball.com/> ------------+
| HÍGH SPÉÉD: "Dispatch this is 504, suspect got away." |
| ÉÁRTHSHÁKÉR: "Ooohhh, bitchin!!" |
| WHÍTÉWÁTÉR: "Dang, lost another one!" |
| ÉLVÍRÁ: "Let's Boooogie!!! ..... Thank you, Boys!" |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Bay Area Amusements LLC (Rick)
suppliers of kits as well as putting them together, so mileage will vary.
"Mark_in_PA" <mark_i...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170727266.0...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
PT
toyboy6
going to get the wrong size replacement? How can that be?
John Wart, jr
plunger and link - so you should be OK.
--
http://www.myhomegameroom.com
"toyboy6" <scott....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170729668.0...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
PT
of the new style and one of the old style. The bags are marked with
the same part numbers... I also, have a pile of old parts in the junk
bin to compare.
The new style plungers are 2 3/16" from center-of-pin to end. The old
style are 2 1/8". That 1/8th inch is a big difference - despite
having the SAME part number. These are new parts, so there is no wear
or mushrooming. The old plungers from my junk heap are all 2 1/8"
also.
The coil stops seem to be correct comparing them to the old ones that
I have. The one that I just pulled out of the T*AF was badly
flattened, so it doesn't count.
Back in 2005 I got some kits from BAA that had the wrong plungers on
them. I swapped the plungers with some from the junk heap. I found
those same BAA plungers and measured them. They are also 2 3/16",
just like the new Marcos set. I contacted Rick about this in 2005 and
I believe he has fixed this in his kits.
John
PT
the plunger from the center of the pin to the end of the plunger.
Also, take note of the fastener style for attaching to the bat shaft
(allen wrench or not).
Most likely the parts you remove will have the allen bolt fastener and
correct plunger. If the ones you remove don't have the allen bolt,
you may already have the wrong plungers! Please let us know what you
find!
John
Okänd
new style (non-tapered) link, but I thought the plunger link was
always the same length (until these newer parts started coming out)
I have a plunger-link assembly from Marco that I purchased last year.
It has the new style link and the plunger is 2 1/8" center-of-pin to
the end, just like the plunger-link assembly using the old style
(tapered) link.
Also, some time last year I purchased some of the old style
plunger-link assemblies from Pinball Life and Marco (to compare) and
the plunger length measured 2 3/16" center-of-pin to the end. I wonder
if Pinball Life changed to the shorter plungers sometime after that.
Ron...
martin
>
> - Show quoted text -
That 1/16" is really too small to see without a ruler. So I wonder if
these supplies don't get mixed up. I'll have to go check my box.
Ron Strom
johnw...@johnwartjr.com says...
> Pinball Life has the correct stuff - for new and old!
>
>
>
>
--
Ron -- CARGPB7 -- (Change hot to ice to email)
Pinball News
News.
http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/flippers/index.html
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Martin.
martin
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's interesting - Todd's article shows that the plungers are the
same length, but says that the coil stop for Fliptronic machines is a
little longer. So do we have rogue plungers running around?
Number400
a rebuild kit for my Fire! and guess what...now that flipper has a
shorter stroke.
seymour...@excite.com
> Compare the new parts to the ones you remove. Look at the length of
> the plunger from the center of the pin to the end of the plunger.
> Also, take note of the fastener style for attaching to the bat shaft
> (allen wrench or not).
>
> Most likely the parts you remove will have the allen bolt fastener and
> correct plunger. If the ones you remove don't have the allen bolt,
> you may already have the wrong plungers! Please let us know what you
> find!
>
> John
>
John, pretty sure that Terry "makes up" the kit when the parts get to
him, ie, HE puts the plunger/link and pawl assembly together. His DO
have the single bolt on the pawl, but it's STILL the correct overall
length. Don't characterize the pawl as being your single point of
reference to identify bum kits - I for one find the single bolt much
more convenient to install vs. needing a wrench and an allen key.
Pretty sure some of the other suppliers do it the same way as the
parts are cheaper that way. It has been well documented as noted by
other posters on this thread that there are differing plunger lengths
and coil stops - not only at pinball news, but the marvin site too and
old RGP posts.
WMS changed somewhere around TZ from the old style to the new, TZ has
old style and STTNG has new, someone else said that IJ was the first
with the new style. Before I found out about the length differences I
used the new style in several of my machines and it's not detrimental
to gameplay IMO anyway, but I do use the old style exclusively now
that they are available.
It's pretty simple, really - now you know some suppliers actually know
the difference, and you can order correctly to get the right parts.
-scott CARGPB#29
PT
>him, ie, HE puts the plunger/link and pawl assembly together. His DO
>have the single bolt on the pawl, but it's STILL the correct overall
>length. Don't characterize the pawl as being your single point of
>reference to identify bum kits - I for one find the single bolt much
>more convenient to install vs. needing a wrench and an allen key.
I only pointed out the new pawl for a couple of reasons. First, the
kits that I have received with the new pawl ALL have had the long
plunger and the ones with the old pawl ALL had the correct plunger.
This doesn't mean that this will be true of all kits sold from all
vendors. As I mentioned before' the kits from Marcos all had the same
exact part numbers on the bag (no plunger p/n though), but had
different plungers.
I like the one handed tightening too. Unfortunately I have found
these new pawls to be made of more brittle metal. I've broken at
least three of them while tightening on the bat. This is the second
reason that I pointed out the new pawls.
>WMS changed somewhere around TZ from the old style to the new, TZ has
>old style and STTNG has new, someone else said that IJ was the first
>with the new style.
I think STTNG was the first with the new part number for the crank
assembly. The link seems to be the big difference. I really don't
think the length of the plunger changed at that point, but I could be
wrong. I've pulled and saved these parts from many machines that span
this area and ALL had the exact same length plunger. Unfortunately
the manuals for these games don't seem to specify a part number for
the plunger itself.
This makes things even more complicated. To me the "old style" kits
were for pre-1992; games like F*nhouse and came with different
springs, caps etc. "New Style" always meant fliptronics machines.
Now we see that Fliptronics also has an old and new style from the
factory. Throw in the new one-hand tightening pawls and incorrect
plungers and my head is swimming.
>It's pretty simple, really - now you know some suppliers actually know
>the difference, and you can order correctly to get the right parts.
Thanks. I'll start buying them from Terry, but I'll give Marco a call
today to see if he has any insight to the source of his new kits and
why they are different. For the last two years, I've always spent the
few extra dollars to buy my kits from Marcos to get the correct-length
plungers and pawls made out of better metal.
John
seymour...@excite.com
> I only pointed out the new pawl for a couple of reasons. First, the
> kits that I have received with the new pawl ALL have had the long
> plunger and the ones with the old pawl ALL had the correct plunger.
> This doesn't mean that this will be true of all kits sold from all
> vendors. As I mentioned before' the kits from Marcos all had the same
> exact part numbers on the bag (no plunger p/n though), but had
> different plungers.
>
the complete "kits" I buy the parts seperately (it's slightly
cheaper..... unless you buy the whole flipper assembly from Terry,
that's the best deal around if you want to replace everything
including the coil and the baseplate.....)
I have broken a couple of the one handed pawls also - I think the key
is that you do NOT have to tighten it as much as the other style - the
other style the end of the pawl is almost touching.
-scott CARGPB#29